Rearranging the pieces of the Middleweight Chess Board...

"THE NEW MIDDLEWEIGHT CHESSBOARD"

Well fellow forum go'ers and my fellow boxing enthusiasts...wer'e off to another fine year of middleweight boxing in 2006. Things are going to get hot in the next two to three months. Scores will be settled, hearts will be broken, records will be lost, and titles will be shuffled.

The turmoils of another sleepless insominiatic night have gotten the brain churning again and the fingers following slowly behind. In the wake of Bernard Hopkins retirement from the middleweight division by way of Jermain Taylor this writer's mind began stirring at around 11:05 p.m. and I sprang out of bed heading straight for the p.c. for what my wife calls another trip down obsession lane.

She's dead on the money.

For some reason of late...this forum has the dubious honor of being what inspires me, every day and every single night when my head either reaches or departs from the pillow.

The obsession never seems to pass and the wife never ceases to remind me of how my compu-chair is going to forever be grafted to my a**. I'm sure those with wives or lady friends now my plight. Every single forum member here has suffered the same roll of the eyes, the same huffs and puffs, the same scorn that I generally get on route to the comforts of my keyboard and flat screen monitor.

Anywho, off the wife (heh heh heh) and on to boxing.

Twice last year, rising young star, Jermain "Bad Intentions" Taylor (25 & 0 with 21 KO's) did what no man had done in over a decade...he won a 12 round unanimous decision over Bernard Hopkins subsequently breaking the "king's" clutch over the middleweight division ending Hopkins 12 year streak. Old news.

Be that as it may...the second victory over Hopkins should have cemented Taylor as the #1 middleweight king of the world so to speak, but the wins over Hopkins were questionable and lackluster leaving fans a bit befuddled & unsure of "the New Sherriff in Town". The fight being so close that all three ringside judges leaned towards Taylor by a 115-113 margin, with "The Associated Press" ringside having Taylor winning 115-114. Then you had the punchstats in which Hopkins was clearly in the lead. At the end of both "battles" with Hopkins, the sherriff appeared to be more of a deputy and this just did not sit right with the fans or media.

In the end though, Jermain did indeed walk with the titles and the belts. To Taylor's credit he did fight the best middleweight of our and of his time. To his credit again...he was able to perform a bit better than in their first fight.

Although, he still seemed as apprehensive in the late rounds as Hopkins seemed tentative in the opening rounds. Taylor did come better prepared for Hopkins, but the fans just wanted more from their new champion than he was able to give and as with the first fight Hopkins came on at around the sixth round and took Taylor's "Bad Intentions" with a grain of salt. Arguabley, from the middle rounds on Hopkins was the man that everyone wanted Taylor to be.

But in the end, Jermain retained the throne that Hopkins had owned & commanded for 20 title runs & we go into this new year with a new ruler...or do we?

As boxing fans we always question and condemn quite hastily. We always look for the next suitor...the next conqueror...nothing is every good enough for us. It's a bit shameful...but it is indeed our right to be skeptical.

Skeptical is indeed what this fan and writer will be regarding Jermain Taylor our new Middleweight Champion. After Taylor's "defeate" of Hopkins, he would then go on to spout out statements such as "I got hit alot...he was tuff...but I think I won the fight" and "I give myself a B on this peformance...I've still got a lot to learn..." at the post fight press conferences leaving many fans stuck in a perpertual state of doubt.

Forget about chessboards...the question with this kid is not a matter of knight takes pawn but whether or not to place a bet, walk away, or hold 'em or fold 'em with Jermain.

Up to this moment, Jermain Taylor has to be one confused young man, but as I said...we the fans are a fickle bunch and Taylor did not convincingly defeat our past King and there is where most of the animosity and uncertainties lie. All the promises of knocking the old man out went left the building faster than a speeding bullet...but in Taylor's defense...our previous King did not break out the big guns to defend his kingdom either.

While Hopkins and Taylor fans alike eagerly anticipated both fights, neither man truly dominated the other and neither man really exploited the other's short comings. There were few advantages gained, less ground covered, and even less explosions of raw power or aggression from previous respective performances. All in all...most casual fans considered the fights to be nothing more than a series a snore fests.

To say that both fighters gave the other too much respect is like flogging a dead horse...so let's just leave Taylor and Hopkins both now for a moment & concentrate on some other players on the board. Proffessionally, from writer's standpoint one can not be biased...so for the sake of this article not becoming biased....let's just do our best to write Hopkins out of the equation right now. Seeing that he is stepping up to 175lbs in hopes of beating Roy Jones Jr conqueror Antonio Tarver, in a last desperate move to solidify his legacy in history. Now that Bernard moves upwards, Taylor becomes the king of the board for the moment.

So folks...fair is fair, what is done is done, and we have our new Undisputed Middleweight Champion that maybe some of us are being a bit to critical towards.

But in the middleweight division...the move of one peice is naturally followed by another and in comes the next pawn, knight, or would be king trying to gain the commanding spot.
Enter Ronald "Winky" Wright...defensive master, technical tactician, humiliator of the great Tito Trinidad, two time dispatcher of the vastly skilled, highly regarded Sugar Shane Mosley, and conqueror of durable Sam "King" Soliman whom was just handily removed from a strong nineteen and running win streak.

Within a few weeks time of besting and retiring Felix "Tito" Trinidad, the very mention of Winky's name began thickening the plot surrounding the Hopkins and Taylor rematch. Wisely Taylor jumped in for the Hopkins rematch instead of allowing Hopkins the choice of opting out for Wright or Sturm. The money and history was made. Taylor defeated Hopkins again...keeping the titles that he had just recently won...again...and now we have what we will have.

Wright during the meantime went on to face Sam Soliman and we all know how that ended. After the defeat of the IBF's #1 man Sam Soliman, the fans have spoken...no they have practically began screaming that Taylor must face Winky Wright and he must defeat him soundly to gain any honor and glory of the belts that he now wears around his waist. It almost seems unfair, that Taylor should be...lifted up and justly glorified...but at the moment he is not championship material in many analyst's and commentator's minds.

Continued below...

Defeating Wright would surely give Taylor's status a "big UP" with the fans. Also, he would rightfully be recognized as the ruler of the throne that he so desperately desires to reign supreme over, but beating Wright may prove more like climbing a mountain than sitting in the big chair.

For years there has been no one out there to succesfully break down Wright's defense, nor have they been able to withstand his piston like jab and amazing accuracy...more importantly, no one has been able to match his experience and craftiness within the square circle let alone even chip his rock hard chin. To Taylor's advantage, he has size and he most definently has the power over Wright...but many men thought the same of Felix Trinidad. As proven on May 14th, 2005...power and size certainly isn't the key to unlock any of the mysteries surrounding Wright...astoundingly...nothing at all seems to solve Wright's game plan. No man is unbeatable, but one begins to wonder what it takes to get through the new and improved Ronald "Winky" Wright. Harry Simon and Julio Cesar Vasquez found a way to get to Wright, but that was then and this is not the Wright of then...this is the Wright of now.

This writer refusing to factor in Fernando Vargas's win over Wright, breaks the promise made above regarding the ethics of a writer, but consider them broken as that fight was a bit to close for the decision's outcome and the liking of fans world wide...even the commentators were bothered by that decision. Anyways, a loss is a loss and in a 50 fight career...3 losses is nothing to cry over.

Is the young upstart Jermian Taylor worthy of the mantle that he was bestowed or is Ronald "Winky" Wright the man to be the undisputed champion of 160lbs? In this writer's heart...the answer is YES to both questions...but...alas...there can't be two kings...no matter how badly the people want to keep their royalty...only one man can fit in the throne.

With the fight looming on the horizon, contracts already inked, and Wright set in stone as Taylor's mandate...we the fans will have our answer come June the 17th, 2006 in the form of one of the most anticipated middleweight showdowns of the past two years.

Now if that's not enough to wet your appetite then all that need be is to factor in Germany's Golden Boy Adnan Catic...better known as Felix Sturm. A compelling figure himself, Sturm has risen up through the middleweight division like a quiet storm for the past three to four years. A name that was rarely spoken over coastal waters, Sturm made a name for himself after controversially losing a 12 round decision to Oscar De La Hoya back in 2004. Points can be argued back and forth regarding Oscar being outclassed...the performance is more frowned upon regarding Oscar's weight and lack of preperation instead of smiling on the acheivement of Sturm.

Sturm, in this writer's opinion, put on quite a show. He gave Oscar one of the tuffest fights of his career and tactically matched him down the stretch in power and abilities. Hardly anyone credits Sturm's "loss" over Oscar...but on the flip side...many writer's and fans did take notice and fell immediately in love with Sturm's workrate, his jab, and his ability take and block the majority of De la Hoya's assault. To stand toe to toe with and control such a worthy opponent as Oscar speaks leaps and bounds of one's abilities.

Since the loss to Oscar, Sturm went on to win his next five fights in a row...two of those he won by KO before the 5th round. He defeated hard hitter Jorge Sendra over a twelve round stretch with an injured hand. After coming off of the injured list, Sturm conquered hard hitting Samoan power puncher Maselino Masoe to become the WBA's Middleweight Champion.

Sturm now has the prestige in his country of being a champion once again. Good for him.

Again...to be fair and open minded though...saying that Sturm is going to dominate the division is as improbable as saying that Taylor will...but if anyone can...you would have to lean towards Felix, his defense, power, and brilliant work rate.

Just as soon as one is set on the would be kings...another pawn makes a move on the board. That pawn is Arthur Abraham, argueably...he could be considered a knight or possibley even King. Abraham is the fastest riser of the division and the most active. Like Sturm in the past, Abraham fights as often as possible. After his pro debut in 2003 he fought five times, in 2004 he fought nine times, in 2005 he fought five times, and only once thus far for 2006...each time stepping up the opposition and out of the twenty men that he has fought...he's stopped seventeen of them. Not bad for a prospect that has begun fighting the tuffest in the 160 division.

The greatest accomplishments so far have been his beating of Howard Eastman and his knockout of Kingsley Ikeke. He controls the WBA's Inter-Continental title and he also holds the IBF's strap. How long he can hold them fighting the line up that his team has arranged for him will remain the question. Next up the fighting Armanien sharpens another tooth in his mouth as he takes on heavy handed Kofi Jantuah this month. After that...provided that he wins against Jantuah...he will then match strength for strength against another prospect by the name of Edison Miranda. The kid is definently going for the cream of the crop. Royalty awaits...but can he maintain the pace that he has been steadily pushing his body to keep.

Speaking of Edison Miranda...he has followed in the footsteps of Jermain Taylor...more or less, so to speak. He did what no other man had ever done in 40 fights...he not only defeated a durable veteran war horse in Howard Eastman...he knocked him out! No small feat for a prospect. But as exciting as Miranda is...he's got a lot of question marks hanging over his head, along with a very penetrable defense.

The fight against Abraham will answer most...if not all questions of this future hopeful.

Other pieces of the board on the back burner are Kelly Pavlik, Chad Dawson, Sebastian Sylvester, Khoren Gevor, Sechew Powell, & Giovanni Lorenzo.

That's one hell of an exciting set of pawns & knights just waiting to become king of the ring.

Knocking just one key piece off the board would push all of the pawns into place...thus ensuring better matchups and also enticing a large amount of fans back to the little square box that holds all of the magic of the square circle.

It'll be checkmate for boxing fans around the globe.

Sorry boyo's...that was intended for the front page...but I figured we'd do a bit better discussing it here...if anyone has any thoughts...by all means...let's chat it out.

Who you bankin on for the 160 braggin rights?

I sooooo owe you a cc for that analysis,that was such an interesting read!!!!Coooollll!Also,I have to admit,I was not a fan of the Middleweight divisions but when you kept talking about them(your fave division right?)I became intrigued and you are indeed correct,it is a great division,just wish B-Hop was still around :'(

Ok,I have only seen a few fights of Abraham and Sturm but both look very impressive yet neither looks to have the tools in my humble opinion to dismantle the main man in this division(for me) and the P4P number 1,Winky Wright.I just cannot see past the guy and although I have become more attached to Taylor as of late,and he DID dethrone the champ and jumped straight into Winky,I just don't see anyone busting Winky's guard!!!!

The thing about this division is as there are sooo many dangerous piece,we could see sooo many surprises and we may even have everyone beating everyone and no one leader in the division!!!

1 Q:How do you guys think a young prime B-Hop would have fared against these cats,you know,the Abrahams,Sturms etc? I would love to see him fight them now,because as hard as it is to believe,there are many critics of B-Hop's who ask who he has fought!

I've been flip flopping back and forwath between the 2 but like any sensable person you have to think Winky. Taylors just way too green for what Wright brings - I've called him 1 dimensional I don't know how many times but you have to come to the conclusion, this guys a machine who doesn't lose focus. The thing that really sealed the deal for ol Winky is that his defense completely neutralized Trinidad's power. So Jermaine better have something more planned than just overpowering him. I really don't see Taylor being able to adapt but I may be wrong. I hope I'm wrong as he's one of the future stars in boxing (would love to see him move up in weight), but it is what it is.

Very good article and analysis Wacko. :coolclick:

Unfortunately I don't think the fight will prove worthy of your late night marathon stint in front of the computer compiling it all. In fact I would hazard that this article took you more effort than we are likely to see exerted in the Taylor Wright fight.

To be honest of all the major divisions the 160 lb division excites me the least. I'm 95% certain that Taylor will beat Wright in a dreary 115-113 UD. Wright will say he was robbed, Taylor will he say he got a fair and deserved victory and we will probably have to endure a rematch in November.

Of the others no-one excites me. Sturm lost to an out of shape terrible Oscar. Against Taylor Sturm will be badly exposed. Arthur Abraham can punch but he's slow as hell and hardly fun to watch.

Chad Dawson you mention has now moved up to crusier weight for the immediate future and I doubt he will ever get back down to 160.

In fact the 160 division is so lacking in talent that cream puff Mora will probably get a title fight within a year or so.

I hate to be so negative, but I just can't see any decent fights in the middleweight division for the forseeable future.

Bilbo,don't you like guys like Abraham etc, I just see soooo many potential explosve matches and also,I am quite looking forward to Winky-Taylor and before you ask,yep,I did like the first Hopkins Taylor fight alot!

[quote=The Game ]
I sooooo owe you a cc for that analysis,that was such an interesting read!!!!Coooollll!Also,I have to admit,I was not a fan of the Middleweight divisions but when you kept talking about them(your fave division right?)I became intrigued and you are indeed correct,it is a great division,just wish B-Hop was still around :'(

Ok,I have only seen a few fights of Abraham and Sturm but both look very impressive yet neither looks to have the tools in my humble opinion to dismantle the main man in this division(for me) and the P4P number 1,Winky Wright.I just cannot see past the guy and although I have become more attached to Taylor as of late,and he DID dethrone the champ and jumped straight into Winky,I just don't see anyone busting Winky's guard!!!!

The thing about this division is as there are sooo many dangerous piece,we could see sooo many surprises and we may even have everyone beating everyone and no one leader in the division!!!

1 Q:How do you guys think a young prime B-Hop would have fared against these cats,you know,the Abrahams,Sturms etc? I would love to see him fight them now,because as hard as it is to believe,there are many critics of B-Hop's who ask who he has fought!
[/quote/]
IMO prime Hop beats all these guys.IMO prime Hop KOs Taylor.Hops style changed a lot through the years and alot of people only know the old version of Hop which is still pretty good.In his prime he was ruthless but as he got older he got more cautious and he started to lose a little speed and power. I will go to the death saying that Taylor didn't beat Hop.Hop beat himself. He got too comfortable and forgot that he couldn't just cruise in a fight because the powers that be wouldn't let him win like that. Hop had a lot of enemies in boxing but they couldn't screw him as long as he kept winning convincingly but I knew the day that he had a close fight that they would screw him. Do you think that first decision would have went against a De La Hoya or Trinidad? I don't.

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Originally Posted by The Game

Bilbo,don't you like guys like Abraham etc, I just see soooo many potential explosve matches and also,I am quite looking forward to Winky-Taylor and before you ask,yep,I did like the first Hopkins Taylor fight alot!

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I'll be honest the only Abraham fight I've seen was against Eastman and I thought he looked terrible. Given that he was fighting probably the most exciting fighter after Audley Harrison in Eastman maybe I'm being a little harsh. But he certainly didn't excite me with that show.

Although I would have to say it is hard to look good when your fighting Eastman.

But compare 160 with 130, 135, 140, 147, 154 and even the heavies it's comes off pretty bad. At least all of the other divisions have some intrigue but with the middle weights its just Taylor and Wright, and seeing as this fight is almost certain not to be a classic I'm just not interested.

Don't get me wrong I'll watch the fight but I'm not expecting anything more than Taylor Hopkins 3.

Good points by both of you I guess! and Bilbo of course those divisions are more exciting but I still think think this one is pretty good and Mr.Manick,I agree,Hopkins modified his style and I think that allowed him to have such longeivety,don't you think??

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Originally Posted by The Game

Good points by both of you I guess! and Bilbo of course those divisions are more exciting but I still think think this one is pretty good and Mr.Manick,I agree,Hopkins modified his style and I think that allowed him to have such longeivety,don't you think??

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Yeah for me the trouble has been the best middleweights in recent years, namely Hopkins and Wright have not been exciting fighters to watch. B-Hop has always had a very mechanical style that is defensively brilliant but not exciting and Wright maybe even more so.

I can appreciate that those with better boxing knowledge than myself or real ring experience (of which I have none whatsoever) will see things in Wright's and Hopkins' styles that I as a purely armchair fan will miss.

But I much prefer fights where there is real action, measured in terms of punches landed, knockdowns and blood, rather than feints, blocks and jabs.

You know...it all just depends...I think that most people base alot on the fact of what they have heard more so than what they have seen...thus being the case with Sturm & Abraham.

Both are great fighters, both knock opponants out, but both are heard more often than seen...& actually...it's only opinions & spotty info at best that is heard.

Take a gander...purchase some fights or download them...both men are superb fighters.

As far as the middleweight division being lax in talent...I just have to disagree.

Taylor is one of the more talented fighters of the up & coming group of hopefuls...even though I do see a lot of flaws in the kid...but he is impressive none the less. Same goes for my feelings on Sturm & Abraham & Pavlik.

Everyone has their likes & dislikes...nothing wrong in disagreeing...but to form a good arguement...one often has to see both sides of the story...

I like knockouts, blood, & all that...but it's at 160 lbs too...you just gotta look for it.

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Originally Posted by The Game

I sooooo owe you a cc for that analysis,that was such an interesting read!!!!Coooollll!Also,I have to admit,I was not a fan of the Middleweight divisions but when you kept talking about them(your fave division right?)I became intrigued and you are indeed correct,it is a great division,just wish B-Hop was still around :'(

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Same here...I owe ya in another 24. Yep...160's always been my favorites. Hagler to Hopkins & all the standouts in between. It's a good division.

Honestly...I'm glad B's moving on...it's time for a new shot in the arm...aaaaaah fwock...that aint true...I miss Hopkins too.

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Originally Posted by The Game

Ok,I have only seen a few fights of Abraham and Sturm but both look very impressive yet neither looks to have the tools in my humble opinion to dismantle the main man in this division(for me) and the P4P number 1,Winky Wright.I just cannot see past the guy and although I have become more attached to Taylor as of late,and he DID dethrone the champ and jumped straight into Winky,I just don't see anyone busting Winky's guard!!!!

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I disagree with everyone that says Wright Taylor is going to be a slow fight. I think it's gonna be a goody & drama filled. Hopkins just made Taylor look bad...Hopkins makes anyone look bad. Taylor was a bit scared...& I dont think that he will be afraid of Wright...but that dont mean he won't show him too much respect.

I don't see Taylor getting past the Wright that fought Tito. Wright better come 100% though...& I think that he will.

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Originally Posted by The Game

The thing about this division is as there are sooo many dangerous piece,we could see sooo many surprises and we may even have everyone beating everyone and no one leader in the division!!!

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There are a butt load of dangerous players out there. They're all tacticians & they can crack. Sneaky bastards. You never know what's coming next...main reason I have always liked the division.

There are several "leaders" but they all gotta match each other eventually.

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Originally Posted by The Game

1 Q:How do you guys think a young prime B-Hop would have fared against these cats,you know,the Abrahams,Sturms etc? I would love to see him fight them now,because as hard as it is to believe,there are many critics of B-Hop's who ask who he has fought!

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Early B-hop (the Terror) would have given them all a messy fight followed by a knockout. Hopkins in the start of his pro debut was already long in the tooth. Prime B-Hop (& it's so hard to judge his prime) would have outboxed Abraham & IWO had a hard night with Sturm.

Tacticians that can crack.Sneaky bastards!!! That description is awesome and pretty true!! The only thing I keep forgetting is the size advantage for Taylor,has Winky tasted that power before?I mean true 160 power,remember Tito was not a true 154 pounder,so that may not have any relevance.

All of you guy's have great opinions, I disagree with some more than others. I love Winky Wright's defense, he reminds me so much of a bigger stronger Pernell Whitaker. People believe that after his performance vs Trinidad that nobody can hit him, I disagree. We all know that Trinidad was puzzled by technical fighters (De La Hoya, Hopkins, Wright). And for some reason when he get's puzzled he refuses to throw punches, most boxers will throw everything they have when desperation set's in but not Tito. That leads me to the point the Jermain Taylor does not have problems with technical fighters because he is one himself. I think he get's a raw deal with his matches against Hopkins, Hopkins was labeled P4P #1 in the world on everybody's list before the fight and after Taylor's victory they claimed controversy and also that Bernard had gotten old. In the rematch he repeated the same result yet people claimed that he was not impressive in the match. Now let me get this right, you just defeat the #1 boxer on the planet back to back and people claim you were not impressive. That sounds like lunacy to me because the only thing that saved Bernard Hopkins in those fights was fatigue from Taylor who slowed down in both fights. So it was a lose, lose situation for Taylor. As long as Taylor comes into the fight with better stamina I see him winning a UD over Wright. He is bigger, stronger, and younger. If Taylor wins the critics will once again say that Winky Wright was slowing down because of his age and he shoulden't of moved up.Blahblahblah. These two fighters can make each other great by giving us a great trilogy, I hope that happens, but if Taylor wins this fight you guy's will have to give him credit for beating back to back P4P#1's. Please no more excuses if your on the P4P list and you lose except the lost do not bring age into it unless you have showed signs of slowing down vs other opponents. Wright has an impressive defensive resume (Mosley 2, Vargas, Trinidad) but he will face a bigger fighter in Taylor.

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Originally Posted by The Game

Tacticians that can crack.Sneaky bastards!!! That description is awesome and pretty true!! The only thing I keep forgetting is the size advantage for Taylor,has Winky tasted that power before?I mean true 160 power,remember Tito was not a true 154 pounder,so that may not have any relevance.

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True.

Let me say this...many people have a feild day with my opinion on Taylor.

I like Taylor...he's skilled & he's got a shot at leading the division...before the Hopkins matches materialized...I was sure that he would...but he's green as fwock.

If he doesn't knock you out...he starts getting twitchy & falls apart...or atleast he did with Hopkins...but that's just one man & maybe it'll be different against Wright.

I want Wright to win...because in the end Wright is my favorite...but for the better state of 160...it'd be for the good if Taylor won.

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Originally Posted by gbrandon

All of you guy's have great opinions, I disagree with some more than others. I love Winky Wright's defense, he reminds me so much of a bigger stronger Pernell Whitaker. People believe that after his performance vs Trinidad that nobody can hit him, I disagree. We all know that Trinidad was puzzled by technical fighters (De La Hoya, Hopkins, Wright). And for some reason when he get's puzzled he refuses to throw punches, most boxers will throw everything they have when desperation set's in but not Tito. That leads me to the point the Jermain Taylor does not have problems with technical fighters because he is one himself. I think he get's a raw deal with his matches against Hopkins, Hopkins was labeled P4P #1 in the world on everybody's list before the fight and after Taylor's victory they claimed controversy and also that Bernard had gotten old. In the rematch he repeated the same result yet people claimed that he was not impressive in the match. Now let me get this right, you just defeat the #1 boxer on the planet back to back and people claim you were not impressive. That sounds like lunacy to me because the only thing that saved Bernard Hopkins in those fights was fatigue from Taylor who slowed down in both fights. So it was a lose, lose situation for Taylor. As long as Taylor comes into the fight with better stamina I see him winning a UD over Wright. He is bigger, stronger, and younger. If Taylor wins the critics will once again say that Winky Wright was slowing down because of his age and he shoulden't of moved up.Blahblahblah. These two fighters can make each other great by giving us a great trilogy, I hope that happens, but if Taylor wins this fight you guy's will have to give him credit for beating back to back P4P#1's. Please no more excuses if your on the P4P list and you lose except the lost do not bring age into it unless you have showed signs of slowing down vs other opponents. Wright has an impressive defensive resume (Mosley 2, Vargas, Trinidad) but he will face a bigger fighter in Taylor.

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Welcome to the forum. Have the Obligatory Wacko Welcome Wagon :coolclick:

Nothing wrong with disagreeing....that being said...I gotta disagree.

Fatique didnt have shat to do with Taylor's first shot with Hopkins...HOpkins took over from around 8-9 & pretty much did what he usually does.

Again...I just think that Jermain was too green to get in with Hopkins...he mentally fell apart in the 10th & Hopkins had him on queer street....in the end...it's over & done with...& Taylor does have a shot at running the show...but he's gotta get past Wright...that might be harder than getting past Hopkins.

No matter what the outcome, I wanna see the winner of this one move up and fight Calzaghe

Personally I think Taylor would be overwhelmed
Wright would be better suited to handle someone like Joe - either way I wanna see it

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Originally Posted by raleights

No matter what the outcome, I wanna see the winner of this one move up and fight Calzaghe

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Not me. I want to see the winner run 160.

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Originally Posted by raleights

Personally I think Taylor would be overwhelmed
Wright would be better suited to handle someone like Joe - either way I wanna see it

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Sorry boyo's...that was intended for the front page...but I figured we'd do a bit better discussing it here...if anyone has any thoughts...by all means...let's chat it out.

Who you bankin on for the 160 braggin rights?

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Great article. Puts the middleweight picture in perfect perspective.

Umm... at this point I will never put my money on a fighter who is going against Winky. I choose Winky to be king.

And that part where you said something like, "if that isn't enough to wet your appetite", I read, "If that isn't enough to wet your panties" (thinking along the lines that you normally think) hahaha. Forgot that this was intended for the front page though. ;D

Great article, and I hope Winky becomes king, because he definitely deserves the status and the pay days.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by The Game

Tacticians that can crack.Sneaky bastards!!! That description is awesome and pretty true!! The only thing I keep forgetting is the size advantage for Taylor,has Winky tasted that power before?I mean true 160 power,remember Tito was not a true 154 pounder,so that may not have any relevance.

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True.

Let me say this...many people have a feild day with my opinion on Taylor.

I like Taylor...he's skilled & he's got a shot at leading the division...before the Hopkins matches materialized...I was sure that he would...but he's green as fwock.

If he doesn't knock you out...he starts getting twitchy & falls apart...or atleast he did with Hopkins...but that's just one man & maybe it'll be different against Wright.

I want Wright to win...because in the end Wright is my favorite...but for the better state of 160...it'd be for the good if Taylor won.

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Interesting but I don't see it like that,even if JT loses,he can still be around,I plain out want Winky to win because I love the guy's style and IF he does win,he will be the undisputed P4P number 1 and IF JT wins,definitely top 5 P4P,don't you think? What do you mean by"for the better state"?

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Originally Posted by YounGun

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Sorry boyo's...that was intended for the front page...but I figured we'd do a bit better discussing it here...if anyone has any thoughts...by all means...let's chat it out.

Who you bankin on for the 160 braggin rights?

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Great article. Puts the middleweight picture in perfect perspective.

Umm... at this point I will never put my money on a fighter who is going against Winky. I choose Winky to be king.

And that part where you said something like, "if that isn't enough to wet your appetite", I read, "If that isn't enough to wet your panties" (thinking along the lines that you normally think) hahaha. Forgot that this was intended for the front page though. ;D

Great article, and I hope Winky becomes king, because he definitely deserves the status and the pay days.

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Heh heh heh.

Exactly why that one couldn't go to the front page I am sure...I just used me better judgement & brought it here...I'm sure my wife wouldn't dig on being low rated over the net on the front page of this site either...then again...when has that ever stopped me. ;D

Heh heh heh.

Notice that I did type that...& not spoke it aloud. ;D

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Originally Posted by The Game

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by The Game

Tacticians that can crack.Sneaky bastards!!! That description is awesome and pretty true!! The only thing I keep forgetting is the size advantage for Taylor,has Winky tasted that power before?I mean true 160 power,remember Tito was not a true 154 pounder,so that may not have any relevance.

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True.

Let me say this...many people have a feild day with my opinion on Taylor.

I like Taylor...he's skilled & he's got a shot at leading the division...before the Hopkins matches materialized...I was sure that he would...but he's green as fwock.

If he doesn't knock you out...he starts getting twitchy & falls apart...or atleast he did with Hopkins...but that's just one man & maybe it'll be different against Wright.

I want Wright to win...because in the end Wright is my favorite...but for the better state of 160...it'd be for the good if Taylor won.

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Interesting but I don't see it like that,even if JT loses,he can still be around,I plain out want Winky to win because I love the guy's style and IF he does win,he will be the undisputed P4P number 1 and IF JT wins,definitely top 5 P4P,don't you think? What do you mean by"for the better state"?

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Because I think that Wright will bail soon. Wright's in it to make a retirement fund & kick it to the curb...he's been here a looooooooooooooong timey time!

What can Jermaine do to get past Winky's defense and jab?

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Originally Posted by raleights

What can Jermaine do to get past Winky's defense and jab?

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He needs to pretty go defense to defense & jab to jab.

Once he sets up his jab...if he can set up his jab...I think that he can get through Winky's guard...but Winky aint the one trick Pony that most think he is.

This is gonna be a hard fight for Taylor IWO.

If you saw Wright vs Vargas it's obvious that Winky can bang & take shots. Winky hooks off of his jab to the body right after he drops his guard. He was ruffin Vargas up all night long with a left hook, uppercut, & right hand combination.

Vargas just couldnt get by it.

There again...Taylors a lot bigger than Vargas & cuts a more opposing figure...still...I got faith in me boy.

If Wright works his defense correctly...it's gonna play out pretty similar to what Hopkins was doing when he kept catching Taylor with that right all night in their first fight...I got high hopes that this is going to be a goody.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by raleights

What can Jermaine do to get past Winky's defense and jab?

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He needs to pretty go defense to defense & jab to jab.

Once he sets up his jab...if he can set up his jab...I think that he can get through Winky's guard...but Winky aint the one trick Pony that most think he is.

This is gonna be a hard fight for Taylor IWO.

If you saw Wright vs Vargas it's obvious that Winky can bang & take shots. Winky hooks off of his jab to the body right after he drops his guard. He was ruffin Vargas up all night long with a left hook, uppercut, & right hand combination.

Vargas just couldnt get by it.

There again...Taylors a lot bigger than Vargas & cuts a more opposing figure...still...I got faith in me boy.

If Wright works his defense correctly...it's gonna play out pretty similar to what Hopkins was doing when he kept catching Taylor with that right all night in their first fight...I got high hopes that this is going to be a goody.

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I agree 100% :) but another thing I see is that I think taylor will have alot of problems with wrights southpaw stance/style. He could barely hit a 40 year old righty so i think he'll have a lot of problems tryin to hit winky. Taylors got to learn to straighten out his punches because if he comes with that same b.s combo of jab,jab,overhand right against wright he will lose bad.Thats why he couldn't hit Hop cause he was telegraphing all his punches. And he'll have to bring more than his jab because now that i've seen him try to use it against a good fighting I don't think its all that especially compared to wrights. The only way I see taylor winning is if he is just to strong winky. I don't see him outboxing him.

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Originally Posted by MRMANICK

I agree 100% :) but another thing I see is that I think taylor will have alot of problems with wrights southpaw stance/style. He could barely hit a 40 year old righty so i think he'll have a lot of problems tryin to hit winky. Taylors got to learn to straighten out his punches because if he comes with that same b.s combo of jab,jab,overhand right against wright he will lose bad.Thats why he couldn't hit Hop cause he was telegraphing all his punches. And he'll have to bring more than his jab because now that i've seen him try to use it against a good fighting I don't think its all that especially compared to wrights. The only way I see taylor winning is if he is just to strong winky. I don't see him outboxing him.

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Very true.

I think that he's gonna be strong...but he sure aint gonna be able to outbox Wright...Wright's got a lot more tricks up his sleeve than Taylor does & Taylor (as you said) had major issues with boxing the work horse.

If Taylor beats Wright convincingly, he won't lose for awhile. If Wright wins, there will be a rematch.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

If Taylor beats Wright convincingly, he won't lose for awhile. If Wright wins, there will be a rematch.

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I'll agree with that.

Thought I'd bring this back due to the fact that the board is getting a few shifts & shuffles over the next month or so & also...respect to Hopkins as he was the main piece of the board...

That being said...here's what's coming up over the course of the next few months:

Wright vs Taylor (http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=003600)
Sturm vs Castillejo (http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=031252)
Abraham vs Miranda (http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=208432)

With or without Hopkins in the picture...160lbs is what get's the blood boiling for the Wacko one.

You have your king already and he wont be dethroned. Taylor over Winky by KO, outboxing him and overpowering him. Trust me that 40 year old righty was a lot harder to hit than winky will be. I cant see why people dont see that hopkins is a lot harder to hit than wink. It's his footwork footwork footwork, and that ducking he does would frustrate anybody. Winky is much more stationary.

:coolclick: for a very interesting post, mr wacko...

i can't wait for this weekends fight, im not expecting any fireworks but its going to be nothing less than riveting nonetheless....

im picking winky by decision, but taylor should not be underestimated....

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Originally Posted by BigLuke

You have your king already and he wont be dethroned. Taylor over Winky by KO, outboxing him and overpowering him. Trust me that 40 year old righty was a lot harder to hit than winky will be. I cant see why people dont see that hopkins is a lot harder to hit than wink. It's his footwork footwork footwork, and that ducking he does would frustrate anybody. Winky is much more stationary.

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I can live with Wright losing to Taylor...the problem is...you won't be able to live with Taylor losing to Wright...hell...you couldn't even deal with the fact that Taylor got dumstruck in the first fight with Hopkins.

Look for a lot of stuttering to come from Taylor after he get's his ass handed to him. ;) ;D

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Originally Posted by miles

:coolclick: for a very interesting post, mr wacko...

i can't wait for this weekends fight, im not expecting any fireworks but its going to be nothing less than riveting nonetheless....

im picking winky by decision, but taylor should not be underestimated....

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:coolclick: right back miles.

This should prove to be a great fight IWO.

I think that everyone is going to be in for a bit of a surprise one way or another. Win, lose, or draw this will be both fighters finest hours.

Taylor has to have come away with a bit of knowledge from the Hopkins duo...but Wright is a whole different animal than the Philly Terror.