CHENEY PISSES OFF THE KREMLIN

>:mad

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060505/...e_eu/russia_us

MOSCOW - Russian media on Friday described Vice President Dick Cheney's harsh criticism of Russia and President Vladimir Putin as the start of a new Cold War.

Cheney's words Thursday at a conference in Lithuania drew a comparison to Winston Churchill's famed "Iron Curtain" speech and reflected the deepening distrust between Washington and a newly assertive Kremlin.

The official Russian response to Cheney's speech has been cautious. But angry reaction from politicians and pundits allied with the Kremlin reflects a chill between two presidents who seemed to hit it off early in their relationship.

In his speech, Cheney accused Russia of cracking down on religious and political rights and of using its energy reserves as "tools of intimidation or blackmail."

Opponents of reform in Russia, the vice president said, "are seeking to reverse the gains of the last decade" after the 1991 collapse of the Soviet empire.

There was no public reaction from Putin or the government.

But the prominent business daily Kommersant said Cheney's comments marked "the beginning of a second Cold War" and harked back to Churchill's speech condemning Soviet expansionism in Eastern Europe with the "Iron Curtain" label that defined the East-West divide for decades.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov refrained from criticizing Cheney but condemned the meeting in the Lithuanian capital, Vilnius, which brought together the pro-Western leaders of former Soviet republics on the Baltic and Black seas.

"Over the past years, many forums have been created that reflect the desire of the respective states ... to pool their efforts to achieve common benefits," Lavrov said. "But there are forums that create an impression ... that they are convened ... for the sake of uniting against someone."

Cheney's criticism — some of Washington's toughest language about Russia — came two months before President Bush is to join Putin in St. Petersburg for a summit of the Group of Eight major industrial powers.

"The speech effectively eliminates the vestiges of strategic partnership between Russia and the United States. And if U.S. President George W. Bush confirms the stance, the idea can be buried," said pro-Kremlin political analyst Gleb Pavlovsky, the Interfax news agency reported.

Many Russian commentators said the venue for Cheney's speech — Lithuania, a nation struggling to recover from a half-century of Soviet domination — has made the blow even more painful for the Kremlin.

"By attending the forum, the United States has sent a message to Russia and those countries: We aren't leaving, we consider the region part of our sphere of interests," Liliya Shevtsova of the Carnegie Endowment's Moscow office said in an interview.

"In a situation when Russia is trying to reclaim the role of a regional and global superpower such a message has drawn a strong concern in Moscow," Shevtsova said.

Moscow complains that the United States and other Western countries are encroaching on its traditional sphere of influence, while the West accuses the Kremlin of bullying its neighbors, using energy as a weapon.

Russia's state-controlled natural gas monopoly, Gazprom, has sharply increased prices for gas supplies to Ukraine, Georgia and other Westward-looking ex-Soviet nations in what is seen in the West as a political move.

A bitter price dispute with Ukraine led to a brief halt of Russian gas supplies to Western Europe. Gazprom's strong-arming of Ukraine combined with its push for a stake in gas distribution networks in Western European nations have encouraged fears of Russian domination and prompted the European Union to rethink its reliance on energy imports from Russia.

The gas dispute with Ukraine, Putin's invitation to Moscow for the Palestinian militant group Hamas and a tough stance against sanctions on Iran all highlighted a newly assertive Kremlin course based on Russia's growing energy power.

"Huge windfall revenues have encouraged a sense of power, a feeling that Russia can do what it wants and ignore others," said Fyodor Lukyanov, the editor of Russia in Global Affairs magazine. "Russia feels that it has become strong enough to act without taking into account the positions of the United States and the European Union."

Lukyanov and other analysts predicted that escalating tensions could tarnish the St. Petersburg summit, which the Kremlin touted as a showcase of its growing global influence.

Another dispute between Moscow and Washington underscores the new tensions — recalling a time when the nations squabbled over diplomatic niceties.

Moscow has dismissed a U.S. request to waive diplomatic immunity for a Russian diplomat who allegedly hit a New York City police officer last month while driving drunk and recalled him instead.

In a statement Thursday, the Foreign Ministry warned against stirring up an "unnecessary uproar" over the incident and said that U.S. diplomats in Moscow have committed 25 traffic violations in the past two years.

IF RUSSIA WANTS TO BE COMMUNIST SO F****** BE IT, WHO THE F*** IS CHENEY TO BE DICTATOR OF THE WORLD AND DECLARE RUSSIA CANT BE COMMUNIST >:mad >:mad >:mad

F****** S*** >:mad


THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS SO DAMN IMPRESSIONABLE THEY BELIEVE THAT RUSSIA OIS A THREAT TO US!!!

THE USSR WAS ALLWAYS DOWN WITH THE US, THE COLD WAR WAS A F****** POLITICAL CHARADE CREATED BY THE US IN ORDER TO GLORIFY ITS LEADERS, SCARE THE PUBLIC, AND EMPOWER ITSELF


THE US WILL PROVOKE LARGER COUNTRIES INTO HOSTILITY JUST TO GET THE PEOPLE IN A STATE OF FEAR >:mad


F*** THAT S***

IT - ПЛОХО ТОЛЬКО СЛАБЫЕ ДУРАКИ СТУДЕНТА КОЛЛЕДЖА, ПРИСОЕДИНИТСЯ К ЛЮБОМУ ДВИЖЕНИЮ

БОЛЬШЕ ВЛАСТИ БЫЛО БЫ НЕОБХОДИМО, ЧТОБЫ ДОСТИГНУТЬ ЧЕГО - НИБУДЬ

F*** THIS PLACE... F*** SOME WHORES >:mad

Is it not better to have a Cold War with Russia (who'll be heading back to communism I am sure of it) than a hot war with Islam?

Russia has had some questionable calls lately but Cheaney needs to chill out, he's gonna bust his pacemaker

The only way Russia is a threat is by selling it's nukes

[quote=SalTheButcher ]
THE USSR WAS ALLWAYS DOWN WITH THE US, THE COLD WAR WAS A F****** POLITICAL CHARADE CREATED BY THE US IN ORDER TO GLORIFY ITS LEADERS, SCARE THE PUBLIC, AND EMPOWER ITSELF
[quote]

interesting...what is your source my brotha....how did you arrive at this conclusion.....

ok so I am a retard, I do not know how to use the quote button

let me restate

what is your source Sal that the cold war was a charade..made up so to speak

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Is it not better to have a Cold War with Russia (who'll be heading back to communism I am sure of it) than a hot war with Islam?

Russia has had some questionable calls lately but Cheaney needs to chill out, he's gonna bust his pacemaker

The only way Russia is a threat is by selling it's nukes

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but its not like this will end the islam thing, this is just because people hare are almost ALL opposed to the war at this point and almost NOBODY supports bush anymore even in the places he is respected, this is just to get the people to feel they need overlook what wrong the adminisration has done in order to unite against the "GREAT COMMUNIST THREAT"

FUCK THIS PLACE... FUCK SOME WHORES >:mad

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

ok so I am a retard, I do not know how to use the quote button

let me restate

what is your source Sal that the cold war was a charade..made up so to speak

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not that it ws made up, the entire fear of communism was pushed upon the people by the government

dude you are just pissed off cause Judah lost....

they convinced the people that communism was a threat, and that russia would blow up the US

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

dude you are just pissed off cause Judah lost....

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?

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

ok so I am a retard, I do not know how to use the quote button

let me restate

what is your source Sal that the cold war was a charade..made up so to speak

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not that it ws made up, the entire fear of communism was pushed upon the people by the government

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ok so now the cold war was not a charade.... and it was real glad we settled that

so on to my next question was fear of communism rational or irrational. In my opinion fear of communism was completely rational because of Lenin's influence on the Marxists movement. Lenin believed in "the end justifies the means". Atrocities were committed so that the communist paradise could be accomplished. Lenin, Stalin and Mao had undue influence on modern communist thought hence the fear of communism was real. If the other communist thinkers of the day had as much influence, the ones who infused moralistic thought to communism maybe the fear would not be there. But in the end, Lenin and Mao won the day hence the fear was perfectly legitimate

do you know what makes communism be the way america implies it ALLWAYS is?

its because once the communist government is in place the man heading the government is supposed to step down (according to leninism) but they almost never do, and it becomes more of a dictatorship


the soveit union ws close to it... but when lenin died early it was ruined, as stalin put himself in power by getting all the positions he could

he first glorified lenin, and then built off that and implied he was the replacement and that all the glory HE had made for lenin, the embalming and all that shit, he put it onto himslef


stalin is the reason there were so many lenin statues


he wanted that for himself and he knew lenin ws more respected, so in order for him to have that he had to first do it for lenin

lenin didnt glorify himself, stalin did that cuz he wanted to be glorified, and he couldnt have been accepted as such a huge figure unless lenin was first given the same image...

lenins last request was that stalin NOT be allowed to obtain any more power cuz he knew the S*** he would pull

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

do you know what makes communism be the way america implies it ALLWAYS is?

its because once the communist government is in place the man heading the government is supposed to step down (according to leninism) but they almost never do, and it becomes more of a dictatorship


the soveit union ws close to it... but when lenin died early it was ruined, as stalin put himself in power by getting all the positions he could

he first glorified lenin, and then built off that and implied he was the replacement and that all the glory HE had made for lenin, the embalming and all that shit, he put it onto himslef


stalin is the reason there were so many lenin statues


he wanted that for himself and he knew lenin ws more respected, so in order for him to have that he had to first do it for lenin

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I just finished reading two books that dealt with Marxism and Socialist thought. Fascinating. There were many paths the movement could have followed. However, in the end, Lenin's version won. Lenin's version was harsh and he believed that you had to beat heads in in order to accomplish the goal. Lenin was a despot who instituted elitism into communism. For you to defend him is bothersome. the Bernstein model was much more preferable. Bernstein critiqued Lenin's methods. He was a communist too but he said that there needed to be a more moral approach.

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

lenin didnt glorify himself, stalin did that cuz he wanted to be glorified, and he couldnt have been accepted as such a huge figure unless lenin was first given the same image...

lenins last request was that stalin NOT be allowed to obtain any more power cuz he knew the S*** he would pull

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Dont defend Lenin my brotha, he knew Stalin was psycho but he, Lenin, was equally devious. Bernstein should have had a bigger influence IMO

So basically Stalin made the communists bad? Lenin was no peach. Would Trotsky have been better? Maybe Missy will give you support....I personally can't get behind communism it goes against the whole "work hard and become successful" ideals that America believes in

im not defending his methods, im trying to explain the reason our government has the ability to turn its people against communism


if lenin wouldnt have died early and would have done what he said he would have, the soviet union would have run itself and no one man would have been the sole leader


it would have removed what our government points to as the reason communism is bad

Work hard and be sucesseful America believes in.

More like the " Cut Down, Step On, Use And Abuse everyone to make it to the top " that actually works.

Imo Communism died with Lennin.

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Originally Posted by Sheps

Work hard and be sucesseful America believes in.

More like the " Cut Down, Step On, Use And Abuse everyone to make it to the top " that actually works.

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damn right

america is run by corporations,

they carry out the agenda of whatever polliticains can pass law that would hurt them


do you really believe clear channel thought that howard stern with about 3 people editing the show before it got to thier airwaves was "indecent"?

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

im not defending his methods, im trying to explain the reason our government has the ability to turn its people against communism


if lenin wouldnt have died early and would have done what he said he would have, the soviet union would have run itself and no one man would have been the sole leader


it would have removed what our government points to as the reason communism is bad

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I believe you are wrong about the part where you said it would have run itself. Lenin deviated drastically from Marx, Hegle and Engels. He set up a mechanism to be run by elites. He did not trust the common Russian. I repeat my question, what is your source? What are you reading that made you reach this conclusion?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

So basically Stalin made the communists bad? Lenin was no peach. Would Trotsky have been better? Maybe Missy will give you support....I personally can't get behind communism it goes against the whole "work hard and become successful" ideals that America believes in

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yea kind of, Marxism-Leninism and later the Maoists were what made communism a scourge upon the earth.

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Originally Posted by Sheps

Work hard and be sucesseful America believes in.

More like the " Cut Down, Step On, Use And Abuse everyone to make it to the top " that actually works.

Imo Communism died with Lennin.

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the great majority of Americans do not follow the cut down method. Only bad people follow that. As a matter of fact there is a very real American trait that believes in work hard and make it to the top.

What is the love affair with Lenin? Lenin actually said it was necessary to beat people to get them to follow communism. Let me see if I can find the quote

Lennin was unconditionally loved by his people.

In fact i believe no large scale leader in history has been as loved by his/her people then Lennin was.

please, I can name three leaders that were loved tremendously.

what about Allende, Roosevelt, what about ME

I guess that we can agree to disagree comrades sheps and sal

I just leave you with this. Tis was Lenin who instituted state terror through his secret police to oppress the populace. It was him who influenced untold communists to do whatever it took to impose communism upon a people.

hope this helps

lenin was scared that someone would convince the people they were of royal blood, it was touchy cuz the royal family he had slaughtered was able to stay in power cuz people actually believed they were descended from god, and if just one person managed to convince the population they were from that bloodline it was likley the peopel would revolt

There are more rags to riches stories here than in the USSR or China.

Capitalism = Good
Communism = Bad

And the world keeps on spinnin

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Originally Posted by Lyle

There are more rags to riches stories here than in the USSR or China.

Capitalism = Good
Communism = Bad

And the world keeps on spinnin

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thats EXACTLY what im talking about, thats accepted as fact here, so much that just implying a country may turn communist is enough to get alot of people ok with a war

I'm not saying Capitalism is for everyone...but don't come bogart our stuff if your communist.....China, I'm looking at you!

china has no reason to go to war with us, and russia cant afford a war

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

china has no reason to go to war with us, and russia cant afford a war

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I'm not saying go to war with anyone!

China is communist yet they run an economy with McDonald's and it's pretty free and open yet they are still commies...something doesn't add up.

Russia's sale of nukes and missles adversly affects EVERYONE not just the US.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

china has no reason to go to war with us, and russia cant afford a war

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I'm not saying go to war with anyone!

China is communist yet they run an economy with McDonald's and it's pretty free and open yet they are still commies...something doesn't add up.

Russia's sale of nukes and missles adversly affects EVERYONE not just the US.

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you hit the nail on the head lyle

Damn straight brotha!

I mean why trade with China and we still don't trade with Cuba? Cuba needs it more...we'll send you McDonald's for baseball players!

the point is that in an attempt to distract the public from the fact that the was for reconstruction money is going horribly cheney pissed off russia, i didnt mean to get into a debate about communism

sorry Sal I am retarded

...but at least you're not communist!

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

sorry Sal I am retarded

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?

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

ok so I am a retard, I do not know how to use the quote button

let me restate

what is your source Sal that the cold war was a charade..made up so to speak

---

not that it ws made up, the entire fear of communism was pushed upon the people by the government

---

ok so now the cold war was not a charade.... and it was real glad we settled that

so on to my next question was fear of communism rational or irrational. In my opinion fear of communism was completely rational because of Lenin's influence on the Marxists movement. Lenin believed in "the end justifies the means". Atrocities were committed so that the communist paradise could be accomplished. Lenin, Stalin and Mao had undue influence on modern communist thought hence the fear of communism was real. If the other communist thinkers of the day had as much influence, the ones who infused moralistic thought to communism maybe the fear would not be there. But in the end, Lenin and Mao won the day hence the fear was perfectly legitimate

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Deep subject.

In the present, should 'non-democratic' countries have fear (rational or irrational) of the 'end justifies means' foreign policies of established 'democratic' countries, who also commit atrocities so that the 'democratic' paradise is accomnplished?


*used inverted commas as I don't consider a two horse race where th guy who spends most on adverts wins an election a democracy.

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

sorry Sal I am retarded

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I am retarded that I did not understand your direction

im not saying that, im just saying i wasnt trying to defend anything, i was just pissed at fucking cheney