Please tell me, why did B-Hop and RJJ never met the best Europeans?

Please tell me, why did B-Hop and RJJ never met the best Europeans?

Why fighting Morrade Hakkar, Howard Eastman and Scott Dann, when you are able to fight Collins, Calzaghe, Eubank, Watson, Eubank, Ottke and a lot of other good Europeans boxers. Why did they never fight them?

I doubt that RJJ and B-Hop could win over the Europeans - just watch how hyped Lacy was.

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Originally Posted by cityboy

Please tell me, why did B-Hop and RJJ never met the best Europeans?

Why fighting Morrade Hakkar, Howard Eastman and Scott Dann, when you are able to fight Collins, Calzaghe, Eubank, Watson, Eubank, Ottke and a lot of other good Europeans boxers. Why did they never fight them?

I doubt that RJJ and B-Hop could win over the Europeans - just watch how hyped Lacy was.

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for starters you have eubank on there twice......second who is watson and ottke? I'll kinda give you collins...but Roy was at Lt Heavy when collins was making a name for himself....Eubank went up to cruiser while Rjj was at Lt hw hmmmm..wonder why? Benn, eubank, collins were getting into their twilites and I'm thinking maybe they didn't want to have any part of the RJJ express beat down at that time.....B_HOP always said he would fight the best....I'm sure if they would have stepped up and said I can beat you B-HOP would have beat them as well...might be why they never pushed the issue...I don't think it happened because RJJ or B-HOP were ducking the europeans as much as the europeans were ducking them....

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by cityboy

Please tell me, why did B-Hop and RJJ never met the best Europeans?

Why fighting Morrade Hakkar, Howard Eastman and Scott Dann, when you are able to fight Collins, Calzaghe, Eubank, Watson, Eubank, Ottke and a lot of other good Europeans boxers. Why did they never fight them?

I doubt that RJJ and B-Hop could win over the Europeans - just watch how hyped Lacy was.

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for starters you have eubank on there twice......second who is watson and ottke? I'll kinda give you collins...but Roy was at Lt Heavy when collins was making a name for himself....Eubank went up to cruiser while Rjj was at Lt hw hmmmm..wonder why? Benn, eubank, collins were getting into their twilites and I'm thinking maybe they didn't want to have any part of the RJJ express beat down at that time.....B_HOP always said he would fight the best....I'm sure if they would have stepped up and said I can beat you B-HOP would have beat them as well...might be why they never pushed the issue...I don't think it happened because RJJ or B-HOP were ducking the europeans as much as the europeans were ducking them....

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Yeah, what he said.

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by cityboy

Please tell me, why did B-Hop and RJJ never met the best Europeans?

Why fighting Morrade Hakkar, Howard Eastman and Scott Dann, when you are able to fight Collins, Calzaghe, Eubank, Watson, Eubank, Ottke and a lot of other good Europeans boxers. Why did they never fight them?

I doubt that RJJ and B-Hop could win over the Europeans - just watch how hyped Lacy was.

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for starters you have eubank on there twice......second who is watson and ottke? I'll kinda give you collins...but Roy was at Lt Heavy when collins was making a name for himself....Eubank went up to cruiser while Rjj was at Lt hw hmmmm..wonder why? Benn, eubank, collins were getting into their twilites and I'm thinking maybe they didn't want to have any part of the RJJ express beat down at that time.....B_HOP always said he would fight the best....I'm sure if they would have stepped up and said I can beat you B-HOP would have beat them as well...might be why they never pushed the issue...I don't think it happened because RJJ or B-HOP were ducking the europeans as much as the europeans were ducking them....

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is late now so ill look into it for an official quote when i get up, but as far as i remember eubank said he didn't want to fight RJJ, don't think he felt he could beat him.

B-hop was meant to fight calzaghe but there were problems with hop's promoters and they called it off *cough* duck *cough*

As for calzaghe v Rjj, some say rjj wudn't come to fight him in the uk, some say calzaghe wudnt go to the us to fight him only real fact anyone can be sure about it wuda been one hell of a fight and a great shame to boxing it never went ahead:(

Not sure about BHOP. He didn't want to fight anyone who had a chance. As for Roy, there wasn't a European fighter that would have beaten him, or come close. Plus, Roy had 5 belts, with 5 constant mandatories, in which no Europeans during that time were ranked high enough to be a mandatory. That's the main reason probably. Plus Roy getting robbed at the Olympics detured him from traveling.

Eubank admitted that he intentionally didn't fight Roy Jones Jr :)

Because the europeans weren't willing to come and face the champions at their weight on their terms. If you want to fight the best you have to give up something to fight them, and the europeans weren't willing to do that.

It takes 2 to make a fight ;)

If the Euros wanted a fight with the world's best, then they should have been the agressors and pushed....they didn't. Besides, like someone said earlier, all the names you mentioned we're kind of out of the picture.

:coolclick: to bigragu

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

Not sure about BHOP. He didn't want to fight anyone who had a chance. As for Roy, there wasn't a European fighter that would have beaten him, or come close. Plus, Roy had 5 belts, with 5 constant mandatories, in which no Europeans during that time were ranked high enough to be a mandatory. That's the main reason probably. Plus Roy getting robbed at the Olympics detured him from traveling.

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Collins and Benn called RJJ out many many times during their careers. The same with Calzaghe and B-Hop.

I do think that it is a pattern of american boxers to not fight the best from Europe and still claiming that their the best. Most boxers get beaten up badly when they fight top Europeans. Just watch the likes of Brewster, Lacy, Byrd, Tszyu etc etc

It would be a brave decision for a champ to go to Germany and fight on a Universium card. There seem to be more outrageous decisions there than anywhere else. Jones and Hopkins probably wouldn't have had a problem with fighting Dariuz or Beyer, Ottke etc in the US but Reid, Brewer and Danny Green (1st fight) all got ripped off over there just to mention a few.

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Originally Posted by shooter

It would be a brave decision for a champ to go to Germany and fight on a Universium card. There seem to be more outrageous decisions there than anywhere else. Jones and Hopkins probably wouldn't have had a problem with fighting Dariuz or Beyer, Ottke etc in the US but Reid, Brewer and Danny Green (1st fight) all got ripped off over there just to mention a few.

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Is it better for a Sturm to go fighting ODLH in America?

B-Hop and RJJ would not travel and nor should they have - but remember theat European World champions get tarred with "Hometown Fighter" for that exact same reason.

The European most likely to have beaten RJJ imo is Darius Michaelchevski!

Hardly any Yanks or Euros wanted to leave their turf to defend or much less even fight for a title...enter Winky Wright. ;D

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Originally Posted by BIG H

The European most likely to have beaten RJJ imo is Darius Michaelchevski!

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Yyyyeah, ok, Darius was decent but nothing special...he would have been picked apart and KO'd.

The point is the Europeans didn't want to come over here and RJ and B-Hop had all the belts they wanted so they didn't have to go over to Europe.

Both sides are at fault...seems like they should have fought on an oil rig out at sea or something

Also why fight Svenn Ottke when you penalized for hitting him?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by BIG H

The European most likely to have beaten RJJ imo is Darius Michaelchevski!

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Yyyyeah, ok, Darius was decent but nothing special...he would have been picked apart and KO'd.

The point is the Europeans didn't want to come over here and RJ and B-Hop had all the belts they wanted so they didn't have to go over to Europe.

Both sides are at fault...seems like they should have fought on an oil rig out at sea or something

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I said "Most likely" didn't say he would win - and the point about having belts and not having to travel is not exclusive to American fighters ;)

Very good points BigH...

I also thought that Michalzweski wasn't the stiffest competition for Roy, I thought Joe C. at 168 would have caught him on the downside looking back at it now. A lefty who wants to trade...that style is no fun for anybody!

A Benn-RJ matchup would have been reminiscent of Rocky IV, with Roy being Rocky and the G-Man the lost friend Apollo, and Benn being the hard ass from outside of the US.

I think that Watson was potentially the best of the lot.

I think Benn, with a punchers chance would win two out of ten against Jones, I think Eubank had the wrong style to beat Jones and would get outpointed 10 times out of ten.

Watson would have won 4 out of ten, I reckon.

Mind you, this is how upsets happen as Benn may have whacked Jones out in one fight??? This is why we love boxing, if it was predictable it would be really boring .

I would liked to have seen Toney and Hopkins in that mix as well. Would have been a golden era had those fights happened...damn shame they didn't!

First of all Benn and Eubank were never the same after they each permanently injured a fighter in the ring, they both rapidly lost it starting around 94 or 95, which is when Roy was just coming into his dominence... Steve Collins body was falling apart by 97 or 98 and he was supposed to fight Calzaghe but he was getting whipped by his sparring partners so he retired. Calzaghe never called anyone out, made any noise, or had any big fights at all until Lacy... It's his own fault he doesn't have anyone on his record.. Why would a dominant US champion like Roy want to go to Wales to fight an unknown?? You really think the money would even be close?? Were talking about Roy Jones not Lacy, he could make much more fighting in the US and I know Calzaghe had never shown any interest in travelling there.

To me it looks like a pattern. Especially by RJJ and B-Hop.

Most US hypes are avoiding their opponents in Europe and when they finally fights them most of them loose big time!

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Originally Posted by cityboy

To me it looks like a pattern. Especially by RJJ and B-Hop.

Most US hypes are avoiding their opponents in Europe and when they finally fights them most of them loose big time!

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...RJJ and B-Hop weren't hype you cunt. Clinton Woods was the best England had to offer and he got his shit handed to him! Don't even bring up Ottke! If anyone was HYPE it was that boring bastard. Michalzweski got KO'd EASY by a fighter who was nowhere NEAR Roy's calibre!!!

B-Hop whipped Eastman easy, what more did you want from him? There were no British middleweights to beat other than that.

You're an idiot plain and simple...I mean it's like making a big deal over Lewis beating Tyson...had RJJ beat Eubanks or Benn they would have been past it at the time or Roy would have been too young. It would be like Ali-Holmes or Holmes-Tyson...you understand? OLD fighter-young fighter and it wouldn't prove anything

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by cityboy

To me it looks like a pattern. Especially by RJJ and B-Hop.

Most US hypes are avoiding their opponents in Europe and when they finally fights them most of them loose big time!

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...RJJ and B-Hop weren't hype you c***. Clinton Woods was the best England had to offer and he got his S*** handed to him! Don't even bring up Ottke! If anyone was HYPE it was that boring B******. Michalzweski got KO'd EASY by a fighter who was nowhere NEAR Roy's calibre!!!

B-Hop whipped Eastman easy, what more did you want from him? There were no British middleweights to beat other than that.

You're an idiot plain and simple...I mean it's like making a big deal over Lewis beating Tyson...had RJJ beat Eubanks or Benn they would have been past it at the time or Roy would have been too young. It would be like Ali-Holmes or Holmes-Tyson...you understand? OLD fighter-young fighter and it wouldn't prove anything

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LYlE, you are stupid and not educated.

It just seems odd to claim that B-Hop ducks fighters when he just fought Jermain Taylor twice, and is about to go up to fight Tarver. The guy fights just about anybody.

I mean I know the guy didn't fight many TRUE middleweights but it takes a lot to have 20 defenses! More than Benn or Eubank can say!! Hopkins was cursed with a weak division and it ain't his fault no one persued him, I mean he was THE middleweight champ.

Same with RJ at 175, Daruis had many oppertunities to come to the US and fight but he didn't, so did Ottke, so did Calzaghe, by that time Eubank and Benn were old and I don't mind that RJ didn't fight Benn, he was a cheap fighter...he disabled McClellan not purposely but might as well have...McClellan was jobbed of that fight too, it's a TKO victory and G-Man is still fighting, I bet you 5 billion dollars had G-Man fallen through the ropes the fight would have been stopped!

I don't discredit those british fighters but it's apples and oranges!

lyle you are so so stuped and not edimucated

Apparently so, and this is why England rules every division and spawned all time great Audley Harrison....I guess they showed me

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Why would a dominant US champion like Roy want to go to Wales to fight an unknown?? .

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We have some very nice scenery and our sheep are clean.

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by cityboy

Please tell me, why did B-Hop and RJJ never met the best Europeans?

Why fighting Morrade Hakkar, Howard Eastman and Scott Dann, when you are able to fight Collins, Calzaghe, Eubank, Watson, Eubank, Ottke and a lot of other good Europeans boxers. Why did they never fight them?

I doubt that RJJ and B-Hop could win over the Europeans - just watch how hyped Lacy was.

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for starters you have eubank on there twice......second who is watson and ottke? I'll kinda give you collins...but Roy was at Lt Heavy when collins was making a name for himself....Eubank went up to cruiser while Rjj was at Lt hw hmmmm..wonder why? Benn, eubank, collins were getting into their twilites and I'm thinking maybe they didn't want to have any part of the RJJ express beat down at that time.....B_HOP always said he would fight the best....I'm sure if they would have stepped up and said I can beat you B-HOP would have beat them as well...might be why they never pushed the issue...I don't think it happened because RJJ or B-HOP were ducking the europeans as much as the europeans were ducking them....

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I agree, most can't swallow the truth!

Jones didn't fight Benn because he thought it would recieve the wrong publicity as a 'revenge mission', with him having been good friends with McClellan.

Collins priced himself out of a Jones fight because he knew he'd be in for a career-ending beating.

Jones didn't want to fight Eubank, quite honestly. He feared Eubank.

Calzaghe wouldn't go to the US to make himself a bigger name over there, so Jones didn't fight him.

Jones wasn't willing to go to Germany to fight the Rocchigiani's or Michalczewski's. He made this clear.

Hopkins came onto the scene about five years after Benn, Eubank and Collins retired.

Hopkins priced himself out of a Calzaghe fight on many occasions.

Don't listen to Steve Collins' deranged thoughts on Roy Jones ducking him, by the way, because Collins asked HBO for 5 MILLION.

And let's be honest, Jones would of played with Collins and stopped him on cuts if anything.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

First of all Benn and Eubank were never the same after they each permanently injured a fighter in the ring, they both rapidly lost it starting around 94 or 95, which is when Roy was just coming into his dominence... Steve Collins body was falling apart by 97 or 98 and he was supposed to fight Calzaghe but he was getting whipped by his sparring partners so he retired. Calzaghe never called anyone out, made any noise, or had any big fights at all until Lacy... It's his own fault he doesn't have anyone on his record.. Why would a dominant US champion like Roy want to go to Wales to fight an unknown?? You really think the money would even be close?? Were talking about Roy Jones not Lacy, he could make much more fighting in the US and I know Calzaghe had never shown any interest in travelling there.

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I think you're right except one thing, Joe did call Roy out when he wasn't shot. I remember seeing it on the Tyson undercard when he fought in Copenhagen - and it wasn't blowing smoke up anyones ass, the guy wanted to fight him more than anything. Still Joe's fault for not coming over :-\

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Originally Posted by raleights

Still Joe's fault for not coming over :-\

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Why should Joe have to go to the usa to, fight for a year or 2 on undercards for the chance of fighting Jones jr? calzaghe was a champ, a champ who beat eubank... he wasn't given that belt, ok eubank wasn't the same as he was in his prime, but he was still in damn good shape

Jones jr didn't want that fight, if he was the man people thought he was he wuda beaten calzaghe to prove for 1 he doesn't duck anyone, and 2 for the belt... no matter how good you are, a belts a belt.. if Jones jr wanted the fight a neutral place surly cuda been found. he never wanted to fight him, end of sotry.

I think one reason Jones wanted to keep his fights in the States instead of fighting abroad was his bitterness about what happened in the Olympics.

It's a bit naive to think Joe shouldn't have to come over here. England (as much as I love British fighters) will never be the epicenter of boxing, It's USA USA USA - noone compares, you link all the great fighters in history to this country. Joe should of wanted to be apart of that but instead he stayed over there blowing millions down the tube. And believe me, Americans would of loved Joe's style. Bottom line, Roy was P4P king according to EVERYONE. It was Calzaghe's job to come over here and he didn't.

This is coming from a huge Calzaghe fan
Also what bgordon said, being fucked in the olympics I know for a fact screwed us out of a Roy Jones/Dariusz Michaelsewski fight, probably the same reason Roy wasn't willing to go over to Whales.

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by raleights

Still Joe's fault for not coming over :-\

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Why should Joe have to go to the usa to, fight for a year or 2 on undercards for the chance of fighting Jones jr? calzaghe was a champ, a champ who beat eubank... he wasn't given that belt, ok eubank wasn't the same as he was in his prime, but he was still in damn good shape

Jones jr didn't want that fight, if he was the man people thought he was he wuda beaten calzaghe to prove for 1 he doesn't duck anyone, and 2 for the belt... no matter how good you are, a belts a belt.. if Jones jr wanted the fight a neutral place surly cuda been found. he never wanted to fight him, end of sotry.

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;D ;D ;D Jones woulda Crushed Calzaghe. Joe wasn't even in his league. He didn't have to power to do any thing, what was he gonna do OUTBOX Jones??? ;D

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by raleights

Still Joe's fault for not coming over :-\

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Why should Joe have to go to the usa to, fight for a year or 2 on undercards for the chance of fighting Jones jr? calzaghe was a champ, a champ who beat eubank... he wasn't given that belt, ok eubank wasn't the same as he was in his prime, but he was still in damn good shape

Jones jr didn't want that fight, if he was the man people thought he was he wuda beaten calzaghe to prove for 1 he doesn't duck anyone, and 2 for the belt... no matter how good you are, a belts a belt.. if Jones jr wanted the fight a neutral place surly cuda been found. he never wanted to fight him, end of sotry.

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;D ;D ;D Jones woulda Crushed Calzaghe. Joe wasn't even in his league. He didn't have to power to do any thing, what was he gonna do OUTBOX Jones??? ;D

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Yea, that's the other thing.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

;D ;D ;D Jones woulda Crushed Calzaghe. Joe wasn't even in his league. He didn't have to power to do any thing, what was he gonna do OUTBOX Jones??? ;D

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Don't think he woulda destroyed Calzaghe by any means...but it woulda been a good fight with a wack ass decision...in Jones' favor.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I mean I know the guy didn't fight many TRUE middleweights but it takes a lot to have 20 defenses! More than Benn or Eubank can say!! Hopkins was cursed with a weak division and it ain't his fault no one persued him, I mean he was THE middleweight champ.

Same with RJ at 175, Daruis had many oppertunities to come to the US and fight but he didn't, so did Ottke, so did Calzaghe, by that time Eubank and Benn were old and I don't mind that RJ didn't fight Benn, he was a cheap fighter...he disabled McClellan not purposely but might as well have...McClellan was jobbed of that fight too, it's a TKO victory and G-Man is still fighting, I bet you 5 billion dollars had G-Man fallen through the ropes the fight would have been stopped!

I don't discredit those british fighters but it's apples and oranges!

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Hopkins was blessed with a weak division, it was no curse!

If at any time he felt disatisfied he could have followed Jones, Toney, Eubank and Benn's examples and moved up.

He stayed where he was because he it was the safest and most sensible thing to do, not knocking the guy but to say he was cursed is way overstating it.

When he first stepped into the ring did they not keep Oscar at a lower weight so he could beat up on smaller guys? Hopkins made a career out of it ;D