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to be a bad-ass mofo, what would you choose and why? Only one choice!
I'm considering taking something...boxing, muay thai, jiu jitsu, karate, etc...but can't make up my mind. I'm looking for great self defence skills and the ability to kick ass when I need to bail out my drunk buddies in a barfight! But most of all I just want to get out of the house before the wife puts me to more work! ;)
Thanks
Muay Thai is easily the best overall style of striking, although it's easier to be effective with jujitsu. But if you're confronted with a situation that involves you fighting more than 1 person, you really want Muay Thai over BJJ.
Thanks. Appreciate the feedback.
Let me play devil's advocate for a second here...just to learn something.
Whenever I see instructional books on muay thai vs other disciplines, it seems like the least scientific fighting style there is. Anyone can kick a gug in the leg, no? My personal feeling is that boxers are them most advanced strikers, but they're one dimentional. Muay Thai brings in the kicking, but they don't seem to be as skilled in kicking as karate or taekwondo guys?
Thoughts?
Theres not that many moves in Muay Thai, it's very very basic but absolutely lethal. Clinching and kneeing to the face, kicking to the leg, straight punching. All the fancy stuff you see in Tae Kwon Do is nice, I've done plenty of it and had loads of fun but when faced with a real situation I'm not dumb enough to use it, 360 crescents WILL get you hurt lol. Yes boxing is far more complex, using footwork to maximize punching power and hand speed. It just has to be modified a little bit when it comes to street fighting - can't go out there trying to win rounds. And I've seen on more than 1 occassion Muay Thai vs Tae Kwon Do, and it's never good for the TKD fighter.
These are all the weapons of Muay Thai:
http://www.thaiboxingsuit.com/article/weapon
Also when you're learning to bang Thai style, they deaden the nerves on your body so things don't hurt as bad (painful process). Those guys can take lots and lots of pain. Body hardening like a mother fucker
id say go for karate, but for a street fight, you would have to choose a discipline of karate
there are many such as wadaroo (not sure how to spell) which is faster but less powerful style or shotocan karate which is more powerful with less speed, there are many more aswel;
hope this helps
For a street fight (assuming its a 1 on 1) go with either Jiu Jitsu or Muay Thai (both is highly recommended if you have the means). Stay away from any form of karate. The reasons for this are simple: 1) Both use gross motor skills (easy to learn) and 2) Both will train you with LIVE SPARRING in a real situation. So when the time come to really use them you are ready to rock and roll!
In a standing fight there is not a more simplistic or leathal art than Muay Thai. If you have to hit the ground, Jiu Jitsu will let you tear somebody up without taking much damage yourself.
In all honesty, boxing will serve you just fine in about 95% of street fights. Muay Thai is great, and probably superior in most fights, but its not too often youre going to run into a Muay Thai specialist in a bar thats lookin to rumble. Knees and elbows are great, and they hurt a LOT, but theyre also a great way to get sued, as they cause massive damage. While a knee to the head can fracture bones easily, and elbows will cause massive bleeding, a good left hook will usually just knock the guy out and leave him with a nasty headache when he gets up. He's looking to defend himself and help his buddies, not decimate people and lose all his personal wealth or spend time in jail for assault. The more you hurt someone above what you needed to stop them, the more likely you're gonna wind up losing everything, or spending some time in jail.
If it came to straight up fighting, I might even say Wing Chun, because those guys are hardcore when it comes to striking. Punching a guy in the throat, collapsing his windpipe, then gouging his eyes out is a great way to win a fight, but its also a great way to wind up in jail.
With a name like Heavy D he can't be wrong...
No sarcasm either.. Theres forms of fighting out there none of us know about that are insanely effective. They're not a secret, just not advertised and you have to look for them. Targetting the sensitive places like the throat, temple, meridian, eye gouge.. Of course I can't show you over the internet but theres a way you can grip your hands around ones ear, pull with 6 pounds of pressure and the ear comes off. I know guys who can literally turn a quarter into a weapon. All the knife throwing you see in movies, people can be that accurate and fast with a knife if they practice enough. Make no mistake theres people out there capable of crazy shit you'd never imagine - if the rest of the world only knew what was possible. All the things you can do to break someone down.... and when you hurt someone like that with a martial art background they won't hesitate to make an example out of you.
I make my suggestions based on "no other way out" type situations. Believe me, I am the first person to walk away from a confrontation if at all possible, for the very reasons stated. 9.9 times out of 10, if you make all reasonable attempts to get out of a situation, but the other guy just won't let you (admit it guys, you've all known of situations like this), even if you slit him open with an elbow the cops will say it was self defense. It all boils down to being smart, and knowing your surroundings.Quote:
He's looking to defend himself and help his buddies, not decimate people and lose all his personal wealth or spend time in jail for assault. The more you hurt someone above what you needed to stop them, the more likely you're gonna wind up losing everything, or spending some time in jail.
Thanks for the feedback guys!
Trust me, I like the idea of being a tough mofo a lot more than actually wanting to become one. Does that make sense? :D I just like mma and wouldn't mind learning something...but if I do that much I may as well go for as much bad-a$$-for-the-buck as I can!
Muay Thai without question. Generally, going to the ground in a street fight is not a good idea unless you're in the middle of a large empty space and there's nobody around but the guy you're fighting. Getting kicked in the head by your opponent's friends isn't fun.
So if ground fighting styles are not the best option, BJJ is out. Of the standup arts, Muay Thai has always proven to be the most effective style of the styles that train with any real form of sparring. It could be argued that other styles are more effective because they teach eye gouging, groin strikes, etc. But most of these styles do not train with aggressive sparring and IMO, there's nothing that prepares you for a fight like putting on a pair of gloves/pads and having someone try to knock the snot out of you. Not only that, but if you gouge out somebody's eyes, you're in trouble unless they're MUCH larger than you or they have a weapon.
definitley muay thai
The one thing I would suggest to you is to throw in some wrestling take down defense. If you're a stand up fighter, you better make sure that you know how to keep the fight standing!
If u wanna be a pussy and use a kick in a fight then yeah go with muay thai.Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheButcher
as far as punching technique goes, they are crap and weak imo, well the british are. As far at the kids in Thailand that train since babies, now they are the real deal, still have relitivly weak punches but the elbows make up for that alot.
hey, if someone starts shit with you you can kick them in the groin and not be a pussy ;)
Havn't been in too many street fights? You do whatever you gotta do to end the fight. As a matter of fact Bas Rutten speaks highly of the groin kick and well... if you trained for the next 30 years you probably wouldn't equal EL GUAPOQuote:
Originally Posted by Sheps
If you see someone using Muay Thai and they look weak, blame it on the person not the art.
But thats just me, I know I'll do whatever it takes even if I gotta pull out a firearm.. If I'll use a gun I'll definately use a groin kick. You just havn't reached that warrior mentality yet, no biggie :)
The way I see it, if its an "honor fight", where someone calls you out to fight over something (sleeping with a girlfriend, sister, something to that effect), nut shots are a no no. But if someone jumps me in the streets or in a bar, I wont hesitate to kick him in the nuts, or poke his friggin eyes out. I like to fight fair, but as soon as I get jumped, all the rules go out the friggin window.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus
For my money, if I could be super skilled @ 2 disciplines, I would be a striker with a wrestling background.
Call me old fashioned, but I loved when Mark Coleman could stay out of his opponent's reach, & still had the speed to be able to shoot for a quick takedown & then pound mercilessly for a tap.
Good times. :D
I would still always respect a Brazilian submission guy from the Gracie camp.
But I prefer the smashing of the face. :jabbing:
Thanks :)
moreso than mastercard a good sprawl is priceless ;D
Can't believe no-one has mentioned Judo. Its pressure tested (competition), is adaptable and is widely known and recognised as the best support system in a fight should the fight get close in. Its what a lot of doorman train in. Geoff Thompson Renowned self protection expert and ex doorman) says judo is the best kept secret in martial arts. I used to know a couple of dan grades that worked the door and they literally OWNED every confrontation they found themselves in. Wing Chun is the biggest pile of shyte going (sorry all you wingchunners) I sparred full contact with a Wing Chun red sash and had him submitting 2 times in a couple of mins from two chokes. The 3rd time i threw him on the deck with a bastardised osotogari (grabbing the trachea and powering through) and funnily enough he didn't fancy anymore. Plus their strikes carry zero power (they punch fresh air in training) and under stressful conditions they recall sod all of their fancy straight line punches. (well thats my opinion anyway)
Self defence is so much more than learning to strike. Its all about awareness, situational control, body language, posturing.
I train in Judo and Urban Combatives which is just that. Urban combat. We train to strike pre emptively and cover all bases of combat. Judo is my support sustem.
My advice? Train 3 or 4 pre emptive strikes and drill them until they are second nature. Learn to hit fukcing hard and hit first. When you are faced with a real situation and adrenaline is a factor all your learned fancy training and targetting will go out the window. You will rely on a few gross motor strikes. Judo is the best support system because it is pressure tested in competition. Forget BJJ...if you go to the ground in a bar you are IN THE S*** and someone (anyone...not even someone involved in the altercation) will feel the need to play football with your head.
Look up F.A.S.T training. Fear and Adrenal Stress Training. A lot of martial artsist have had a bit of a shock when attending on of these course. Sudeenly their Karate 'death punches' don't do S*** under the infuelnce of adrenaline.
In summary train strikes (3 or 4)...my suggestion. Elbow,Hammerfist,tiger claw palm strike (you don't want to hit a skull with bare knuckles..learning open hand strikes will allow you to employ continuous attack rather than F****** your hand with the first punch) and chinjab.Traing them hard with full agression and if possible get your training partner to simualte adrenaline by calling you all sorts of names,getting in your face, spitting at you. Then train them pre-empotively hitting the pad with 110% agression and with all the force you can muster. We are looking for a one punch knockout here if that doesn't happen you wan't contiunous attack until the threat has gone.
Choose Judo as your support system should the fight get in close. It teaches you weight displacement and body mechanics. Enabling you to get back into a position to win the fight from a standup. Also you can slam the c*nt into the deck. Ever been thrown on concrete from a judoka? You aint getting up.
Minsdet also plays a huge part in self defence. Train agression 110% when you train. You need to be able to flick a swtich in your head and be at 110% agression and fight until there is f*ck all left to fight about.
Self defece/urban combat regardless of art is 80% aggression 20% technique. Ever seen squaddies fight? They are some of the most ferocious fighters i have ever seen yet they hardly have any formal training. Yet their mindset is second to none for out and out aggression.
Thats my two penneth anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad4dboxer
funny you say that about mark Coleman, I seen a match when he fought a former boxer that used kicks on him and stayed out of his range, Coleman was up against the cage scared.
I would go with jeet kune do. Its got alittle bit of everything.
jeet kune do is bruce lee's philosophy of take in all that applies to you and forget the rest
not an artform, just filling ya in
Do you know who the box was?Quote:
Originally Posted by cringer
I was looking at the intro clips by Clinton Woods and I can't help but continuing to think that pound for pound I'll take a boxer in a stand up match over any other disclipline. Take some time to learn a few kicks, a few submissions if it hits the ground, and that to me is one nasty fella.
Thoughts?
You probably saw the end of that fight (assuming you mean the one where he gets kicked in the face, his eyes roll back, and he kind of falls blankly to the canvas) which was like half an hour or more into it, and both guys were completely gassed after going all out. It just boiled down to the other guy having better cardio, and being able to bring the big kicks against him without even having to worry. Coleman was against the fence because he was getting too tired to stand.Quote:
funny you say that about mark Coleman, I seen a match when he fought a former boxer that used kicks on him and stayed out of his range, Coleman was up against the cage scared.
I don't know much about Judo, but if It's what I think it is (quick, stand up grappling focusing primarily on throws, right?) then it would be a GREAT supplement. Last thing you want to do is go jiujitsu on them and pull guard, only to find your face crushed to a pulp by 10 bikers in steel toe boots. If you could perform a quick throw/slam, its a great way to take someone out of a fight...especially if they have no take down defense and are your typical barroom brawlers.
That would have been Coleman's fight with Pete Williams. Pete was not a boxer per se, he was one of Ken Shamrock's Lions Den guys. Just a good all around fighter with good cardio.Quote:
You probably saw the end of that fight (assuming you mean the one where he gets kicked in the face, his eyes roll back, and he kind of falls blankly to the canvas) which was like half an hour or more into it, and both guys were completely gassed after going all out. It just boiled down to the other guy having better cardio, and being able to bring the big kicks against him without even having to worry. Coleman was against the fence because he was getting too tired to stand.
The last clip. Hopefully the link works. The UFC just aint what she used to be, aint what she used to be, aint what she used to be ;D
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...1AF2D888202230
I know thats exactly why I would use it, use what worksQuote:
Originally Posted by raleights
munky you know of any good Judo books or videos that train without the GI?
Yeah, that clip is from the end of an insanely long fight, and Coleman was completely gassed, thats why hes back against the fence and getting pounded.
Hmm...Sherdog has the fight listed as ending at the 13th minute of the 1st round. I could've sworn it was longer than that, but either way, its still just because he was completely gassed.
I love muay thai when I use to take it and I did very well in it. But I soon found out that Muay thai is superior in offense but lacks and successful defense. Watch any Muay thai fighter I will suggest the champions they are hardcore with attacks but lacks a good defense. Boxing or kick boxing is much more sound. I when most of my fights on defense alone cause in a street fight everyone always goes offensive so the person the the strongest arsenal wins. I always thought that was stupid So I will look to counter if anything. Muay thai the stance alone is present a balance problem but none the less the art is deadly I suggest you look deep inside of yourself and find out what fits you.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
mark coleman was worn out cause he didnt have the condtioning of the boxer so he couldnt even beat him when he wasnt tired.
[quote=cringer ]
[quote=Von Milash ]
[quote=cringer ]
[quote=brad4dboxer ]
I cant remeber the boxers name, I saw it in a ufc ko dvd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus
I agree with you on the boxing discpline and learning kicks and take downs, cause a boxer knows how to us range and could fake opponets and then come in with some good hits.
I agree.
I think a big part of that Coleman/Williams fights was that Mark underestimated Pete. Mark was considered unbeatable at that juncture. When Mark couldn't take Pete down to work his ground and pound and the fight was going to have to be fought standing I knew it was trouble for Mark. I doubt it ever crossed Mark's mind during training the concept that he might be forced to trade strikes standing up for most of the fight. I think sherdog is correct at 13 minutes of the first round, b/c that was back when they still had the two 15 minute round fights.
lots of great stuff here. thanks guy.
I think after reading this I've decided to take some boxing. Because they're such skilled strikers and spar a lot. I think Muay Thai guys are tough mofos but it doesn't seem to have the same amount of sweet science in it. (plus the closest guym is abit too far from my) I think if I become a great striker first, I can always add the kicking game on my own in the basement against the heavy bag simply by emulating what I see them do on tape and in books. Plus I like the grat defensive aspect of boxing. The way they can bob and weave and not get hit is great.
Muay Thai :D
The dutch form of Muay Thai is better. They actually work on boxing aspect..ie the likes of ernesto hoost and so on. But in a street fight elbows r deadly weapons. Leg kicks are no jokes, in the ring those guys legs are conditioned, on the street not every1s legs r conditioned to that level, a powerful kick to the thigh will deaden anymans leg on the street and take em off balance or even to their knees.
As someone stated earlier, learning basic takedown defence and basic groundgame is important also.
Arts like Muay Thai etc may not look fancy, but thts cus it gets straight to the point and not none of this fancy crap.
Matt Thornton explains very nicely about Alive Training and why a lot of these traditional martial arts look fancy and deadly but in a real life situation its all a load of bollocks.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=matt+thornton
ninjutsu...a fighting style i'll be loyal to for life...it has bone braking self defense move to aggressive ground fighting skills even swords skills...its a fighting style illegal to some places though i hear...only a few know about the fighting style...if you find a dojo teaching ninjutsu you shouldn't even think twice about joinning...
Interesting. That's part of why I chose boxing to start with. Fights come down to punching. Boxers excel at it and they excel at ducking punches. I've seen footage and live demos of a karate class, and while there's surely more to it than what I'm about to say, repeating a little chop with a "hi'YA!" aint gonna do jack squat in a real situation. It aint about rules and points... it's about what saves your ass. That's why I truly question the practicality of many martial arts. Great in tournaments, but in life.... don't know. Example, my boss is taking soem form of jujitsu... he's showed me a simple maneuver....I tried it on my wife, it didn't work. How many times have you heard a martial artist, while showing you a move say, "you're not supposed to react that way!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Emelianenko
The liveness aspect is a good point. However, in the beginning it's more important to work on simple things like footwork and form, and liveness in the begining would not allow for that. But that's whay great about boxing, IMO, is that sparring is liveness. Liveness is needed eventually, but not right out of the gate, IMO.
BTW, I started with boxing over muay thai because I beleive my western boxing form and technique will be a better foundation of basic striking than Muay tHai.... ie, transition from boxing to MT is more effective than starting with MT. MT guys hands are out, ribs exposed, no bobbing and weaving, etc. But I do admire the kicking ability of MT guys.