After 9 1/2 years floyd compared to other greats...Article..good read

Here's a great article about floyd compared to the other greats at the same point in their career...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2406011

Surprised you like that JonesMayweather. It's an article that hails Floyd greatly, but also says he's still behind many legends of the 90's.

Come to think of it, had Oscar got rid of Tito, his resume would have been better than any 90's fighter? Haha Wow.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

Here's a great article about floyd compared to the other greats at the same point in their career...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2406011

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Good article. And I agree... we are sometimes a little hard on Floyd. That being said, these are the years where it is time to prove himself. He has a deep division in 140-154 to clean out. He needs to do this to put away all doubts.

well roy is my all time great..and the fighter that they mentioned ahead of him..i don't have a problem with..just so long as they don't put wack assed overrated Duran, Hearns, and Chavez ahead of him...

RJJ, TITO, SHANE, PBF, Holyfield are my top favs....

as good as he is I just can't compare him to Roy or SRL yet (or even begin to compare)

if he shows some heart in his upcoming fight with Oscar, and wins.. I'll have no choice but to admit it
until then he's just another talented fighter who plays it safe and doesn't know how to give it his all

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

well roy is my all time great..and the fighter that they mentioned ahead of him..i don't have a problem with..just so long as they don't put wack assed overrated Duran, Hearns, and Chavez ahead of him...

RJJ, TITO, SHANE, PBF, Holyfield are my top favs....

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How can you continue to call Duran, Hearns and Chavez overrated. Have you actually watched significant portions of their career. I'm willing to listen to arguements about Chavez being overrated, he was great but still managed to be overrated. You always through out these jibes about them being "wack" or "overrated" but never back them up. Please explain to me why I should discredit fighters who most educated boxing fans consider to be among the greatest of all time.

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

well roy is my all time great..and the fighter that they mentioned ahead of him..i don't have a problem with..just so long as they don't put wack assed overrated Duran, Hearns, and Chavez ahead of him...

RJJ, TITO, SHANE, PBF, Holyfield are my top favs....

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How can you continue to call Duran, Hearns and Chavez overrated. Have you actually watched significant portions of their career. I'm willing to listen to arguements about Chavez being overrated, he was great but still managed to be overrated. You always through out these jibes about them being "wack" or "overrated" but never back them up. Please explain to me why I should discredit fighters who most educated boxing fans consider to be among the greatest of all time.

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okay my bad i didn't mean to call the hitman wack...sorry about that one...

but duran...he had 116 fights...only 23 of them were title fights...against the good to great competition of his era his record was 19-11....if you have a 116 career fights and only 23 of them are title fights..something's wrong..it means his record was severely padded....when he was 71-1....who cares that was a virtual who's who's of nobodies....cory spinks was 33-0 before he lost to judah.. you know why? because he padded his reocord in his hometown by beating bums just like duran...

i don't care that he moved up in weight...because if PBF gets KO'ed at 147..nobody will say it was because he moved up..or the fact rjj shouldn't have been fighting at LHW....

duran shouldn't have moved up if that was going to be the excuse for him losing..and the fact the SRL lost to him is actually a chink in SRL legacy IMO...

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

well roy is my all time great..and the fighter that they mentioned ahead of him..i don't have a problem with..just so long as they don't put wack assed overrated Duran, Hearns, and Chavez ahead of him...

RJJ, TITO, SHANE, PBF, Holyfield are my top favs....

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How can you continue to call Duran, Hearns and Chavez overrated. Have you actually watched significant portions of their career. I'm willing to listen to arguements about Chavez being overrated, he was great but still managed to be overrated. You always through out these jibes about them being "wack" or "overrated" but never back them up. Please explain to me why I should discredit fighters who most educated boxing fans consider to be among the greatest of all time.

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okay my bad i didn't mean to call the hitman wack...sorry about that one...

but duran...he had 116 fights...only 23 of them were title fights...against the good to great competition of his era his record was 19-11....if you have a 116 career fights and only 23 of them are title fights..something's wrong..it means his record was severely padded....when he was 71-1....who cares that was a virtual who's who's of nobodies....cory spinks was 33-0 before he lost to judah.. you know why? because he padded his reocord in his hometown by beating bums just like duran...

i don't care that he moved up in weight...because if PBF gets KO'ed at 147..nobody will say it was because he moved up..or the fact rjj shouldn't have been fighting at LHW....

duran shouldn't have moved up if that was going to be the excuse for him losing..and the fact the SRL lost to him is actually a chink in SRL legacy IMO...

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See I would agree with you if we looked at everyones career simply by their record. In that respect both Duran and Chavez would be wildly overrated. However, educated boxing fans know when someones career is padded, or when someones record is equally tarnished by carrying on that bit too long. What makes each fighters career considered so great is the great fights they fought, the feats they accomplished in important fights. Duran Leonard, Hagler Hearns, champions at mulitple weights. Our memories and what we're told about fighters are what make them great, not a bunch of numbers.

i don't go by opinions and urban legends..i go by hard facts when stories get passed down through history the truth is distorted each time someone tells it differently...so i use the facts...

to old people from ali's era they will talk about him like he was god...i was born in '80 so i think that rjj is the bet ever...without even looking at any of his fights his wins over more former, future, or current world champs speaks way louder as fact than any word or mouth opinion to me...

liike SAl the Butcher...if he tells the story of judah-PBF he will say it was closer than it actually was...and facts say that chavez-duran had padded records and duran lost 11 times in his fights with good to great fighters...so he's overrated..just because fight tough against the best doesn't mean you're a great...bert cooper knocked holyfield down is he an all-time great?

PBF has time to overtake some legends however i just dont see him overtaking Leonard, Duran, RJJ, Robinson, Chavez, Ali to name a few, they just were of a certain pedigree of class which is above PBF imo, and im a PBF fan.

everytime someone names them have to just... chavez and duran :LMAO: :lolhaha: :lolololol:

I think you are being abit harsh on Duran, he was the only man to beat SRL in his prime and had good competition until he beat Iran Barkley for the middleweight title....after that he was really losing to fighters he would of beaten in his prime.
And as for hearns, why is he overrated? If anything, he is underrated.

A padded record I'll agree with, but when your talking about all those losses, a lot of those were were cause Duran carried on too long. His losses to Camacho, Joppy, Camacho again for example were when he was 50, 47 and 45 respectively. Noone is judging Roberto on these fights, its the ones in his prime that mattered. Ali lost to a lot of guys in the end, but that doesnt diminish his stature as top ten all time.

P.S. I only brought up these fights as there the only ones I can be sure are in your "good fighters" list. If I knew exactly who you were referring to I'm sure many would be for the same reason, well enough to cut the losses down to a respectable level.

Roberto Duran will always be an all time great in mine and many other eyes. The thing that caught me with your comments was that it implied Floyd is already better than him, Hearns (youve withdrawn) and Chavez already. Floyd just hasnt acheived the same as these fighters, although it is obvious that so far his record is a lot less padded and as a reult of this he has a very good chance to EVENTUALLY eclipse all three.

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Originally Posted by The_One77

I think you are being abit harsh on Duran, he was the only man to beat SRL in his prime and had good competition until he beat Iran Barkley for the middleweight title....after that he was really losing to fighters he would of beaten in his prime.
And as for hearns, why is he overrated? If anything, he is underrated.

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I apologized for hearns...yeah he was a great fighter that came up short against the other greats SRL, Hagler...but at least he knocked out the overrated bum-beater-upper Duran.....

I told you Shane didn't fight anyone!!!

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by The_One77

I think you are being abit harsh on Duran, he was the only man to beat SRL in his prime and had good competition until he beat Iran Barkley for the middleweight title....after that he was really losing to fighters he would of beaten in his prime.
And as for hearns, why is he overrated? If anything, he is underrated.

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I apologized for hearns...yeah he was a great fighter that came up short against the other greats SRL, Hagler...but at least he knocked out the overrated bum-beater-upper Duran.....

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Please tell me you havent seen all of Duran's classic fights, because if you have and can still hold this opinion, I dont know what to say.

In case your wondering, I believe Floyd will eclipse these guys in his career. I see him being remembered as an all time great who couldnt beat 1 guy....
































Hatton ;D

i think and hatton and mayweather will have three fights if pbf loses the first one...because if hatton loses they won't fight again...then it will be all time great match up...pep-saddler..although the hatton like fighter got the best in those matchups winning 3 out of 4

Duran was never a bum

Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Jorge Fernando Castro
Sugar Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palamino
Iran Barkley
Davey Moore
Ernesto Marcel
Hiroshi Kobayashi
Guts Ishimatsu


They were all former champions and Duran beat them all, sure he isn't the best of all time and is overrated by some people......but he is certainly an all time great.
Not to mention he gave Marvin Hagler hell and almost scored a victory...this is considering Duran started at Bantamweight.

he had 119 fights and you only named 11? that warrants him to be top 10 all time...that's bullshat...he's overrated...and padded his record...

PBF has already beat 11 good to great fighters and he's only had 36 fights...

judah
mitchell
corley
castillo x2
corrales
manfredy
chavez
hernandez
ramon rios
gatti

yeah, i suppose the trouble is with alot of the great fighters is that so many of them padded their records...
So where would you put Duran in you all time P4P list?

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Originally Posted by The_One77

Duran was never a bum

Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Jorge Fernando Castro
Sugar Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palamino
Iran Barkley
Davey Moore
Ernesto Marcel
Hiroshi Kobayashi
Guts Ishimatsu


They were all former champions and Duran beat them all, sure he isn't the best of all time and is overrated by some people......but he is certainly an all time great.
Not to mention he gave Marvin Hagler hell and almost scored a victory...this is considering Duran started at Bantamweight.

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Thats the point, just because he lost doesnt mean we disregard all this. :coolclick:

And on that last point, remember he started at Bantamweight, and the last Leonard fight, albeit that he lost was for a Super Middleweight Title. Now can you imagine Rafeal Marquez one day being big or good enough to compete with Joe Calzaghe?????

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by The_One77

Duran was never a bum

Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Jorge Fernando Castro
Sugar Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palamino
Iran Barkley
Davey Moore
Ernesto Marcel
Hiroshi Kobayashi
Guts Ishimatsu


They were all former champions and Duran beat them all, sure he isn't the best of all time and is overrated by some people......but he is certainly an all time great.
Not to mention he gave Marvin Hagler hell and almost scored a victory...this is considering Duran started at Bantamweight.

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Thats the point, just because he lost doesnt mean we disregard all this. :coolclick:

And on that last point, remember he started at Bantamweight, and the last Leonard fight, albeit that he lost was for a Super Middleweight Title. Now can you imagine Rafeal Marquez one day being big or good enough to compete with Joe Calzaghe?????

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I don't care where he started...don't move up in weight then expect to get credit when you lose..point is he lost..period..

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Originally Posted by The_One77

yeah, i suppose the trouble is with alot of the great fighters is that so many of them padded their records...
So where would you put Duran in you all time P4P list?

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not in the top 25...if i carefully did my homework he probably wouldn't be top 50

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Originally Posted by The_One77

yeah, i suppose the trouble is with alot of the great fighters is that so many of them padded their records...
So where would you put Duran in you all time P4P list?

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I would mostly agree with Britkid's rankings and have Duran at no. 4, maybe 5, I would probably move Willie Pepp above him.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by The_One77

Duran was never a bum

Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Jorge Fernando Castro
Sugar Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palamino
Iran Barkley
Davey Moore
Ernesto Marcel
Hiroshi Kobayashi
Guts Ishimatsu


They were all former champions and Duran beat them all, sure he isn't the best of all time and is overrated by some people......but he is certainly an all time great.
Not to mention he gave Marvin Hagler hell and almost scored a victory...this is considering Duran started at Bantamweight.

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Thats the point, just because he lost doesnt mean we disregard all this. :coolclick:

And on that last point, remember he started at Bantamweight, and the last Leonard fight, albeit that he lost was for a Super Middleweight Title. Now can you imagine Rafeal Marquez one day being big or good enough to compete with Joe Calzaghe?????

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I don't care where he started...don't move up in weight then expect to get credit when you lose..point is he lost..period..

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Originally Posted by The_One77

yeah, i suppose the trouble is with alot of the great fighters is that so many of them padded their records...
So where would you put Duran in you all time P4P list?

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not in the top 25...if i carefully did my homework he probably wouldn't be top 50

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But he competed most of the way up, he was on the slide and too far up at super middle in the third Leonard fight, bad example on my part I guess.

the trouble here is that one guy just goes with statistics alone and i go with other factors too....
for example:

moving up in weight from being naturally so small
his age, considering he was already 29 when he fought Leonard

i dont think duran had the oppurtunities Floyd had, i mean he had to have over 50 fights just to get a title shot lol..
They fought alot more to survive, the money was needed really. Different circumstances for different fighters..

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Originally Posted by The_One77

the trouble here is that one guy just goes with statistics alone and i go with other factors too....
for example:

moving up in weight from being naturally so small
his age, considering he was already 29 when he fought Leonard

i dont think duran had the oppurtunities Floyd had, i mean he had to have over 50 fights just to get a title shot lol..
They fought alot more to survive, the money was needed really. Different circumstances for different fighters..

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Very similar to the way I look at things, you cant rely on stats for anything in life.

Take for example Barry Bonds in baseball. If someone thirty years from now looked at the stats, he'd be the greatest player of all time. These stats dont take into account he's appaling arm and more importantly, use of steroids.

You have to look at every possible factor in any balanced arguement.

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by The_One77

Duran was never a bum

Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Jorge Fernando Castro
Sugar Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palamino
Iran Barkley
Davey Moore
Ernesto Marcel
Hiroshi Kobayashi
Guts Ishimatsu


They were all former champions and Duran beat them all, sure he isn't the best of all time and is overrated by some people......but he is certainly an all time great.
Not to mention he gave Marvin Hagler hell and almost scored a victory...this is considering Duran started at Bantamweight.

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Thats the point, just because he lost doesnt mean we disregard all this. :coolclick:

And on that last point, remember he started at Bantamweight, and the last Leonard fight, albeit that he lost was for a Super Middleweight Title. Now can you imagine Rafeal Marquez one day being big or good enough to compete with Joe Calzaghe?????

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:coolclick: back

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by The_One77

the trouble here is that one guy just goes with statistics alone and i go with other factors too....
for example:

moving up in weight from being naturally so small
his age, considering he was already 29 when he fought Leonard

i dont think duran had the oppurtunities Floyd had, i mean he had to have over 50 fights just to get a title shot lol..
They fought alot more to survive, the money was needed really. Different circumstances for different fighters..

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Very similar to the way I look at things, you cant rely on stats for anything in life.

Take for example Barry Bonds in baseball. If someone thirty years from now looked at the stats, he'd be the greatest player of all time. These stats dont take into account he's appaling arm and more importantly, use of steroids.

You have to look at every possible factor in any balanced arguement.

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so you have proof that bonds took steroids? if not don't accuse him...


and he just couldn't be the best based off the fact that he's hit at least 40 homeruns every year in the league and when he hit 73 it was all his knowledge, power, and being able to see the ball better than anyone else couldn't be that shat could it? he must have taken steroids?

and i don't care how many drugs you take..that's not what makes contact with the ball..he still has to hit it..and he doesn't have as many strikeouts as ruth or mcgwire because they were underskilled bruts that swung at everything..barry bonds can actually hit the ball that's why even now in a slump they still walk him..and pujols hits 20 homeruns already and they still pitch to him...

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by The_One77

the trouble here is that one guy just goes with statistics alone and i go with other factors too....
for example:

moving up in weight from being naturally so small
his age, considering he was already 29 when he fought Leonard

i dont think duran had the oppurtunities Floyd had, i mean he had to have over 50 fights just to get a title shot lol..
They fought alot more to survive, the money was needed really. Different circumstances for different fighters..

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Very similar to the way I look at things, you cant rely on stats for anything in life.

Take for example Barry Bonds in baseball. If someone thirty years from now looked at the stats, he'd be the greatest player of all time. These stats dont take into account he's appaling arm and more importantly, use of steroids.

You have to look at every possible factor in any balanced arguement.

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so you have proof that bonds took steroids? if not don't accuse him...


and he just couldn't be the best based off the fact that he's hit at least 40 homeruns every year in the league and when he hit 73 it was all his knowledge, power, and being able to see the ball better than anyone else couldn't be that shat could it? he must have taken steroids?

and i don't care how many drugs you take..that's not what makes contact with the ball..he still has to hit it..and he doesn't have as many strikeouts as ruth or mcgwire because they were underskilled bruts that swung at everything..barry bonds can actually hit the ball that's why even now in a slump they still walk him..and pujols hits 20 homeruns already and they still pitch to him...

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Dude Bonds took steriods. So did McGuire, Canseco, and many others. You have got to be a fool to think they didn't. Can you prove it with concrete physical evidence??? No, but if you know anything about what steriods do you can see the effects plain as day.

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Originally Posted by luvfightgame

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

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Originally Posted by The_One77

the trouble here is that one guy just goes with statistics alone and i go with other factors too....
for example:

moving up in weight from being naturally so small
his age, considering he was already 29 when he fought Leonard

i dont think duran had the oppurtunities Floyd had, i mean he had to have over 50 fights just to get a title shot lol..
They fought alot more to survive, the money was needed really. Different circumstances for different fighters..

---

Very similar to the way I look at things, you cant rely on stats for anything in life.

Take for example Barry Bonds in baseball. If someone thirty years from now looked at the stats, he'd be the greatest player of all time. These stats dont take into account he's appaling arm and more importantly, use of steroids.

You have to look at every possible factor in any balanced arguement.

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so you have proof that bonds took steroids? if not don't accuse him...


and he just couldn't be the best based off the fact that he's hit at least 40 homeruns every year in the league and when he hit 73 it was all his knowledge, power, and being able to see the ball better than anyone else couldn't be that shat could it? he must have taken steroids?

and i don't care how many drugs you take..that's not what makes contact with the ball..he still has to hit it..and he doesn't have as many strikeouts as ruth or mcgwire because they were underskilled bruts that swung at everything..barry bonds can actually hit the ball that's why even now in a slump they still walk him..and pujols hits 20 homeruns already and they still pitch to him...

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Dude Bonds took steriods. So did McGuire, Canseco, and many others. You have got to be a fool to think they didn't. Can you prove it with concrete physical evidence??? No, but if you know anything about what steriods do you can see the effects plain as day.

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sure you can see them because he's about to break those records...when his was hitting 40 homers every year since he's been in the league and 300+ bat avg...that combined with getting older..you do know that your metabolism slows as you get older? so of course he will gain weight a get bigger hence adding power...in ten years people will say a-rod is taking steroids...

why the fuck would bonds need steroids if he's been hitting at least 40 homers every year since he's been in the league?