larry holmes---was he the greatest?

he says he was--and he has every right to think so--48-0. says it all. he beat cooney,shavers and norton--3 big names--and the biggest name ali--however a 39 yr old, prescription drug, early stage of parkinsons--it still took larry --11 rounds to put him away--

larry holmes was 1 of the greatest , but how would he far against the greats

vs prime tyson--tyson ko 10
vs ali--ali UD
vs foreman--could go either way
vs frazier--frazier ko 12
vs marciano--holmes tko 11---rocky's the man--but holmes would be 2 much (they would prob stop the fights on cuts)
vs tunney---holmes ud 12
vs dempsey--holmes ko 12
vs louis--holmes ud 12
vs patterson--holmes ko9

just an opinion-

so larry u r one of the greatest---just not the greatest

No.

TO LATE in the night to analyze this one but I strongly disagree with the Foreman, Louis,Prime Tyson,Frazier,Marciano and Ali outcomes..

Greatest........ no.
Biggest whiner........ yes.

He was a racist pig, But he has to be mentioned as one of the best to hold the heavyweight title. Beating Cooney and a old frail Ali was nothing special. And then he lost to a much smaller Spinks.

No way he beats The Bomber in his prime.....Or an prime Ali the rest could go either way

Larry holmes was a bum, most footage you see of him his getting whipped and going down like a bag of spuds,greatest of all time? stop smoking crack and start getting interested in boxing, larry holmes was a good fighter but he got beat too many times too be mentioned on the same page with some of them fighters. ???

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Originally Posted by buwit

Larry holmes was a bum, most footage you see of him his getting whipped and going down like a bag of spuds,greatest of all time? stop smoking crack and start getting interested in boxing, larry holmes was a good fighter but he got beat too many times too be mentioned on the same page with some of them fighters. ???

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:cwm36: dont know what that tirade was about but OK...Larry was far from a bum....Most of the abuse you refer to is to the Larry making a comeback not the prime Larry that had that piston jab that made him great....Larry a top 5 Heavy of all time with out question...Greatest ever no but a bum......That should not even be in the same sentence when you mention Larry and boxing

Definitely not the greatest - and definitely not a bum!!!

A very very good boxer-puncher with a great jab and a rock hard chin.

Prime Holmes was quick, strong and technically slick. I think he may have come up a bit short against the Ali, Louis etc.

Prime Tyson v prime Holmes would be a great fight !!

He was very good, however i think prime tyson, ali, frazier, marciano, foreman, louis all turn him over.

stop comparing joe louis he is too friggin small hed lose to many lighty heavies and cruizers your comparing a guy from way too many years ago, yes hes a great but in heads p matches hed lose huge

I put holmes behind 4 guys all time in the HW div..Johnson, Ali, Louis, Foreman....

I'm not certain he was the greatest, but he couldn't be too far behind.

He was, and still is, the most underappreciated heavyweight champ ever. The media never gave this guy full props, but his greatness was undenyably. The ultimate face slap being when he was introduced first in the Cooney fight, although he was the defending champion.

Just before holmes got knocked out by tyson....he was on his toes and was jabbing quite well...then just stopped. Prime holmes would keep this up and outbox tyson. Tyson had trouble at this point of the fight but holmes couldnt keep it going. BUT i reckon holmes is a fuckwit ;D

A prime Holmes would've outboxed Tyson for 12 rds like he was doing at the start of that 4th rd. He was bouncing on his feet and hitting Mike with jabs, even the crowd was getting into it. But at his age for that fight, he tired quickly.

But a prime Holmes beats Tyson easily.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

A prime Holmes would've outboxed Tyson for 12 rds like he was doing at the start of that 4th rd. He was bouncing on his feet and hitting Mike with jabs, even the crowd was getting into it. But at his age for that fight, he tired quickly.

But a prime Holmes beats Tyson easily.

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Beats Tyson Easily!!!!Seriously doubting that one ::**

How many times did you see Holmes fight? He wasnt stupid like most of Mike's early opponents, standing there to be KO'd. Holmes had a great jab and he stood 6'2".

Beats Tyson easily.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

How many times did you see Holmes fight? He wasnt stupid like most of Mike's early opponents, standing there to be KO'd. Holmes  had a great jab and he stood 6'2".

Beats Tyson easily.

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Obviously you havent seen many Tyson Fights!!!!!Were not talking about the Tyson who lost to Williams,Lewis and McBride... 6'2 is perfect for Mike, his head movement and lateral movement was phenomenal he wouls slip and negate the jab and rip those signature hooks to the body then to the head..

Until he went corrupt and Jaded NO ONE and I mean NO ONE in heavyweight boxing history had the combonation of blinding handspeed and explosive power he possesed and you know what I mean!!!! you can see as soon as Don King leached on and influenced his career and he parted ways with rooney, atlas he went from Beautiful Welterweight style combo's to no head movement always trying to land the big one....Holmes would never have run into such a Buzz saw as A Young Mike Tyson

Dude, I'm 32. I've seen almost all of Holmes' prime career fights and I saw all of Tyson's. We garee that Mike went downhhill when he left Rooney, no doubt. But Holmes is better than anyone Moike has ever faced, includiing prime Evander and Lennox. He would outbox and frustrate Tyson, and beat him, easily.

Holmes ain't the greatest, Ali ain't the greatest.

1. Louis
2. Marciano

Weak era's my ass, they fought whoever were out there and beat them. And I don't think I'd be calling Walcott and Charles nobodies.

Foreman would have destroyed Holmes

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Originally Posted by undefeated

he says he was--and he has every right to think so--48-0. says it all. he beat cooney,shavers and norton--3 big names--and the biggest name ali--however a 39 yr old, prescription drug, early stage of parkinsons--it still took larry --11 rounds to put him away--

larry holmes was 1 of the greatest , but how would he far against the greats

vs prime tyson--tyson ko 10
vs ali--ali UD
vs foreman--could go either way
vs frazier--frazier ko 12
vs marciano--holmes tko 11---rocky's the man--but holmes would be 2 much (they would prob stop the fights on cuts)
vs tunney---holmes ud 12
vs dempsey--holmes ko 12
vs louis--holmes ud 12
vs patterson--holmes ko9

just an opinion-

so larry u r one of the greatest---just not the greatest

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that record is an abberition......Don King was padding that record with bums and washed up fighters in an attempt to match and pass Marciano's record......so then King sets up the fight that would give Holmes a 49-0 record against a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT in Michael Spinks who hadn't fought in a year......didn't happen....couldn't get the record even with hand picked opponents.......not the greatest but maybe in the Top 10-15.......

Yeah talk about a WEAK era...I mean Renoldo Snipes?

Tyson would have whipped him in Holmes' prime
Foreman would have whipped him
Norton would have beat him in a rematch

Holmes was one of those guys who had no class...drop kicking Trevor Berbick...great wonderful, brings lots of fans out

Young Holmes beats Tyson.

Say what you will, but reality is Tyson NEVER beat a great or even very good HW.

Everytime he fought someone in the class of Holmes he got his @$$ whooped.






Oh, and Foreman would beat all their @$$es.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

Dude, I'm 32. I've seen almost all of Holmes' prime career fights and I saw all of Tyson's. We garee that Mike went downhhill when he left Rooney, no doubt. But Holmes is better than anyone Moike has ever faced, includiing prime Evander and Lennox. He would outbox and frustrate Tyson, and beat him, easily.

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Yeah well Holmes never fought anyone like Mike in his Prime!!! dude Holmes was a big fish swimming in a small pond period!!!! Larry was champ of a Heavyweight division that was just about as pathetic as it is today!!!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

Dude, I'm 32. I've seen almost all of Holmes' prime career fights and I saw all of Tyson's. We garee that Mike went downhhill when he left Rooney, no doubt. But Holmes is better than anyone Moike has ever faced, includiing prime Evander and Lennox. He would outbox and frustrate Tyson, and beat him, easily.

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I hate Lennox and I woulsd have to say he would Beat Larry and Dont go there with Evander either!!!!Evander had to much toughness and way to much Heart for Larry Oh and the boy could box 2!!! I would say even Bowe would have disposed of Larry

He was one of the greatest, but everyone agrees that Ali in his prime is the greatest of all time!

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Originally Posted by eugepang

He was one of the greatest, but everyone agrees that Ali in his prime is the greatest of all time!

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Nope, not everyone...Ali is 3rd.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by eugepang

He was one of the greatest, but everyone agrees that Ali in his prime is the greatest of all time!

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Nope, not everyone...Ali is 3rd.

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Who was better?

It's weird coz I would normally put Holmes behind Ali and Louis in 3rd, but then again I think Tyson would've stopped him in their primes!! Remember the round where Witherspoon had holmes all over the place, well imagine if that was Tyson, Holmes would not've made the bell!!


I think there at least 15 heavyweight's from the past that could have a case for being top 10

..... but certainly not anyone fighting at the moment.




























Chorus howls of disaproval from Klitschkofan and Rahman.

;D

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Originally Posted by X

..... but certainly not anyone fighting at the moment.




























Chorus howls of disaproval from Klitschkofan and Rahman.

;D

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Lol ;D - Nobody from now would get on the "Greatest" list, but I'd give Vit Klitchko a good chance against a lot of the previous greats - not coz I think he is/was great coz I don't, but could you honestly see Floyd patterson (RIP) beaing him.

'Great' and 'Best' are very different, something Britkid takks about a fair bit. I.e James Buster Douglas on the night he beat Tyson ,was probabaly one of the "Best" heavyweights in history, but he doesn't even come into the radar when talking about "Greatests"

Was he the greatest... No; I have him #5 at heavyweight:

20: Riddick Bowe
19: Floyd Patterson
18: Max Schmeling
17: Ezzard Charles
16: Sammy Langford
15: Harry Wills
14: James Corbett
13: Sonny Liston
12: Joe Frazier
11: Mike Tyson
10: Lennox Lewis
9 James Jeffries
8: Jack Dempsey
7: Rocky Marciano
6: Evander Holyfield
5: Larry Holmes
4: Jack Johnson
3: George Foreman
2: Joe Louis
1: Muhammad Ali

I have him #42 in the all time list: (#) in comparsion to the last time I done the list (This list was finished 26/3/2006)

52 Ike Williams (N/C)
51 Mike McCallum (+2)
50 Battling Nelson (-7)
49 Felix Trinidad (N/C)
48 Nicola Loche (+2)
47 Evander Holyfield (+1)
46 Wilfred Benetiz (-1)
45 Khoasio Galaxy (+2)
44 Jose Napoles (N/C)
43 Michael Spinks (+3)
42 Larry Holmes (N/C)
41 Terry McGovern (-3)
40 Kid Gavilan (-3)
39 Azumah Nelson (+2)
38 Bernard Hopkins (+1)
37 Jack Johnson (-1)
36 Ricardo Lopez (-1)
35 Roy Jones (-1)
34 George Foreman (-1)
33 Joe Gans (-1)
32 Ruben Olivares (-2)

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Holmes ain't the greatest, Ali ain't the greatest.

1. Louis
2. Marciano

Weak era's my a**, they fought whoever were out there and beat them. And I don't think I'd be calling Walcott and Charles nobodies.

Foreman would have destroyed Holmes

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Lyle my man, I have to disagree with you on Holmes vs. Foreman, Holmes had the best jab that I have ever seen, better than Louis, better than Liston and better than Ali, Foreman thought he had trouble with slick N.Philly native Jimmy Young, HOLMES WOULD HAVE GIVEN FOREMAN A SHAVE AND A HAIRCUT PRIOR TO K.O HIM .

I would'nt say he was the greatest Heavyweight champ, but top 10 all-time heavy, maybe top 5, he was that good.

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by eugepang

He was one of the greatest, but everyone agrees that Ali in his prime is the greatest of all time!

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Nope, not everyone...Ali is 3rd.

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Who was better?

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Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. No it's not because Joe was in the Army and supported his country and no it's not because Rocky was white.

Joe 25 successful title defenses and looked BRILLIANT in those defenses too!
Rocky 49-0-0 and like Julio Cesar Chavez could win coming from behind via KO.

Ali is considered #1 because he fought and beat other big names that everyone recognizes and because he was a BLATANT self promoter...I'm the greatest, I must be the greatest...Pardon me for asking but isn't humility a part of islam? I mean his wife couldn't dress in western clothes but he could yell and hoot and holler like an idiot. Don't get me wrong he had skill but get a grip guys he's not THE GREATEST

Could Snipes jab? Could Shavers? Foreman wasn't bothered by Norton's jab, why would Holmes' bother him? All George needed was one shot and if...I mean WHEN he hurt Larry it would be all over no one survived once Foreman hurt them

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by eugepang

He was one of the greatest, but everyone agrees that Ali in his prime is the greatest of all time!

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Nope, not everyone...Ali is 3rd.

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Who was better?

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Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano. No it's not because Joe was in the Army and supported his country and no it's not because Rocky was white.

Joe 25 successful title defenses and looked BRILLIANT in those defenses too!
Rocky 49-0-0 and like Julio Cesar Chavez could win coming from behind via KO.

Ali is considered #1 because he fought and beat other big names that everyone recognizes and because he was a BLATANT self promoter...I'm the greatest, I must be the greatest...Pardon me for asking but isn't humility a part of islam? I mean his wife couldn't dress in western clothes but he could yell and hoot and holler like an idiot. Don't get me wrong he had skill but get a grip guys he's not THE GREATEST

Could Snipes jab? Could Shavers? Foreman wasn't bothered by Norton's jab, why would Holmes' bother him? All George needed was one shot and if...I mean WHEN he hurt Larry it would be all over no one survived once Foreman hurt them

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Norton's jab wasn't even in the same league as Holmes, Snipes was'nt a very good boxer and Shavers did'nt know what a jab was, Holmes was a crafty boxer/puncher and Foreman would have to hurt Holmes first, and a prime Holmes were talking about against a prime Foreman who tired after 4 rds, and Holmes had a very good chin.

Snipes and Shavers BOTH floored Wittle Warry.

Holmes might have been crafty but if Cooney could land on him and Shavers and Snipes then Foreman would rock his ass

Yeah he got dropped by both Snipes and Shavers, ...but he got up and K.O. both of them, Foreman got knocked down by Young, so IF young would be able to hurt Foreman,.. Holmes would finish the job.

Yeah but Lyle knocked him down too and he came back to KO him...Foreman had a better beard than Holmes

Holmes cleaned out a division that was just as strong as the one Louis/Marciano/Tyson did. Its true he didn't have a great HW to fight but he was a phenom of a pure boxer who dominated for a long time. Plus the Spinks fights are always viewed as a one sided win for Mike. Those fights were really close and the second fight was widely considered a terrible decision. So the fact that he fought two very close fights with one of top 3 cruisers of all time at the age of 35 isn't that much of a slight. Much like Louis and Marciano you can't blame Holmes for not having a great div to fight in, but like the other two you have to praise him for cleaning it out and reigning for so long. I put the guy behind Jack Johnson, Ali, Louis and Foreman as far as ATG scale.