Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Leonard!!!

By John Hively (photo by Richie Maldonado)

Many months ago it was reported that Floyd “Pretty Boy” Mayweather had bragged to Sugar Ray Leonard that if the two had ever met in the squared circle during their primes Leonard would have been a sure loser. Trash talking Floyd must have imbibed way too much of some stimulating elixir to have reached such heights of delusional madness. Had the two ever engaged in ring combat during their respective primes, it is likely that Leonard would have beaten Mayweather silly and knocked him out in the process.

There are a few categories of pugilistic merit that a prime Leonard and today’s Mayweather share. For example, Leonard was as fundamentally sound in the science of boxing as Mayweather, more or less. Sugar Ray was arguably as fast of hand and foot as Floyd, but it is at this point where the skills and experience of the two can be distinguished much more clearly, and Sugar Ray appears to have all of the advantages.

Leonard was the harder puncher of the two and by more than a fair margin. The evidence is in the number of higher quality boxers the great Leonard stopped during his legendary career, especially when compared to the more modest accomplishments of the trash talking—and carefully managed—Mayweather.

From 1978 to 1981, Sugar Ray fought in an era when the welterweight division was at one of its historical peaks in terms of fistic talent, featuring several great boxers at or near their primes: Thomas Hearns, Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran and Pepino Cuevas. With the exception of Cuevas whom he did not fight, Leonard defeated all of them convincingly. All of these fighters would likely make most lists of the top fifty welterweights of all time. It’s difficult to believe that a carefully managed pugilist like Mayweather would have faired as well against them as did Leonard.

In Leonard’s welterweight days, Thomas “Hitman” Hearns was a pure fighting machine. Standing six foot one inches tall, the Hitman possessed considerable height advantages over his opponents. He was a highly skilled boxer with two extremely quick hands that were both loaded with sleep inducing dynamite. His fists were so swift and powerful that even the iron jawed Cuevas and the steel chinned Duran fell before the Hitman’s thunderous barrages in less than two rounds each. Leonard the Great rallied to gun down the Hitman in the fourteenth round of a scintillating contest. Given what he has shown thus far in his career, it is difficult to imagine that Pretty Boy could have defeated such a formidable opponent as Hearns, much less last the distance. Edge: Leonard

From 1978 to 1980, Roberto “Hands of Stone” Duran was a great welterweight. After giving up the lightweight title, in addition to several other pugilists, Duran ran roughshod over former champion Carlos Palomino. Duran then won the welterweight title when he handed Leonard the only defeat he was ever to suffer during his prime years in their historic clash in Montreal.

In their second confrontation in New Orleans, Leonard rolled to a close, but clear, lead, before compelling the ferocious Panamanian to quit during the eighth round. It was only the second loss of Duran’s legendary career.

A vicious puncher and an outstanding boxer at his peak, the prime Panamanian tiger would have overwhelmed a peak Mayweather right from the beginning as a lightweight or as a welterweight. Pretty Boy would have been hard pressed to survive the distance against the controlled, but furious, assaults of this all time great, and nobody would have called him “pretty” at the end of the battle. Edge: Leonard

Wilfred Benitez was a brilliant boxer with a fair punch at welterweight. He was adept at avoiding the blows of his adversaries and then countering them at will. Benitez won his first world title before most people attend their senior prom. At the age of seventeen, the young wizard of the ring out-thought and out-fought the great Antonio Cervantes to win the junior welterweight title. He then moved up in weight to capture the welterweight belt from the highly competent Carlos Palomino. Sugar Ray handed the great Benitez his first defeat to win the welterweight title, and he did it by stoppage!

In terms of skill, any battle between Floyd and Benitez would have rated a toss-up, but in terms of who they defeated it is possible to give the advantage to Benitez because of his victories over Cervantes and Roberto Duran. Edge: Leonard

Pepino Cuevas was a tremendous left-hooker. Bones broke and flesh tore apart when he landed that left hook of thunder. After winning his WBA welterweight title by a second round kayo over capable Angel Espada, the ultra-left-hooker defended it eleven times, ten by kayo; And then Tommy Hearns ruined him for the remainder of his career when he blew Pepino away in two heats. For all of his greatness, it is highly unlikely a prime Cuevas could have defeated a peak Sugar Ray.

On the other hand, in a clash against Pretty Boy, a prime Cuevas would come forward, and if Jose Luis Castillo proved effective in the first of his two fights against Mayweather, it’s a sure bet that Pepino would do just as well, and most probably better. Until we’re sure just how much punishment Mayweather is willing to take, and what adjustments he can make during a fight in which he is hard pressed and hurt, it would be difficult to pick him as a likely winner over the great left-hooker of yesteryear—not just yet anyway. Edge: Leonard

All of which brings us to the main problem in evaluating the greatness of Mayweather. Either because he has fought in weight divisions that were devoid of truly great fighters, or because he has been a carefully managed boxer, Floyd has yet to defeat any pugilist that might eventually prove to be an all-time great.

Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales, Jesus Chavez and Zab Judah are arguably the best fighters Floyd has fought. They are very talented gladiators, and there are no questions about their high level skills, yet none of them rate close to Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Benitez and perhaps Cuevas in abilities. Corrales was suffering from weight and legal problems and was an easy mark for Pretty Boy. Castillo took Floyd to the wire in their first encounter, and some people thought Jose deserved the decision. In their rematch, Mayweather won by a fair margin. Pretty Boy also beat Chavez by a comfortable edge.

Zab Judah is the best welterweight Mayweather has encountered just yet. Zab’s heart and jaw aren’t the best, and sometimes his mind isn’t even on the fight at hand, as evidenced by his dismal performance when heavy underdog Carlos Baldomir out-hustled the then champion.

Judah is a good fighter, and certainly of championship caliber, that is, of course, when a great warrior isn’t the title holder standing in his way. Kostya Tszyu bounced Zab off the canvas as if he were a rubber ball a few years ago, and put an end to his title aspirations in less than two rounds, which is something Pretty Boy could not do.

Did anybody notice that Mayweather never fought Kostya Tszyu? The Russian Assassin possessed a hammer for a right fist, and a war between the two might have made for a great fight, but such a fistic endeavor would have been exceedingly dangerous for the American.

When taking an opponent seriously, Tszyu possessed an uncanny ability to make minor adjustments to his game during a fight and ensure victory against all comers for seven long years. Ring combat between the two would have been a chess match, and it’s easy to envision a Tszyu win by kayo or perhaps a Mayweather triumph via close decision.

Should Floyd climb into the ring against the past-his-prime Oscar De La Hoya, we might have a better idea as to his true class. Like Leonard, Oscar fought as a welterweight when the division was at a fairly high peak in terms of fistic talent. However, it wasn’t nearly as great of an era as during the years when Leonard fought in the division, but it was reasonably close. Although Oscar had the talent to be the next Sugar Ray Leonard, the difference is that Leonard reigned supreme over a stronger division, but with un-avenged losses to Felix Trinidad and Shane Mosley, De La Hoya did not dominate his somewhat lesser era. That’s a big difference between Ray and Oscar.

If Oscar and Floyd duke it out, Pretty Boy had better win by a comfortable margin if he really wants to be considered as an all time great. It’s not all together clear that Floyd would defeat the speedy and harder hitting De La Hoya. There is significant risk involved for both fighters, and risk is something that Mayweather does not appear to relish.

It isn’t likely that Pretty Boy will be able to match the accomplishments of Sugar Ray, even if he had the desire to do so. The welterweights of today aren’t a bad bunch of fighters at all, but there doesn’t appear to be a great pugilist in the bunch. Don’t look for Floyd to go up in weight to challenge Jermain Taylor for the middleweight title, or to demand a match with the light heavyweight champion, Antonio Tarver. Those feats are reserved for ultra-talented legendary fighters, guys like Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Sugar Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard.

Given that Sugar Ray fought and defeated the greatest fighters of a great era, while Floyd has been a carefully managed boxer in a significantly lesser period, it shouldn’t be too difficult to determine that Leonard would have prevailed in any battle against Mayweather should those two have ever had the opportunity to duke it out while in their respective primes.

I think this article is too biased for Sugar ray. although I do agree that had the two met, leonard would have came out on top.

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

sugar all the way, flyod wouldn't beat him even if they fought every month

Ray Leonard, well mate if you think Mayweather beats leonard on points your underating SRL and overating PBF.

Mayweather is just a trash talker. He couldn't even KO Judah. Enough said.

sugar ray wins this bout 9 times out of 10.

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Originally Posted by barbaro

sugar ray wins this bout 9 times out of 10.

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barbaro I'll do you one better, 10 out of 10

Leonard was a cocky jerk too. IF PBF did indeed say this, then I can only guess it is to get some kind of minute revenge for SRL beating on his Pop so many years ago. Had Leonard met Junior instead of Senior, the outcome would of been the same though. A Maywhether gettin his ass whipped, badly.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

Leonard has already proven his worth... we are still left to speculate when it comes to Mayweather. For that reason alone, I have to go with Leonard.

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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Also lost to 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler, yeah that's right because we all know Hearns and Marvin were robbed.)

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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Also lost to 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler, yeah that's right because we all know Hearns and Marvin were robbed.)

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Smashcrusher Hearns was knocked out so you must be talking about the second fight when they were beyond their primes. And he made Duran quit in the ring in their second fight. Don't quite understand what you mean.

if they fought at welterweight SRL all the way. Leonard beat Hearns and Benitez at welterweight both of whom in my opinion would have beaten PBF. Leonard would find a way to win against mayweather.

In the great words of Kevin Rooney Leonard beats him everyday of the week and twice on sunday.

Leonard would win a shutout.

Leonard I dont think and explanation is neccessary. his carrers speaks for itself.

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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When did Leonard fight Davey Moore? After DURAN DESTROYED HIM?! ^-^

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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When did Leonard fight Davey Moore? After DURAN DESTROYED HIM?! ^-^

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whats ur point

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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When did Leonard fight Davey Moore? After DURAN DESTROYED HIM?! ^-^

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whats ur point

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Duran was a greater fighter. He lost the 2nd and boring 3rd fight. But won the one that counted, the one that was actually a FIGHT. He also did better against Hagler than both Hearns and Leonard. Don't spout nonsense about SRL beatin Hagler. He ran and got a gift decision. But he and Duran would both stop PBF.

Duran lost the fight that counted. And that was the rematch ;) And you say Duran did better against Hagler then Leonard.

Who did better against Hearns? ;D

SRL was bigger and stronger than Mayweather but Floyd is a better techinical fighter...
imo a prime Duran would beat Floyd at WW, he would of crowded him like Castillo did

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Originally Posted by Starr

Who did better against Hearns? ;D

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yeah, totally outgunned
that right hand bounced off Duran's chin so hard, it looked like it literally broke his jaw
Poor Duran, he looked like 50 years old :'(

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Originally Posted by Starr

Duran lost the fight that counted. And that was the rematch ;) And you say Duran did better against Hagler then Leonard.

Who did better against Hearns? ;D

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Starr I never knew you were such a huge SRL fan. I'm a lil disapointed. Yeah, like all rivals each beat fighters the other could not and so on. The Rematch was not the one that counted the most IMO, that was the first one. And Duran was not beaten up or hurt in the rematch, far from it, he was just frustrated and embarassed. He still shouldn't of quit like that, but I feel he redeemed himself in later fights, see the Moore and Barkley wins.

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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CC. He lost the Hagler fight, plain and simple.

Quote:Don’t look for Floyd to go up in weight to challenge Jermain Taylor for the middleweight title, or to demand a match with the light heavyweight champion, Antonio Tarver. Those feats are reserved for ultra-talented legendary fighters, guys like Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Sugar Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard.


WTF is this moron taling about, lil floyd challenging a light heavy weight champion?, just for his sheer stupidity he deserves to be shot.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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did u just start watching boxing, coz the paper champion thing is just soo 90s. with so many alphabet titles, almost everyone is a paper champion unless you are the undisputed champion. Heck 2 of floyds belts came from beating paper champions so why do we acknowledge him as a 3 weight champion. he beat gatti for the WBC title when Ricky hatton was the recognized champion and how he became the IBF welterweight champion is the most bizzare championship claim ever in history of boxing. so with all this paper champion talk half the fighters today shouldn't even be acknowledged as champions and legends like roy jones would not have the title heavyweight champion of the world on their resume. when you fight in weight classes above your natural ones, you are giving away many of your advantages (such as speed, power, reach and size) and what carries you is your skill and will coz the bigger guyz can take your punch better and hit a lot harder, therefore any alright fighter has a good chance to beat you thats is why not every fighter can jump weight class. Morales who is one ofmy favorite fighter couldn't cope with it and got wiped out by Raheem, ppl will say that raheem's style was the factor yes it was but morales fought slick boxers b4 and dominated them. Leonard had talent and fought and beat the best of his era. he never got dominated in his prime, the first duran fight was also very close. I like hagler arguably the best middleweight ever but he never left his domain (middleweight division). sugar ray at least moved up for bigger challenges. People always say there is no way that hagler lost that fight, I believe HAgler didn't dominate to warrant that comment. He gave away the early rounds to leonard, and some of the later rounds were close the fight could have gone either way. Also people forget that Hagler was the #1 P4P fighter in the world at that time and leonard was coming with a detached retina and one fight in 5 yrs to fight hagler, I don't know any fighter today who is capable of pulling that off with such considerable risk. give credit where credit is due.

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

---

olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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did u just start watching boxing, coz the paper champion thing is just soo 90s. with so many alphabet titles, almost everyone is a paper champion unless you are the undisputed champion. Heck 2 of floyds belts came from beating paper champions so why do we acknowledge him as a 3 weight champion. he beat gatti for the WBC title when Ricky hatton was the recognized champion and how he became the IBF welterweight champion is the most bizzare championship claim ever in history of boxing. so with all this paper champion talk half the fighters today shouldn't even be acknowledged as champions and legends like roy jones would not have the title heavyweight champion of the world on their resume. when you fight in weight classes above your natural ones, you are giving away many of your advantages (such as speed, power, reach and size) and what carries you is your skill and will coz the bigger guyz can take your punch better and hit a lot harder, therefore any alright fighter has a good chance to beat you thats is why not every fighter can jump weight class. Morales who is one ofmy favorite fighter couldn't cope with it and got wiped out by Raheem, ppl will say that raheem's style was the factor yes it was but morales fought slick boxers b4 and dominated them. Leonard had talent and fought and beat the best of his era. he never got dominated in his prime, the first duran fight was also very close. I like hagler arguably the best middleweight ever but he never left his domain (middleweight division). sugar ray at least moved up for bigger challenges. People always say there is no way that hagler lost that fight, I believe HAgler didn't dominate to warrant that comment. He gave away the early rounds to leonard, and some of the later rounds were close the fight could have gone either way. Also people forget that Hagler was the #1 P4P fighter in the world at that time and leonard was coming with a detached retina and one fight in 5 yrs to fight hagler, I don't know any fighter today who is capable of pulling that off with such considerable risk. give credit where credit is due.

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Clicked you mate, theres no way Leonard was overated, he was one of the best welterweights ever, top couple, floyd would be lucky to make it into the top 20 atm.

As far as the article goes I don't think you can compare there careers yet. Sugar Ray is done and retired and PBF is still going. Now lets say PBF fights the likes of Margarito, Hatton, Oscar, Cotto, and maybe even Mosley and beats them all. Now I would have to say is resume would pretty damn good then, maybe even just as good as Leonards. I don't think just because Sugar Ray beat Hearns and everyone back then that you can say he would destoy PBF. Styles make fights. I'm not saying Sugar Ray wouldn't win but honestly I think it would have been a really interesting fight. I don't think either one would have blown each other out.

As soon as Mayweather fights an elite boxer then you can ask that question. 1 & 1 with Castillo aint going to cut it and that ancient fight with a relatively mentally ill Corralles wont cut it either.

This would be a close fight but I'd give a slight edge to Leonard. The fact is, there isn't a highly skilled superstar boxer of any era that could be shut out or schooled by anyone, even other greats. Knocked out, of course, but not shut out. Anyone thinking one would easily beat the other is totally off base.

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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did u just start watching boxing, coz the paper champion thing is just soo 90s. with so many alphabet titles, almost everyone is a paper champion unless you are the undisputed champion. Heck 2 of floyds belts came from beating paper champions so why do we acknowledge him as a 3 weight champion. he beat gatti for the WBC title when Ricky hatton was the recognized champion and how he became the IBF welterweight champion is the most bizzare championship claim ever in history of boxing. so with all this paper champion talk half the fighters today shouldn't even be acknowledged as champions and legends like roy jones would not have the title heavyweight champion of the world on their resume. when you fight in weight classes above your natural ones, you are giving away many of your advantages (such as speed, power, reach and size) and what carries you is your skill and will coz the bigger guyz can take your punch better and hit a lot harder, therefore any alright fighter has a good chance to beat you thats is why not every fighter can jump weight class. Morales who is one ofmy favorite fighter couldn't cope with it and got wiped out by Raheem, ppl will say that raheem's style was the factor yes it was but morales fought slick boxers b4 and dominated them. Leonard had talent and fought and beat the best of his era. he never got dominated in his prime, the first duran fight was also very close. I like hagler arguably the best middleweight ever but he never left his domain (middleweight division). sugar ray at least moved up for bigger challenges. People always say there is no way that hagler lost that fight, I believe HAgler didn't dominate to warrant that comment. He gave away the early rounds to leonard, and some of the later rounds were close the fight could have gone either way. Also people forget that Hagler was the #1 P4P fighter in the world at that time and leonard was coming with a detached retina and one fight in 5 yrs to fight hagler, I don't know any fighter today who is capable of pulling that off with such considerable risk. give credit where credit is due.

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Such a longass post. But yet you never once try and justifie Leonard winning two bogus titles from a bogus champion like Lalonde.

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

Mayweather has not even come close to being in with the comp of SRL ( weather Ray won or lost he was never blown out til he was way past prime..EG Camacho fight...)...To compare yourself to a guy like Ray is a Bold statement....sometimes a fool is born the second he opens his mouth....Floyd Mayweather Jr....Has about 25 newborn fools running around within the last year alone

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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Also lost to 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler, yeah that's right because we all know Hearns and Marvin were robbed.)

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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did u just start watching boxing, coz the paper champion thing is just soo 90s. with so many alphabet titles, almost everyone is a paper champion unless you are the undisputed champion. Heck 2 of floyds belts came from beating paper champions so why do we acknowledge him as a 3 weight champion. he beat gatti for the WBC title when Ricky hatton was the recognized champion and how he became the IBF welterweight champion is the most bizzare championship claim ever in history of boxing. so with all this paper champion talk half the fighters today shouldn't even be acknowledged as champions and legends like roy jones would not have the title heavyweight champion of the world on their resume. when you fight in weight classes above your natural ones, you are giving away many of your advantages (such as speed, power, reach and size) and what carries you is your skill and will coz the bigger guyz can take your punch better and hit a lot harder, therefore any alright fighter has a good chance to beat you thats is why not every fighter can jump weight class. Morales who is one ofmy favorite fighter couldn't cope with it and got wiped out by Raheem, ppl will say that raheem's style was the factor yes it was but morales fought slick boxers b4 and dominated them. Leonard had talent and fought and beat the best of his era. he never got dominated in his prime, the first duran fight was also very close. I like hagler arguably the best middleweight ever but he never left his domain (middleweight division). sugar ray at least moved up for bigger challenges. People always say there is no way that hagler lost that fight, I believe HAgler didn't dominate to warrant that comment. He gave away the early rounds to leonard, and some of the later rounds were close the fight could have gone either way. Also people forget that Hagler was the #1 P4P fighter in the world at that time and leonard was coming with a detached retina and one fight in 5 yrs to fight hagler, I don't know any fighter today who is capable of pulling that off with such considerable risk. give credit where credit is due.

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Such a longass post. But yet you never once try and justifie Leonard winning two bogus titles from a bogus champion like Lalonde.

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my god, do u have any IQ. read that post again I elaborated on and on how people fight for bogus titles all the time. from sugar ray, to roy jones to mayweather and if we give credit to one fighter for it, we cannot discriminate others. In the past 25 years every great fighter has held a bogus title, roy jones(john ruiz's title), mayweather(arturo gatti and zab judah's title), de la hoya (130lb title), trinidad (160lb title he won from joppy) the list goes on. the whole paper champ debate was a novelty to boxing in the early 90s but it has just been accepted as part of boxing coz every fighter does it these days and even gets credit for it so why knock on sugar ray only, it doesn't make him less legendary, it is just gravy for him, he fought above his natural weight, a guy bigger than him who he didn't beat by decision he knocked him out and that guy happened to be have the 2 belts so why shouldn't he be recognized as the champ.

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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did u just start watching boxing, coz the paper champion thing is just soo 90s. with so many alphabet titles, almost everyone is a paper champion unless you are the undisputed champion. Heck 2 of floyds belts came from beating paper champions so why do we acknowledge him as a 3 weight champion. he beat gatti for the WBC title when Ricky hatton was the recognized champion and how he became the IBF welterweight champion is the most bizzare championship claim ever in history of boxing. so with all this paper champion talk half the fighters today shouldn't even be acknowledged as champions and legends like roy jones would not have the title heavyweight champion of the world on their resume. when you fight in weight classes above your natural ones, you are giving away many of your advantages (such as speed, power, reach and size) and what carries you is your skill and will coz the bigger guyz can take your punch better and hit a lot harder, therefore any alright fighter has a good chance to beat you thats is why not every fighter can jump weight class. Morales who is one ofmy favorite fighter couldn't cope with it and got wiped out by Raheem, ppl will say that raheem's style was the factor yes it was but morales fought slick boxers b4 and dominated them. Leonard had talent and fought and beat the best of his era. he never got dominated in his prime, the first duran fight was also very close. I like hagler arguably the best middleweight ever but he never left his domain (middleweight division). sugar ray at least moved up for bigger challenges. People always say there is no way that hagler lost that fight, I believe HAgler didn't dominate to warrant that comment. He gave away the early rounds to leonard, and some of the later rounds were close the fight could have gone either way. Also people forget that Hagler was the #1 P4P fighter in the world at that time and leonard was coming with a detached retina and one fight in 5 yrs to fight hagler, I don't know any fighter today who is capable of pulling that off with such considerable risk. give credit where credit is due.

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Such a longass post. But yet you never once try and justifie Leonard winning two bogus titles from a bogus champion like Lalonde.

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my god, do u have any IQ. read that post again I elaborated on and on how people fight for bogus titles all the time. from sugar ray, to roy jones to mayweather and if we give credit to one fighter for it, we cannot discriminate others. In the past 25 years every great fighter has held a bogus title, roy jones(john ruiz's title), mayweather(arturo gatti and zab judah's title), de la hoya (130lb title), trinidad (160lb title he won from joppy) the list goes on. the whole paper champ debate was a novelty to boxing in the early 90s but it has just been accepted as part of boxing coz every fighter does it these days and even gets credit for it so why knock on sugar ray only, it doesn't make him less legendary, it is just gravy for him, he fought above his natural weight, a guy bigger than him who he didn't beat by decision he knocked him out and that guy happened to be have the 2 belts so why shouldn't he be recognized as the champ.

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So beating Lalonde is good enough to be recongnized as champion for 2 divisions. Right? Lalonde was that good, Right? Even your not stupid enough to accept that are you?

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by chamiley

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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olympic gold medalist, beating 3 legends (Duran, Hearns and Hagler) and a number of tough opponents ( Benitez, Ayub Kalule, Davey Moore). 6 championship in 6 weight classes.

I fail to comprehend which aspect of his career was overrated.

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6 championships in 6 weight classes? Stupid comments like that is why he's overrated. You actually count the Hagler so-called victory? Or the two titles he gained by beating that paper champion Donny Lalaonde? Since when is beating Lalonde good enough for two titles? Unless they were manufactured titles.

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did u just start watching boxing, coz the paper champion thing is just soo 90s. with so many alphabet titles, almost everyone is a paper champion unless you are the undisputed champion. Heck 2 of floyds belts came from beating paper champions so why do we acknowledge him as a 3 weight champion. he beat gatti for the WBC title when Ricky hatton was the recognized champion and how he became the IBF welterweight champion is the most bizzare championship claim ever in history of boxing. so with all this paper champion talk half the fighters today shouldn't even be acknowledged as champions and legends like roy jones would not have the title heavyweight champion of the world on their resume. when you fight in weight classes above your natural ones, you are giving away many of your advantages (such as speed, power, reach and size) and what carries you is your skill and will coz the bigger guyz can take your punch better and hit a lot harder, therefore any alright fighter has a good chance to beat you thats is why not every fighter can jump weight class. Morales who is one ofmy favorite fighter couldn't cope with it and got wiped out by Raheem, ppl will say that raheem's style was the factor yes it was but morales fought slick boxers b4 and dominated them. Leonard had talent and fought and beat the best of his era. he never got dominated in his prime, the first duran fight was also very close. I like hagler arguably the best middleweight ever but he never left his domain (middleweight division). sugar ray at least moved up for bigger challenges. People always say there is no way that hagler lost that fight, I believe HAgler didn't dominate to warrant that comment. He gave away the early rounds to leonard, and some of the later rounds were close the fight could have gone either way. Also people forget that Hagler was the #1 P4P fighter in the world at that time and leonard was coming with a detached retina and one fight in 5 yrs to fight hagler, I don't know any fighter today who is capable of pulling that off with such considerable risk. give credit where credit is due.

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Such a longass post. But yet you never once try and justifie Leonard winning two bogus titles from a bogus champion like Lalonde.

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my god, do u have any IQ. read that post again I elaborated on and on how people fight for bogus titles all the time. from sugar ray, to roy jones to mayweather and if we give credit to one fighter for it, we cannot discriminate others. In the past 25 years every great fighter has held a bogus title, roy jones(john ruiz's title), mayweather(arturo gatti and zab judah's title), de la hoya (130lb title), trinidad (160lb title he won from joppy) the list goes on. the whole paper champ debate was a novelty to boxing in the early 90s but it has just been accepted as part of boxing coz every fighter does it these days and even gets credit for it so why knock on sugar ray only, it doesn't make him less legendary, it is just gravy for him, he fought above his natural weight, a guy bigger than him who he didn't beat by decision he knocked him out and that guy happened to be have the 2 belts so why shouldn't he be recognized as the champ.

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So beating Lalonde is good enough to be recongnized as champion for 2 divisions. Right? Lalonde was that good, Right? Even your not stupid enough to accept that are you?

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buddy times have changed there is no longer one champion for one division, there is less talent out there compare to the earlier eras as athletes are moving on to different sports. sure lalonde was the best light heavyweight ever hell he is not even top ten of all time but he was the champion that time and ray knocked him out simple as that. accept it and you will be at peace or else you are in for many disappointments coz it is getting worse and worse

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Leonard has always been one of boxings most overrated fighters. I think Mayweather beats him on points.

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:lol:
Leonard wins EASILY in 5 rounds or less. Floyd only has speed, NO Power. Leonard kicks his ass...

sugar ray ud, over all bigger stronger
leaonord is to mayweather as jones is to leanord

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Originally Posted by pacdog

sugar ray ud, over all bigger stronger
leaonord is to mayweather as jones is to leanord

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yep. Bigger, stronger, faster, better.