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Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
Guys and Gals, IMO I feel Marvin even though he had an Illustrious and great career I always remember him for being a Baby Just cause Leonard didnt give him the rematch!!!! I feel for all the rough and ruggedness of Marvin coupled with being so Vain that he legally changed his name to "Marvelous Marvin" that it wuz no marvelous way he left the sport I lost alot of respect for him and feel is legacy is a tad bit tarnished...
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
No, he was not.
He was cheated against Leonard - there is no way Leonard won that fight.
He retired after umpteen defences, a legend of the ring, he really was 'marvelous' (just a shame he could not spell it properly) and never tainted himself by coming back.
Good luck to him.
I think he was older than 33, wasn't he??
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
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Originally Posted by X
No, he was not.
He was cheated against Leonard - there is no way Leonard won that fight.
He retired after umpteen defences, a legend of the ring, he really was 'marvelous' (just a shame he could not spell it properly) and never tainted himself by coming back.
Good luck to him.
I think he was older than 33, wasn't he??
Nope born in 1954 retired in 1987
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Guys and Gals, IMO I feel Marvin even though he had an Illustrious and great career I always remember him for being a Baby Just cause Leonard didnt give him the rematch!!!! I feel for all the rough and ruggedness of Marvin coupled with being so Vain that he legally changed his name to "Marvelous Marvin" that it wuz no marvelous way he left the sport I lost alot of respect for him...
sad click for the most poorly worded title for a thread in the history of this board.
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Guys and Gals, IMO I feel Marvin even though he had an Illustrious and great career I always remember him for being a Baby Just cause Leonard didnt give him the rematch!!!! I feel for all the rough and ruggedness of Marvin coupled with being so Vain that he legally changed his name to "Marvelous Marvin" that it wuz no marvelous way he left the sport I lost alot of respect for him...
sad click for the most poorly worded title for a thread in the history of this board.
Well this is a discussion board and a big ol sad click back to you to I liked Marvin alot but I think he could of gone out a little bit better than that
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
Maybe the Goddamn duplicate Thread I started is worded better for you if anything I should of gotten a sad click for technical diffuculties(computer problem)
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
Sugar Ray Leonard would've beat Hagler in a rematch and Hagler knew he couldn't beat him and that's the reason why he retired. He looked so slow against Leonard, it was embarrassing.
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
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Originally Posted by eugepang
Sugar Ray Leonard would've beat Hagler in a rematch and Hagler knew he couldn't beat him and that's the reason why he retired. He looked so slow against Leonard, it was embarrassing.
Sorry, I don't agree.
Leonard's whole game plan was predicated on fooling the judges into seeing a prime Leonard who was long gone, he did this by posing and showboating and by tossing in eye-catching flurries at the end of the rounds. It was a natural progression from the tactice that he used to beat Duran, and for sheer nerve, I think it stands up there with Ali's rope-a-dope against Foreman.
BUT - I don't think that an objective viewing of the fight justifies the decision (look at Collazo/Hatton where aggression really seemed to count).
Moreover, if it had been a 15 round fight, Leonard would have been stopped (and he admitted it himself). It was a great con trick and Leonard would have given Hagler a rematch about as much as Ali would have given Foreman one!!!
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
How could his record be tarnished? He's an all-time great. One of the best 160 fighters ever.
However, he didn't get robbed v. Leonard. His problem was the same that Hopkins had in the first Taylor loss. He started fighting too late. Hagler practically gave away the first 4 rds to the crowd pleasing Leonard, and I felt the last 8 rds they split. He deserved to lose.
And he did congratulate Leonard afterwards, although he was extremely unhappy doing it.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare
How could his record be tarnished? He's an all-time great. One of the best 160 fighters ever.
However, he didn't get robbed v. Leonard. His problem was the same that Hopkins had in the first Taylor loss. He started fighting too late. Hagler practically gave away the first 4 rds to the crowd pleasing Leonard, and I felt the last 8 rds they split. He deserved to lose.
And he did congratulate Leonard afterwards, although he was extremely unhappy doing it.
My point being that since Ray refused to give him a rematch he threw up his hands and said screw it I'm done....
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
Marvin had 66 fights going into the Leonard fight. I honestly think even if he won he would have retired. He had a long career and it wasnt cut short. Unfortunately most of the greats retired on a loss.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
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Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Marvin had 66 fights going into the Leonard fight. I honestly think even if he won he would have retired. He had a long career and it wasnt cut short. Unfortunately most of the greats retired on a loss.
Very well said....can't click you for another 24 hours....but I agree 100% with your post.
Also...nothing about Hagler was whining IWO.
I woulda been p!ssed off too that Leonard didn't give me a rematch...then again...I don't like Leonard. He's a prick IWO. Great fighter...total pre-maddona.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
I think Leonard won that fight just. I think if it went Marvins way then it would have been more harsh on Leonard.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
I think haglers legend would have been more tarnished had he comeback. The fact that unlike most fighters he stayed retired will stand him in good stead for his legacy. I think he lost the fight to Leonard but was not beaten out of sight. This was at a time when he was on the slide.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Marvin had 66 fights going into the Leonard fight. I honestly think even if he won he would have retired. He had a long career and it wasnt cut short. Unfortunately most of the greats retired on a loss.
Very well said....can't click you for another 24 hours....but I agree 100% with your post.
Also...nothing about Hagler was whining IWO.
I woulda been p!ssed off too that Leonard didn't give me a rematch...then again...I don't like Leonard. He's a prick IWO. Great fighter...total pre-maddona.
Hee hee! Pre-maddona! It's prima donna, meaning 'first lady' in italian. And here come the "sad clicks"...
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
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Originally Posted by LBSCFC
I think haglers legend would have been more tarnished had he comeback. The fact that unlike most fighters he stayed retired will stand him in good stead for his legacy. I think he lost the fight to Leonard but was not beaten out of sight. This was at a time when he was on the slide.
You're right, he was borderline retired before the fight, and if he couldn't get a rematch there was no one else really for him to add to his legendary legacy.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
No way. If you look at the way he had to come up in boxing then you'd understand. Both he and SRL had career's in parallel, except SRL had everything handed to him. Remember watching a good doc on it and I think that Hagler beat SLR as an amatour, and because of bad luck and management their career's took different paths. Hagler had to earn his shot fighting through the clubs and undercards. The most pertinent point was that after SRL won his olympic gold and turned pro and had his first fight. He was being paid loads and headlined the card. His first fight as a pro. Guess who was apparently way down on the undercard! Hagler! After fighting loads of fights as a pro already, to be paid peanuts to fight low down on the undercard of someone in their first pro fight, and having already beaten them.
Hagler always hated SRL because he saw him getting everything that he didn't, including the addulation and respect for his boxing ability. So to actually loose to him in the ring, when you truely feel that you won and had been robbed was the final straw!
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
There is a good quote, made by Smokin Joe Frazier to Marvin Hagler early in his career: "Son, you got three strikes against you already, you're black, you're a southpaw, and you're good"
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
Hagler deserves more respect for retiring when he did. He didn't get the decision in a controversial fight agains a hall of famer when his skills were starting to wear down. He had the strength to stay away even though he admitted his ego still craved fighting. Imagine how less controversial Roy Jones legacy would have been if he retired after the 1st Jones Tarver fight and didn't hang around to get beaten up by guys he would have shut out in the past
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
No way is Hagler's legacy tarnished. Why would people let one middle aged judge determine a great fighter's legacy. If that judge would have gone the other way, it wouldn't have changed his performance, which by the way I think Hagler won anyway. There was no one else left to fight.
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Re: Was a Hagler a Whining B&^ch for Retireing at 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugepang
Sugar Ray Leonard would've beat Hagler in a rematch and Hagler knew he couldn't beat him and that's the reason why he retired. He looked so slow against Leonard, it was embarrassing.
Sorry, I don't agree.
Leonard's whole game plan was predicated on fooling the judges into seeing a prime Leonard who was long gone, he did this by posing and showboating and by tossing in eye-catching flurries at the end of the rounds. It was a natural progression from the tactice that he used to beat Duran, and for sheer nerve, I think it stands up there with Ali's rope-a-dope against Foreman.
BUT - I don't think that an objective viewing of the fight justifies the decision (look at Collazo/Hatton where aggression really seemed to count).
Moreover, if it had been a 15 round fight, Leonard would have been stopped (and he admitted it himself). It was a great con trick and Leonard would have given Hagler a rematch about as much as Ali would have given Foreman one!!!
"People don't realize, I didn't want a rematch" - George Foreman
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Promoter
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugepang
Sugar Ray Leonard would've beat Hagler in a rematch and Hagler knew he couldn't beat him and that's the reason why he retired. He looked so slow against Leonard, it was embarrassing.
Sorry, I don't agree.
Leonard's whole game plan was predicated on fooling the judges into seeing a prime Leonard who was long gone, he did this by posing and showboating and by tossing in eye-catching flurries at the end of the rounds. It was a natural progression from the tactice that he used to beat Duran, and for sheer nerve, I think it stands up there with Ali's rope-a-dope against Foreman.
BUT - I don't think that an objective viewing of the fight justifies the decision (look at Collazo/Hatton where aggression really seemed to count).
Moreover, if it had been a 15 round fight, Leonard would have been stopped (and he admitted it himself). It was a great con trick and Leonard would have given Hagler a rematch about as much as Ali would have given Foreman one!!!
"People don't realize, I didn't want a rematch" - George Foreman
:)
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
If anything, retiring the way he did helps his legacy. He went out on a disputed loss, and we never got to see him get an old man beat down.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
I don't think Leonard did enough to take Haglers title. Considering what Hagler achieved & the manner in which he acheived it I think he was treated pretty badly in the run up & aftermath of the fight. I don't blame him for turning his back. Hagler was easily an equal in stature as a fighter to Leonard but as a casual fan you wouldn't have known it in the run up.
Hagler was a proper fighter, made his way up the ranks, was avoided & got robbed in the Antuafermo fight. I would guess that most boxing fans respect Hagler more than Leonard.
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Guys and Gals, IMO I feel Marvin even though he had an Illustrious and great career I always remember him for being a Baby Just cause Leonard didnt give him the rematch!!!! I feel for all the rough and ruggedness of Marvin coupled with being so Vain that he legally changed his name to "Marvelous Marvin" that it wuz no marvelous way he left the sport I lost alot of respect for him and feel is legacy is a tad bit tarnished...
Never...nope...noway! Hagler dominated for so many years and how did boxing repay him.....by robbing him of his titles!!!! Hagler beat Leonard but those there went for the bs last 10 seconds and not the whole 3 min of each round....THEY wanted Leonard to win....why do you think Leonard never gave him a rematch? Because even Leonard knew he lost...and that Hagler would whip him again....I don't blame Hagler for not coming back....I respect him more for it....sure he could have went a fought some bums to pad his record but the guy he wanted to exact his revenge on wouldn't fight him... should be saying this about Leonard? I mean he is the one that denied Hagler a rematch...
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
In my mind it has not tarnished his legacy at all. He got robbed against SRL. SRL ran the majority of each round and towards the end of the each round he would throw in some flashy slapping combo that did nothing to Hagler. SRL would then showboat. If you judged that fight by who landed the more cleaner and effective punches then it was clearly Hagler.
HAGLER WAS SO F***** ROBBED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Is Marvin Hagler's Legacy Tarnished For The Way He Left The Sport??
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Originally Posted by TyBuff
In my mind it has not tarnished his legacy at all. He got robbed against SRL. SRL ran the majority of each round and towards the end of the each round he would throw in some flashy slapping combo that did nothing to Hagler. SRL would then showboat. If you judged that fight by who landed the more cleaner and effective punches then it was clearly Hagler.
HAGLER WAS SO F***** ROBBED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reminds al ot of Antonio tarver and Roy Jones 1 except the judges saw through the Bullshit!!!
Listen you guys can sad click me all you want somoene has to bring up these controversial subjects and ask provoking questions last time I checked this was a public forum that is designed to exchange thoughts and opinions and Ideas...
I give Lyle alot of credit for His Thread on Ali it was a valid point Really in my 157 posts and the month I have spent on it, all I can see is this cool click sad click is mostly a popularuty contest so I can really give a S*** about how many clicks I have in either direction!!!!! I will not back down from my opinions, and this is to all the haters :fyou: :smilie_ahole:'s
