Simple question. Who do you think is better?
Kobe's defense and perimeter game give him just the slightest edge to me.
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Simple question. Who do you think is better?
Kobe's defense and perimeter game give him just the slightest edge to me.
T-Mac ;)
Kobe.
LeBron idolizes Kobe so that lets you know who he thinks is better. And Kobe can play defense and has been All NBA Defensive Team before.
As of right now Kobe.
Hes proven himself to be an elite, LeBron is on his way there but not yet.
Anyone think this Brooklyn kid 'Telfair' is something special or all hype??????
Lebron. At least in a year or two. Even now though, as a GM I'd pick him over Kobe/ Kobe is a virtuoso, but he's a terrible leader and a poor teammate. Lebron has these intangibles in spades--and he's only like 20 years old. If either of these guys is truly the heir to Jordan, it's Lebron (though he's closer to Magic style-wise).
Why is he even close to Magic because he can do fancy passes? He aint close to Magic stylewise. And Kobe is a good leader if you look at the team full of NBDL and European players to the playoffs. Compare it to LeBron's team and Kobe had to do what he had to do to get them to the playoffs, once he did he played like an MVP and got them involved. Did what he had to do to get them there, then once there he did what was right just didn't win ;D
I'd pick Kobe over Bron anyday, because Kobe plays defense
give lebron 3 years and him and kobe wont be talked about in the same breath,lebron is so much stronger,and equally as gifted as kobe was at his age.
...also lebron is more of a team player.
Lebroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon. Should have seen him tonight in Detroit. I'm sure Kobe did, being that he's on vacation ;D
because he plays like a large point guard. it's not like it's some kind of crazy thing to say--it's the comparison that most commentators make ALL THE TIME.Quote:
Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes
Kobe is an extremely selfish player on the court and a prima donna off the court, all of which leads to his team mates not respecting him and being unwilling to give it the extra 10% when necessary (not that he passes to them much anyway--you're DEAD WRONG about him getting his team mates involved in the playoffs; in a lot of those games, it was the same old ball hog kobe). and odom is better than anyone lebron's got, so don't even go there. jordan won 6 with pippen and a bunch of schwag, so if kobe's so great he ought to be able to at least get into round 2 of the playoffs with odom on his team.
lebron was runner up in MVP voting this year at age 21. kobe has NEVER been ranked so highly by GMs and others who study the game for a living.
You don't know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by leon9996
Because basically Kobe was never made to be the man for the Lakers team when he first was drafted at 17. The team didn;'t have him as a starter for that team or put him in the position of LeBron James. So we don't know how gifted Kobe was at that age because he wasn't put on that stage until later.
LeBron may turn out to be another Vince Carter. Someone who looks "young" when he is "young" but then once he tries to form his own game his team is going to suffer because his maturity in the game won't go with the offense. It happens to all these "next MJ's" that are put in the spotlight from their first game. Kobe wasn't, so he was able to develop without being hyped as much as LeBron. I expect Lebron to be better in 3 years but not the same. And to say Kobe won't be mentioned in the breath of LeBron James in 3 years is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overrating LeBron.
Lebron is better and when all is said and done will have more rings than Kobe, and certainly will have them without the most dominant big man in history carrying him.
Funny, every other teammate says the opposite, particularly Lamar Odom and Smush Parker who say that Kobe is all about getting people involved and has since only going to go on those scoring routes when he absolutely has to.Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
He wasn't even the leading scorer in the games they won and he averaged 8 or 9 assists in those playoffs, and he was 4th on the scorers on his team during that playoffs and in Game 4 the layup that tied it was his own shot of the 4th quarter.Quote:
in the playoffs; in a lot of those games, it was the same old ball hog kobe).
Yea he was sure a ballhog in the playoffs ::**
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!?!?!?!?! Lamar is more inconsistant then George Bush on terrorists ;)Quote:
and odom is better than anyone lebron's got, so don't even go there.
Odom isn't comparable ti Pippen since Pippen was more consistant. But Jordan never won a championship without Pipper and Pippen never won a championship without Jordan.Quote:
jordan won 6 with pippen and a bunch of schwag, so if kobe's so great he ought to be able to at least get into round 2 of the playoffs with odom on his team.
Now lets look at the lineup of some of those Bulls teams hmm..
Steve Kerr NATURAL STARTER
Ron Harper NATURAL STARTER
Scottie Pippen NATURAL STARTER
Paxon STARTER
Dennis Rodman NATURAL STARTER and leader in the NBA in rebounds when he was in Detroit.
Now you look at some of the lineup on Kobe's team for the last few
Smush Parker their starting point
NBDL player who was last off the bench for every NBA Team he started
Kwame Brown
First round washout who's confidence was shattered BY Jordan at Washington just starting to come into his own and not a natural starter, just as a laker when Mihm was injured
Chris Mihm
Off the bench center but starts for the lakers, but NOT a Natural starter throughoug his career, only as a Laker.
Kobe Bryant NATURAL STARTER
Lamar Odom NATURAL STARTER
Luke Walton.....
.....
Aaron Mckie Off the bench point guard for Philly
Sasha their second PG I think it played overseas in the italian league.
brian cook, not a natural starter, just started to come to his own this year
deavon george, not a natural starter and inconsistant
I don't see 5 Natural starters on any of the Laker's squad(for the last year) when compared with the Bulls that was so dominant, so to say Jordan only had Pippen on his team is in Mike Tyson's words ludacris!!! :)
it's called hype and politics ;)Quote:
lebron was runner up in MVP voting this year at age 21. kobe has NEVER been ranked so highly by GMs and others who study the game for a living.
And how many times has LeBron made both the NBA All first team and the NBA all first team in defense ???
I hate all the Kobe hate. There's no point. he goes for 60+ in the first 3 quarters against the Mavericks and decides to sit down because the team was there to win now showcase him and it was HIS DECISION to sit the final last of the 3rd and the whole of the 4th because Phil gave him the option to play. he didn't. And he was bashed by the haters and all they were saying is that "Kobe should have played but he say himself for the "right reason" this was his opportunity to make history but he can only think about himself and his image so he sits himself to look "good" well that makes him so selfish. He had a chance for HISTORY!! blah blah blah."
Ok... then he goes out and scores 81, 81!!! And people say that "Oh he's selfish because he didn't have to score 81 and make history he should have sat himself and blah blah." Which contradicts all those other hate statements. they can call him selfish but you forget that his team was down when he went on his scoring spree to get 81, so he did it to help his team not himself.
Then again some people hate Kobe no matter what, just drop it. He's better then LeBron in my opinion.
So I'll pick Kobe.
HOLD ON!!! They both carried each other. has Shaq ever won a ring without Kobe? Or has he even gotten close without someone else carrying him? He had Penny Hardaway in Orlando, he had Kobe Bryant in LA and he has Dwane Wade in Miami. And Shaq also has Kobe to thank for being the assists that were the reason he scored so much and that they won 3 titles! Shaq got Kobe to thank for those 3 rings too!Quote:
Originally Posted by smashcrusher
Shaq = 3 NBA Finals MVPs
Kobe =
Thank you and good night :lickish:
And? They both carried each other?
Shaq= 3 NBA Championship rings with Kobe
Shaq= 0 NBA Championship rings without Kobe, this includes having Hardaway and having Dwayne Wade ;)
And Shaq getting the finals MVP he never would have gotten if Kobe hadn't averaged the double digit assists to get him the ball.
What has Shaq done without Kobe? How many rings ???
Exactly :)
what are you guys talking about?
and what is a kebron?....is that some kind of fashion ware ???
Why are you still talking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Shaq = 3 NBA Finals MVPs
Kobe =
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
And like I said, when has Shaq won any NBA Titles without Kobe ???
And how many NBA Finals without Kobe ;) Without Kobe he never would have gotten Finals MVP because he would have never made it and never made it to the finals without him so the Finals MVP thing is a mute point since he would have no Finals MVP if it wasn't for Kobe ;)
He doesn't idolize Kobe. He idolizes MJ and he said he rooted for the Kings rather then the Lakers in their playoff series.Quote:
Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes
Anyways they are both great players, elite players. I think Kobe has the edge becasue he's done it for a while now, but I think Lebron will go down as one of the greatest, greater then Kobe. If I had to pick someone to build my franchise around, 1 single person in the NBA it would be Lebron without thinking twice.
Jordan never won any titles without Pippen. I guess that means Pippen is just as great as Jordan too ::**
That's a ridiculous argument since Shaq had Kobe in his prime...I think Kobe was a HUGE part of those teams and I hate when they're compared. It's so unfair to both of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
It's the same ridiculous argument to say that Kobe only won because he had Shaq to carry him ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO
Please. LeBron has proven to be 100% better then he was made out to be. Don't beleive me? Ask the Pistons. Can't beleive you are knocking LeBron like that just because you are high on Kobe. You can give both their due. It's ok Purist :) Same with the people who are saying Kobe won't be in the same breath with Lebron. You people act like Kobe's game is slowing down or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
It's all dumb. Rick Fox was all the NBA championship teams. What have Kobe and Shaq done without Rick Fox? Nothing! Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Kobe < Rick Fox > Shaq
;D
I am knocking LeBron and he hasn't proven that he is better then Vince yet. He is doing what he should do in the first 3 years but how is his game going to come around. I expect him to be another in the long line of "Next MJ's" who are put on such a high pedastool early where everything is looked at as Jordan esque, and when they stop being Jordan and start being who they are then people think they are falling off.
It will happen to LeBron when he is coming into his own. And please, he's only advanced past the first round. he gets to the NBA Finals then we can say he's better then Vince ;)
And didn't Vince do everything that LeBron has just accomplished in his rookie year ???
NO he didn't do anything close to it. He wasn't the dominating force. He was a flashy player but he never took on the role of team leader and he never led his team to 3 wins over the best team in the East in the playoffs. Come on I HATE using stats because they don't tell half the story most of the time but look at this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
18.3 ppg in his rookie season, 25 in his second and 5 RPGs first two seasons and only 3 assists for the first two seasons. Very good points output but not even close to Lebron in terms of dishing the rock and rebounding.
It's SO obvious that Lebron is different then the rest of the other "next MJ's" and practically everyone has realized that but I guess you can never get rid of all the haters.
Yeah, the biggest difference is that he is a Forward and not a Guard. You can't compare him to MJ because those are two completely different positions, two completely different mentalities, and two completely different games. And I don't rank LeBron over Marion or McGrady yet ;)
Lebron, Kobe is a punk bitch.
:lol: Don't talk about LeBron's idol and mentor like that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeof74
Starr...you're making stuff up. I'm a Warriors fan and Lebron fan after that and I know for a fact that his real idol and mentor was MJ. And his "mentor" is Iverson because of his time on the Olympic team with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Actually. LeBron has been on record saying that Kobe was one of his idols and is a mentor of him. So apparently you haven't heard everything ;)
Wanna show me a link to this? I would REALLY like to see this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Kobe's better as of right now at certian things, but he doesn't have what is going to make Lebron the best ever... Kobe hasn't possessed the composure, the ability to see a play before it happens the way Labron does, and thats why Labron could easily become the best player ever while Kobe will just be a Jordan wannabe despite being among the best ever already.
Hmm. That's funny, because I could swear that the most talented teammate he ever had, as well as his former and now once-again coach said that he was a selfish, "uncoachable" asshole. As did every all-star veteran who joined the Lakers for Shaq's last year there (repeatedly stating that they came to play with Shaq, not with Kobe).Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
You are only proving my point. When Kobe plays like a team player (rarely), the Lakers can win. He's a selfish prick though, and can't help himself. The Lakers were up 3-1, and Kobe had only been the Lakers' leading scorer in one of those victories (as well as in the loss). Kobe was the Lakers' leading scorer for the remainder of the series, and THEY LOST EVERY SINGLE REMAINING GAME (including the game where kobe went for 50). Just to make this clear: in ALL FOUR of the lakers losses, kobe was the lakers' leading scorer. Bottom line: Kobe is an incorrigible ball hog and it hurts his team. You'd think he would have learned by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
and better than anyone lebron's got. and if you want to throw up larry hughes, please remember that lebron's led the cavs over THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE without hughes for three games straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
:lolhaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
:lolhaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
yep, that's oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Starr
:lolhaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
How old was Dennis when he got to Chicago--like 40? Throw in the rockstar lifestyle at that point, and don't get me wrong--he wasn't bad, but don't go throwing up Detroit stats like it's the same player we're talking about. He also obviously wasn't on the team for the first three titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
You're just as bad with the basketball anaylsis as you are with the boxing, huh? You're totally missing the point. A player like Jordan has the leadership and intangibles to make schmucks like Ron Harper look like a "natural starter" to you. He'd make Smush Parker and Luke Walton look just as good if he were in Kobe's place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
It'll happen soon enough. He's got the first part of it done already (with more votes than anyone else in the NBA this year)--something Kobe never did at his age. But I thought that was all "hype and politics" anyway, Starr?Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
I only red as far as the uncoachable. Because with that statement I know you haven't read the book at all but you just listened to what the media said. I read the book so... there's more to it then that and more to what Phil said that the media didn't quote ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO
And I stopped believing Shaq when he did the same thing with Penny Hardaway, he said the same kind of stuff too ;)
And yet he only shot 3 times in the 2nd half.. hmm.. yea a ballhog ::**Quote:
Bottom line: Kobe is an incorrigible ball hog and it hurts his team. You'd think he would have learned by now.
You just take all what the media says and already have an opinion on Kobe. whatever I'm not gonna spend the next 30 minutes here proving you wrong. I won't waste my time. You think what you think, I'll think what I think.
And one other thing. Kobe only went for 50 WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO BRING HIS TEAM BACK FROM 20 DOWN WHEN NO ONE ELSE WAS MAKING SHOTS!!!!
No, I watch the game. And you don't pay any attention to what I'm saying. Or supply any relevant counterarguments. Look at the stats, Starr, I cited them for you. Kobe was the Lakers' highest scorer in 5 out of the 7 games against the Suns. They lost four of those five games. They do pretty well when he's not the highest scorer (i.e., plays unselfishly). Unfortunately, he's congenitally unable to do that for 4 games out of a 7 game series--his loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
If you watched the game you'd notice that Kobe only tried to start scoring when they were down by about 15 and he HAD to score because he was giving passes which people were fumbling or were missing easy set up shots he gave them ;)
Yes, his teammates are unconfident because he doesn't inspire confidence in them. Great players do that--they make others around them better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr