who was the greatest: Muhammad ALi or Sugar Ray Robinson?

i say Muhammad Ali

b4 his exile he was impossible 2 beat

when he cameback he was still almost impossible 2 beat
beat the indestructible sonny liston 2x-

beat the indestructible George foreman and ko his ass(the only man 2 do so)
beat frazier 2x
beat norton 2x

all of those fights he wasnt even in his prime---imagine if a prime ali existed!

ray robinson however was impossible 2 beat--the only time he could get licked was when he was an old man at like 44

if ali reached a prime i believe he would have been the greatest p4p fighter 2 ever live---thats y i pick ali

this is a very hard choice

What about Willie Pep, he won more fights than those two fought COMBINED!

Willie Pep 230(65 KO)-11-1

Ray was great though! So was Ali but Ray was always exciting to watch...Ali not so much

Ali was a heavy weight
Robinson was a welterweight.
Apples and oranges. Welterweights are almost always more exciting to watch.

A featherweight. 26 yr. carreer. (pro and am.) Worthy, of thought.

Ali definately,

Ray slightly more exciting to watch but Ali's charismatic personality and clever ability to stirr media interest beats that of any other boxer, hands down!

I'd go with Ray.

I have to side with Robinson.

no question about it...SRR

Willie Pep, Benny Leonard were greater imo

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Originally Posted by undefeated

i say Muhammad Ali

b4 his exile he was impossible 2 beat

when he cameback he was still almost impossible 2 beat
beat the indestructible sonny liston 2x-

beat the indestructible George foreman and ko his a**(the only man 2 do so)
beat frazier 2x
beat norton 2x

all of those fights he wasnt even in his prime---imagine if a prime ali existed!

ray robinson however was impossible 2 beat--the only time he could get licked was when he was an old man at like 44

if ali reached a prime i believe he would have been the greatest p4p fighter 2 ever live---thats y i pick ali

this is a very hard choice

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I dunno Ray Robinson was licked pretty good against Lamotta their first fight... I think Ali was as good if not better because he fought way better guys.. .I never liked who Robinson foughts, and thought alot of his fights were way too close considering how bad his opponent was. IMO Roy Jones Jr. or Floyd Mayweather Jr. or Leonard would have all beaten him p4p very very badly.

Didn't they call Ali the heavyweight Ray Robinson ??? Ali's style he basically used Ray Robinson for influence and added some flair and jabbed more.

"If He was a heavyweight I think he'd beat me" - Ali, speaking about Ray Robinson

Ray's career spanded 30 years...won fighter of the the year in three different decades...was 121-1... beat lamotta 4 out of 5 times...finished 179-19... 15 of those losses cam after he was 38..10 of them after forty years old...the one against maxim came after he was winning but passed ut from heat exhaustion...had a 92 fight win streak...IMO this isn't even close....

Esp when Ali admitted that he'd would have lost to Ray ;)

ALi said on numerous occasion 'I am the greatest heavyweight ever, Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter ever'.

Experts were once comparing Roy Jones to Ray robinson as one of the best P4P fighters ever.

This is off topic, But how many times did Robinson loose to lamotta???

1 out 5....SRR 4wins lamotta 1 win

Both had indominable wills but Robinson was the better boxer.

Joe Gans and Jim driscoll were just as good and probably a lot more durable.

I'd say that Ali was the GREATEST because he transcended the sport, brought in multi-million dollar paydays, got the average person interested in boxing, was the most famous person on the planet. I will agree with Lyle that he was not always an angel, but he was the Greatest.

Sugar Ray was the better fighter !

Deof SRR, Ali said it himself, and that's one guy who's never unduely modest ;D
A lot is said about Ali's principles, but don't forget that when SRR was fighting, the mob controlled boxing, and the only one's who made it had to join with them. This is somehing that SRR and LaMotta refused to do, and as such had to force their ways to the top, despite not getting the fights they should have. This is the main reason they fought each other so much, there was nobody else!!
Also SRR was a true gentleman in the ring. Always respectful to his opponent's even in defeat. I would also say that he had everything as a fighter. I always felt Ali wasn't too heavy a hitter, something he said himself in the run up to the Foreman fight, "I don't hit too hard, but I'll out box him". (or something similar ;))

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Originally Posted by undefeated

i say Muhammad Ali

b4 his exile he was impossible 2 beat

when he cameback he was still almost impossible 2 beat
beat the indestructible sonny liston 2x-

beat the indestructible George foreman and ko his a**(the only man 2 do so)
beat frazier 2x
beat norton 2x

all of those fights he wasnt even in his prime---imagine if a prime ali existed!

ray robinson however was impossible 2 beat--the only time he could get licked was when he was an old man at like 44

if ali reached a prime i believe he would have been the greatest p4p fighter 2 ever live---thats y i pick ali

this is a very hard choice

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Did he really beat Norton twice or did he lose at least 2 or possibly all 3 :-\

Ray he was a much more exciting fighter to watch.

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Originally Posted by undefeated

i say Muhammad Ali

b4 his exile he was impossible 2 beat

when he cameback he was still almost impossible 2 beat
beat the indestructible sonny liston 2x-

beat the indestructible George foreman and ko his a**(the only man 2 do so)
beat frazier 2x
beat norton 2x

all of those fights he wasnt even in his prime---imagine if a prime ali existed!

ray robinson however was impossible 2 beat--the only time he could get licked was when he was an old man at like 44

if ali reached a prime i believe he would have been the greatest p4p fighter 2 ever live---thats y i pick ali

this is a very hard choice

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Sugar....Ali was one of the greatest though...

Robinson all day long.

SRR no match. Ali had his moments, but I never liked that he brought race and religion into boxing.

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Originally Posted by azumir

SRR no match. Ali had his moments, but I never liked that he brought race and religion into boxing.

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Evander brought religion into boxing too, don't forget. George Foreman did later on as well.

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by azumir

SRR no match. Ali had his moments, but I never liked that he brought race and religion into boxing.

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Evander brought religion into boxing too, don't forget. George Foreman did later on as well.

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Yes, but the subject was on Ali and SRR.

I don't care what this thread is about

ROY JONES JR

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by azumir

SRR no match. Ali had his moments, but I never liked that he brought race and religion into boxing.

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Evander brought religion into boxing too, don't forget. George Foreman did later on as well.

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not near the level of ALi.....Ali used religion as a crutch and as a tool at the same time.....He abused his religion at first then finally when he understood it he calmed down and was similar to George and Evander...

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Originally Posted by azumir

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by azumir

SRR no match. Ali had his moments, but I never liked that he brought race and religion into boxing.

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Evander brought religion into boxing too, don't forget. George Foreman did later on as well.

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Yes, but the subject was on Ali and SRR.

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My point was that other people did as well, so bringing the fact that he brought religion into boxing is hardly unusual. He also wasn't the first as John L was a great lecturer on religious matters in the bareknuckle days.

So, as many people did it. it is not relevant when discussing Ali/SRR

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Originally Posted by X

I'd say that Ali was the GREATEST because he transcended the sport, brought in multi-million dollar paydays, got the average person interested in boxing, was the most famous person on the planet. I will agree with Lyle that he was not always an angel, but he was the Greatest.

Sugar Ray was the better fighter !

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Agree completely, more people knew his name in the world than the Pope, US Pres. etc. Numreo uno.

Best boxer, Robinson. Best Showman, Ali.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

"If He was a heavyweight I think he'd beat me" - Ali, speaking about Ray Robinson

Ray's career spanded 30 years...won fighter of the the year in three different decades...was 121-1... beat lamotta 4 out of 5 times...finished 179-19... 15 of those losses cam after he was 38..10 of them after forty years old...the one against maxim came after he was winning but passed ut from heat exhaustion...had a 92 fight win streak...IMO this isn't even close....

Esp when Ali admitted that he'd would have lost to Ray ;)

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Awesome post!!!!! :coolclick: this is the kid of posts I'm expecting to see from you!!!

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Originally Posted by sanj16

Deof SRR, Ali said it himself, and that's one guy who's never unduely modest ;D
A lot is said about Ali's principles, but don't forget that when SRR was fighting, the mob controlled boxing, and the only one's who made it had to join with them. This is somehing that SRR and LaMotta refused to do, and as such had to force their ways to the top, despite not getting the fights they should have. This is the main reason they fought each other so much, there was nobody else!!
Also SRR was a true gentleman in the ring. Always respectful to his opponent's even in defeat. I would also say that he had everything as a fighter. I always felt Ali wasn't too heavy a hitter, something he said himself in the run up to the Foreman fight, "I don't hit too hard, but I'll out box him". (or something similar ;))

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I don't know about that Hitting hard comment...My cousin Luke Capuano had an exhibition with Ali..Luke said speed is power and that he'd never been hit harder by anyone....also got a black eye from Ali...I joked with him and asked if he had Ali autograph it and he said he already did that with his fist...lol

Ray Robinson was better...what if Ali fought George Foreman as many times as Robinson fought Lamotta?

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by undefeated

i say Muhammad Ali

b4 his exile he was impossible 2 beat

when he cameback he was still almost impossible 2 beat
beat the indestructible sonny liston 2x-

beat the indestructible George foreman and ko his a**(the only man 2 do so)
beat frazier 2x
beat norton 2x

all of those fights he wasnt even in his prime---imagine if a prime ali existed!

ray robinson however was impossible 2 beat--the only time he could get licked was when he was an old man at like 44

if ali reached a prime i believe he would have been the greatest p4p fighter 2 ever live---thats y i pick ali

this is a very hard choice

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Did he really beat Norton twice or did he lose at least 2 or possibly all 3 :-\

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well ali won the second and third time---however most people feel ali got a gift decision on their third encounter

There are no "the greatest" fighters. Every boxing fan likes different styled fighters. I love the Mike Tyson, Arturro Gatti, Mickey Ward type fighter. I have a soft spot for action packed explosive fighters. Eric Morales. Manny paquio, Antonio Barrera, Floyd Patterson. I could go on and on. To me, these type of fighters are my favorites. There are no "the greatest" fighters in my opinion. Every one of the great boxers loss to what was considered lesser opponents. Rocky Marciano only finished undefeated because he fought mostly bums and past champions way past there prime. But i still like Rocky Marciano. I just wished he had proved himself more by fighting top ranked fighters in their prime.

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

There are no "the greatest" fighters. Every boxing fan likes different styled fighters. I love the Mike Tyson, Arturro Gatti, Mickey Ward type fighter. I have a soft spot for action packed explosive fighters. Eric Morales. Manny paquio, Antonio Barrera, Floyd Patterson. I could go on and on. To me, these type of fighters are my favorites. There are no "the greatest" fighters in my opinion. Every one of the great boxers loss to what was considered lesser opponents. Rocky Marciano only finished undefeated because he fought mostly bums and past champions way past there prime. But i still like Rocky Marciano. I just wished he had proved himself more by fighting top ranked fighters in their prime.

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He fought everyone who was anyone at the time. Thats all the man could have possibly done, he gave in to increasing pressure to give up boxing from familly etc. Lets not turn this thread into a Rocky hating one ey guys..........

in terms of pure fighting ability robinson was the best. he had bravery, speed, grace, agility and power. he also scored the most perfect knockout ive ever seen (fullmer II).

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

There are no "the greatest" fighters. Every boxing fan likes different styled fighters. I love the Mike Tyson, Arturro Gatti, Mickey Ward type fighter. I have a soft spot for action packed explosive fighters. Eric Morales. Manny paquio, Antonio Barrera, Floyd Patterson. I could go on and on. To me, these type of fighters are my favorites. There are no "the greatest" fighters in my opinion. Every one of the great boxers loss to what was considered lesser opponents. Rocky Marciano only finished undefeated because he fought mostly bums and past champions way past there prime. But i still like Rocky Marciano. I just wished he had proved himself more by fighting top ranked fighters in their prime.

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Agree compleatly. But I still say Ali, Because he changed the face of boxing throughout the world, and because he said so.