Is Naseem Hamed in the top 10 featherweights of all time?

Naseem Hamed - Does The Prince Belong In The Top Ten Greatest Ever Featherweights?

19.05.06 - By James Slater: Now that we can all pretty much take for granted the fact that Naseem Hamed's career is over as a prize fighter, what with his jail sentence, it is time to evaluate his achievements as a boxer. I vividly remember Emanuel Steward, who was training Hamed at the time, telling an interviewer that Naseem Hamed would, in time, go down in history as the greatest featherweight of all-time. I was shocked by those words, coming as they did from a highly knowledgeable and respected trainer. No way did I agree then (the statement was made by Emanuel just prior to the Barrera fight, back in 2001) and no way do I agree now.

Just where then, does The Prince, as he was once known - he surely does not deserve to be referred to in such revered terms today, not after his unforgivable behaviour during the immediate aftermath of the car crash for which he is now serving jail time- rank amongst the very best in featherweight history? Many will disagree, but to my mind he does not belong in a list of the top ten finest featherweights of all-time.

In fact, when Steward made his amazing statement I fully believe the likes of Sandy Saddler, Henry Armstrong and Salvador Sanchez were turning over in their graves! And as for the truly gifted featherweight boxers from yesteryear who are still with us, along with quite a few from more recent years - some of whom are still active - they too must have at the very least raised an eyebrow or two upon hearing the lavish praise Emanuel was bestowing on his fighter at the time.

Hamed was blessed with awesome punch power and early on in his career - when he trained with diligence- his speed and accuracy, as well as his work rate were very good indeed. It wasn't too long though, before Naseem began to rely on his KO power and this alone to pull out the victory. Men like Kevin Kelley, Augie Sanchez and of course Barrera, found massive holes in Hamed's style of fighting, as the former two names knocked him down in alarming fashion, while Marco became the only man to defeat him. And while Hamed's overall record is impressive - what with one solitary loss- what he did after this loss speaks volumes regarding his true fighting heart when it is compared with the legends from his division. Instead of putting the rematch clause option he had for a return with the Mexican great into operation Naseem let its year long validity expire. Even though he could have met Barrera in his hometown in a second encounter. This is not how true champions, let alone all-time greats, react.

Imagine someone like Willie Pep, for example, losing to Saddler for the first time and then never facing him again. No way would he have been able to live with himself without at least trying to get revenge. To have actually done so is the mark of a true champion. Hamed never showed this quality. To have virtually retired after his first ever defeat is a fact that really hurts his legacy. I just cannot in good conscience rate Hamed above fighters such as Pep and Saddler, Armstrong, Sanchez, Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Arguello, Nelson or even McGuigan. To me these fighters showed more desire, guts and heart than Naseem ever did.

Though I'm fully aware many will disagree, in my opinion Naseem Hamed has no place in the all-time top ten featherweights in history.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=6997&more=1

No way, you cant fight over seas and beat a couple of journey man (kevin kelly comes to mind) no hes not a great not even close

He'd struggle to break the top 60 all time. Don't rate hamed at all... he fought a few good guys but a lot of the 'names' he fought were past their best when he fought them.

It'd be like saying Manfredo beat a Prime Scott Pemperton...

I'd put him in the top 20 or 30 featherweights of all time. A case can be made either way. It's his own fault for falling in love with one punch power and out of his craft or he could have been top 10.

No not at all .

He was exciting to watch but when he stepped up to the plate to face barrera, the weaknesses started to show.

But he did come off the canvas to beat kevin kelly so maybe. But not in the top 10.

Top 10, you must be joking. Top 20 or 30 perhaps, good shout starr.

I think Hamed let himself down. Unfortunately too many people are judging him on his last couple of fights. I watch Hamed throughout his career, and saw him heading towards his end. Hamed really was gifted, and could have done so much more than he did. But he believed his own hype.
There are some similarities with Tyson when he lost. Buster Douglas never beat Tyson, Tyson beat himself! We all know that wasn't the real Tyson in the ring.
Likewise with Hamed, that wasn't the real Hamed in the ring. I'm not saming that he would or wouldn't have beated Barrera, but it certainly would have been a much closer fight. Its no coincidence that in those last fights he was spliting from Brendon Ingle who had trained him all along. He had a tough of the Zab's, i.e. thought he knew better than his trainers.
Did anyone watch the doco made following hi through his training camp prior to the Barrera fight? Its was a joke, there was no way that he was ready. Manny Stewart wanders in towards the end of the training run in to "supervise the sparring", and even that was a joke. Youe could tell that Stewart knew what the result was gonna be.
If you want to see Hamed at his best then watch him against Steve Robinson!!! A world champion that had peoples respect, and people said he was too big and strong for Hamed. That fight made Joe vs Lacy look close :jabbing:
Unfortunately he will always be a "what could have been" :-[

im not an expert on the featherweights of the past, but Naz was the best featherweight of the 90's for sure.

I never thought I would say this ...but..Yes...He defended his title 16 straight times...the WBO 16 times and IBF like 5 times with the WBO Belt...has over 20 title fights only lost 1 of them and retired as a champ....you don't defend any kind of title that many times and not be considered one of the best ever in a division....ok get ready this is the the proof
1. Sandy Saddler-9 title fights lost 1
2. Henry Armstrong- was a welterweight, doesn't count
3. Salvador Sanchez- 9-0 in world title fights..one of if not the best Featherweight ever...
4. Eric Morales-7-2 in world title fights at feather weight
5. Alexis Arguello- first 22 fights his opponents records were a combined 4 wins and 21 losses..not good..6-1 in world title fights at featherweight..not a true FW..went up was more a welterweight..that's where he made his name...
6. Azuma Nelson- 7-1 in world title fights at feather weight..but went up in weight not a true featherweight.
7. Barry McGuigan- 3-1 in world title fights


so i think the Princes 16-1 record in world title defences ranks right up there with any of them...He is definitely in the top 5...the others were either using FW as a stepping stone to higher weights or simply didn't have the defenses to justify putting them ahead of him..or they were never a true Featherweight....I did not include any Nabf-european-IBO or any title not the WBC WBA WBO or IBF..and Nas held the WBC WBO and IBF titles..

top 10, he wouldn't make the top 100, i never liked this flash,disrespecting prat, he made a carreer from beating has beens and never beens

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Originally Posted by nuclear bull

top 10, he wouldn't make the top 100, i never liked this flash,disrespecting prat, he made a carreer from beating has beens and never beens

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look at my post..you are way off....you might not agree with his style but his results speak volumes...He was a great featherweight....

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Originally Posted by nuclear bull

he made a carreer from beating has beens and never beens

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and he looked a bit like Mr Bean too.

http://www.toonhound.com/mrbean-1a.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jonesfan

No way, you cant fight over seas and beat a couple of journey man (kevin kelly comes to mind) no hes not a great not even close

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look at all the other featherweights...he had more title defenses and wins than any of them....how can you say such a thing? get informed before you rush to judgement...

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Originally Posted by nuclear bull

top 10, he wouldn't make the top 100, i never liked this flash,disrespecting prat, he made a carreer from beating has beens and never beens

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this comment is completely without merit and you didn't back it with anything..I honestly think you're just jumping on the bash NAS bandwagon.... :sadclick: to you..a terrible comment....

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

He'd struggle to break the top 60 all time. Don't rate hamed at all... he fought a few good guys but a lot of the 'names' he fought were past their best when he fought them.

It'd be like saying Manfredo beat a Prime Scott Pemperton...

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top 60? are you kidding? a 16-1 record in title fights with 15 of those being consecutive?...it's uneducated posts like this that really p*ss me off.....bone up on those skills and come back with a real comment... :sadclick: for this worthless comment...

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Top 10, you must be joking. Top 20 or 30 perhaps, good shout starr.

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what is with all the NAS bashing...hopping on the bandwagon or do you have anything to justify your comment? does 16-1 in world title fights get you in the top 10? oh wait according to you it doesn't qualify for a top 20.... :sadclick: for this undocumented pathetic comment.

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Top 10, you must be joking. Top 20 or 30 perhaps, good shout starr.

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what is with all the NAS bashing...hopping on the bandwagon or do you have anything top justify you comment? does 16-1 in world title fights get you in the top 10? oh wait according to you it doesn't qualify for a top 20.... for this undocumented comment.

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Just out of intrest where would you put him in the top 10? And who would you put at #1?

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Originally Posted by Feather Fisted

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Top 10, you must be joking. Top 20 or 30 perhaps, good shout starr.

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what is with all the NAS bashing...hopping on the bandwagon or do you have anything top justify you comment? does 16-1 in world title fights get you in the top 10? oh wait according to you it doesn't qualify for a top 20.... for this undocumented comment.

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Just out of intrest where would you put him in the top 10? And who would you put at #1?

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I would put him at 3-5 in the best ever..behind Saddler, Salvador Sanchez (had potential to be #1 but the car crash took him away way too soon), maybe behind Arguello because he was a beast at any weight other than that I don't see anybody higher than him.

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Originally Posted by bigragu

I would put him at 3-5 in the best ever..behind Saddler, Salvador Sanchez (had potential to be #1 but the car crash took him away way too soon), maybe behind Arguello because he was a beast at any weight other than that I don't see anybody higher than him.

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I think he gets judged by most on the basis he had the potential to be alot better than he was, rather than looking at what he actually did. Saying that I know very little about the featherweights of the past so I honestly wouldnt know hwere to place him.

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Originally Posted by Feather Fisted

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Originally Posted by bigragu

I would put him at 3-5 in the best ever..behind Saddler, Salvador Sanchez (had potential to be #1 but the car crash took him away way too soon), maybe behind Arguello because he was a beast at any weight other than that I don't see anybody higher than him.

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I think he gets judged by most on the basis he had the potential to be alot better than he was, rather than looking at what he actually did. Saying that I know very little about the featherweights of the past so I honestly wouldnt know hwere to place him.

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at least you're honest...I remember watching Sanchez and Arguello fight and nelson and Mcguigan...The late 70's and 80's were a great time for featherweight boxing and boxing in just about every weight class lhw and down....the 80's were great for fight fans....

he couldn't live through hardship where his heart was needed most, basically when he lost against Barrera.....He wasn't shot by any means, but Barrera took his manhood............great fighters come back and pick themselves up while their down, Naz never did that.

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Originally Posted by nuclear bull

top 10, he wouldn't make the top 100, i never liked this flash,disrespecting prat, he made a carreer from beating has beens and never beens

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:lolhaha: you are joking right?!? Talk about letting emotions and personal feelings cloud facts. There is no way that you could not put Hamed in the top 100!!!

When looking back at fighters that are worth looking at, we usually attach titles to them such as "great" "top 10" "top 25" or whatever without truly thinking.

Nas was a GOOD fighter, but he was never great. Ok Hamed could be considered a champ for all those fights, but come one, the WBO????? So are we gonna say Ricky was a world champ when he beat Vince Phillips? Thats plain silly. The IBF has a bit more credibility, but the fact remains, when Hamed step up to the true big boys of the division, he came severely unstuck. Barrera truly outclassed him. A true champion or in fact anyone who deserves a place on a top anything list comes back from that sort of fight in some way shape or form. Hamed could of set himself up to take on other big guns, but no. Hamed decided to quit after being outclassed and therefore there will always be severe doubt over his career. If you look at the facts, it appears Hamed was just a short step below the best. Had he come back and learned from what he did wrong as all true greats do, things might of been different.

Most people speak from hate of Naz and didn't follow his career and only watched the Barerra fight. I don't know how Barerra can get an off night against Pacquiao but Hamed was destroyed by Barerra and is there for overrated ::** double standards.

Looking at it, I would put Hamed somewhere in the top 10 or so not because of his accomplishments, but because of his consistancy, Hamed would crack my top 10 if he had stayed true to his craft. I think Hamed that beat Robinson would be the top 5 featherweight of all time, and if he had stayed true to it I'd have no problem saying it. But Hamed, read the newspapers, and he fell in love with that one punch power, and he went away from his craft and away from his style and just depended on awkwardness and one punch power, not the combinations or counter punching. On accomplishments Hamed would crack the top 5 on accomplishments and title defenses. But given his potential shown in the Robinson fight, he should have accomplished more in my opinion. His accomplishment and credentials could crack the top 5 in title defenses and etc.. given all that, he should have done more given what he had in terms of talent and potential to accomplish, which is why he'd be top 10 or so on mine.

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by nuclear bull

top 10, he wouldn't make the top 100, i never liked this flash,disrespecting prat, he made a carreer from beating has beens and never beens

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look at my post..you are way off....you might not agree with his style but his results speak volumes...He was a great featherweight....

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Your post is irrelevant though.

The people you mentioned didn't defend their tittles against the people nas did. its like saying klitchkov goes on a great tittle defence run, the comparing him to Ali down to the fact of tittle defences lol

Take Calzaghe, most people from the states didn't rate him, called him everyname under the sun, if a Jeff lacy didn't come along, calzaghes title defences would of been said to be a collection of nobody's and hes reign thought to be a joke.

The Barrera who beat him, was imo not even close to being the great fighter he has become. Nas v Barrera then, nas was in his prim, sure he wasn't prolly working as hard to get into the fight right, but age wise he should of been in his prime. If he was stupid enough to half ass his training and the rest of the crap he done then, there is a valid point of putting him in the top 100 - hate nas but i wouldn't know where to put him as i don't know enough about the other fighters..

But lets face it, raw natural speed, power and talent still doesn't make you a top 10 fighter - and imo nas proved that to us all

only thing i am sure on, is a prime Barrera, prime morales and prime pacquio would of all either stopped or KO 'the prince' - some will disagree but that I'd bet my house on.

and to AC-Cobra

Hamed won every featherweight "alphabet" title I think and he never lost them in the ring until he fought Barerra.

Naseem was good superb, but IMO he is not all-time top 10.

The Featherweights are an incredibly talented group of fighters; my all-time list goes:

10: Salvador Sanchez
9: Joey Archibald
8: Azumah Nelson
7: Johnny Kilbane
6: George Dixon
5: Henry Armstrong
4; Eusebio Pedroza
3: Abe Attell
2: Willie Pep
1: Sandy Saddler

Honorary mentions: Young Griffo, Terry McGovern, Jim Driscoll, Bat Battalino, Hogan ‘Kid’ Bassey, Davey Moore, Sugar Ramos, Vicente Saldivar, Eder Jofre, Antonio Esparragoza, Naseem Hamed and Marco Antonio Barrera

Mentions: Ben Jordan, Young Corbett II, Johnny Dundee, Kid Kaplan, Tony Canzoneri, Kid Chocolate, Baby Arizmendi, Chalky Wright, Howard Winstone, Alexis Arguello, Danny Lopez, Juan LaPorte, Jeff Fenech, Marcos Villasana, Tom Johnson, Kevin Kelley, Eloy Rojas, Manuel Medina, Wilfred Vazquez, Erik Morales, and Manny Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by Starr

and to AC-Cobra

Hamed won every featherweight "alphabet" title I think and he never lost them in the ring until he fought Barerra.

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Hey Starr, if thats true, sorry. I was just responding to bigragu putting stock in those two belts and got my facts twisted.

Being only 18 I only saw a few Nas fights live, the Kelly one first and fell in love with him then, like a lot of othr fans in England. While I dont hate Nas, I suppose you could describe me as bitter that the Barrera fight ended his career. What I wished had happened was that that fight brought him back to his senses and made him focus more on his undeniable skills where he could of come back and challenged the best.

I think our difference in opinions comes in a glass half full, glass half empty kind of way. Where you focus on where Nas excelled, I'm guilty of dwelling on where he failed and always thinking what he could of been. That being said I'm not sure I would ever place him top 10 of all time at FW. Top 25 maybe but not top 10

I focused on where Nas excelled and where he failed. Naz was a very great fighter in his hay day, when he would use combinations and counter punching defense and angles and a shotgun jab. And he had that one punch power but it was never part of the gameplan to look for one shot, him just having it is what made him so unique.

But then he fell in love with that power and went away from his craft and became a guy who depended on awkwardness and just waiting to land one shot no matter what happened. That is why Barerra was able to outbox him. But the Naz that fought Steve Robinson, that used all those skills he had utilized I would pick against Barerra.

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Originally Posted by Starr

I focused on where Nas excelled and where he failed. Naz was a very great fighter in his hay day, when he would use combinations and counter punching defense and angles and a shotgun jab. And he had that one punch power but it was never part of the gameplan to look for one shot, him just having it is what made him so unique.

But then he fell in love with that power and went away from his craft and became a guy who depended on awkwardness and just waiting to land one shot no matter what happened. That is why Barerra was able to outbox him. But the Naz that fought Steve Robinson, that used all those skills he had utilized I would pick against Barerra.

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:coolclick: nice points. Never seen the Steve Robinson fight so I'll take your word for it, but the way you put it surely the fact that he fell in love with that one punch and his career detiorated as a result would sink him out of any top 10 list rather than one night of great performance catapulting you in there?

i don't agree star, Robinson just looked plain amateurish imo
any slick boxer would of made Robinson look like a fool

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

I'll take your word for it, but the way you put it surely the fact that he fell in love with that one punch and his career detiorated as a result would sink him out of any top 10 list.

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That is why I said I would put him in the top 10 or so. For that reason.

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Originally Posted by The_One77

i don't agree star, Robinson just looked plain amateurish imo
any slick boxer would of made Robinson look like a fool

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Robinson only looked amateurish because Hamed made him look that way ;)

There is such a marked difference in Naz with Brendan Ingle, and after they split. Although the Kelley fight went down well in the US (the last fight with Ingle), those in the UK who had followed his career from the early days were mightily worried, and it turned out to be the beginning of the end. As unconventional as Ingle's methods were, that style was the perfect vehicle for his natural attributes (lighning reflexes allowed him to get away with the hands-by-the-side defence, insane angles made the most of his undoubted power). Suarez and Steward took the edge of this style, and turned Naz into nothing more than a decent counterpuncher with a shit defence. As has been mentioned, the focus was all on his one punch power, and he got hit a lot more since he was planting his feet much more and was less mobile. I would say that the last 9 fights of his career (post Ingle, and Kelley) included the 6 worst performances of his career: Kelley, McCulloch, Soto, Sanchez, Barrera, Calvo.
I'd still have him in a top ten feather list though... :)

A decent article on his fall from grace: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport...774621,00.html

forgot to mention, my favourite performance was Tom Johnson. He was superb that nite...

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

I'll take your word for it, but the way you put it surely the fact that he fell in love with that one punch and his career detiorated as a result would sink him out of any top 10 list.

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That is why I said I would put him in the top 10 or so. For that reason.

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Originally Posted by The_One77

i don't agree star, Robinson just looked plain amateurish imo
any slick boxer would of made Robinson look like a fool

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Robinson only looked amateurish because Hamed made him look that way ;)

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I would of beaten Robinson! ;D
The guy just crouched in a shell the whole time...and when he did attack, he threw these amateurish hooks that Naseem could see a mile away.
lol, im pretty sure my bro said that same thing to you not long ago at this website.

Is this a real f*cking question?

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Originally Posted by The_One77

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

I'll take your word for it, but the way you put it surely the fact that he fell in love with that one punch and his career detiorated as a result would sink him out of any top 10 list.

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That is why I said I would put him in the top 10 or so. For that reason.

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Originally Posted by The_One77

i don't agree star, Robinson just looked plain amateurish imo
any slick boxer would of made Robinson look like a fool

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Robinson only looked amateurish because Hamed made him look that way ;)

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I would of beaten Robinson! ;D
The guy just crouched in a shell the whole time...and when he did attack, he threw these amateurish hooks that Naseem could see a mile away.
lol, im pretty sure my bro said that same thing to you not long ago at this website.

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Is that the only time you saw Robinson?

i saw him knock out Duke Mackenzie with a body shot

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Originally Posted by The_One77

i don't agree star, Robinson just looked plain amateurish imo
any slick boxer would of made Robinson look like a fool

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Robinson was a quality champion. Wouldn't say that he was anything outstanding, but definetly worth his title. Hamed just totally destroyed him that night. I would say that beating made Calazagi vs Lacy look close. Its such a shame to see that he had all that talent and just wasted it