Wladimir v Toney: "This fight needs to happen!!"

www.eastsideboxing.com

19.05.2006 — By Valerij “Rudolph” Calmic: The famed Emmanuel Steward made an intriguing hint about Wladimir Klitschko’s nearest plans in his recent interview, saying, in part, while the other champions are busy, his pupil may fight James Toney some time around September this year. He explained the choice of James Toney with the fact that the others will be more difficult to negotiate with.

Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, Toney agrees. Incredibly, if this bout comes off, this would be the 3rd shot at a heavyweight title for Toney, in a little over a year. Of course there’s a question of Toney’s ratings, since he doesn’t appear to be listed within the IBF’s top 15. Although, if the money is right, he’ll definitely pop up somewhere between numbers 5 and 2, I’d be willing to bet. Besides, Toney has already previously leap-frogged Oleg Maskaev in the WBC ratings, when Toney fought for the title instead of Maskaev, who was just fresh out of an elimination victory.

Nevertheless, the question remains whether or not the IBF would sanction this bout between their champion Wladimir Klitschko and James Toney. However, there’s another way out of the situation. This fight could be made as an IBO championship match, of which Klitschko is also a title holder. James Toney occupies position number 6 in the IBO rankings, if I’m not mistaken. However, neither of the fighters will get many accolades for such a “championship.”

Thank God, we have The Ring Magazine. Many think that The Ring’s ratings and titles are much more objective than all others, and they’re right, simply because The Ring doesn’t charge any commission fees for their ratings and titles. This excludes any possibility of corruption. This doesn’t exclude subjectivity, of course, but unlike the alphabet bodies, The Ring cares about its image and reputation. For the time being, their heavyweight belt is currently vacant. Wladimir and Toney are ranked at numbers 1 and 3 respectively. What do we get from a fight between these two? A long awaited Ring champion, that’s what. Now that’s something worth fighting for, don’t you think?

But why is Steward so sure of Klitschko’s victory? Isn’t it the same Steward who not so long ago suggested that no one bet against Toney? I decided to try and think about this match-up as if it was a done deal.
Place of fight

Let’s start with the place. Where should it happen, in USA or Germany? I think Toney must answer that question. Like Chris Byrd, he’s not getting any younger. And, like Byrd, he’s probably thinking about a well deserved rest. Like Byrd, he’ll probably require a little bonus over the promoter’s guaranteed minimum.

Everybody knows that Klitschko can sell out an arena in Germany, even if he fights Serena Williams. Whereas, James Toney is moderately popular in the U.S.. But there’s something that can turn this fight from and “interesting match-up” into a mega-event. I’m talking about Toney’s big mouth.

After having studied the attitudes on a few American based web-sites and forums, I came to an interesting conclusion: the usually patriotic American fight fans can’t wait for someone to shove Toney’s sometimes controversial comments back down his throat. No doubt, they are ready to support anyone in this deed, even a much hated European with a “glass jaw and no heart,” a comment that they make quite often about Wladimir. If so, the location of the bout doesn’t matter at all, for tickets will sell in both Germany and the States.

Psychological war:

Now, about the mental part of the fight. Rest assured that Toney will do his usual thing to help sell the fight; i.e., cursing, swearing, perhaps, talking about Klitschko’s relatives, reminding him of all his losses, making up stories about Wladimir quitting.

Let’s assume that whether Klitschko gets mad or scared, it’s already a small victory for Toney. But I wouldn’t count on that. Today an angry Klitschko is something very different from what he was like under Fritz Sdunek. There will never be an old fashioned non-stop blizzard of punches, no matter who’s in front of him. If Toney thinks that Klitschko will rush him like someone named Vassily Jirov, he can forget about it. And if he manages to scare Wladimir with his mental attacks, then he won’t get a convincing victory anyway. Klitschko will run, jab, hold, run and jab again, and the judges will at least score it a draw.

Shape and stamina:

Well, let’s be honest here, getting himself into decent shape has been Toney’s weakest spot at heavyweight while campaigning as a heavyweight, and as many of you already know, fat heavies are said to have a spare tire around their wastes. That said, Toney’s problem is that his spare tire doesn’t just seem to come from his “hatchback, but rather, it looks more like it was stolen from a passenger bus or a huge quarry truck. I don’t know about you, but it seems he gets heavier and heavier with every fight, regardless of the circumstances. With that kind of track record, the chances are that by fight time, the 5’9” Toney might even outweigh the 6’6” 240 lbs. Klitschko. On top of that, Toney’s habit of 4 or 5 cigars per day doesn’t exactly improve you stamina, either, I would say.

As for Wladimir’s physical form, I expect everything to be in tip-top shape, with not a bit of flab around his midsection. The camp at Poconos always keeps its doors wide open for such customers. I believe that their shape will be the defining factor in this bout. Why? I’ll explain a bit later, under “The fight.”

What can be suggested to James Toney? Well, first of all, to put a hard steel chain around his fridge, along with a big lock, and then to swallow the key. Secondly, he needs to start hitting the treadmill as soon as possible, if he hopes to take off the weight by September. Or better yet, RIGHT NOW.

There is only one suggestion to Wladimir: he must get himself prepared for full 12 rounds of a high paced fight, with lots of action because Toney will likely apply a lot of pressure from beginning to end. Further, Wladimir must deny Toney any chances to rest during the fight, something that he likes to do, often exhibited by his laying against the ropes, giving himself a muchly needed breather.

Technique:

Both fighters are technically sound, there’s no arguing about that. However, at least Toney’s technique leaves no questions, since he’s a highly skilled fighter that few fighters can match. As for Klitschko being a stiff fighter, only those who still can’t tell the brothers apart say that. Yet, regardless of what people say, technique alone doesn’t win fights. Rather, it’s the physical capabilities and how a fighter multiplies them with his technique is what matters most.

Wladimir Klitschko is a masterful long distance boxer, there’s no doubt about it. Though not well known, Wladimir, has never really trailed in a fight, as his ability to control a fight with his left lab, left hook, keep him well ahead, even in the fights he lost by knockout. Really, there’s only one way to beat Wladimir, and that’s by stopping him, otherwise, you’re in for a long night of eating jabs.

Essentially, Toney’s realm is a mid to close range fighter, who is more of a throwback fighter to the fighters of old, when they gutted it out on the inside, throwing devastating body punches. This is understandable, certainly, given Toney’s severe height disadvantage and relatively short arms, even in light heavyweight standards. However, Toney knows how to fight on the outside, as well. For example, he knows how to throw a well-timed jab, which is kind of a strange looking jab, I might add, not by the book. He throws it from his waist, with his elbow higher than his fist, but still, it’s a very well-timed and an effective jab, all the same. Toney also knows how throw an unexpected right swing over the top. However, his growing girth is clearly becoming an obstacle, because this counter punch is quite physically demanding from the way Toney throws it. I mean, it takes effort and time to first dodge the opponent’s jab and then to shift his weight from the back foot onto the front foot and so forth. Against Rahman, however, this punch was not as effective as in Toney’s previous bouts, for when he would attempt to throw it, he often missed and lost balance, which made him run half way across the ring in order not to fall. Likewise, there was a small episode when Rahman was able to counter with his own right hand after a missed right swing from Toney, and lucky for him, Toney had his left hand up, thus blocking Rahman’s shot.

Not surprisingly, I feel that Wladimir’s work at long range is something very pleasant to see. Once I was thinking about musical analogies among boxers. I see James Toney as a saxophone player, whereas Nikolai Valuev is probably the stand-up bass, and, as for Wladimir Klitschko, I think he reminds me of a rhythm-guitar, in the sense that, all he does is very sharp, accurate, and right by the notes. Sometimes he gives out short but very solid “solos,” like some rhythm-guitarists like to do from time to time, pleasing the listeners and surprising the lead-guitarist.

About the defense:

Everything is very simple with Wladimir’s defense. For instance, he blocks most punches, while at the same time, jumping back away from danger; he has also developed a very reliable block against a left hook (thank you, Manny), and when in close quarters, he holds and applies little dirty tricks, such as a quick uppercut to the head. It’s not a knockout punch by any means, but it definitely gets his opponent’s attention. On the other hand, Toney’s defense is something completely different. First of all, he tries to dodge punches in such a way as to put himself into position to throw a counter right hand. Something that he used quite effectively against Rahman, because he simply doesn’t seem to know how to throw a jab without jumping forward a yard, leaving himself open for Toney’s right hand counter. As a rule Rahman would miss with the jab, while Toney didn’t even need to take a step forward before Rahman was already within Toney’s range. Thus, Toney’s defense is the beginning of his attack. Wladimir, indeed, is quite different. He either defends himself, or attacks, although rarely does he do both at the same time.
The fight

I won’t write much about this, other than saying that a well prepared Wladimir will need to move the entire bout, never stopping even for a moment. Moreover, he needs to stay busy, firing off constant punches, if he wants to come out on top. Whereas, Toney loses simply because he throws less punches, can’t keep up with the pace, takes pauses and experiences difficulties with reaching Wladimir.

For his part, Wladimir simply has much longer arms, is much taller and moves around the ring faster than many would like to admit. So, with all these assets on his side, will this victory spell victory for the big Ukrainian? You bet. However, Wladimir supporters should get themselves prepared for statements like, “This was a marathon, not a boxing match” and “He didn’t fight like a man,” and other such nonsense from fans of Toney. No doubt, Sam Peter’s fans will grow in numbers, and there will appear a crowded James Toney fan-club in the politically correct Russia.
My official prediction.

Some might say, “what kind of a prediction are you making where there is no knockout on either side?” I understand your displeasure, especially since John Ruiz, a relatively light puncher, was able to land his jab and left-right combinations, quite frequently in his bout with Toney, and even rocking Toney with one of his right hands. Further, some might people might also say, “what if Wladimir hits him with his patented left jab, right cross? Well, the thing is, James Toney may be loud, but he’s no fool. I felt that he deliberately let Ruiz get away with a lot of punches, simply because he knew: “I’ll still out punch this Teddy Bear, no matter what he throws and how many times he connects.” Yet with Hasim Rahman, it was already a totally different story. Toney was much more diligent at slipping Rahman’s jabs and power punches. This tells us only one thing: James Toney never underestimates his foes, no matter what he says in public.

However, the above description is not my official prediction. My prediction is like this: Toney takes this fight seriously and goes into intensive preparation, realizing, that this isn’t the kind of fight you can win on talent alone. And that’s when he pulls a ligament, tears a biceps or gets stomach ulcer. And if this happens (and I’m pretty sure it will), I have a question. Will the Klitschko supporters have the right to say that Wladimir sent Toney into retirement? I mean, almost no one denied themselves the pleasure of patting Rahman on the shoulder for “retiring” an injured Vitali Klitshko, right?

An interesting article, and its a fight I would relish seeing with only 1 condition imposed.....Toney must put in the pre requsite gym work and actually start some road work, otherwise I just cant imagine toney being able to overcome such huge physical disadvantages....

a focussed toney could be very competitive though....

Personally...I see no merit in this fight.

Toney has proven nothing at heavyweight...he really hasn't.

I mean...he got a little less fat & juiced up on roids to beat Ruiz, an extinct Holyfield, an unmotivated Guinn, he lost to Rahman (he lost that fight!), & then beat that blown up dopehead...Booker.

Toney has done NOTHING at heavy IWO...Wlad would dominate him...but I just don't see it proving anything. Being fat & able to throw punches does not a heavyweight make.

I'd have to agree with Miles,someone,somewhere,somehow force Toney to train PROPERLY(he did not train at all for the Rahman fight,no way!) and I would be interested in seeing this. On the other hand,if the fight comes off,I could be made to look like a fool with that statement and I think people want to see Wlad fight Brewster etc. To be honest,none of these fights in the HW divsion sound particularly exciting to me but then again,neither did Brewster Lyakovich!

Both of you make excellent points. Toney is infuriating at heavyweight. I like Toney and he has achieved a lot over the years, but Wacko is right. At heavyweight he hasnt proved all that much.

A focussed Toney is capable of giving an interesting account of himself, but can Toney at 37 really get himself into the best possible condition? I just dont know.

He would need to be in shape with no excuses, otherwise Wlad may very well beat down upon him....that would be a painful way to see out a career....

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Personally...I see no merit in this fight.

Toney has proven nothing at heavyweight...he really hasn't.

I mean...he got a little less fat & juiced up on roids to beat Ruiz, an extinct Holyfield, an unmotivated Guinn, he lost to Rahman (he lost that fight!), & then beat that blown up dopehead...Booker.

Toney has done NOTHING at heavy IWO...Wlad would dominate him...but I just don't see it proving anything. Being fat & able to throw punches does not a heavyweight make.

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You're right Wack. :coolclick:

This fight needs not to happen.

If the Heavyweight division is going to resurrect itself, I see it alll resting on Wladdy's shoulders. IMO he should go about unifying, wiping out the weakest first. Take on Valuev in and Eastern block mega fight - no matter what you say, this fight would sell. Then take on one punch Rahman, who Wlad would equally destroy. The Wlad is the man in the division, people have to come to him. By this point Brock, the Igrabimov's, Peter will have improved further without ruining their careers by going for broke too soon.

Imagine it, a clear heavyweight champ (who could become undisputed by taking on Lyakovich or whoever else has the belt), and a plethora of top contenders. Ooops ive got myself all over excited, time to stop drooling.........

CC miles great article


i have to disagree w/ wacko ,toney woulda done what he did to holyfeild if it was the holyfeild that was only 37 (in my opinion!) ..he has fought championship opposition and they are teh ones that need excuses not toney

dominick guin is no sloutch he just was out-thought in the ring ....i dont care what happens or who james fought or what excuse ...James toney is 5'9 and an overweight middle weight that is effectivly competeing at the championship level almost 15 yrs after he won his 1st title...hes never been KO'd and only lost 4 times

he is an old retired fat boxer that is disgusted w/ the heavyweight division and says "Look what i can still do" he makes that sh*t look easy (which is hard for ANY boxer to do)

james toney is at the least CONSISTANT ...he shows up ready to fight ..he is a very very mean and tough individual and you will never see him crap out on a fight or quit or pull a Tyson he will apply his trade for 12 rounds and talk sh*t ...in my opinion James Toney proves alot everytime he leaves the ring un-beatup looking lol

James toney is a brilliant specimen and i wouldnt always defend him like this but i am honestly and seriously in complete awe of the man .....

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Originally Posted by means2184

CC miles great article


i have to disagree w/ wacko ,toney woulda done what he did to holyfeild if it was the holyfeild that was only 37 (in my opinion!) ..he has fought championship opposition and they are teh ones that need excuses not toney

dominick guin is no sloutch he just was out-thought in the ring ....i dont care what happens or who james fought or what excuse ...James toney is 5'9 and an overweight middle weight that is effectivly competeing at the championship level almost 15 yrs after he won his 1st title...hes never been KO'd and only lost 4 times

he is an old retired fat boxer that is disgusted w/ the heavyweight division and says "Look what i can still do" he makes that sh*t look easy (which is hard for ANY boxer to do)

james toney is at the least CONSISTANT ...he shows up ready to fight ..he is a very very mean and tough individual and you will never see him crap out on a fight or quit or pull a Tyson he will apply his trade for 12 rounds and talk sh*t ...in my opinion James Toney proves alot everytime he leaves the ring un-beatup looking lol

James toney is a brilliant specimen and i owuldnt alwasy defend him like this but i am honestly and seriously in complete awe of the man .....

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interesting posting, means and :coolclick: right back

Toney has been a fantastic fighter for a long time. At heavyweight Toney has been drifting when compared to the rest of his career. Its frustrating for me (a toney fan) because if he turned up in shape against these heavyweights then he could be awesome and i mean awesome as opposed to just good....

if a fight with wlad takes place i will be seriously concerned if his conditioning is less than pleasing....he will need to be physically and not just mentally prepared....

If toney can become focused and loose a bit of weight, this could go either way. Toney is very skilled.

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Originally Posted by miles

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interesting posting, means and :coolclick: right back

Toney has been a fantastic fighter for a long time. At heavyweight Toney has been drifting when compared to the rest of his career. Its frustrating for me (a toney fan) because if he turned up in shape against these heavyweights then he could be awesome and i mean awesome as opposed to just good....

if a fight with wlad takes place i will be seriously concerned if his conditioning is less than pleasing....he will need to be physically and not just mentally prepared....
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ur right there ,i do think he could DEFINATLY tone up a little more ..the fight w/ rahman toney was pushing it and if u notice he did flinch when gettin hit w/ some tummy shots ...i dont really care about the numbers of his weight because at his age i think over training makes u stale and id hate to see him come in weak or sluggish but thinner ...i would like to see toney be no less or more than 225-30

i hope he can tone up more ...but i am almost to the point of assuming he has a ligitimate weight problem and this IS him toned and light as possible :o in which case i'm gonna enjoy him while hes still here!

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Originally Posted by means2184

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Originally Posted by miles

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interesting posting, means and :coolclick: right back

Toney has been a fantastic fighter for a long time. At heavyweight Toney has been drifting when compared to the rest of his career. Its frustrating for me (a toney fan) because if he turned up in shape against these heavyweights then he could be awesome and i mean awesome as opposed to just good....

if a fight with wlad takes place i will be seriously concerned if his conditioning is less than pleasing....he will need to be physically and not just mentally prepared....

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ur right there ,i do think he could DEFINATLY tone up a little more ..the fight w/ rahman toney was pushing it and if u notice he did flinch when gettin hit w/ some tummy shots ...i dont really care about the numbers of his weight because at his age i think over training makes u stale and id hate to see him come in weak or sluggish but thinner ...i would like to see toney be no less or more than 225-30

i hope he can tone up more ...but i am almost to the point of assuming he has a ligitimate weight problem and this IS him toned and light as possible :o in which case i'm gonna enjoy him while hes still here!
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if his weight really is a problem for him then i really think its time for him to get out of the hurt game....its senseless carrying this bulk and if he does so against wlad then it could turn messy.....wlad is a darn site better than rahman and from memory toney just scraped a draw with rahman....

who really knows what goes on in toneys head at the end of the day?! :-\

Can any one really see Toney doing better the Byrd did against Wlad? honestly?

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Can any one really see Toney doing better the Byrd did against Wlad? honestly?

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he could but only with the one proviso ive said before....he needs to be serious in training. but im doubtful if he can do that, so otherwise im inclined to agree with you....

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Personally...I see no merit in this fight.

Toney has proven nothing at heavyweight...he really hasn't.

I mean...he got a little less fat & juiced up on roids to beat Ruiz, an extinct Holyfield, an unmotivated Guinn, he lost to Rahman (he lost that fight!), & then beat that blown up dopehead...Booker.

Toney has done NOTHING at heavy IWO...Wlad would dominate him...but I just don't see it proving anything. Being fat & able to throw punches does not a heavyweight make.

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EXACTLY!!!

These morons at Eastside think that all Wlad does is jab and hold...tell that to Chris Byrd and Sam Peter. Yeah he clinches every so often but he also lays the smackdown on whoever is in the ring with him.

If anyone wants to see James Toney get his fat ass beat into submission then yeah this fight needs to be made but I'm a Wlad fan and I HATE James Toney but this fight does nothing for Wlad and the title.

Toney needs to hang it up, or he's gonna get hurt

This fight would be an embarrising mismatch, Brutal Ko 4. to Wlad obviously

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Originally Posted by skel1983

This fight would be an embarrising mismatch, Brutal Ko 4. to Wlad obviously

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No Way wlad stops toney in 4! ;D

toney, being the way he's been would get beaten but no way as easy as that!

But Toney the way he is would probably get stopped down the stretch....

james toney needs to go on the subway diet if hes to be a match for wlad otherwise its good night and lights out mr chubby.

Boxingtalk.com reported that Light's Out rejected a Wlad-Toney bout.

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Originally Posted by growingupGatti

Boxingtalk.com reported that Light's Out rejected a Wlad-Toney bout.

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He said the amount offered was not enough. They would need to give a whole shit load of cash to go to Germany to face Wlad, and fair enough really.

Personally Im holding out for Sam Peter or Nicolai Valuev to finally bury the damn Klitschko.

Toney's never been KO'd, make it happen Wlad! ;D

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by growingupGatti

Boxingtalk.com reported that Light's Out rejected a Wlad-Toney bout.

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He said the amount offered was not enough. They would need to give a whole shit load of cash to go to Germany to face Wlad, and fair enough really.

Personally Im holding out for Sam Peter or Nicolai Valuev to finally bury the damn Klitschko.

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Wlad's next fight is in Madison Square Garden NY...so he's not fighting in Germany...next excuse please!


I would like to see him fight Brewster again or Brock or end Sam Peter's career

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by growingupGatti

Boxingtalk.com reported that Light's Out rejected a Wlad-Toney bout.

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He said the amount offered was not enough. They would need to give a whole S*** load of cash to go to Germany to face Wlad, and fair enough really.

Personally Im holding out for Sam Peter or Nicolai Valuev to finally bury the damn Klitschko.

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Wlad's next fight is in Madison Square Garden NY...so he's not fighting in Germany...next excuse please!


I would like to see him fight Brewster again or Brock or end Sam Peter's career

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I see you are no longer THE Lyle. Guess you took my criticism to heart then :P