Nationalism, I'm all for it.

This was a topic that has been brought up be for, but I think that the Nationalism displayed here is a good thing. There are people that rut for a fighter just because he's from their home country. I have several Russian friends that are very proud of V. Klichko (or however it's spelled), and they don't even watch boxing, unless he's fighting. :jabbing:
Of late it's been the Americans vs. The Brits. Some people take themselves too seriously, but I think they will get over it. And it is probably the easyest way to get a rise out of people. Watch.

True, it gets a RISE out of people. But in some ways, if you only root for a guy cuz he's from your country, isnt that prejudiced? I'm black american, yet my favorite fighter is Erik Morales. When Tito fought Hopkins, I, like the 17,000 Puerto Ricans in MSG that night, cheered Tito all the way to the end.

Nationalism is good to a point. When it turns into prejudice, then its a problem.

Good point, but I think that very often it allows people to forget their own problems with one another and gives them something to agree on. Hatten for example.

Yeah, but people get so caught up in what they're saying simply because their fighter is from their hometown that they let it jade their perception of real life. And thats the problem with prejudice. Who cares where a fighter's from? Why not just root for the guy you like more?

I live in New York. Does that mean I have to only root for the Yankees or the Mets?

Not necessarily, if u lived in Cal. would u rut for the Yankees. Probably not, but may be. Some people call it rutting for the home team. In highschool did u cheer for the school from the other side of town or the school that u went to? I live in Florida, do I rut for the Jets? No f-ing way. But I don't resent anyone who does. It's part of being a fan. And if someone is going to be bigoted about you or anyone else, there is allot more to it than boxing.

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Originally Posted by Weebels

This was a topic that has been brought up be for, but I think that the Nationalism displayed here is a good thing. There are people that rut for a fighter just because he's from their home country. I have several Russian friends that are very proud of V. Klichko (or however it's spelled), and they don't even watch boxing, unless he's fighting. :jabbing:
Of late it's been the Americans vs. The Brits. Some people take themselves too seriously, but I think they will get over it. And it is probably the easyest way to get a rise out of people. Watch.

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It's just having pride in your home....wherever that is...nothing wrong with that...I am a die hard Buckeye fan and my ex-wife was a wolverine fan...wait she's my ex for a reason...to hell with michsh*Tigan...and any of their friggin fans... :boxing2: take that michsh*tigan!!!! what was this post about?!?!

Or in the latest case the Americans were mostly rooting for Ricky until they realised how much the ref. was helping him. Americans boxing fans love Ricky because he is tough hard working. I think most Americans also want him to win because he is white just as they like to see black and Latin hocky players, tennis players and rodeo bull riders win. Most Americans love to see old fighters like Hopkins and Forman kick all the young guys butts too--Americans love underdogs.

In my opinion most American "fans" could care less what country a fighter is from unless the fighter is coming from their home city or something. Most other countries are much more biased.

I will say though that I have seen a big rise in unfair desicions against forriegn fighters via American Judges and refs but these kinds of people definately do not represent the average American boxing fan.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

True, it gets a RISE out of people. But in some ways, if you only root for a guy cuz he's from your country, isnt that prejudiced? I'm black american, yet my favorite fighter is Erik Morales. When Tito fought Hopkins, I, like the 17,000 Puerto Ricans in MSG that night, cheered Tito all the way to the end.

Nationalism is good to a point. When it turns into prejudice, then its a problem.

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Absolutely, but I dont think it is that fine of a line...nationalism is rooting FOR someone and prejudice is more often rooting AGAINST someone!! And I can definitely relate to folks who like fighters from a different background than they are...as a white American my favs are Mayweather, Taylor, Oscar and Corrales!! One of my MexicanAmerican friends recently gave me a pleasant surprise by rooting for Pacman over Morales---even tho I was pulling for Erik...it is a VERY HEALTHY thing to pull for people who are different than you are in whatever endeavor that may be!! ;D

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Originally Posted by maracho

Or in the latest case the Americans were mostly rooting for Ricky until they realised how much the ref. was helping him. Americans boxing fans love Ricky because he is tough hard working. I think most Americans also want him to win because he is white just as they like to see black and Latin hocky players, tennis players and rodeo bull riders win. Most Americans love to see old fighters like Hopkins and Forman kick all the young guys butts too--Americans love underdogs.

In my opinion most American "fans" could care less what country a fighter is from unless the fighter is coming from their home city or something. Most other countries are much more biased.

I will say though that I have seen a big rise in unfair desicions against forriegn fighters via American Judges and refs but these kinds of people definately do not represent the average American boxing fan.

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You just brought out my NATIONALISTIC side ;D...seeing as how I think most other countries have more unfair decisions than U.S. does against foreign fighters...especially in Thailand and Germany!!

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Originally Posted by CrunchTime

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Originally Posted by maracho

Or in the latest case the Americans were mostly rooting for Ricky until they realised how much the ref. was helping him. Americans boxing fans love Ricky because he is tough hard working. I think most Americans also want him to win because he is white just as they like to see black and Latin hocky players, tennis players and rodeo bull riders win. Most Americans love to see old fighters like Hopkins and Forman kick all the young guys butts too--Americans love underdogs.

In my opinion most American "fans" could care less what country a fighter is from unless the fighter is coming from their home city or something. Most other countries are much more biased.

I will say though that I have seen a big rise in unfair desicions against forriegn fighters via American Judges and refs but these kinds of people definately do not represent the average American boxing fan.

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You just brought out my NATIONALISTIC side ;D...seeing as how I think most other countries have more unfair decisions than U.S. does against foreign fighters...especially in Thailand and Germany!!

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Yea the U.S. is definately far from the worst in that respect.

Its fine rooting for your hometown/fellow country man, but as a true boxing fan you should recognise ability and the outcome of a fight. Just because you support a fighter, doesn't mean that you have to blinker off every view and defend them despite everything. i.e. you can support Kosta and still accept that he got his ass handed to him ;D

personally speaking, i just dont believe in nationalism...

i like a fighter and thats it, nationality is an irrelevancy for me....

I think must often I root for the boxer I think I have something in common with. Which I pretty easy since I'm English, Irish, Scottish, Italian, and a little German. Nationality is the hook that gets fans involved sometimes, especially when you know nothing about them. And I will continue to do something that I find disrespectful, or insulting. Look I used to be a Carl Fogerty (world superbike) fan, until he started stalking shit about the American racers, and fans. My son and I always pick a fighter before the fight starts, and if we don't know the fighters we pick one anyway. Who knows might end up being a fan.

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Originally Posted by Weebels

I think must often I root for the boxer I think I have something in common with. Which I pretty easy since I'm English, Irish, Scottish, Italian, and a little German. Nationality is the hook that gets fans involved sometimes, especially when you know nothing about them. And I will continue to do something that I find disrespectful, or insulting. Look I used to be a Carl Fogerty (world superbike) fan, until he started stalking S*** about the American racers, and fans. My son and I always pick a fighter before the fight starts, and if we don't know the fighters we pick one anyway. Who knows might end up being a fan.

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is that really about nationalism?

nationlism is a good thing imo
but sometimes it goes too far, and really gets out of hand

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Originally Posted by The_One77

nationlism is a good thing imo
but sometimes it goes too far, and really gets out of hand

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nationalism is pure bullshit.....read 1984 or study some politics....

nationalism is nothing cool....

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Weebels

I think must often I root for the boxer I think I have something in common with. Which I pretty easy since I'm English, Irish, Scottish, Italian, and a little German. Nationality is the hook that gets fans involved sometimes, especially when you know nothing about them. And I will continue to do something that I find disrespectful, or insulting. Look I used to be a Carl Fogerty (world superbike) fan, until he started stalking S*** about the American racers, and fans. My son and I always pick a fighter before the fight starts, and if we don't know the fighters we pick one anyway. Who knows might end up being a fan.

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is that really about nationalism?

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In a way. Nationality is one of the reasons I initially pick a fighter to root for. I always root for the American in a fight unless he an asshole. But I'm open minded enough to realize when my boy gets his butt kicked.

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Originally Posted by Weebels

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Weebels

I think must often I root for the boxer I think I have something in common with. Which I pretty easy since I'm English, Irish, Scottish, Italian, and a little German. Nationality is the hook that gets fans involved sometimes, especially when you know nothing about them. And I will continue to do something that I find disrespectful, or insulting. Look I used to be a Carl Fogerty (world superbike) fan, until he started stalking S*** about the American racers, and fans. My son and I always pick a fighter before the fight starts, and if we don't know the fighters we pick one anyway. Who knows might end up being a fan.

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is that really about nationalism?

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In a way. Nationality is one of the reasons I initially pick a fighter to root for. I always root for the American in a fight unless he an asshole. But I'm open minded enough to realize when my boy gets his butt kicked.

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that is your opinion......but that is okay

na·tion·al·ism
Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

Yea, all for it.

There are some very traditional nationalistic rivalries. Puerto Ricans vs. Mexicans...... U.S. vs. British. Nothing wrong with that. And anyone who doesn't realize these rivalries exist, is a little out of touch with boxing.

Having said that, I'll admit to being VERY nationalistic. But I also look at fighters' individual merits. Style, class, skill, exciting to watch, quality of opposition. Those are all factors I look at when choosing favorite fighters.

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Originally Posted by Weebels

This was a topic that has been brought up be for, but I think that the Nationalism displayed here is a good thing. There are people that rut for a fighter just because he's from their home country. I have several Russian friends that are very proud of V. Klichko (or however it's spelled), and they don't even watch boxing, unless he's fighting. :jabbing:
Of late it's been the Americans vs. The Brits. Some people take themselves too seriously, but I think they will get over it. And it is probably the easyest way to get a rise out of people. Watch.

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I think it's a blue collar thing to do, rooting for someone without having a 'valid' reason. It's the equivalent of the KKK putting all that energy into hating blacks but not even understand why. To me it shows a certain illiteracy and well, stupid people shouldn't be able to breath all that air (taking oxygen away from the rest of us)

All I have to say is think about what would never happen if everyone felt inferior! Nationalism is a good thing

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Originally Posted by Lyle

All I have to say is think about what would never happen if everyone felt inferior! Nationalism is a good thing

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Err, sure mate. Like if the National Socialists (aka Nazis) had felt "inferior" rather than superior, then "what would never happen" would be . . . WWII and the Holocaust. So yeah, mate, nationalism is a good thing. ::**

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Originally Posted by Violent Bob

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Originally Posted by Lyle

All I have to say is think about what would never happen if everyone felt inferior! Nationalism is a good thing

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Err, sure mate. Like if the National Socialists (aka Nazis) had felt "inferior" rather than superior, then "what would never happen" would be . . . WWII and the Holocaust. So yeah, mate, nationalism is a good thing. ::**

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To an EXTENT...I mean everything is bad in excess...EVERYTHING

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Originally Posted by Violent Bob

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Originally Posted by Lyle

All I have to say is think about what would never happen if everyone felt inferior! Nationalism is a good thing

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Err, sure mate. Like if the National Socialists (aka Nazis) had felt "inferior" rather than superior, then "what would never happen" would be . . . WWII and the Holocaust. So yeah, mate, nationalism is a good thing. ::**

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Or maybe, oh I don't know, the Revolutionary War, (thats the one the Brits gave away because it was too far to sail) :P
or perhap the Brits during WWII at the height of the bombing of London. I think that people that can't tell the difference between bigotry and Nationalism, need to quit looking at them selves and look around them and realize that it isn't all about you.
Nationalism is often brought out in things like the Olympics, when you hear the National Anthem, (the song that represents the people in a particular geographic area.) and the extra pride you feel for that person who not only represents them selves, but your country.

:shakin:

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Originally Posted by raleights

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Originally Posted by Weebels

This was a topic that has been brought up be for, but I think that the Nationalism displayed here is a good thing. There are people that rut for a fighter just because he's from their home country. I have several Russian friends that are very proud of V. Klichko (or however it's spelled), and they don't even watch boxing, unless he's fighting. :jabbing:
Of late it's been the Americans vs. The Brits. Some people take themselves too seriously, but I think they will get over it. And it is probably the easyest way to get a rise out of people. Watch.

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I think it's a blue collar thing to do, rooting for someone without having a 'valid' reason. It's the equivalent of the KKK putting all that energy into hating blacks but not even understand why. To me it shows a certain illiteracy and well, stupid people shouldn't be able to breath all that air (taking oxygen away from the rest of us)

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Gees, the way u put it it sounds bad. The way you found the correlation between picking a boxer and an irrational dislike for someone because of the collar of their skin. "Kind of a stretch". And you of course do your home work, you know the white collar way. Get some background on each fighter you don't know. Maybe call their family and friends to see what he / she is really like. Do a background check. And if they don't share your high moral fortitude, they should die. ???
Well that is the beauty of a free society, you can believe whatever you want no matter how stupid it is. :)

I'm not really nationalistic when it comes to boxing because the Americans make up a lot of the boxing landscape so liking a lot of them would be liking a lot of rivals. I couldn't imagine liking Tarver :-X But I think it's great for the smaller countries.

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Originally Posted by miles

nationalism is pure bullshit.....read 1984 or study some politics....

nationalism is nothing cool....

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That's an awesome book but I think this is a much more simplistic form of nationalism so I really don't mid it. It's really harmless imo.


Though I would be all for 3 minutes of hate if Tarver or Calzaghe was Goldstein ;D

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by miles

nationalism is pure bullshit.....read 1984 or study some politics....

nationalism is nothing cool....

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That's an awesome book but I think this is a much more simplistic form of nationalism so I really don't mid it. It's really harmless imo.


Though I would be all for 3 minutes of hate if Tarver or Calzaghe was Goldstein ;D

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yeah, i think i had sipped a little too much of my "juice" when i typed that :-\

nationalism can be a harmless thing...after all who will i be supporting in the world cup? of course it will be england....

when it becomes overtly political thats when it gets to me....

out here in korea they are very nationalistic. flags adorn every classroom. when i first came here it was a little intimidating. they have a long history of repression so their nationalism is more an expression of being liberated.....

I can get behind a little nationalism easier than I can get behind any kind of racial pride. In either case it's a bit silly to take pride in the luck of the draw.

We have absolutely no control over where, when and to whom we are born.

It's a bit easier to justify having some pride in your own accomplishments and values and tangentially to root for someone that exemplifies your core values or attitudes. This is why I see fans getting behind Hatton - it's what drew me to the entire sport in teh first place. I'm American and happen to be white. I find that the type of public persona that Hatton has is what I like to see in my sports figures.

It's why I loved Barry Sanders as well.

Screw nationalism and racism. I like Champions (and it has very little to do with winning)

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Originally Posted by Weebels

This was a topic that has been brought up be for, but I think that the Nationalism displayed here is a good thing. There are people that rut for a fighter just because he's from their home country. I have several Russian friends that are very proud of V. Klichko (or however it's spelled), and they don't even watch boxing, unless he's fighting. :jabbing:
Of late it's been the Americans vs. The Brits. Some people take themselves too seriously, but I think they will get over it. And it is probably the easyest way to get a rise out of people. Watch.

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He's from the Ukraine not Russia and I dont think they get one even though they are neighbours but anyway most of favourite boxers are from the states but if they fought an Irish guy then i would be shouting for him instead so although I am a nationalist i would support fighters from other countries

I just think there is a double standard when it comes to white people who end up liking white fighters. I mean I'm guilty of it sure, I liked Tommy Morrison and The Klitschko's and so on but what's the difference between me liking those guys and hispanics liking Julio Cesar Chavez?

I mean yes more Mexicans like Chavez than Panamanians or Puerto Ricans but still the national pride between those countries is almost racism.

But why do I always get shit like "You only like him because he's white!"...but if you look at the styles of your prototypical white heavyweight that's the way I fight, that's what I like. Usually no good at defense, big punchers, and just brawlers...good on offense bad on defense...that's what I like, so sue me. I can identify with being cut, being outboxed, and so on.

This doesn't mean I ONLY like white fighters...I can usually identify with them a little more though.

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Originally Posted by LarryB

He's from the Ukraine not Russia

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Actually Wlad was born in Kazakhstan, Vitali, Kyrgyzstan...

But of course like you say both are now citizens of the Ukraine ;)

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I just think there is a double standard when it comes to white people who end up liking white fighters. I mean I'm guilty of it sure, I liked Tommy Morrison and The Klitschko's and so on but what's the difference between me liking those guys and hispanics liking Julio Cesar Chavez?

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Do you really not see the difference, mate, between you liking the Kiltchkos--who are from halfway around the world--because they're white, versus a Mexican or Mexican-American liking a fighter FROM MEXICO? One is racial, the other is national. Will you root for the world cup team who has the highest percentage of white people rather than the U.S. team, which has more black and hispanic players on it, because you can "identify better" with a bunch of Swedes than with blokes from your own backyard? This is nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Violent Bob

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I just think there is a double standard when it comes to white people who end up liking white fighters. I mean I'm guilty of it sure, I liked Tommy Morrison and The Klitschko's and so on but what's the difference between me liking those guys and hispanics liking Julio Cesar Chavez?

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Do you really not see the difference, mate, between you liking the Kiltchkos--who are from halfway around the world--because they're white, versus a Mexican or Mexican-American liking a fighter FROM MEXICO? One is racial, the other is national. Will you root for the world cup team who has the highest percentage of white people rather than the U.S. team, which has more black and hispanic players on it, because you can "identify better" with a bunch of Swedes than with blokes from your own backyard? This is nonsense.

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Exactly, CC.

In my observations black Latins and Mestizos tend to root much more for Latin and black gringos than for white gringos be it in boxing, wrestling, soccer, musicians, etc.... but they will root white man if they get to know him or see him as a underdog.

Constrastly the White Latins also tend to root for black and mestizo gringos over white gringos but they tend to enjoy white gringo music more.

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Originally Posted by Weebels

:shakin:

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Originally Posted by raleights

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Originally Posted by Weebels

This was a topic that has been brought up be for, but I think that the Nationalism displayed here is a good thing. There are people that rut for a fighter just because he's from their home country. I have several Russian friends that are very proud of V. Klichko (or however it's spelled), and they don't even watch boxing, unless he's fighting. :jabbing:
Of late it's been the Americans vs. The Brits. Some people take themselves too seriously, but I think they will get over it. And it is probably the easyest way to get a rise out of people. Watch.

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I think it's a blue collar thing to do, rooting for someone without having a 'valid' reason. It's the equivalent of the KKK putting all that energy into hating blacks but not even understand why. To me it shows a certain illiteracy and well, stupid people shouldn't be able to breath all that air (taking oxygen away from the rest of us)

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Gees, the way u put it it sounds bad. The way you found the correlation between picking a boxer and an irrational dislike for someone because of the collar of their skin. "Kind of a stretch". And you of course do your home work, you know the white collar way. Get some background on each fighter you don't know. Maybe call their family and friends to see what he / she is really like. Do a background check. And if they don't share your high moral fortitude, they should die. ???
Well that is the beauty of a free society, you can believe whatever you want no matter how stupid it is. :)

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Thats what happends when you perceive everything you read forum in a literal sense. Use your brain young padawan, use it to figure out what the person is really saying :)

And yes my sister deserves to die for cheering on Oscar, for obvious reasons

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Originally Posted by maracho

In my observations black Latins and Mestizos tend to root much more for Latin and black gringos than for white gringos be it in boxing, wrestling, soccer, musicians, etc.... but they will root white man if they get to know him or see him as a underdog.

Constrastly the White Latins also tend to root for black and mestizo gringos over white gringos but they tend to enjoy white gringo music more.

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made me smile. :coolclick: 4 u

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Originally Posted by raleights

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Originally Posted by Weebels

:shakin:

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Originally Posted by raleights

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Originally Posted by Weebels

This was a topic that has been brought up be for, but I think that the Nationalism displayed here is a good thing. There are people that rut for a fighter just because he's from their home country. I have several Russian friends that are very proud of V. Klichko (or however it's spelled), and they don't even watch boxing, unless he's fighting. :jabbing:
Of late it's been the Americans vs. The Brits. Some people take themselves too seriously, but I think they will get over it. And it is probably the easyest way to get a rise out of people. Watch.

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I think it's a blue collar thing to do, rooting for someone without having a 'valid' reason. It's the equivalent of the KKK putting all that energy into hating blacks but not even understand why. To me it shows a certain illiteracy and well, stupid people shouldn't be able to breath all that air (taking oxygen away from the rest of us)

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Gees, the way u put it it sounds bad. The way you found the correlation between picking a boxer and an irrational dislike for someone because of the collar of their skin. "Kind of a stretch". And you of course do your home work, you know the white collar way. Get some background on each fighter you don't know. Maybe call their family and friends to see what he / she is really like. Do a background check. And if they don't share your high moral fortitude, they should die. ???
Well that is the beauty of a free society, you can believe whatever you want no matter how stupid it is. :)

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Thats what happends when you perceive everything you read forum in a literal sense. Use your brain young padawan, use it to figure out what the person is really saying :)

And yes my sister deserves to die for cheering on Oscar, for obvious reasons

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Ok i understand the difference between racism and patriotism. I'm a blue collar worker that does not automatically make me a simpleton. Thats not saying, that I'm not. If you know nothing about two fighters in the ring, except their wins, losses, name, and where they hail from. What causes you to rut for them. Lets say one is English, and one is German. I would tend to rut for the Englishman, because that is the one that I have the most in common with. I have both in my blood line. But my last name is English and I speak a version of the language. And I also tend to rut for Americans in the same circumstances, unless he comes across as an asshole. Their color is not relevent.

Racism has always been a part of sports and is not that bad in the U.S. like it is in Europe where the fans hoot like monkeys against black players. The U.S. used to be real bad against black boxers where they where paid to take a dive or disallowed to fight white champions. Today I would bet that men like Louis Farrakhan and Jessie Jackson have a lot of influence on racism against white fighters and probably even influence to some degree black fighters who tend to avoid some of the white European fighters.