Printable View
get in on Wlad? ... Toney has never had the footspeed that Byrd has, and even Byrd had difficulties getting in on Wlad, and only did so with light jabs. IMO no matter what weight Toney comes in at Wlad is just too strong and too quick for him to beat at Heavyweight... unless Toney had made the move to heavyweight at 30 or younger.
Toney wouldn't satnd directly in front of Wladimer and try to duke it out and James isn't a southpaw
Toney never had all that much mobility... his lateral movement hasn't been good since super middlewieght.
Definately. A one legged man in an ass kicking contest would stand a better chance than Byrd did against Wladimir with the strategy he had. He moved in with zero head movement, barely throwing punches. It was brave but stupid. James Toney can defeat either Klitschko and has always had the talent to do so. But he needs to stop gorging himself, and sparring against guys who are limited in skills like he has been. Sucker needs to do his roadwork and not make several pit stops and IHOP, Dennys, Burgerking, Mcdonalds, and In -N-Out Burger on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
I still disagree. Toney was a great fighter, but he's too old, and Wladimir is underrated... Toney would be giving up too much in terms of size and age against Wlad.
If anything, Wlad is overrated IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think he was coming out of the olympics, but now its gone the other way. He has a weak chin no doubt, but who can really beat him out there? I see Rahman and a few others getting lucky but they are alot taller than Toney.
Only time he has ever remotely impressed me was in beating Sam Peter. Besides that, his lil comeback has been a joke. He beat Castillo, who is just a blown up featherfisted Cruiser, then was beating Williamson b4 bein dropped and then rushin to the cards to save his butt from possibly bein KO'd yet again, then beat Peter, then beat up on an old Byrd with a terrible gameplan, and whom he had thrashed already. Not terribly impressive to me. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
if he comes in at 210 he might have some sort of chance, any heavyer and forget it
James Toney can come in at 210, 220, 230, whatever he's NOT GOING TO BEAT WLAD!
What does he show you that makes you think he'd stand a chance in hell vs Wlad?
Punching Power? He doesn't have it
Defense? It won't hurt Wlad
Counter punching? Has Toney ever been hit with the power Wlad has?
Stamina? Wlad can go 12 if he has to
James Toney is going to get CRUSHED by Wlad...honestly I hope the fight happens and I hope James gets hyped up as hell before because I want a good solid betting line on Wlad (which won't happen, because no one is that much of an idiot to make Wlad the underdog)
You Toney nut huggers are ridiculous
Toney hasn't done anythimg more impressive IMO... Wlad could easily beat Ruiz or Evander Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Toney lack the power and range to beat Wlad, when has he ever been good coming forwards?
Stamina will barely be an issue... Wlad has guys working with him and he's only going to tire if Toney makes him work... which is the last thing Toney could or should do because he'll eat even more jabs.
Wlad won't fight a stupid fight like Rahman did (who beat Toney and would of done more convincingly if he hadn't chased and fought toney's fight) because he's not that subborn and has steward in his corner who knows how to think like a short fighter...
Toney cannot and will not beat Wlad... Vitali would of gotten rid of him before round 6.
People need to stop actin like Wlad is this Tyson like Phenom who KO's everybody, because that is a joke. What James Toney brings to the table is a difficult style, world class talent, years of expierence and a near granite chin. Rahman hits pretty damn hard and he didn't hurt Toney. James, in reasonable shape, could pot shot Wladimir, tire his big butt out, and win a UD.
Excellent observation. I have noticed this too. Toney does a lot of bending to the side and back to make people miss but those legs really don't do a lot of "dancing". His waist is are gets people to miss not his feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
As a matter of fact, all he does is try to stand in front of people and make them miss. Wlad will lay back and pump that jab for about 3 rounds. This guy has the best jab I have seen in a long time. Then when he starts finding the target on a regular basis, the right will follow. When Toney tries to come inside, the left hook will be waiting.
It really doesn't matter how slick he is, the plain and simple truth to all this is that Wlads punches come way too fast for Toney too avoid them all night and Toney just isn't enough of a puncher to put Wlad in danger.
Wlad can be out boxed. He ain't that good of a boxer. When your entire defense consists of holding and going straight back, there is something wrong. And when your offense consists of jab, jab, jab again, hold, shoot the right hand, and occasionaly throw a left hook, that ain't too amazing either. I'll give him credit he is pretty good for his size, but he is far from a great boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by mucho testosterone
When you have a jab as good as Wlad's you use it a lot. His left hook is devistating (I don't know who the hell you have been watching, that hook wobbled Sam Peter pretty good) and his right cross is the best in the division.
I'm not saying Wlad is a Tyson like phenom but he's the best in the division and someone James Toney should really steer clear of, why? Hasim Rahman, a washed up fighter for the most part who lost all his punching power was really sticking it to Toney and if that was Wlad Toney would have been KO'd
And Hulk IF Wlad can be outboxed it isn't going to be by anyone in THIS heavyweight division!
Toney has great boxing skills but heavyweight isnt his natural fighting weight and he lacks the power and strength of someone like Wlad. Wlad would overpower him, although i think Toney may have a chance and use his boxing skills to outpoint Wlad. (but not that great a chance!)
I have liked James Toney for along time, not so much since he has been a heavy though but one thing is certain the guy can box and he has a helluva chin. Now I'm not saying he would beat Wlad but I don't think Wlad would have an easy time with Toney. if Toney did do allot of road work and came to the fight in good shape maybe around 210 to 215 I wouldn't be surprised if Toney did sneak a Slip Decision Victory. But we pretty much all know that Toney is lazy and he won't come prepared so Wlad will win this fight.
Well I am a Tony fan but I would stay far away from his nutz as possible...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
James is a freak and here is why
Defense- He is the best defensive fighter if our generation (just scratcing above B-Hop) he is trickier than Michael Vick in the Pocket,He never gets hit with a clean shot
Intellect - He has been around a while and has excellent ring smarts and knows how to get in your head
Deceptive hand speed-Not bad for a overweight lazy bastage
Counterpunching-I swear the guy has esp and is a friggin mind reader
Poise-Even Emanuel Steward said Tony is the most relaxed boxer he has ever seen his ability to stay calm under any circumstance is amazing
Tenacity-He keeps coming back like a bad penny
Stamina-He looks like he can only fight for 1 rnd but he can go all nite
I see an intrigueng fight Wlad would be an overwhelming favorite though
one thing I disagree with you on Lyle is Wlad's stamina it is one of his glaring weaknesses along with his chin
Defense: Good at 168, good at cruiser, decent vs smaller heavies....to get "in the pocket" vs Wlad he's going to have to find a way past that jab....good luck!
Intellect: it should have told him it's time to hang it up once Rahman outboxed him!
Hand speed: Rahman didn't block those shots (big right hands) because they didn't hurt him
Counterpunching: yeah he's good at that but Wlad sort of negates that once he starts blasting that right hand in there
Poise: He's so relaxed he doesn't throw as much, he doesn't move very well, he doesn't do much which is the reason....
He has "so much" stamina
Tenacity: Nope, not at heavyweight and his body language will show everyone once Wlad connects with just the jab.
Stamina: Wlad beat the shit out of Sam Peter for 12 rounds and he can't do the same to James Toney? Don't bring up defense, Sam's was just as good as Toney's when he fought Rahman...yes THAT BAD
"Stamina-He looks like he can only fight for 1 rnd but he can go all nite"
He can't work for more than one minute of a round, let alone 3. If he's made to work he'll be exhausted. He lays on the ropes and rests... Rahman let him get away with it...
james toney cant beat anyone good who is not past there prime.
no but he can win a pie eating contest
I don't think Toney at any weight stands a chance against Wlad...He is giving up too many variables...size..age...reach...Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear bull
Since when is Rahman washed up and lost all his power? That's a good one. ;D Not too washed up to frighten Viatli from fighting him. And Toney was way outta shape for that fight. He was a complete fat slob. Toney around 220 is too good of a boxer for Wlad IMO, and yes Wlad wobbled Peter when Peter was tired as hell in the last round after bein dropped twice.
Rahman didn't oubox Toney, he outworked him. He turned the fight into an aerobics competition because he rightly thought Toney didn't have the fitness to fight 3 minutes of every round. Toney lost the fight because he wasn't in condition to throw enough leather. I think Toney's balance and leverage won his punches would also be better if he lost 20 lbs.
A fit Toney can give Vlad problems by making him work and slipping punches. Vlad has a great jab. Toney has typically been good at slipping/swatting the jab but wasn't as good as usual v Rahman. He's have to do better against Vlad to be competitive. Toney hardly ever gets taggest with right hands (Vlad's money shot) and counters them as well as anyone. Toney is aslo terrific to the body and would pile up the points inside if Vlad didn't tie him up.
If he comes in shape he can make this a great fight
Hulk I understand you like making fun of Vitali's injuries but it won't fill the hole Mayorga left in your heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Vitali got injured, he knew when to say when and anyone who thought Rahman was any better than Danny Williams is foolin themselves!
Um, Wlad caught Sam right on the chin with that left hook and really could have finished him but it was the 12th and he was winning anyways (even after 3 shady knockdowns).
Ok, so the question now is who thinks would win out of Wladimir and Rahman? (Wlad did lose to Brewster and Rahman has the tendency to be lazy). ???
Most biased clown this forum has ever seen :lickish:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
;D ;D ;D Gotta love your Klit propaganda it does make me laugh, I'll give ya that. Wlad could have finished Sanders and Brewster too, but he just decided to let them KO him out of the kindness of his heart right? Wlad is a big doofus, he fights like a doofus, he is a doofus. He outpointed Peter legit, no doubt. However he did not finish Peter as you claim, because of one thing, he would have had to engage him. He would have had to fight, plant his feet, and take some risks against a big puncher. He didn't want to do that. And did he drop Peter? Nope. And nothin is gonna make me forget how bad my boy Mayorga got his ass whipped in what could have been his life/career defining fight. I'll always remember it and it still bothers me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Re: Even at 220 can Toney
NO NO NO......there is your answer. Not on his best day. Not at his best weight. WLad will maul him.
I am actually suprised that after the sorry-assed performance he put on against Rahman that this dude still has a fan base.
Some folks never give up.
And I love the way that his fans blame his conditioning for his loss. Guess what, conditioning yourself is part of being an athlete and if you can't properly condition yourself then your not a good athlete anymore.
But it really doesn't matter because he won't win anything but a deluxe overnight stay at the nearest hospital and then a retirement dinner after facing Wlad.
Oh I blame Toney for his conditioning. That was a big disapointment, that Rahman fight. Toney has all the skills in the world, but he chooses to be a sloth and a glutton. Still, he's got the skills to defeat Wlad, but it is up to him to get in shape and realize his full potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by mucho testosterone
If he was smart he would go down to cruiser, beat O'neil Bell and ride out his career as champ but he just won't have the power for a lot of the heavies.
I think your 100% right with what you said but. If I recall I think he said even when he was a middle weight years ago that his dream was to be a heavy weight champ. Even though the right thing to do is go down to cruiser but I think he's to hard headed to do that so he will get beat by wlad probably if he doesn't train properly and that will pretty much be it for him. I think what other people said the guy does have all the talent in the world but has no drive to prepare for fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by mucho testosterone
i can just imagine toney when he was a middle weight planning on munching kfc and putting on all that flab to move up to heavy weight. hee hee. living the dream now james.
KFC and Macdonalds.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
Hulk the thing with Sanders and Brewster is that they had power....and Brewster is goddamn LUCKY he won that fight he took a terrible beating in the 4th round, not many heavies could withstand that....I know damn well Toney couldn't take those punches.
Toney has no power, he doesn't work like he used to in the ring and Wlad ain't Vassily Jirov! Wlad will use his jab and hell that could hurt James...it hurt Chris Byrd...it hurt Sam Peter. James Toney got picked apart by Hasim Rahman and Wlad is a better boxer than Hasim!
Picked apart is the wrong way to describe Rahman Toney. Toney was obviously more skilled. The fight turned into a boxacize competition that Rahman deserved to win because he had the conditioning to land a lot of glancing punches. The only clean shots were landed by Toney. The problem was his conditioning being so poor that he could only throw a few shots per round.
There's also nothing lucky about being able to take your opponent's best shots, pacing oneself better and having more stamina. Vlad would probably beat Brewster if he fought him again but luck wasn't an issue. Brewster performed and Vlad didn't. Vlad is the best of the heavyweights IMO but he is vulnerable in some circumstances and the love letters that some people write to him on here are a bit embarrassing
You make some sense but some of that is BS too. Toney takes damn near as good or better of a punch as Brewster IMO. He sure gets hit a hell of a lot less. And when he does get hit, you seen him hurt? Nope, never. Not at HW anyway, and rarely if ever at the lowr weight classes as well. Also luck had nothing to do with Brewster's win, it was heart. And no, Toney was not picked apart by Hasim, he was outworked, because he came in lookin like a complete lazy ass fat slob. Now for the last part, the jab annoyed Sam Peter, only in the last round was Peter EVER hurt. The excessive riding and holding hurt him more than the jab. Now that we got that all sorted out, lets talk some logically about the fight okay? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle