MAB:greatest Mexican fight ever?

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=7023&more=1


Marco Antonio Barrera - Mexico's Greatest Ever Fighter!

23.05.06 - By James Slater: Marco Antonio Barrera did it again on Saturday (May 20th). He gritted his teeth and fought in the trenches to pull out a very close, but by all means honest, victory over one of the best contenders out there in the super featherweight division. Marco's been doing this for years now. He has consistently fought the very best and, win, lose, or draw, he always gives his all. Yes, the end may be approaching, but when the curtain does finally come down on the career of the man from Mexico City we will all quickly realise how much we are going to miss him. If indeed, the Rocky Juarez bout is to be the last win on Barrera's fine record then it would be an honourable note on which to be remembered. Marco fought through the pain - pain he had felt before in unbelievable wars with Erik Morales- and pounded out the win. The wars have certainly started to catch up with him though and he himself admits he is now in the stage of his career where he is paving the way to his retirement. He is solidifying his legacy. As the greatest ever boxer to come out of Mexico? I believe so. He has managed to surpass his only other rival for such an accolade in "J.C Superstar" - Julio Cesar Chavez. High praise indeed, but when it comes to Marco Antonio Barrera it is warranted..

Let's take a look back at some of the many notable achievements this boxing legend has to his credit.

Marco turned pro back in 1989 at the tender age of fifteen. He proceeded to go undefeated in his first forty three bouts, capturing his very first title in 1992, in his seventeenth fight. Marco won the Mexican super flyweight title by beating Josefino Suarez on points over twelve rounds. This title would prove to be the first of many. He would progress to the WBO world super bantamweight title three years later with a good win over Daniel Jiminez, again on points, and by now he was receiving recognition in America- thanks in large part to him having boxed quite a few of his early bouts in The Great Western Forum in California. Shortly after the win over Jiminez, Marco fought the first truly epic fight of his career. He met
former Olympian Kennedy McKinney, again at the Forum, in February of 1996. A superb display of action packed boxing followed. Both men hit the canvas ( only the second ever time for Barrera- the first was in a bout with Agapito Sanchez the year before) before Barrera got the job done in the twelfth and last round with a badly beaten, but incredibly courageous McKinney being rescued by the referee. It was a fight that would be remembered by fight fans for a long time.

Marco carried on in his all-out aggressive style- to the delight of the fans- until he ran into "Poison" Junior Jones. Only nine months (yet in an amazing activity level, another four fights) on from the McKinney fight, Barrera was beaten for the first time. His defence neglecting style of fighting caught up with him and he was stopped in the fifth round of a stunning upset. Although officially the result was a disqualification win for Jones because of Marco's corner men entering the ring, the awesome punch power of the challenger was the real and undeniable reason. Marco was crushed by the loss. He was devastated.

Five months later he tried for revenge. This time a much closer fight ensued but for a second time the Brooklyn native prevailed - this time on points. It was clear that Junior Jones was Barrera's bogeyman. Marco just could not master his style. Some now mistakenly wrote Barrera off. There had been a prospective super fight in the works for Barrera to face new star Naseem Hamed. Such plans would have to wait- for now.

Marco regrouped and won his next seven fights. Before engaging in the first of a three fight series for which he will be best remembered for. Barrera would meet his Mexican rival Erik "El Terrible" Morales! Morales was the new Mexican star and he was undefeated. He was the favourite in the match-up with Barrera as most still vividly remembered the two losses to Jones that the man from Mexico City had suffered. Tijuana's favourite son was expected to dispatch his rival countryman. What followed, in February of 2000, may well be the greatest fight ever held at super bantamweight. Marco fought
with a kill or be killed attitude right from the start and fight fans and experts alike watched with their mouths agape as one of the most unforgettable and violent slugfests in the history of boxing took place before them. The momentum swung one way and then the other, with neither man willing to yield. It was breathtaking. Some said later that the fight was a super bantamweight version of Hagler v Hearns - but for twelve rounds! It was that good a fight. After twelve ferocious rounds the decision was awarded to Erik. Many disagreed- Marco had fought his heart out yet lost again. Officially. There would have to be a return fight, that much was obvious. But it would be some time before either man wanted to put themselves through such hell again. And who could blame them?

As it turned out, Barrera's career had still to reach its peak. The two losses to Junior Jones aside, Marco was fast becoming the people's choice for the best super bantamweight in the world. He would soon move up to featherweight and claim that distinction there also. The once mooted Hamed fight was back on. However, Barrera had undergone a style makeover. Since the brutality of the Morales fight Marco had realised that if he were to continue with his career he would have to alter certain things. The world was about to see Marco Antonio Barrera the cagey boxer. Actually, if the Hamed camp had done their homework they would have seen the change in Marco's style in his fight with Jesus Salud at the tail end of 2000. They would have also realised that all the talk from Barrera going into the Hamed bout, about his intentions of coming out brawling as was the Mexican way, was a bluff. Such tactics, had they been employed, would more than likely have suited "The Prince", but Marco was now a much smarter fighter - as Naseem, and the watching audience would find out.

Hamed was given a virtual boxing lesson on his way to a comprehensive points defeat, his first and only loss, at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas in April of 2001. The myth of Naseems' boxing brilliance was shattered for all to see on this particular evening (he all but retired afterwards) as once again Marco proved just how good he was. He was now a proven force at world class in two weight divisions. People now knew that Marco could do it all in the ring- be it slug or be it box, -he was more than capable of dominating his opposition. What could Marco do now to top the superb and satisfying win over Hamed? A rematch with Morales was a natural and after a successful defence against Enrique Sanchez fight two was staged.

This time, however, two years later, the roles were somewhat reversed. Now it was Barrera who was the fighter estimated to be the superior of the two. Erik had looked quite ring-worn in his fights with Guty Espadas and than In Jin Chi prior to his second encounter with Marco. He was the underdog this time as a result. The fight that followed unfortunately disappointed many who were expecting a thrilling bout like the first fight. This time, with his superb boxing skills once again in evidence, Marco fought smart and picked up the points win. As with the first fight though, the wrong man appeared to get the victory. Still, as Marco deserved to have his hand raised after fight one, things were perceived as all square and relatively acceptable now. The rubber match would have to happen though!

There was an unforeseen bump in the road for Marco, however. After good wins against Johnny Tapia and Kevin Kelley, Marco ran into the Philippines fighter Manny Pacquiao. In a stunning upset, Manny manhandled the champion to defeat in eleven mostly one-sided rounds. Once again Marco was written off by many people. He was far from done yet though. He came back with a stoppage win over Paulie Ayala in June of the following year and then signed for the rubber match with Morales. Once again Marco was the underdog. He had been badly beaten in the fight with Pacquiao, while Morales looked as though he had a new lease of life - stopping Espadas in three easy looking rounds in a rematch of what was seen as a tough fight. Erik had also beaten Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernadez in fine fights.

Now it was the decider between the Mexican rivals. A high quality and supremely entertaining fight was witnessed-this time up at super featherweight- and some actually favoured it to the first thrilling bout. It was desperately close after twelve rounds and yet again an agonising wait for the reading of the judges scorecards was endured. Marco prevailed by a razor thin majority verdict. Morales was bitter at the result and refused to be civil towards Barrera afterwards, choosing instead to try and throw water over him. There really was some bad blood between the two men.

This fight really capped the great career of Marco, but he still had a lot of fight in his heart. He wasn't ready to quit just yet. Two easy wins came next, against the overmatched Mzonke Fana and then Robbie Peden. Then came last Saturday's fight with Rocky Suarez. The only question is, what's left? Obviously a revenge fight with Manny Pacquiao would please many, me included. In truth it's the only fight out there that Barrera needs to win to prove himself to whatever critics he has left. After such an honourable and distinguished career it is hard to imagine how he could have too many.

However Marco chooses to end his fighting days- be it a second fight with the man from the Philippines or something else- he has certainly done enough to be ranked as the finest ever fighter to come from the great country of Mexico.

And that, surely, is a distinction that many a fighter would give his right arm for! Marco, we applaud you.

Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez have to be ahead of Barrera

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez have to be ahead of Barrera

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sanchez would have been undisputed greatest mexican fighter had he lived. chavez record speaks for its self. barreras a great but tough acts to follow

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez have to be ahead of Barrera

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What the heck is going on today?! Usually I think your opinions suck ass but today,that's twice I agree with you.What about EM?

If Barrera beats Manny Pacquioa, then he will probably be ahead of Chavez

and not even, if he wins a world title at 135 then he will be, but all 3 Chavez, Sanchez, and Lopez are ahead, hell i'd even rank Morales (although he beat him twice) ahead, mainly cause of the competition

So.
The view that Chavez's record is padded with road sweepers is not a popular one?

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Originally Posted by Missy

So.
The view that Chavez's record is padded with road sweepers is not a popular one?

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If he was an average fighter fighting road sweepers, one would have got lucky against him in his first 98 fights.

Chavez was an all time great.

Has to be Chavez even though he had poor performances in his two biggest fights of his career (Meldric Taylor was a gift from Richard Steele) and (Pernell Whitaker was a gift from the judges)

If MAB beats about three to five more very top fighters then he can be considered the best.

My all time list is:

10 Erik Morales
9 Vicente Saldivar
8 Lupe Pintor
7 Salvador Sanchez
6 Marco Antonio Barrera
5 Jose Napoles (Adopted Mexico as his own country; Cuban by birth)
4 Ricardo Lopez
3 Ruben Olivares
2 Carlos Zarate
1 Julio Cesar Chavez

Mentions to: Humberto Gonzales, Miguel Canto, Rodolfo Martinez, Alfonso Zamora, Daniel Zaragoza, Joe Rivers, Baby Arizmendi, Chalky Wright, Manuel Medina, Rafael Limon, Jose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Castillo.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

My all time list is:

10 Erik Morales
9 Vicente Saldivar
8 Lupe Pintor
7 Salvador Sanchez
6 Marco Antonio Barrera
5 Jose Napoles (Adopted Mexico as his own country; Cuban by birth)
4 Ricardo Lopez
3 Ruben Olivares
2 Carlos Zarate
1 Julio Cesar Chavez

Mentions to: Humberto Gonzales, Miguel Canto, Rodolfo Martinez, Alfonso Zamora, Daniel Zaragoza, Joe Rivers, Baby Arizmendi, Chalky Wright, Manuel Medina, Rafael Limon, Jose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Castillo.

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Bloody heck bro,is there anything you don't know about?! CC,nice list although who is Lupe Pintor and why is MAB so much higher than EM? Just asking out of interest.

Julio Cesar Chavez > Any other mexican boxer.

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Originally Posted by The Game

Bloody heck bro,is there anything you don't know about?! CC,nice list although who is Lupe Pintor and why is MAB so much higher than EM? Just asking out of interest.

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Lupe Pintor was a superb 118/122 title holder in the in the late 70s/early+mid 80s. His biggest wins were against Carlos Zarate, the tragic bout with Johnny Owen and a victory over the teat tough Korean, Seung Hoon Lee.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000166

As for the Barrera over Morales question; I think Barrera has overall done more outside their trilogy to earn his rating than Morales. One on one there is little to split them. But overall Barrera has been World class longer than Morales and met slightly better opposition, hence the reason I put him ahead of Erik.

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Originally Posted by The Game

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez have to be ahead of Barrera

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What the heck is going on today?! Usually I think your opinions suck ass but today,that's twice I agree with you.What about EM?

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why Salvador? He is a mystery so Barerra would be ahead of him because we've seen how great Barerra can be, we never got to see how good Salvador could or would be.

I Looked at the list and thought youd got it arse about face.Then I saw the numbers and realised I had.Thats a very good List

I particularly liked the record of Carlos Zarate when it stood at near 50 fights (I can't remember the exact number), all wins, and all by KO's!!! until the streak was broken when he lost to Wilfredo Gomez (another great fighter), moving up in weight.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by The Game

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez have to be ahead of Barrera

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What the heck is going on today?! Usually I think your opinions suck ass but today,that's twice I agree with you.What about EM?

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why Salvador? He is a mystery so Barerra would be ahead of him because we've seen how great Barerra can be, we never got to see how good Salvador could or would be.

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He beat a PRIME Azumah Nelson, I don't think anyone MAB has beaten was on that level

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez have to be ahead of Barrera

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Julio accomplished what Sanchez would have...both are far better than MAB..

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by The Game

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Julio Cesar Chavez and Salvador Sanchez have to be ahead of Barrera

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What the heck is going on today?! Usually I think your opinions suck ass but today,that's twice I agree with you.What about EM?

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why Salvador? He is a mystery so Barerra would be ahead of him because we've seen how great Barerra can be, we never got to see how good Salvador could or would be.

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He beat a PRIME Azumah Nelson, I don't think anyone MAB has beaten was on that level

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He may have beat a Prime Azumah Nelson but he never built a legacy. everything is speculation with him, we know Barerra's legacy but we do not know what Sanchez's could have been, we only speculate, and speculation isn't enough to put him ahead of barerra who has already written his legacy imo.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

He beat a PRIME Azumah Nelson, I don't think anyone MAB has beaten was on that level

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LOL, it could be argued Nelson did not peak for another ten years or so!!!

The Nelson, Sanchez beat, was a 13 fight novice, who was comming in as a substitute opponent, and yet he gave Sanchez hell, and Salvador was given a right panning for his performance by the boxing press.

Then 22 days, that all seemed rather redundant...

It was a tragedy what happened to Sanchez, but it is nearly 24 years on, you have try and look at his career without sentiment. And if you do, you see an amazing talent, who was brilliant one night, and rather so so the next.

I don't know enough history to say that MAB was the greatest mexican fighter ever, however
I do know he fought everyone worthwhile at every opportunity and always made for an exciting
fight, even when he lost.

I would have to say that its either between Chavez or Lopez

Chavez for his sheer dominance and Lopez for his unparalled skills

Jorge Paez was not in my era of boxing so i have never seen any of his fights. Do ya thing he is one of the top fighters? or honorable mention? 74 wins is great

Before drugs Rubin Olivaris was one of the best fighters Ive seen He was special. Iremember Bobby Neil Alan Rudkins Manager telling me a tale, when he went to see him spar in Cali before the fight with Rudkin.Rubin reconised Bobby and said you come to see Bobby said yes,Bobby said Scrap he was sparring with the World Lightweight champ 2nd round He KOd him he was out cold,He walked over to the ropes,looked down at me and said you seen enough. Bobby said seen enough.Scrap I was shitting myself, what a fighter

Personally...I think that it does boil down to JCC...but I just aint down with JCC's style.

I'm pretty fond of Barrera & Morales though.

Barrera is def the greatest of our gen.

There have been many great Mexican fighters but Sanchez is in a league of his own, and is the best boxer I have ever see. He's as good as Marcianio, Ali, and Leonard who are the others I think are the greatest o9f all time. It's hard to split them. Barrera is excellent but Pacquio hammered him stupid, and he's dodged Scott Harrison for years now.

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Originally Posted by MOOG

There have been many great Mexican fighters but Sanchez is in a league of his own, and is the best boxer I have ever see. He's as good as Marcianio, Ali, and Leonard who are the others I think are the greatest o9f all time. It's hard to split them. Barrera is excellent but Pacquio hammered him stupid, and he's dodged Scott Harrison for years now.

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;D

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Originally Posted by MOOG

There have been many great Mexican fighters but Sanchez is in a league of his own, and is the best boxer I have ever see. He's as good as Marcianio, Ali, and Leonard who are the others I think are the greatest o9f all time. It's hard to split them. Barrera is excellent but Pacquio hammered him stupid, and he's dodged Scott Harrison for years now.

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Scott Harrison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!! Barrera would have been to much for Scott Harrison, why would Barrera dodge Harrison??? Please explain to me.

Sal Sanchez not sure good but not great in my book, my opinion Dont think Pat Cowdell did either Nelson was only a novice when He Boxed Him.

SKEL1983 the reason Barrera has dodged Scott Harrison for years is because Barrera is on the slide, whilst Harrison is at his peak. Harrison is laso stronger and a lot fitter than Barrera, combined with the fact that Scott Harrison does not take a backward step in a fight and throws more punches than anyone in the super featherweight/ featherweight divisions and Pacquio showed that works again Barrera. Harrison v Barrera would be a great fight but Harrison has too much in his armary. Good news though even though Barrera has dodged Harrison he said that he needs to fight Chi, Harrison and Pacquio before he retires to confirm his legacy as an all time great. Though if he fights Harrison or Pacquioa all he will get is a big pay cheque because he want win.

you HAVE to be joking. I can tell you this Scott was considered for a fight with Barrera but he then got beat by Manuel Medina ;D so that tells us all we need to cold or no cold ;)

Missy you mention that Mendina beat Harrison when he had the cold, correct he did beat him on a a split decision and rightly so but what happened when he fought a fully fit Scott Harrison only a few months later Harrison destroyed him knocking him down four times including the first round before finishing him in the eleven round. Also Wayne McCullough got hit 350 on the head during his fight with Scott Harrison, and he said Barrera and morales and Naseem who he fought were on a level above Harrison, well before the fight. After he got out of hospital following his fight with Harrison he said that Harrison was better than the above mentioned fighters and would walk through there punches, remember Harrison live on American television after Barrera v Morales III he challenged Barrera to a fight. Even Bob Arum said that Harrison is Britains best boxer and as good as anything in the 126 - 130 Ib divisions, and the best were dodging him. If Scott Harrison was English he would be in everyone's top 5 P4P fighters.

yah...

i almost thought barrera was the greatest mexican fighter 3 years ago...

but when i witnessed the fight against pac everything i liked about him was gone...

i liked him before because he was a great warrior...

hes greatness significantly diminished when he lose to pac..

but losing is part of boxing... and even the greatest ali losed many times...

what pissed me off about barrera was his gestures when he was beaten by pac...


on the 5th round he doesnt wanna continue to fight complaining he has a cut...

but oscar de la hoya told him hes trailing on the scorecards so the fight must go on..

on the 9th round he deliberately gave pac a headbutt... the replay shows its really intenional...

on the 10th round he threw a whooping right on pac while referre lawrence cole is separating them...

and i saw the dread in his eyes when he saw pac never wobbled even if he gave his best punch...


great fighters never cheats...

great fighters wins proudly and loses proudly...

great fighters respects his opponents..

they may never show it off the ring but they'll intuitively show it at the top of the canvass...


yah barrera is still one of the greatest, but...


[glow=red,2,300][glow=red,2,300][size=10pt]"respect is earned not asked nor bought"[/size]

One fight turns you off from a great career fighter?

Sounds like the wrong answer to me.

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Originally Posted by MOOG

Missy you mention that Mendina beat Harrison when he had the cold, correct he did beat him on a a split decision and rightly so but what happened when he fought a fully fit Scott Harrison only a few months later Harrison destroyed him knocking him down four times including the first round before finishing him in the eleven round. Also Wayne McCullough got hit 350 on the head during his fight with Scott Harrison, and he said Barrera and morales and Naseem who he fought were on a level above Harrison, well before the fight. After he got out of hospital following his fight with Harrison he said that Harrison was better than the above mentioned fighters and would walk through there punches, remember Harrison live on American television after Barrera v Morales III he challenged Barrera to a fight. Even Bob Arum said that Harrison is Britains best boxer and as good as anything in the 126 - 130 Ib divisions, and the best were dodging him. If Scott Harrison was English he would be in everyone's top 5 P4P fighters.

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Stop this nonsense if you don't want us laughing at you even more than this stupidness. It has nowt to do with nationality it has everything to do with being good.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

One fight turns you off from a great career fighter?

Sounds like the wrong answer to me.

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I think the question is wrong Mr Dog. 8)

$1 socks bwah.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

One fight turns you off from a great career fighter?

Sounds like the wrong answer to me.

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yah! it turns me off because it is the complete irony of what i really like about him...

his PRIDE


and dude... why do you always negate my thoughts? ???

it is because it really has a bang?!!! ^-^

you better simmer on me dude... :lickish:

i know you have that belt... but everything i posted is true and

without any bias and is never hypocritical... 8)

oh lordy M_D please lay in to this one. 8) :-*

Missy you say I look stupid with my views and it's about being Good not Nationality well Scott Harrison is good I am not saying he has acheived as much as Barrera but I am saying that he would beat Barrera for the reasons I stated. If Harrison is not good why was he European under 19 Champion when only 17, why has he won British, Commonwealth, and European Champion titles as being a world champion for a total of nearly four years whilst still only 28. I am afraid if your not good you don't do that especially when he won his world title and is still world Champion especially with Barrera, Pacquio, Morales, Chi and j Marquez all fighting at featheerweight at the time, and many of them never had a world title then and still would not fight him. Do you know more than Wayne McCullough who fought Harrison, Morales, Hamed and Barrera and stills say's Harrison was better than them. Even if you don't agree that is fine because it is a forum for different opinions but how you can suggest Harrison is not gfood I do not know.