Heavyweight Division (it's better than you think)

Alright we have 4 main titles and 4 different people holding those titles! We also have any number of good boxers and brawlers who haven't had any shots at top competition either because guys like Toney and Ruiz have hogged up the title shots or they haven't applied themselves.

Title Holders
WBA - Nicolay Valuev
WBC - Hasim Rahman
WBO - Sergei Lyakhovich
IBF - Wladimir Klitschko

Top tier contenders
Lamon Brewster
Sam Peter
Sultan Ibrigamov
Calvin Brock
Joe Mesi(perhaps)

Young Stars
Alexander Dimitrenko
Eddie Chambers
Malik Scott
Timor Ibrigamov
Ruslan Chagaev
JD Chapman
Rene Dettwieler
Kevin Johnson
Mike Marrone
Jason Estrada
Alexander Potvetinkin
Chazz Witherspoon

Old Vets
Chris Byrd
James Toney
John Ruiz
Shannon Briggs
Oleg Maskaev
Luan Krasniqi
Danny Williams
Fres Oquendo
Juan Carlos Gomez
David Tua
Jameel McCline
Kirk Johnson
Davaryl Williamson
Sinan Samil Sam

Journeymen and Bums
Tye Fields
Audley Harrison
Domminick Guinn
Lance Whittaker
Larry Donald
Ray Austin
Taurus Sykes
Vinny Maddalone
Brian Minto
Chris Koval
Mike Mollo

With this many fighters and as competitive as this division COULD be it's a shame they aren't fighting each other more. I would like pretty much any of these guys to fight each other. This division could be more exciting than ANY OTHER IN BOXING! The problem is that Don King won't put his top fighters in dangerous fights and other promoters are hesitant to do this as well.

I pose these questions
1) What fights do you want to see? What fights NEED to happen?
2) Of course who would win the proposed match ups?
3) What fights would be bad for the division?
4) What style match ups are good/bad for which fighters?

My answers
1) The title holders NEED to fight!

I want the Young guns to go up against some Top tier contenders or Old Vets

Lamon Brewster-Sam Peter
Sam Peter-Shannon Briggs
Joe Mesi-Sultan Ibrigamov
Alexander Dimitrenko-Luan Krasniqi
Eddie Chambers-Chris Byrd
Ruslan Chagaev-Sinan Samil Sam
Mike Marrone-Kirk Johnson
....just to name a few

2) Sam Peter (TKO, I don't rate the Brewster/McGirt match up, it's bad for his style)
Shannon Briggs (UD, though he gets knocked down legitly once or twice)
Sultan Ibrigamov ( UD, both fighters go down! )
Dimitrenko (UD he has 0 power)
Chambers (UD he's a younger stronger Byrd)
Chagaev (TKO he's younger and stronger)
Marrone (UD he's small and hits the canvas but wins because he's in shape)

3) Of course Byrd-Ruiz is going to be THE worst fight ever, here are more...
Scott-Harrison
Scott-Dimitrenko
Johnson-Williams (battle of the bulge)
Toney-Donald

4) This is a simple question I think the best example is Wladimir Klitschko-Chris Byrd...Chris has lost almost EVERY ROUND HE FOUGHT AGAINST Wlad!
Sam Peter-James Toney
Joe Mesi-Audley Harrison
Sam Peter-Mike Marrone
Fres Oquendo-Nicolay Valuev

just when I think cutmemick puts out the best post of the day along comes LYLE......excellent post....I think you explaind the hw division to a "T".. :coolclick: to you...

Thanks man...really when you look at it this way there are A LOT of intriguing match ups out there...it's a shame they haven't been made yet but it gives me hope for the future.

You have a TON of over and under achievers and the exciting fights are there to be made

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Alright we have 4 main titles and 4 different people holding those titles! We also have any number of good boxers and brawlers who haven't had any shots at top competition either because guys like Toney and Ruiz have hogged up the title shots or they haven't applied themselves.

Title Holders
WBA - Nicolay Valuev
WBC - Hasim Rahman
WBO - Sergei Lyakhovich
IBF - Wladimir Klitschko

Top tier contenders
Lamon Brewster
Sam Peter
Sultan Ibrigamov
Calvin Brock
Joe Mesi(perhaps)

Young Stars
Alexander Dimitrenko
Eddie Chambers
Malik Scott
Timor Ibrigamov
Ruslan Chagaev
JD Chapman
Rene Dettwieler
Kevin Johnson
Mike Marrone
Jason Estrada
Alexander Potvetinkin
Chazz Witherspoon

Old Vets
Chris Byrd
James Toney
John Ruiz
Shannon Briggs
Oleg Maskaev
Luan Krasniqi
Danny Williams
Fres Oquendo
Juan Carlos Gomez
David Tua
Jameel McCline
Kirk Johnson
Davaryl Williamson
Sinan Samil Sam

Journeymen and Bums
Tye Fields
Audley Harrison
Domminick Guinn
Lance Whittaker
Larry Donald
Ray Austin
Taurus Sykes
Vinny Maddalone
Brian Minto
Chris Koval
Mike Mollo

With this many fighters and as competitive as this division COULD be it's a shame they aren't fighting each other more. I would like pretty much any of these guys to fight each other. This division could be more exciting than ANY OTHER IN BOXING! The problem is that Don King won't put his top fighters in dangerous fights and other promoters are hesitant to do this as well.

I pose these questions
1) What fights do you want to see? What fights NEED to happen?
2) Of course who would win the proposed match ups?
3) What fights would be bad for the division?
4) What style match ups are good/bad for which fighters?

My answers
1) The title holders NEED to fight!

I want the Young guns to go up against some Top tier contenders or Old Vets

Lamon Brewster-Sam Peter
Sam Peter-Shannon Briggs
Joe Mesi-Sultan Ibrigamov
Alexander Dimitrenko-Luan Krasniqi
Eddie Chambers-Chris Byrd
Ruslan Chagaev-Sinan Samil Sam
Mike Marrone-Kirk Johnson
....just to name a few

2) Sam Peter (TKO, I don't rate the Brewster/McGirt match up, it's bad for his style)
Shannon Briggs (UD, though he gets knocked down legitly once or twice)
Sultan Ibrigamov ( UD, both fighters go down! )
Dimitrenko (UD he has 0 power)
Chambers (UD he's a younger stronger Byrd)
Chagaev (TKO he's younger and stronger)
Marrone (UD he's small and hits the canvas but wins because he's in shape)

3) Of course Byrd-Ruiz is going to be THE worst fight ever, here are more...
Scott-Harrison
Scott-Dimitrenko
Johnson-Williams (battle of the bulge)
Toney-Donald

4) This is a simple question I think the best example is Wladimir Klitschko-Chris Byrd...Chris has lost almost EVERY ROUND HE FOUGHT AGAINST Wlad!
Sam Peter-James Toney
Joe Mesi-Audley Harrison
Sam Peter-Mike Marrone
Fres Oquendo-Nicolay Valuev

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Where is Roman Greenberg and Denis Boytsov? Why do you call Eddie Chambers, Malik Scott, Jason Estrada and Chazz Witherspoon for young stars?

:biker: ^

Sorry azumir, I guess I left them off. I call them "Young Stars" because they are under 30, undefeated and ready to hit the big time with fights vs tougher opposition.

I think Witherspoon is really gonna be tough

great post lyle,dont know if you remember me,i was banned from the forum,(just as i reached 100 posts).the ban was unjust,anyway ive found a way back in,im just gutted a was banned around the time of the calzaghe fight.I was in manchester that night and wish i could have seen the reaction from the pro-lacy lot on here.do they still exist by the way?

Yes there are many fans that stuck by Lacy, I still like him, he was just too young and inexperienced to beat Joe.

Thanks

So you got banned and of course you think you shouldn't have been... now you've snuck under the net and instead of keeping quiet about it you're telling every one and challenging the admin's around here...

thats not smart... :P

i believe the admin have enough sense to know that im so respected,it would damage the board itself to hear of my ban.

lyle,did you see the froch-magee fight the other night?

OK enough about the banning...let's not fuck my thread up with all this jibba jabba foo's

No I sure didn't...now back to the heavyweight division please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryanman89

i believe the admin have enough sense to know that im so respected,it would damage the board itself to hear of my ban.

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Number 20 for telling lies

Yes Lacy fans still exist >:mad I'm one of them.

This is a heavyweight thread if you please....If you would like to post about something else leave my thread and make a new one

alright lyle,calm down,just wanted to say hi to you

Here are a few matchups I would like to see...

Wlad - Sergei
Peter - Sultan
Brock/Timor - Briggs (would be a boxing matchup but I think Briggs would fade)
Rahman - Toney II

That's all for right now. I think another sleeper guy who could have a chance to do some good is Malcolm Tann. So far though he has been a big underacheiver. I haven't seen half those prospects and I'm not impressed with a lot of them, especially Chapman.

I'm calm I just don't want the thread all fouled up with stuff that isn't relevant to the topic.....so Hello and what do you think of the heavyweight division?

Bravo 2ndRound I dig those match ups. Wlad and Sergei used to have some battles in sparring so I've heard.

I would like Wlad-Brewster II or Wlad-Valuev...those would be AWESOME fights.

Brock-Rahman would be pretty tough to call
Mesi-Timor
Briggs-Lyakhovich would be decent too

Wlad - Rahman
The winner (Wlad... ;)) - Valuev

WBA/WBC/IBF belts unified in 2 fights. heavy weight division starts to mend... He can chase the WBO if (can't spell his name serio or something) he wants to but this needs to happen first. Toney can get lost... his last 2 bouts have been worthless and just stalled the belts getting together...

Too true, if James Toney or John Ruiz want title shots they have to earn them like everyone else!!!

well,the heavyweight division obviously is going through a drought in terms of fighters with top-notch ability,howvever i agree that there are many interesting match-ups that could be made
id like to see williams vs valeuv,but williams has to overcome skelton first,and that isnt a certainty.
also i think roman greenberg should be added to your young guns list.
i havent see much of messi(only a few clips) is he any good?what is he like stylisticly?

I think Williams could beat Valuev, he's got heart, power and when he is focused is more than skilled enough... Wlad would destroy Danny 99 times out of 100...

Williams is a work horse, he can take a shot...Vitali pounded that fool into the canvas! And it was hard work for the big guy.

Mesi is like Tommy Morrison but not as tough...Mesi gets a bit heavy but he has hella punching power for a smallish heavyweight. IMHO he could take Greenberg out EASY (Joe KO'd D. Williamson in about 10-20 seconds). Joe has had trouble with his head injury though (suffered vs Jirov) he's been off for 2 years and is just now coming back. Joe would have trouble with a boxer who has a good chin, he's a poor man's Marciano, I only like him because he's got a ton of heart and power in both hands, I think he'll end up being a good fighter but not a true champ.

cheers lyle,do you think messi would have trouble with a williams style fighter?good chin,good jab,big heart,limited skill,leaky defence,decent power,terrible concentration.

Oh yeah a big boy like DW would smother Joe and probably take his best shots....Joe has a stamina problem....damn, I forgot about Monte Barrett!

Monte fought Joe and really did well vs him...almost beat him too. So either a slick boxer or a bigger brawler would really be tough for Joe Mesi to handle

I rate Monte as an Old Vet.

What do you guys think the Ibragimovs will be able to do in the division (never seen them fight)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Alright we have 4 main titles and 4 different people holding those titles! We also have any number of good boxers and brawlers who haven't had any shots at top competition either because guys like Toney and Ruiz have hogged up the title shots or they haven't applied themselves.

Title Holders
WBA - Nicolay Valuev
WBC - Hasim Rahman
WBO - Sergei Lyakhovich
IBF - Wladimir Klitschko

Top tier contenders
Lamon Brewster
Sam Peter
Sultan Ibrigamov
Calvin Brock
Joe Mesi(perhaps)

Young Stars
Alexander Dimitrenko
Eddie Chambers
Malik Scott
Timor Ibrigamov
Ruslan Chagaev
JD Chapman
Rene Dettwieler
Kevin Johnson
Mike Marrone
Jason Estrada
Alexander Potvetinkin
Chazz Witherspoon

Old Vets
Chris Byrd
James Toney
John Ruiz
Shannon Briggs
Oleg Maskaev
Luan Krasniqi
Danny Williams
Fres Oquendo
Juan Carlos Gomez
David Tua
Jameel McCline
Kirk Johnson
Davaryl Williamson
Sinan Samil Sam

Journeymen and Bums
Tye Fields
Audley Harrison
Domminick Guinn
Lance Whittaker
Larry Donald
Ray Austin
Taurus Sykes
Vinny Maddalone
Brian Minto
Chris Koval
Mike Mollo

With this many fighters and as competitive as this division COULD be it's a shame they aren't fighting each other more. I would like pretty much any of these guys to fight each other. This division could be more exciting than ANY OTHER IN BOXING! The problem is that Don King won't put his top fighters in dangerous fights and other promoters are hesitant to do this as well.

I pose these questions
1) What fights do you want to see? What fights NEED to happen?
2) Of course who would win the proposed match ups?
3) What fights would be bad for the division?
4) What style match ups are good/bad for which fighters?

My answers
1) The title holders NEED to fight!

I want the Young guns to go up against some Top tier contenders or Old Vets

Lamon Brewster-Sam Peter
Sam Peter-Shannon Briggs
Joe Mesi-Sultan Ibrigamov
Alexander Dimitrenko-Luan Krasniqi
Eddie Chambers-Chris Byrd
Ruslan Chagaev-Sinan Samil Sam
Mike Marrone-Kirk Johnson
....just to name a few

2) Sam Peter (TKO, I don't rate the Brewster/McGirt match up, it's bad for his style)
Shannon Briggs (UD, though he gets knocked down legitly once or twice)
Sultan Ibrigamov ( UD, both fighters go down! )
Dimitrenko (UD he has 0 power)
Chambers (UD he's a younger stronger Byrd)
Chagaev (TKO he's younger and stronger)
Marrone (UD he's small and hits the canvas but wins because he's in shape)

3) Of course Byrd-Ruiz is going to be THE worst fight ever, here are more...
Scott-Harrison
Scott-Dimitrenko
Johnson-Williams (battle of the bulge)
Toney-Donald

4) This is a simple question I think the best example is Wladimir Klitschko-Chris Byrd...Chris has lost almost EVERY ROUND HE FOUGHT AGAINST Wlad!
Sam Peter-James Toney
Joe Mesi-Audley Harrison
Sam Peter-Mike Marrone
Fres Oquendo-Nicolay Valuev

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Excellent work Lyle! CC

My thoughts exactly........there is talent out there but someone needs to clear up the Heavyweight "traffic jam" and dispose of all the bums holding everyone else up.

Of course all of the ignorant fans whose favorite heavys aren't on top anymore will stick to the same old tired cliche about "the poor condition of the heavy division." Even when you put it in front of them like this they are in so much denial that they refuse to accept the new champs. To those people I say this..........your fighter lost, get over it and give Wlad the fucking credit he has earned!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

What do you guys think the Ibragimovs will be able to do in the division (never seen them fight)

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Don't know about Timor but Sultan is pretty awesome. I've been watching him for a little over a year. He has great speed, great power, and best of all, THE MAN UNDERSTANDS THE BENEFIT OF WORKING THE BODY!!

He can be fun to watch. His only real problem is that he can be too wild some times. He also crosses his feet from time to time which isn't great but this guy has a ton of amatuer experience.


I wish that he wasn't in line to fight Wlad becasue I think Wlad will take him down and hand him a devastating first loss.


Also, keep your eye on Ruslan Chagev. This is another guy that has a ton of amatuer experience and he also has a ton of power.

I want to see:

Wlad ---- Toney (doesn't deserve the shot and will pretty much get smashed but call it a guilty pleasure)

Ruslan Chagev--Brewster ( both power hitters)

OR

Wlad--Brewster 2

Peter--Briggs

OR Peter--Chagev

OR Peter--Brewster

Calvin Brock--Sultan Ibragimov

Valuev vs Sergei L

I still like the Rahman--Maskaev 2

I like the Krasniqi vs Dimitrenko match up you had up there too but I would give it to Krasniqui

Larry Donald vs Dimitrenko

Kirk Johnson vs Lamon Brewster

:coolclick: Wishing for Klitschko Vs Toney

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheDukeof74

:coolclick: Wishing for Klitschko Vs Toney

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From what I read on maxboxing that fight is pretty much set for November 11th, I guess Brewster wasn't ready or wanted Lyakhovich instead