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I think we may have done this before, but it's not one of the divisions that comes up much, so thought it would be interesting to see what Britkid everybody thinks ;)
Some of these may have not been prime at the weight (Chavez and Arguello for eg) but have put them in my list anyway.
1. Roberto Duran
2. Benny Leonard
3. Julio Cesar Chavez
4 Tony Canzoneri
5 Alexis Arguello
6 Joe Gans
7 Ike Willlaims
8 Beau Jack
9 Lou Ambers
10 Shane Mosely
Fighters that sprung to my mind straight away were:
Duran - Chavez - Arguello - Mosley, im not much of a boxing historian so i cant really comment on the others.
What about Sweat Pea what was his resume like at Lightweight?
EXACTLY, Duran is #1!
Yeh thought about Sweet P, but he was pretty much a WelterQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
I always wanted to see Duran vs Pryor...
Haha, I read the topic title as light heavyweight and when I saw Duran uptop my eyes nearly popped out of my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Anyways...
Duran, Leonard are a must at the top imo and I think that they are interchangable. Anyways, I have a few questions about the list.
Why is Canzoneri above Ambers? Ambers beat Canzo twice I beleive and ended up with the more impressive record.
Why is JCC rated at lightweight? Didn't most of his title victories take place at 129 and 140? The only times I remember him fighting at 135 was against Aguilar, so why is he rated at 135?
Why is Ike Williams outside the top 5 in favor of the rest of those guys?
With just those couple questions, I think it's a pretty good list. I love the inclusion of Joe Gans (as will Britkid I'm sure ;)) and Arguello. Good list, takes a lot of courage to make one of those, I've made a couple but I always end up poking holes in it myself and end up not posting. Hard work have a :coolclick:
LOL, well not to disappoint:
10 Sammy Angott
9 Julio Cesar Chavez
8 Bob Montgomery
7 Ike Williams
6 Battling Nelson
5 Joe Gans
4 Pernell Whitaker
3 Henry Armstrong
2 Benny Leonard
1 Roberto Duran
Mentions: Jack McAuliffe, George Lavigne, Frank Erne, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Lou Ambers, Beau Jack, Jimmy Carter, Carlos Ortiz, Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Guts Ishimatsu (Ishimatsu Suzuki), Alexis Arguello, Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Hector Camacho Snr, Oscar de la Hoya, Shane Mosley, Steve Johnson, Jose Luis Castillo and Floyd Mayweather Jr
1 and 2 pick themselves, some put Benny ahead, I can see why. Leonard and Duran are so even, it is case of picking the style you prefer IMO.
Looking at the mentions, it shows you how strong the division is; Canzoneri, Ross, Ambers, Buchanan, DeJesus and Mosley would all surely of found their name on virtually any other divisions top 10?
I can't beleive I didn't notice the absence of Whitaker from H's seeing as how Whitaker is my favorite fighter of all time. Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
Anyways, I agree with your assesment of Leonard and Duran, but you also put JCC on your list. Just wondering why? He fought at super feather the first half of his career, beat Roger Mayweather at super feather, and then I think he fought just one or two title fights at 135 before jumping up to take Mayweather's title at 140. Unless you are lumping him into lightweight using the original 8 divisions, I can't make sense of that one.
One main reason; Chavez/Rosario, IMO, the finest fight of his entire career, and the victory over Ramirez was not too shabby either. In his shortish stay at 135lbs he proved himself the dominant fighter of the division.Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO
And Any fighter who has proven himself dominant at Lightweight IMO qualifies at least for a mention on my list; and the style and dominance of his victories over Ramirez and Rosario gets him a top 10 slot.
I haven't seen the Rosario fight, but still, he only fought a couple fighs and putting him over fighters like Carter, Jack, Ambers, even Castillo doesn't sit well with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
To start of with, you got to try and see Chavez/Rosario, IMO the Greatest one sided fight you could ever see. And if you do watch it, try to remember that Rosario's 7/8 year old son, watched the entire fight from ringside.Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO
Anyway, back to your excellent point. There is no doubt the likes of Carter, Jack, Ambers and Castillo all have superb long term pedigree's at Lightweight; and nine times out of ten, I would be arguing with you, that a fighter with six fights in the division, perhaps should not be rated above the fighters you have mentioned.
But usually in boxing there are one or two fighters in a particular era who are that good, they break down the sound logic that a grizzled veteran like Beau Jack should be rated above any fighter who has had half dozen bouts at Lightweight. IMO Chavez in 85 though to 89 was that good; and from 87 though to 89, Chavez was that good as a Lightweight, thus he has a top 10 ranking, despite only having six fights at the division.
I see Mayweather and Pernell beating anybody else at lightweight prime 4 prime... only Castillo came very close to PBF and he used the perfect head movement, and ring control which Duran, JCC, and the rest never had.
Pardon
Explain that again
Chavez, Duran, Pryor, Arguello, Whitaker and Sugar Shane are a few that come to mind. #1 goes hands down to the hands of stone.
I always thought DLH was one of the most dominant LW's I've ever seen
That Chavez and alot of those guys could never corner or hit Pernell or Mayweather... Meldrick Taylor had quick hands, but not the fastest footwork or reflexes thats what did him in... also a relatively weak jaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
we just did this post like 2 weeks ago.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Post a link then ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bigragu
And thanks for your input ;)
Good points mate - I put Chavez in coz much like Arguello I would usually put him in Super Feather, but still think he deserves to get in on the lightweight list - Should've put sweet P on there to be fair - always miss someone ;) Probably could've had Carlos Ortiz aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO
I put Canzoneri ahead of Ambers, basically coz he one their first bout - and he he was already a veteran of about 140 fights at that stage and a lot older than the Prime Ambers and possibly had better opposition and more title fights. But to be honest my whole list (apart from the 1st 2) is completely subjective and could be interchangable
:coolclick:
To say Chavez had no head movement taeth, have you ever seen him. Boxers like him and Duran got by with econemy of movement and not getting hit. They moved the head when they had to or were feinting. Its very rare you saw them miss, at there best they inspired. As Brit says as a Lightweight he was remarkable, I would say his best period, He was a joy to watch, as near to perfect as Ive seen.