Whats HAPPENED to the BOXING REFEREES?! STOPPING FIGHTS TOO SOON!!!

hello guys. This is my first post.

im a hardcore boxing fan and a amatuer boxer.

Recently i have been bother by the boxing referees. THEY STOP THE FIGHTS TOO SOON!!!

Jus watch some of the fights from the dempsey or the robinson era, the fights weren't stopped too soon. Referees weren't as soft.

This has always bothered me but just recently the thought came back to mind when i was watching gary woolcombe vs eastman. i believe the fight was stopped too soon because Gilbert is an experienced fighter who could have easily regrouped himself (Thankfully this incident with eastman was mentioned in the boxing news! :)). Whcih referee was it? Ian John lewis. I was Watching Martin power vs Isaac Ward. Powers landed a beautiful punch which really rockd the challenger, nothing too serious, And the referee IAN JOHN 'G A Y' LEWIS stops the fight.
My brother who doesnt follow boxing, was also watching the fight and even he was shocked at the decision the referee made by stopping the contest!

the guy who refereed CALZAGHE vs LACY IS A WICKED REFEREE. Most people were saying that the fight should have been stopped etcetc. But if You ask the fighter himself, he would most likely want to continue because HE WOULD RATHER TAKE HIS BEATING WITH INTEGRITY - LIKE A MAN!

IF I WAS TAKING A BEATING, I WOULD NEVER WANT THE FIGHT TO BE STOPPED, I WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT HOPE THAT I COULD KNOCK THE GUY OUT WITH ONE PUNCH ( IF YOU HAVE THE KO POWER)

FIGHTS COULD TAKE SUDDEN TURNS IF THE REFEREE GIVES THE FIGHTER A CHANCE TO CONTINUE, E.G MARCIANO VS WALCOTT 1. CHRIS EUBANK VS MICHAEL WATSON 2. one of my big fears of becoming a pro boxer is 'what if my fight gets stopped too soon when i could have continued?' if i do become a pro, then i would let all the referees know that only stop my fight if i am unconcious or i give up.

i am also a great follower of the UFC (ultimate fighting championships) and PRIDE FC.
The referees in PRIDE are perfect. guys be getting stomped on and having a proper war, as long as the fighters are fine then the bout continues.

REcently even the UFC are stopping the fights too soon, if someone is floored, they dont get the chance to regroup. >:mad

the lacy n calzaghe fight, for example, ian john lewis would have stopped that fight by the 8th. I think that would have been wrong because lacy would have wanted to have continued, that TKO on his record would hurt!

In his autobiography Chris Eubank talks about how the warrior comes out, and how this only happens in the extreme of situations, thats true. BUT NOWADAYS THE REFEREES DONT GIVE A FIGHTER THE CHANCE TO PUSH THEMSELVES PAST THERE LIMITS AND HAVE SUCH AN EXPERIENCE LIKE eUBANK HAD IN THE WATSON 2 FIGHT!

In the martin power v isaac ward fight, ward was close to being stopped anyway, if the referee had waited, the guy would have been stopped in a few more seconds. WARD THEN WOULD HAVE HAD NO COMPLAINTS!!!! When fighters stop fights, the fighters tend to complain, that also shows that they not happy.

SAFETY? if the fighter doesnt wanna continue, or doesnt have the heart to continue, then he knows what he could do to stop the bout!

if you watch corrales and castillo 1, if ian john lewis or some other soft @$$ was refeering, they would have stopped the bout when corrales was floored for the second time, NOT GIVING HIM THE CHANCE TO DIG DEEP AND DO SOMETHING AMAZING AND TURN THE FIGHT AROUND! YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT ANYWAY.

THIS IS A LONG, BUT TRUTHFUL POST, YOU COULD SLA.G ME OFF BUT I HAVE GIVEN AN HONEST VIEW OF WHAT I THINK OF THE REFEERING.

PRIDE FC HAS the best referees around the world... if your have a doubt then just go on www.youtube.com and type in wander silva, or sakuraba. you'll know see the good difference. :lickish: :laugh:

also watch jack dempsey vs jess willard. the beating he took before quiting, HIMSELF! if a fighter wants to quit, he knows what he has to do. the referee allowed the fight to go on, what if willard landed with a crushing uppercut and ko'd dempsey. etc, i cant be bother chatting on and on. i think i said enough ;)

I understand your point as a boxing fan and also as a fighter but sometimes fighters can't decide for themself anymore.I'd rather see a fighter get stopped early than killed early

BTW welcome to the forum

The only problem with that argument is it is a rare occasion when a fighter will say that he has had enough. That is how ring deaths happen, the accumulation of punishment over a series of fights. There have been occasions when the fights have been stopped way to soon, but for the most part I feel that he refs do a good job IMO.

i've been reading this forum for a year or so, and i have always wanted to talk about this subject.
i never saw the need to join up until now.
You also got a good point Mathais and TyBuff.
Also, watch Ike Quartey's last fight against Carlos Bojorquez. Quartey was dominating, he had Carlos Bojorquez on the defensive through out the fight. Then in the last round, last few seconds, Quartey lands a couple of clean shots cos Carlos Bojorquez hands were low, and the referee stops the fight. I would have gone beserk on he ref if i was Carlos Bojorquez. What was the point of stopping it sooo late, hen the guy was clearly in NOOO death situation.

thanks for the welcome, atleast you guys understood what i was talking about. ;)

you'll be thankful for the ref's when you are still able to speak in complete sentences when you're 30....boxing has finally realized it needs to protect the only thing that keeps it going....the Boxers...it is a safety first issue now...it is OK to stop a fight because the fighter will get another chance..you get to live to fight another day...the same way it is in the UFC..if you remember when the UFC was beginning it eventually became banned in like 48 states....they changed the rules and Now the UFC is growing instead of becoming a defunct organization....every sport is focusing on safety and that is how it should be....losing a fight or having a fight stopped doesn't take away from your manhood...and letting a fight go too long isn't manliness.. its RETARDEDNESS!!!!! The ref's job is to insure the boxers/fighters safety....he is the only one in the ring thinking about safety...

Absolutely, though I realise that many boxers will bring gallons of heart to the ring, it's often the heart that keeps them in there, taking round after round of pounding, when really, they should have been taken out of the fight earlier. A corner will always have a slanted view of the fight, and believe their boy can come back in to it with a second/third wind, or a couple of lucky/good shots, but that is rarer than usual, and it is th ref's job to look after the fighters and make sure that they have their interests at heart. While boxing is a brutal sport at times, and the fights where both are in there ripping chunks out of each other are among the best, once a boxer can' defend himself, or mount an attack, then he shouldn't be in there.

You should be commended for your heart mate, and will to win will get you very far!

Plus the Ref is the 3rd man in the ring and he knows who has been landing the harder and cleaner effective shots...It could go either way Look at Gatti vs Ward round 9..Jim Lampley was yelling to the Ref "STOP IT FRANK,YOU CAN STOP IT ANYTIME!!!!!ARTURO GATTI'S OUT ON HIS FEET.....FRANK CAPPUCINO'S GONNA LET THEM KEEP GOING!!!!" I mean entertaining fight but what if Gatti Suffered a brain bleed and died then we would of criticized the ref for letting him get hurt.....

These guys have to live outside the ring and have a long productive life...I think the ref shows alot of compassion when they stop a guy from getting his brains beat in unnessasarily especially when they hold them up and hug them....

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

i've been reading this forum for a year or so, and i have always wanted to talk about this subject.
i never saw the need to join up until now.
You also got a good point Mathais and TyBuff.
Also, watch Ike Quartey's last fight against Carlos Bojorquez. Quartey was dominating, he had Carlos Bojorquez on the defensive through out the fight. Then in the last round, last few seconds, Quartey lands a couple of clean shots cos Carlos Bojorquez hands were low, and the referee stops the fight. I would have gone beserk on he ref if i was Carlos Bojorquez. What was the point of stopping it sooo late, hen the guy was clearly in NOOO death situation.

thanks for the welcome, atleast you guys understood what i was talking about. ;)

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You said in your first post "IF I WAS TAKING A BEATING, I WOULD NEVER WANT THE FIGHT TO BE STOPPED, I WILL ALWAYS HAVE THAT HOPE THAT I COULD KNOCK THE GUY OUT WITH ONE PUNCH ( IF YOU HAVE THE KO POWER)." Bojorquez doesn't have that knock out power to end the fight with one punch. Quartey was kicking his ass from the second round on. Bojorquez wasn't going to win and everybody (including Bojorquez himself) knew it. Still I understand what your trying to say. Which is why as tempting as it is, I won't give you your first Sc.

You would rather take a beating and end up like Gerald McClennan then have the fight stopped and have you fight another day?

Spot on Starr. Refs have absolutely no advamtage in stopping a fight early, it is all done in fighters interest. Are you honestly saying that you would risk the health and possibly lives of boxers for your entertainment. If you were a Ref and a fighter was takinga beating you would feel pretty bad if he died when you could an dshould have stepped in. There is always a chance a fighter can recover, but there is also a chance they may never recover.

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Originally Posted by Starr

You would rather take a beating and end up like Gerald McClennan then have the fight stopped and have you fight another day?

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Perfect point.

I didn't think the G-man was in any real danger in that fight until that one punch landed. I remember watching McCullough v larios, if it wasn't for McCullough reputation that fight would of been stopped allot sooner, even when it was stopped McCullough was very annoyed about it, the ref, the Doctor, his corner no one wanted to stop the fight but they did because it was the right thing to do.

Same with the lacy fight, i thought that should of been stopped, as for your point about a fighter not wanting the ref to step in, well i would expect nothingless, it is extremely rare you see a fighter saying 'OK thats enough I'm off home' it's not his job, thats part of the ref and the corner mens job to watch out for their safety. and sure 7 times out of 10 you see fighters complain and throw a tissy fit when a fight gets stopped (McCullough when he fought Larios, Judah after he done his now pattented 'Judah shuffle' when KT put him on his ass) but you better believe, when they are alone after watching the state they were in, the punches they were taking most, if not say it aloud, but admit to them selves would agree that it was the right decision.

If watching a guy getting beaten over a long time, taking punch after punch, running the risk of permanent damage then sorry boxing isn't the sport to you, may i suggest looking for some type of underground, bare knuckle boxing?

I agree that they are being stopped too soon.

What happened to a standing 8 count? If the fighter doesn't recover within that time the ref can easily waive it off. It just seems lately like a fighter who stays on their feet and is losing will have the fight stopped. They are better off taking a knee, or the ref should step in with the standing 8.

It is worth having fights stopped early for the sake of fighters health. This is not a deathmatch, both fighters are meant to leave the ring alive! This is entertainment and risks should be controlled as much as possible. I agree if all you want to see is blood on canvas then go find bare knuckle boxing. There is a reason why it is illegal. I fight, and had the towel thrown in on me. I attacked my corner as soon as I realised what had happened. I didn't realise it had taken me a full minute to realise what had happened and watching the video back I was fooked. Took a good head shot and then closed down. I should have taken my beating like a man? Given a choice I would have done out of pride, but my corner could see I wasn't going to win and conceded defeat, correct decision. Although it hurt!

NO i wouldn't want nothing to happen to my health.

If i wasn't feeling well, and thought i needed to stop early, then i would, but MY POINT IS, THAT, REFS STOP FIGHTS TOO SOON WHEN A FIGHTER IS USUALLY OK, AND WILLING TO CONTINUE.

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Originally Posted by jtrock

Plus the Ref is the 3rd man in the ring and he knows who has been landing the harder and cleaner effective shots...It could go either way Look at Gatti vs Ward round 9..Jim Lampley was yelling to the Ref "STOP IT FRANK,YOU CAN STOP IT ANYTIME!!!!!ARTURO GATTI'S OUT ON HIS FEET.....FRANK CAPPUCINO'S GONNA LET THEM KEEP GOING!!!!" I mean entertaining fight but what if Gatti Suffered a brain bleed and died then we would of criticized the ref for letting him get hurt.....

These guys have to live outside the ring and have a long productive life...I think the ref shows alot of compassion when they stop a guy from getting his brains beat in unnessasarily especially when they hold them up and hug them....

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Yeah it shows how much they care, they throw themselves in the middle of the two fighters and make sure if anyones taking more punishment then it will be the ref. Really like jumping infront of a bullet...id imagine it would hurt if you did that in a fight with a prime tyson in it as he might not stop even though youve jumped in front of them.

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

NO i wouldn't want nothing to happen to my health.

If i wasn't feeling well, and thought i needed to stop early, then i would, but MY POINT IS, THAT, REFS STOP FIGHTS TOO SOON WHEN A FIGHTER IS USUALLY OK, AND WILLING TO CONTINUE.

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Maybe the fighters are usually ok, but I would prefer to see 999 fighters stopped when they could have carried on than see 1 more fighter end up like Michael Watson or g-man.

Just a question, what do you like watching boxing for its skill, or because people get hurt? If you just like seeing people get hurt then stand in fronto of a mirror and punch yourself in the face

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Originally Posted by chrisbird13

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

NO i wouldn't want nothing to happen to my health.

If i wasn't feeling well, and thought i needed to stop early, then i would, but MY POINT IS, THAT, REFS STOP FIGHTS TOO SOON WHEN A FIGHTER IS USUALLY OK, AND WILLING TO CONTINUE.

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Maybe the fighters are usually ok, but I would prefer to see 999 fighters stopped when they could have carried on than see 1 more fighter end up like Michael Watson or g-man.

Just a question, what do you like watching boxing for its skill, or because people get hurt? If you just like seeing people get hurt then stand in fronto of a mirror and punch yourself in the face

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:coolclick: Funny as Fuk!!! do it up like Jim Carrey in LIAR,LIAR

Seeing people get hurt is NOT why I love boxing. Not one little bit.

I dislike the hurt element of boxing, but I realise that it is part of the game. A part that should be minimised.


I would never ever criticise a referee for stopping a fight, even for a 'bad stoppage' - if they honestly think that a fighter is getting hurt and is at risk, they have a moral obligation to stop the fight.

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

NO i wouldn't want nothing to happen to my health.

If i wasn't feeling well, and thought i needed to stop early, then i would, but MY POINT IS, THAT, REFS STOP FIGHTS TOO SOON WHEN A FIGHTER IS USUALLY OK, AND WILLING TO CONTINUE.

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as a fighter if your concious you will always think the fight is stopped too early, heck even when you wake up from a KO you'll still think the fight is going on...and want to fight.....The REF has to make the decision....you won't....

The boxers are advised to protect themselves at all times. The seconds' main job is to protect their fighter if he's getting too badly beaten. The job of the ref is to protect the fighters if they or their seconds are failing to do it for themselves. I would rather see fights stopped early than fighters killed or seriously injured.

And the Lacy fight should have been stopped by his corner. He was utterly ineffectual for the entire fight and getting more and more badly beaten up all the while. He was never going to win by dramatic late stoppage and he was never going to quite. He kept fighting hoever so the referee wasn't really within his rights to stop the fight, but his corner must have seen what a mess Calzaghe was making.

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

NO i wouldn't want nothing to happen to my health.

If i wasn't feeling well, and thought i needed to stop early, then i would, but MY POINT IS, THAT, REFS STOP FIGHTS TOO SOON WHEN A FIGHTER IS USUALLY OK, AND WILLING TO CONTINUE.

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Thats the thing though, sometimes the fighter doesn't know he isn't feeling well, or he doesn't feel he's been damaged as much as he has been. Leavander Johnson was furious after the fight was stopped he didn't feel what was wrong until later, and by then it was too late.

Thats why they say ref's save fighters from themselves sometimes.

Again, Good point Starr.

I will understand if the corner stops the fight because they see how the fighter is between rounds and know if he is talking sense.

The reason why the lacy fight wasnt stopped by his corner was because 'birmingham' said he didnt want to stop it cos lacy seemed fine, he was determined to continue, and plus, he could have turned the fight around with one punch!

Another example,when lennox and vitali fought, vitali was doing really well. He was cut but he was fine. When the ref stopped that fight, vitali was really pi ssed. Right...he was cut, HE WASNT GONNA DIE, IF HE WAS SO DETERMINED TO CONTINUE THEN LET HIM. yes, his eye was bloodied but vitali really wanted to continue, and could have stopped lewis in a couple of rounds cos they were going at it quite hard.

I REMember amir khan vs jackson. i think it was richie davies who stopped it in the 2nd. Now jackson certainly wasnt in a any serious danger, after all amir khan aint a dangerous puncher. Even though he outclassed jackson, there was no need to stop the contest, what harm could have 2 rounds done to him. Jacksons head was clear, THE only thing making jackson dizzy that night was khans handspeed.

i mean, gypsy fighters fight for hours, bloodied faces, broken noses etc and they continue to fight until one gives in, AND YES THEY DO QUIT AT TIMES.

ALL IM SAYING IS THAT REFEREES NEED TO really THINK HARD ABOUT WEATHER TO STOP THE CONTEST. I HAVE SEEN MANY STOPPAGES THAT I THOUGHT WERE DONE RIGHT COS THE FIGHT JUS COULDN'T PROTECT HIMSELF. I AM ON ABOUT THE STOPPAGES WHICH ARE DONE TOO SOON. I HOPE A REFEREE READS THIS POST AND THINKS ABOUT IT. ONE REFEREE NOT MAKING AN EARLY STOPPAGE WOULD BE A GREAT THING.

;D sla g me of, atleast i have said what i willed. 8) ;)

You bring up Vitali but consider that if the fight had gone further that cut potentially could have gotten much worse. See it's not always when a fighter is in trouble, it's when a fighter can no longer effectively defend themselv anymore. thats why fights are stopped on cuts because of the potential that it could

A) have a bad lasting result

b) worsen to the point where the fighter can no longer competently defend themself.

Its not just because the other fighter is hurt.

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Originally Posted by Starr

You would rather take a beating and end up like Gerald McClennan then have the fight stopped and have you fight another day?

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thats what I'm saying....

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Originally Posted by Starr

You bring up Vitali but consider that if the fight had gone further that cut potentially could have gotten much worse. See it's not always when a fighter is in trouble, it's when a fighter can no longer effectively defend themselv anymore. thats why fights are stopped on cuts because of the potential that it could

A) have a bad lasting result

b) worsen to the point where the fighter can no longer competently defend themself.

Its not just because the other fighter is hurt.

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dont forget
C) he could lose his eye!!!!!!!! those type of cuts have a way of destroying the vision...

i agree in general that fights are stopped to early. EVERY fight should have the standing 8 in effect. i have always thought LL got f-ed by the ref in the 1st rahman fight. just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

Again, Good point Starr.

I will understand if the corner stops the fight because they see how the fighter is between rounds and know if he is talking sense.

The reason why the lacy fight wasnt stopped by his corner was because 'birmingham' said he didnt want to stop it cos lacy seemed fine, he was determined to continue, and plus, he could have turned the fight around with one punch!

Another example,when lennox and vitali fought, vitali was doing really well. He was cut but he was fine. When the ref stopped that fight, vitali was really pi ssed. Right...he was cut, HE WASNT GONNA DIE, IF HE WAS SO DETERMINED TO CONTINUE THEN LET HIM. yes, his eye was bloodied but vitali really wanted to continue, and could have stopped lewis in a couple of rounds cos they were going at it quite hard.

I REMember amir khan vs jackson. i think it was richie davies who stopped it in the 2nd. Now jackson certainly wasnt in a any serious danger, after all amir khan aint a dangerous puncher. Even though he outclassed jackson, there was no need to stop the contest, what harm could have 2 rounds done to him. Jacksons head was clear, THE only thing making jackson dizzy that night was khans handspeed.

i mean, gypsy fighters fight for hours, bloodied faces, broken noses etc and they continue to fight until one gives in, AND YES THEY DO QUIT AT TIMES.

ALL IM SAYING IS THAT REFEREES NEED TO really THINK HARD ABOUT WEATHER TO STOP THE CONTEST. I HAVE SEEN MANY STOPPAGES THAT I THOUGHT WERE DONE RIGHT COS THE FIGHT JUS COULDN'T PROTECT HIMSELF. I AM ON ABOUT THE STOPPAGES WHICH ARE DONE TOO SOON. I HOPE A REFEREE READS THIS POST AND THINKS ABOUT IT. ONE REFEREE NOT MAKING AN EARLY STOPPAGE WOULD BE A GREAT THING.

;D sla g me of, atleast i have said what i willed. 8) ;)

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SC. I think you are being short sided on this issue. 95% of the fighters would tell you that they could have gone on. But the problem is nobody knows when brain damage occurs with a fighter. Ive heard about a fighter dieing after one bout, others have had 30+ fights. There will always be time that people will feel that a fight is stopped to soon, but I would rather hear about to soon than to late. Dont get me wrong I know there have been some horrible early stops (Cotto/Corley comes to mind), but for the most part I am OK with it.

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

Again, Good point Starr.

I will understand if the corner stops the fight because they see how the fighter is between rounds and know if he is talking sense.

The reason why the lacy fight wasnt stopped by his corner was because 'birmingham' said he didnt want to stop it cos lacy seemed fine, he was determined to continue, and plus, he could have turned the fight around with one punch!

Another example,when lennox and vitali fought, vitali was doing really well. He was cut but he was fine. When the ref stopped that fight, vitali was really pi ssed. Right...he was cut, HE WASNT GONNA DIE, IF HE WAS SO DETERMINED TO CONTINUE THEN LET HIM. yes, his eye was bloodied but vitali really wanted to continue, and could have stopped lewis in a couple of rounds cos they were going at it quite hard.

I REMember amir khan vs jackson. i think it was richie davies who stopped it in the 2nd. Now jackson certainly wasnt in a any serious danger, after all amir khan aint a dangerous puncher. Even though he outclassed jackson, there was no need to stop the contest, what harm could have 2 rounds done to him. Jacksons head was clear, THE only thing making jackson dizzy that night was khans handspeed.

i mean, gypsy fighters fight for hours, bloodied faces, broken noses etc and they continue to fight until one gives in, AND YES THEY DO QUIT AT TIMES.

ALL IM SAYING IS THAT REFEREES NEED TO really THINK HARD ABOUT WEATHER TO STOP THE CONTEST. I HAVE SEEN MANY STOPPAGES THAT I THOUGHT WERE DONE RIGHT COS THE FIGHT JUS COULDN'T PROTECT HIMSELF. I AM ON ABOUT THE STOPPAGES WHICH ARE DONE TOO SOON. I HOPE A REFEREE READS THIS POST AND THINKS ABOUT IT. ONE REFEREE NOT MAKING AN EARLY STOPPAGE WOULD BE A GREAT THING.

;D sla g me of, atleast i have said what i willed. 8) ;)

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SC. I think you are being short sided on this issue. 95% of the fighters would tell you that they could have gone on. But the problem is nobody knows when brain damage occurs with a fighter. Ive heard about a fighter dieing after one bout, others have had 30+ fights. There will always be time that people will feel that a fight is stopped to soon, but I would rather hear about to soon than to late. Dont get me wrong I know there have been some horrible early stops (Cotto/Corley comes to mind), but for the most part I am OK with it.

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perhaps refs should take a few classes on how to tell when a fighter is REALLY in trouble (which im sure they do). anyone remeber richard steele? that ref STILL gets booed! (tyson vs rudduck)

I'm never in favor. And I mean never. Of seeing a fighter get hurt or worse killed. But that dosn't mean a good amount of referee's don't jump the gun. Numerous fights have been ruined by early stoppages. Calzaghe-Mitchell, Brewer-Echols, Most of Richard Steele's fights and those are just a few.