say 230-240+ It seems to me that when a guy has over 100 pound in weight difference,
It gives him a bit power advantage (the whole velocity equation comes to mind)
I think there are plenty of good fighters at 230+
What do ya'll think?
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say 230-240+ It seems to me that when a guy has over 100 pound in weight difference,
It gives him a bit power advantage (the whole velocity equation comes to mind)
I think there are plenty of good fighters at 230+
What do ya'll think?
probably maybe 240 plus
I thought the weight difference between holyfield and lewis was a bit much...if my mind serves me correctly
Any fight with Valuev comes to mind for me he weighs in at like 329
No there will NEVER be a reason to have a super heavyweight division....if it starts at 240 then what are people going to say about Valuev he's 320+ pounds...people will call for bigger and bigger divisions.
Heavyweights aren't usually the fighters killed in the ring, yeah people can get hurt but it hasn't been a recent issue for the heavyweights.
The division is fine as it is....if you make a superheavyweight division where do the superstars go? Heavyweight is the MAIN division of boxing if you make another division you'll essentially have 3 cruiserweight divisions!
Smaller, lighter men hit harder than Valuev does. its very rare to get some one with the genetics to be that large as well as the genetics to have a good punch
Sounds good in principle but it would not work IMO.
If you weigh 210lbs and are missing out on the bigger ;) pay days the Super Heavyweights were getting, you would soon be putting on the weight required to fight in the bigger division.
Show me an era where a guy weighing 220 can't dominate?
Foreman 220
Ali 190's-225
Tyson 220
Frazier 215
Joe Louis 210
There is no need for a superheavyweight division!
apart from the klitschko's and Valeuv (who is crap anyway), who exactly is gonna be in the superheeavy weight division?
Agreed with Lyle here. Besides, if they made a super heavy (which they did before) then regular heavys would just bloat themselves to get the bigger guys to fight them.
The heavyweight divison is crap anyway so a superheavyweight divison would be even worse
100 pound diff ??? NO. with maybe the expcetin of Valuev. His size doesnt give him any huge advantage. Hes slo n uncoordinated n not much power either. That a skilled boxer even at 210 would be able to beat. U think Holyfield in his prime couldnt beat a monster like Valuev? M sure Holyfield would KO Valuev.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
the heavyweight division is bereft of talent as it is. why make 2 divisions!
The last thing Boxing needs is another division. It needs to eliminate divisions, instead of adding them.
Does anyone really think that Valuev would have ever beaten Muhammed Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield etc etc? Weight divisions are to make a bout even and fair and to prevent smaller fighters from becoming too injured. A decent heavyweight would have little trouble with Valuev no matter how tall he is. Besides which, other 300 lbs monsters are also fighters in the heavyweight division. Eric "Butterbean" Esch for example. Can anyone imagine Butterbean coming close to winning a world title, even with today's lack of competition? 220 - 240 lbs seems to be the ideal weight range for most modern heavyweights, once you go higher than that fighters start to slow, lose power, lose stamina. All that Valuev will be against a good heavyweight will be a big slow 330 lb punching bag. Now all we need is a good heavyweight... Anyone?
Marciano, Dempsey and maybe even Frazier if his chin is good enough...Quote:
Originally Posted by squealpiggy
Evolution, means Valuev puts himself in a great posiition to beat all three of them, IMO. ;)
This is Jack Dempsey who in 1919 faced off against 6'6" Jess Willard who had a 50 lbs weight advantage and was knocked to the ground 5 times in the first round before being finished off in the third. Jack Dempsey in his prime weighed closer to 200 lbs, and had more power and speed. He would KO Valuev quickly in my opinion. Marciano had mad power and a great defense and despite fighting in a bit of a down era in heavyweight boxing dominated everyone. And I really couldn't see Valuev having any answer whatsoever to Smokin Joe's volume of punches. It would be a barrage. Any one of those fighters would KO Valuev in the fifth or sixth.
I'm wondering if Frazier can even reach Valuev chin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
:oQuote:
Originally Posted by squealpiggy
Unless of course you mean his face? ;D
No, I apologize, you are entitled to your opinion... ;)
He picked up a few knocks but he had quite a subtle method of devending using his elbows, rolling with punches, rolling the shoulder etc. And he would still have ltitle trouble with Valuev...
He would have had IMO (pun intended) huge problems with Valuev.Quote:
Originally Posted by squealpiggy
Marciano (Marciano's management) avoided the big men of the division like the plague. Rocky's great strength was his strength; he would try to out last his opponent, by just being so intense, that his opponent would fold.
That tactic worked against the 180 to 220lbs opponents The Brockton Blockbuster fought, but IMO and seemingly in Marciano's management opinion, would not of worked against the big men.
....Britkid, which big men imparticular did Marciano avoid???
He retired to get rid of his manager who was stealing from him and his training was catching up with him but he wanted Ingmar Johansen as a come back fight.
To be honest, I think there's already more than enough divisions in the pro game, and with some of the greatest fighters being able to grab belts in three divisions, then there might be a case of reducing them somewhat. Granted, my support fo this would be mainly to help keep track of all the different titlists in all the different divisions.
Does anyone know how many worldwide belts there are altogether? And obviously some of the title holders also have minor international ones again which just confuse me even more.
Our very own Fighting Farmer Alan Jones actually fought Irish lad Jim Rock for the IBC World Middleweight title, all respect to him for being a world title fighter, but who the hell are the IBC?
Anyway, that's why I'm such a big fan of fighters looking to unify divisions, to help me with my ADHD and lack of concentration when it comes to all the belts!
here is a thread i started about the number of boxing organisations. It seems to be a fairly comprehensive list:
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...html#msg359760
LOL...evolution!??!? are you saying that Valuev is more evolved than the fighters mentioned??? not to get into a darwinian discussion with you but I doubt Valuev is more "evolved" than even anyone on this board ;)...Nutrition and training have gotten better but but I doubt Valuev is anything more than a "freak" that was discovered by some very motivated promoters...does a mediocre giant beat a mediocre small guy? yes....but have you seen Valuev fight??? Johnny Ruiz gave him everything he could handle and in my opinion won!....Jesse Willard was easily knocked stiff by Dempsey, Frazier crushed Ernie Terrell, Holyfield and Tyson had pretty good runs too....I adhere to the Vince Lombardi philosophy "it's not the size of the dog in the fight...it's the size of the fight in the dog"...of course, this is within reason...I doubt Valuev beats any of the champions mentioned above...but that's only my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
Yup, it just about becomes ridiculous where we are at the moment. Eventually it will get to the point where a promoter will have some cronies set up a Boxing Organisation, or buy a small one out, and have all his boxers 'World Champions' just to make it look good on the bloody posters.
EVOLUTION??? Who brought that up?!?!?! Look at Valuev's head and tell me he has evolved! He looks like he was thawed out of a glacier!!!
Seriously I would consider Valuev to be one of the greatest evidences against evolution. I'm suprised the Christian right in America havn't touted him as proof that we never evolved from ape men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
I mean how can people say we evolved from hairy ape men ancestors millions of years ago when they are clearly still alive and well and living in Russia?
There are grazing cattle out in the fields who are on Valium hoping this division doesn't come into existence.
Ah, the good old American Christian Right. The stooge for any joke people can find to make! It's not just Valuev though, but many of the more ferocious all-action boxers do seem to be in an earlier stage of evolution, the kind that makes a bear charge at one ina pack of dogs, not caring about what damage he'll take from the other dogs. Surely being in an earlier stage of evolution is welcomed by the managers who want these reckless fighters that go in with no care for their own being, attacking on a pure survival instinct.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
240 lbs. is still too low for me. I would start at 250. There are plenty of guys weighing 250 lbs. or more in boxing today.
Valuev's destruction of Owen Beck gives additional credence to the notion that some guys are so big that if they have any skills at all, they're too strong for the regular sized heavyweights. Valuev is still not that skilled but he's good enough. His technique is improving. Beck was surprised as heck, no pun intended. He said that Valuev did some things that they didn't see on tapes of Valuev's previous fights. Once Valuev uses combinations and gets more leverage on his punches it's all over for most of the smaller heavyweights. They won't stand a chance. It's bordering on an unfair contest to pit Valuev against guys in the 200 to 240 lb. range. Even most guys around 250 lbs. are overmatched. If Valuev fought Ruiz again I think he would knock the "quiet man" out.
no way, the heavyweight divison should stay as it is
Nope, no more divisions.
Valuev just needs to fight some good fighters. Most of the guys he has fought are poor missmatches. Pure and simple, its just crappy matchmaking that makes Valuev look so dominant.
I reckon he'd look more co-ordinated and his fights would be more entertaining if he fought real contenders. And if possible, guys over 6'4. ;)
You cannot possibly argue that Valuev is too big for the heavyweight division simply because he could possibly knock out John Ruiz in a rematch!Quote:
Originally Posted by mokele
There are loads of fighters from the past who everyone on this board would take to beat Valuev, Lewis, Ali, Holmes, prime Tyson, prime Holyfield, Jack Johnson, Sonny Liston, George Foreman etc. Wlad would be an overwhelming favourite to beat him with the vast majority of fans as well, although personally I'll be rooting for the Sasquatch if that fight ever takes place.
I propose that boxing goes the other way in fact. Get rid of all the junior weights and just have 8 weight divisions. Much more fun!
I thought they did that in the 80's...it wound up being a bunch of fat men fighting each other.....it was not good fighting.....quite painful to watch actually...it didn't last long at all....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The "super heavy division" has been tried before...here's a name for all you PRO SuperHeavyweight Division jackasses
PRIMO CARNERA
Big goofy and a horrible fighter....yet I'd pick him to beat a guy like Valuev
If there was a legion of huge fighters over 6'7 and 250 lbs who dominated every heavyweight bout meaning that there was a whole gamut of 6'3 230 lb fighters who were basically left without a division then there may be a case for introducing a new division. As it happens the heavyweight division is dominated by fighters weighing 220 - 240 lbs and has been ever since the Cruiserweight division was conceived. Valuev is really the only truly massive heavyweight and he's never fought a real fighter. He could unify the division, he has the strength, skills and power to do so. Could he have unified the division ten eyars ago? Doubtful. But we're in a weak era for heavyweights at the moment.
no way...you don't see a superweight football league do you?....or rugby...or basketball...or baseball...hockey...Hw meand HW.....if you can't hang time to get out...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Dog
he could reach those ribs......Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Yeah it ain't like Valuev can move fast anyways...he's 7'0 and 320+ pounds of a heavybag with a jab is what it boils down to
But if it were a lightweight fighting a heavyweight, then you would hear the cries of not fair not fair. The heavyweights are the only division that has to fight guys with close to 100 pound weight difference. And that's not fair.