Boxers Who's Records Are Built On Bums

It amazes me that so many undefeated boxers and boxers with few losses have really fought noone and are actually green themselves. Guys like Sean O'Grady, Brent Cooper and others come to mind, but it amazed me that a guy whos like 30-0 can fight a guy whos debuting. Do these guys really see themselves as great fighters? Can anyone think of any others

nicolay valuev is probably the worst offender

Yeah Nicolay Valeuv for actually getting this far without being found out.

and Audley Harrison but he was found out before he got to anywhere worthwhile.

I think it is getting to be somewhat of an epidemic with eastern european who do come to the west with long undefeated records, and really they've just been fighting sparring partners or jokers for $20.

Just glancing at the boxrec records, you've got Aleksandr Dimitrenko and Ruslan Chagaev. Theydo have some competent British boxers on their records, well Cahgaev beat Mark Krence, though I wouldn't call Dimitrenko's scalping of Julius Francis quite up there.

But then again, there aren't too many big-name quality boxers out there that aren't rated as contenders, and shows the weakness of the HW division.
As for the other divisions, I'm sure there are plenty of others who fight chumps for the first few years to build that record, so the manager can start touting him as a somebody three years down the line, just because of a long streak of wins. C'est la vie.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

I think it is getting to be somewhat of an epidemic with eastern european who do come to the west with long undefeated records, and really they've just been fighting sparring partners or jokers for $20.

Just glancing at the boxrec records, you've got Aleksandr Dimitrenko and Ruslan Chagaev. Theydo have some competent British boxers on their records, well Cahgaev beat Mark Krence, though I wouldn't call Dimitrenko's scalping of Julius Francis quite up there.

But then again, there aren't too many big-name quality boxers out there that aren't rated as contenders, and shows the weakness of the HW division.
As for the other divisions, I'm sure there are plenty of others who fight chumps for the first few years to build that record, so the manager can start touting him as a somebody three years down the line, just because of a long streak of wins. C'est la vie.

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:coolclick: I would have to agree with you. The promoters do not want their potential meal tickets to get exsposed to early. They got to make some money off of them first. Besides name a fighter that hasnt built up a record full of bums till they get a title fight or #1 contender bout, then hopefully it is somebody (sometimes it is sometimes not). But for good reason most pros wont fight somebody till they are in line for a title.

Personally I would say that it is indicative of much deeper seated problem in the sport. Because having an undefeated record is desireable, people now seem to avoid risking it in big fighs, and therefore avoid the big fights. With the plethora of titles available, 9 at my last count, many fighters get one belt and then fight mandatories and bums to up their defences.

Examples of this are PBF and Hatton, they as far as I am aware are the only two really highly rated welters with 0's and they are rated 1 and 2 by box rec, yet the idea of a fight is nothing but a pipe dream because neither will risk their zero.

Hence it is almost the fans fault for being sucked in by the word undefeated, which means that there are fighter building up long records of fighting bums in order to make themselves have more appeal.

what about that european garden Gnome Arturo Gatti fought in his last fight?
He had a padded record too

Marciano ;)

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Originally Posted by The_One77

what about that european garden Gnome Arturo Gatti fought in his last fight?
He had a padded record too

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Daamgard

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Originally Posted by chrisbird13

Personally I would say that it is indicative of much deeper seated problem in the sport. Because having an undefeated record is desireable, people now seem to avoid risking it in big fighs, and therefore avoid the big fights. With the plethora of titles available, 9 at my last count, many fighters get one belt and then fight mandatories and bums to up their defences.

Examples of this are PBF and Hatton, they as far as I am aware are the only two really highly rated welters with 0's and they are rated 1 and 2 by box rec, yet the idea of a fight is nothing but a pipe dream because neither will risk their zero.

Hence it is almost the fans fault for being sucked in by the word undefeated, which means that there are fighter building up long records of fighting bums in order to make themselves have more appeal.

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PBF and padded record don't go together if that is what you're insinuating. Judah, Gatti, Castillo (2), Mitchell, Chavez, Corrales and Augustus are all far from bums.

Some of you people seem to think that fringe contenders are bums. No. Bums are 2-17 fighters who box at local fairs and ballrooms as fillers. Fighting them is fine...when you're starting out. Sean O'Grady fought these guys his whole career. Marciano fought the best. Euros tend to take a little while longer to get big fights but that doesn't mean Hatton has only fought bums. Phillips, Tackie, Magee, Oliveira, Tszyu, Massua and Collazo aren't bums.

Cesar Chavez and Duran took on alot of bums at the beginning of their carreer's

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Originally Posted by The_One77

Cesar Chavez and Duran took on alot of bums at the beginning of their carreer's

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I see our earlier debates did stick with you a little bit ;)....those are the first two that defintely would have come to mind...esp Duran... and and I'll add mike tyson to that list...

Tyson
duran
chavez

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by chrisbird13

Personally I would say that it is indicative of much deeper seated problem in the sport. Because having an undefeated record is desireable, people now seem to avoid risking it in big fighs, and therefore avoid the big fights. With the plethora of titles available, 9 at my last count, many fighters get one belt and then fight mandatories and bums to up their defences.

Examples of this are PBF and Hatton, they as far as I am aware are the only two really highly rated welters with 0's and they are rated 1 and 2 by box rec, yet the idea of a fight is nothing but a pipe dream because neither will risk their zero.

Hence it is almost the fans fault for being sucked in by the word undefeated, which means that there are fighter building up long records of fighting bums in order to make themselves have more appeal.

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PBF and padded record don't go together if that is what you're insinuating. Judah, Gatti, Castillo (2), Mitchell, Chavez, Corrales and Augustus are all far from bums.

Some of you people seem to think that fringe contenders are bums. No. Bums are 2-17 fighters who box at local fairs and ballrooms as fillers. Fighting them is fine...when you're starting out. Sean O'Grady fought these guys his whole career. Marciano fought the best. Euros tend to take a little while longer to get big fights but that doesn't mean Hatton has only fought bums. Phillips, Tackie, Magee, Oliveira, Tszyu, Massua and Collazo aren't bums.

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I think what he was getting at here was that the fight between PBF and Hatton, which I agree is very unlikely to come around anytime soon, though they do have enough star quality to attract relativel big-buck fights withough squaring off against each other, with the risk of being shown as not the best in the division.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by chrisbird13

Personally I would say that it is indicative of much deeper seated problem in the sport. Because having an undefeated record is desireable, people now seem to avoid risking it in big fighs, and therefore avoid the big fights. With the plethora of titles available, 9 at my last count, many fighters get one belt and then fight mandatories and bums to up their defences.

Examples of this are PBF and Hatton, they as far as I am aware are the only two really highly rated welters with 0's and they are rated 1 and 2 by box rec, yet the idea of a fight is nothing but a pipe dream because neither will risk their zero.

Hence it is almost the fans fault for being sucked in by the word undefeated, which means that there are fighter building up long records of fighting bums in order to make themselves have more appeal.

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PBF and padded record don't go together if that is what you're insinuating. Judah, Gatti, Castillo (2), Mitchell, Chavez, Corrales and Augustus are all far from bums.

Some of you people seem to think that fringe contenders are bums. No. Bums are 2-17 fighters who box at local fairs and ballrooms as fillers. Fighting them is fine...when you're starting out. Sean O'Grady fought these guys his whole career. Marciano fought the best. Euros tend to take a little while longer to get big fights but that doesn't mean Hatton has only fought bums. Phillips, Tackie, Magee, Oliveira, Tszyu, Massua and Collazo aren't bums.

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I think what he was getting at here was that the fight between PBF and Hatton, which I agree is very unlikely to come around anytime soon, though they do have enough star quality to attract relativel big-buck fights withough squaring off against each other, with the risk of being shown as not the best in the division.

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I don't think that the risk of their records isn't why the fight wouldn't happen...i think hatton can't handle the extra 7 pound at WW..and with PBF trying to go to 154...this fight is at two pbf fights away,because floyd doesn't get Oscar he'll probably fight margarito...

jc jr.

ward

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by The_One77

Cesar Chavez and Duran took on alot of bums at the beginning of their carreer's

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I see our earlier debates did stick with you a little bit ;)....those are the first two that defintely would have come to mind...esp Duran... and and I'll add mike tyson to that list...

Tyson
duran
chavez

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naaa, it's not really that.....i knew it all along but i respected the fact that Duran did what he did in his career u know.

Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

It amazes me that so many undefeated boxers and boxers with few losses have really fought noone and are actually green themselves. Guys like Sean O'Grady, Brent Cooper and others come to mind, but it amazed me that a guy whos like 30-0 can fight a guy whos debuting. Do these guys really see themselves as great fighters? Can anyone think of any others

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exactly ...there is no way in hell a fighter with 30 fights should be fighting someone in their first fight.or 5th or even 10th..this is pathetic....and it will be like a 10 rounder to boot.... real fight fans can see through this bs....most media just look at records.....kinda like betting the horses..we know the races, legnths, times, quality of opposition and the press bets on the horses name...even the press gets lucky once and awhile....

Samuel Peter
Jeff Lacy

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Originally Posted by zinmex

Samuel Peter
Jeff Lacy

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Hatton...Kessler...Adam....

Hattons fighters were no bums at all, thats just dumb, just because you havn't heard of them doesnt mean they are bums.

Hatton and Tyson are similar, they stepped up to the plate and hit the ball out of the park when they were up against tough oposition, in Tysons case he hit the ball out of the damn city.

I geuss Ali's, Fraziers, Jack Johnsons and other So called legends were built on fighting bums as well?

You dont expect a future hall of famer to be fighting guys that are 20-0 when they have only had up to 10 pro fights. Thats just silly.

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Originally Posted by Starr

Marciano ;)

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Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Don Cockell and Ezzard Charles were not bums
Marciano fought everyone available. Beat everyone availble, then retired.

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

jc jr.

ward

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Leave him alone, he had no amatuer career so he's gettin his experience now.

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by chrisbird13

Personally I would say that it is indicative of much deeper seated problem in the sport. Because having an undefeated record is desireable, people now seem to avoid risking it in big fighs, and therefore avoid the big fights. With the plethora of titles available, 9 at my last count, many fighters get one belt and then fight mandatories and bums to up their defences.

Examples of this are PBF and Hatton, they as far as I am aware are the only two really highly rated welters with 0's and they are rated 1 and 2 by box rec, yet the idea of a fight is nothing but a pipe dream because neither will risk their zero.

Hence it is almost the fans fault for being sucked in by the word undefeated, which means that there are fighter building up long records of fighting bums in order to make themselves have more appeal.

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PBF and padded record don't go together if that is what you're insinuating. Judah, Gatti, Castillo (2), Mitchell, Chavez, Corrales and Augustus are all far from bums.

Some of you people seem to think that fringe contenders are bums. No. Bums are 2-17 fighters who box at local fairs and ballrooms as fillers. Fighting them is fine...when you're starting out. Sean O'Grady fought these guys his whole career. Marciano fought the best. Euros tend to take a little while longer to get big fights but that doesn't mean Hatton has only fought bums. Phillips, Tackie, Magee, Oliveira, Tszyu, Massua and Collazo aren't bums.

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Fair play PBF has taken a lot of very big fights, as has Hatton (I am a Hatton fan). However it is politics which means that until the later stages of their careers they are treading water in between big fights fighting fights that everybody knows they should win

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Originally Posted by Sheps

Hattons fighters were no bums at all, thats just dumb, just because you havn't heard of them doesnt mean they are bums.

Hatton and Tyson are similar, they stepped up to the plate and hit the ball out of the park when they were up against tough oposition, in Tysons case he hit the ball out of the damn city.

I geuss Ali's, Fraziers, Jack Johnsons and other So called legends were built on fighting bums as well?

You dont expect a future hall of famer to be fighting guys that are 20-0 when they have only had up to 10 pro fights. Thats just silly.

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I'll concede the Hatton thing because I haven't see alot of his fights....but its true ..If you wuppup on everyone available you can't be slighted.....so I apologise for the Hatton thing....but I stick by the other 2...

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Starr

Marciano ;)

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Archie Moore, Joe Louis, Don Cockell and Ezzard Charles were not bums
Marciano fought everyone available. Beat everyone availble, then retired.

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Well said that man :coolclick:

most of warrens fighters :D

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

jc jr.

ward

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Leave him alone, he had no amatuer career so he's gettin his experience now.

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its true though right? ;)

Hector Camacho Jr

corey spinks....

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Originally Posted by Starr

Marciano ;)

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u forgot louis, starr ;D

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.

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and joe louis

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Originally Posted by undefeated

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.

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and joe louis

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:lolhaha:

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

corey spinks....

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Roy Jones Jr.

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Originally Posted by The_One77

what about that european garden Gnome Arturo Gatti fought in his last fight?
He had a padded record too

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Perhaps,but Damgaard gave Gatti a hell of a fight

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Originally Posted by drgoodlooking

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

corey spinks....

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Roy Jones Jr.

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If ROy Jones.Jr record is built on bums....everybody that fought in the modern era built their records on bums...based off accomplishment no fighters opponents achieved more in the ring than Roy jones jr's did....

Everybody fights bums, stoolies and tomato cans at the beginning of their career, without exception (well OK, Azumah Nelson and Jeff Fenech spring to mind as exceptions that prove the rule)

The good fighters are the ones who stop fighting bums when they reach main event status. That said, you can only fight what is around (Marciano)

With very, very few exceptions, every fighter, who has/had an excellent statistical pro record, has met his fair share of 'bums'.

That is just common sense...

If you want to ruin a potentially excellent fighter, stick him in 50/50 fights from day one. ;)

Agreed - fighters have to learn to fight (technically, under pressure and in front of a crowd). They need to experience different scenarios and come through them .... and they have to learn the habit of winning.

Just as we have some easy days at work, they also need some easy days at work every once in a while.

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Originally Posted by X

Everybody fights bums, stoolies and tomato cans at the beginning of their career, without exception (well OK, Azumah Nelson and Jeff Fenech spring to mind as exceptions that prove the rule)
The good fighters are the ones who stop fighting bums when they reach main event status. That said, you can only fight what is around (Marciano)

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Dont forget De La Hoya and Tszyu