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How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
I'm not bashing Roy and I'm not even saying that Bernard deserves to now rank higher on the all time p4p list than Roy, but I think he at least deserves to be even with him for these reasons. Even though Roy won belts in 4 divisions and Hopkins only won in 2, Bernard became the undisputed champ of both divisions, while Roy only was undisputed at one weight class, light heavyweight (and some even question that for his not fighting Dariusz). Next, when Roy got his @ss kicked, he was mentally destroyed and unable to overcome it, whereas Hopkins loses 2 close fights, moves up, and dominates Tarver (all at the age of 41 mind you). Hopkins has also never come remotely close to being stopped or KO'd. Even though Roy beat him we all know Bernard was too green at that time. I do blame him though just as much as Roy for there not being a rematch because they're both stubborn. Roy also is far and away the better athlete with more natural ability, but I think Bernard evens that out with his superior toughness and technical skill that is second to no one.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
A) Hopkins wasn't knocked out ;)
Anyway I don't know who you rank higher on the p4p lists, They will probably are equal. Hopkins did his thing in his divisions and Roy did his thing in his divisions. Hopkins is more recent, but you can't discredit what Roy's already done.
They are going to be equal on the p4p lists probably.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his ass anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his a** anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
Disagree with virtually everything you tried to say. If one of your reasonings for Roy ranking higher than Hopkins is because he won when they fought, than I guess Clinton Mitchell must also rank higher than Bernard, considering he beat him too. The fact is Bernard was not the fighter he would become later and everyone knows that. It's also laughable to say Roy beat better competition, let alone FAR better competition ;D ;D. You do realize that Roy had his top p4p spot snatched by nearly half of boxing writers before he even lost because his opponents were jokes right? That's when some guys started putting Mosley or Trinidad #1, pretty embarrassing when you think about it. Even intellegent Jones fans acknowledge that Hopkins would have given Roy problems no matter when they fought. It's clear you see things through Roy rose colored glasses though. I agree with everyone else that they rank evenly.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
A) Hopkins wasn't knocked out ;)
Anyway I don't know who you rank higher on the p4p lists, They will probably are equal. Hopkins did his thing in his divisions and Roy did his thing in his divisions. Hopkins is more recent, but you can't discredit what Roy's already done.
They are going to be equal on the p4p lists probably.
they would be like a 1 and 1a....not THE #1p4p mind you but as far as they go....RJJ has to get the edge simply because he beat him...a green HOPKINS but a win nonetheless...but, because of the enormous improvement of B-HOP it makes this almost impossible to come to a decision on who is better...RJJ embarrassed fighters with speed and power...B-HOP beat his opponents with an excellent gameplan, conditioning and EXECUTION....B-HOP was an excellent boxer..RJJ was an excellent fighter...there is a difference....which is why I say 1 and 1a...
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his a** anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
Disagree with virtually everything you tried to say. If one of your reasonings for Roy ranking higher than Hopkins is because he won when they fought, than I guess Clinton Mitchell must also rank higher than Bernard, considering he beat him too. The fact is Bernard was not the fighter he would become later and everyone knows that. It's also laughable to say Roy beat better competition, let alone FAR better competition ;D ;D. You do realize that Roy had his top p4p spot snatched by nearly half of boxing writers before he even lost because his opponents were jokes right? That's when some guys started putting Mosley or Trinidad #1, pretty embarrassing when you think about it. Even intellegent Jones fans acknowledge that Hopkins would have given Roy problems no matter when they fought. It's clear you see things through Roy rose colored glasses though. I agree with everyone else that they rank evenly.
I doubt that. Roys style would have beaten Hopkins ;) Just because Bernard beat Tarver doesn't mean he would have beaten Roy.
They do rank evenly I do agree with that. But I disagree with you saying that Roy's opponents are all jokes. Since most went on to become Champions. Just like Mayweathers ;)
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Who ever said Roy would lose to Hopkins ::** ??? I said Hopkins would have given Roy trouble no matter what to dispute the nonsense that "a prime Roy kicks Bernard's a** any day of the week." ::**
Also, learn to read, no one ever said ALL of Roy's opponents were jokes.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
I didn't say that either, I was just making a point. Why you have to take everything like I'm addressing you when I'm simply makign a point ;)
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
I think Hopkins fought tougher competition and achieved much more than Roy, and he done while fighting stiffer competition. He fought Roy when he was green. If they would've fought in the last 10 years, B-Hop would have beat his ass.
P4P B-Hop should also be higher than Roy. He's never been knocked out, and he beat the crap out of both fighters who knocked Roy on his face.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
I think Hopkins fought tougher competition and achieved much more than Roy, and he done while fighting stiffer competition. He fought Roy when he was green. If they would've fought in the last 10 years, B-Hop would have beat his ass.
P4P B-Hop should also be higher than Roy. He's never been knocked out, and he beat the crap out of both fighters who knocked Roy on his face.
man who beat the man *shakes head* I think they'll be equal on p4p rankings.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
I think Hopkins fought tougher competition and achieved much more than Roy, and he done while fighting stiffer competition. He fought Roy when he was green. If they would've fought in the last 10 years, B-Hop would have beat his a**.
P4P B-Hop should also be higher than Roy. He's never been knocked out, and he beat the crap out of both fighters who knocked Roy on his face.
man who beat the man *shakes head* I think they'll be equal on p4p rankings.
that's an at best...B-HOP cannot be rated over RJJ because of the loss...speculate about the what if's.....the bottome line is still RJJ won and they will be fore ever linked to that fight...I call them even....or 1-1a if you will....
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
I think Hopkins fought tougher competition and achieved much more than Roy, and he done while fighting stiffer competition. He fought Roy when he was green. If they would've fought in the last 10 years, B-Hop would have beat his a**.
P4P B-Hop should also be higher than Roy. He's never been knocked out, and he beat the crap out of both fighters who knocked Roy on his face.
man who beat the man *shakes head* I think they'll be equal on p4p rankings.
man who wouldn't fight the man again, *gives a thumbs up and a crotch grab*.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
I think Hopkins fought tougher competition and achieved much more than Roy, and he done while fighting stiffer competition. He fought Roy when he was green. If they would've fought in the last 10 years, B-Hop would have beat his a**.
P4P B-Hop should also be higher than Roy. He's never been knocked out, and he beat the crap out of both fighters who knocked Roy on his face.
man who beat the man *shakes head* I think they'll be equal on p4p rankings.
that's an at best...B-HOP cannot be rated over RJJ because of the loss...speculate about the what if's.....the bottome line is still RJJ won and they will be fore ever linked to that fight...I call them even....or 1-1a if you will....
And Daniel Santos will forever be better than Margarito? Oscar will forever be better than Julio Cesar Chavez (maybe)?
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Roy was better than B Hopkins in most respects, B Hopkins has better fundimentals, a better chin and probably the best longivity of any fighter out there.. maybe ever... You could argue George Foreman... but he looked like a man in his 40s... Bernard looks like he's only just reached his mid 30s.
30 just gets it for me prime for prime I would say he was better.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
I think it's very difficult to make a clear cut case of either fighter being better than the other so I'd be inclined to say they rank about evenly. Gene Tunney beat Jack Demsey, twice, and no one ranks him higher than Dempsey. On the other hand Hagler was never KO'd but Duran was, AND Duran lost to Hagler, but everyone has Duran ranked higher than Hagler on the all time p4p list. There's just so many variables involved.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
I think Hopkins fought tougher competition and achieved much more than Roy, and he done while fighting stiffer competition. He fought Roy when he was green. If they would've fought in the last 10 years, B-Hop would have beat his a**.
P4P B-Hop should also be higher than Roy. He's never been knocked out, and he beat the crap out of both fighters who knocked Roy on his face.
man who beat the man *shakes head* I think they'll be equal on p4p rankings.
that's an at best...B-HOP cannot be rated over RJJ because of the loss...speculate about the what if's.....the bottome line is still RJJ won and they will be fore ever linked to that fight...I call them even....or 1-1a if you will....
And Daniel Santos will forever be better than Margarito? Oscar will forever be better than Julio Cesar Chavez (maybe)?
as it stands right now YES!...sure he's the champ now but who's to say Santos won't come back and vie for the title...their careers are far from over.....
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckwopat
I think Hopkins fought tougher competition and achieved much more than Roy, and he done while fighting stiffer competition. He fought Roy when he was green. If they would've fought in the last 10 years, B-Hop would have beat his a**.
P4P B-Hop should also be higher than Roy. He's never been knocked out, and he beat the crap out of both fighters who knocked Roy on his face.
man who beat the man *shakes head* I think they'll be equal on p4p rankings.
that's an at best...B-HOP cannot be rated over RJJ because of the loss...speculate about the what if's.....the bottome line is still RJJ won and they will be fore ever linked to that fight...I call them even....or 1-1a if you will....
And Daniel Santos will forever be better than Margarito? Oscar will forever be better than Julio Cesar Chavez (maybe)?
Did Santos go on to dominate 3 divisions north of the one he beat Margarito in ??? And was CHavz past or before his prime?
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Did Santos go on to dominate 3 divisions north of the one he beat Margarito in ??? And was CHavz past or before his prime?
[/quote]good questions to ask Starr.....well how bout it? Tuck?
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigragu
Did Santos go on to dominate 3 divisions north of the one he beat Margarito in ??? And was CHavz past or before his prime?
good questions to ask Starr.....well how bout it? Tuck?
[/quote]
Now its just knit picking.
Roy Jones won titles in four weight classes, but he only dominated one, the lightheavy division. Jones was flexible in jumping weight. He should be credited for that, but I personally think dominating a single weight class for a long period of time is harder. If you jump around in weight, you can sort of pick your opponents, like John Ruiz, but if you stay at the same weight you face just about everybody that's trying to take your spot.
And the Chavez comment...he wasn't in his prime. Neither was Hopkins. It doesn't matter if it was before or after. Hell, that's a good point for Hopkins. He's well past his prime and still kicking ass.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his a** anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
Disagree with virtually everything you tried to say. If one of your reasonings for Roy ranking higher than Hopkins is because he won when they fought, than I guess Clinton Mitchell must also rank higher than Bernard, considering he beat him too. The fact is Bernard was not the fighter he would become later and everyone knows that. It's also laughable to say Roy beat better competition, let alone FAR better competition ;D ;D. You do realize that Roy had his top p4p spot snatched by nearly half of boxing writers before he even lost because his opponents were jokes right? That's when some guys started putting Mosley or Trinidad #1, pretty embarrassing when you think about it. Even intellegent Jones fans acknowledge that Hopkins would have given Roy problems no matter when they fought. It's clear you see things through Roy rose colored glasses though. I agree with everyone else that they rank evenly.
bernard hopkins - "i stayed at middleweight because the risk was lower and i could capitalize and go for the records of hagler and monzon"
Do you really think had roy stayed at middle weight we'd even be talking about him (benard) on this level? He should almost credit his claim to fame, the middleweight record to RJJ...even emauel steward said that bernard breaking that record wasn't that impressive...
And i'm tired of this "green" crap...their records where virtually identical when they fought....
everyone is making all this noise because bhop when up to middleweight and won they lightheavy belt...
so what division did roy start in?
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
i'm....as a middleweight went up to lightheavy.....
didn't roy do that already?
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his a** anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
Disagree with virtually everything you tried to say. If one of your reasonings for Roy ranking higher than Hopkins is because he won when they fought, than I guess Clinton Mitchell must also rank higher than Bernard, considering he beat him too. The fact is Bernard was not the fighter he would become later and everyone knows that. It's also laughable to say Roy beat better competition, let alone FAR better competition ;D ;D. You do realize that Roy had his top p4p spot snatched by nearly half of boxing writers before he even lost because his opponents were jokes right? That's when some guys started putting Mosley or Trinidad #1, pretty embarrassing when you think about it. Even intellegent Jones fans acknowledge that Hopkins would have given Roy problems no matter when they fought. It's clear you see things through Roy rose colored glasses though. I agree with everyone else that they rank evenly.
bernard hopkins - "i stayed at middleweight because the risk was lower and i could capitalize and go for the records of hagler and monzon"
Do you really think had roy stayed at middle weight we'd even be talking about him (benard) on this level? He should almost credit his claim to fame, the middleweight record to RJJ...even emauel steward said that bernard breaking that record wasn't that impressive...
And i'm tired of this "green" crap...their records where virtually identical when they fought....
everyone is making all this noise because bhop when up to middleweight and won they lightheavy belt...
so what division did roy start in?
You keep on using 'ifs' in your argument. If they fought again, if Bernard moved up 5 years ago. 'Ifs' mean absolutely nothing. The only things that mattered is what happened, ranking greatness seldom has to do with who's better, it's simply who was greater throughout their career. You make good arguments on Roy's behalf but the fact remains Hopkins' arguments are just as legitamate. It's alright for you to give Roy credit for beating Hopkins but it's not ok to say he cracked 2 out of 3 times to Tarver? Because Roy wasn't in his prime when Tarver beat him? Well neither was Hopkins when Roy beat him. You can't have it both ways. By your reasoning, both Tarver and Glen Johnson should outrank Jones.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his a** anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
Disagree with virtually everything you tried to say. If one of your reasonings for Roy ranking higher than Hopkins is because he won when they fought, than I guess Clinton Mitchell must also rank higher than Bernard, considering he beat him too. The fact is Bernard was not the fighter he would become later and everyone knows that. It's also laughable to say Roy beat better competition, let alone FAR better competition ;D ;D. You do realize that Roy had his top p4p spot snatched by nearly half of boxing writers before he even lost because his opponents were jokes right? That's when some guys started putting Mosley or Trinidad #1, pretty embarrassing when you think about it. Even intellegent Jones fans acknowledge that Hopkins would have given Roy problems no matter when they fought. It's clear you see things through Roy rose colored glasses though. I agree with everyone else that they rank evenly.
bernard hopkins - "i stayed at middleweight because the risk was lower and i could capitalize and go for the records of hagler and monzon"
Do you really think had roy stayed at middle weight we'd even be talking about him (benard) on this level? He should almost credit his claim to fame, the middleweight record to RJJ...even emauel steward said that bernard breaking that record wasn't that impressive...
And i'm tired of this "green" crap...their records where virtually identical when they fought....
everyone is making all this noise because bhop when up to middleweight and won they lightheavy belt...
so what division did roy start in?
I'd go along with the theory that Hopkins and Jones should be on a level when it comes to their standing in the history of boxing, but when Jones fought Hopkins he was at the top of his game. Arguments can be made for Hopkins e.g. 'He wasn't as great then as he was to become' etc etc, but IMO the fact of the matter is that Roy Jones then would beat any version of Bernard Hopkins.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
this reminds me of MAB and Morales
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smashcrusher
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his a** anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
Disagree with virtually everything you tried to say. If one of your reasonings for Roy ranking higher than Hopkins is because he won when they fought, than I guess Clinton Mitchell must also rank higher than Bernard, considering he beat him too. The fact is Bernard was not the fighter he would become later and everyone knows that. It's also laughable to say Roy beat better competition, let alone FAR better competition ;D ;D. You do realize that Roy had his top p4p spot snatched by nearly half of boxing writers before he even lost because his opponents were jokes right? That's when some guys started putting Mosley or Trinidad #1, pretty embarrassing when you think about it. Even intellegent Jones fans acknowledge that Hopkins would have given Roy problems no matter when they fought. It's clear you see things through Roy rose colored glasses though. I agree with everyone else that they rank evenly.
bernard hopkins - "i stayed at middleweight because the risk was lower and i could capitalize and go for the records of hagler and monzon"
Do you really think had roy stayed at middle weight we'd even be talking about him (benard) on this level? He should almost credit his claim to fame, the middleweight record to RJJ...even emauel steward said that bernard breaking that record wasn't that impressive...
And i'm tired of this "green" crap...their records where virtually identical when they fought....
everyone is making all this noise because bhop when up to middleweight and won they lightheavy belt...
so what division did roy start in?
You keep on using 'ifs' in your argument. If they fought again, if Bernard moved up 5 years ago. 'Ifs' mean absolutely nothing. The only things that mattered is what happened, ranking greatness seldom has to do with who's better, it's simply who was greater throughout their career. You make good arguments on Roy's behalf but the fact remains Hopkins' arguments are just as legitamate. It's alright for you to give Roy credit for beating Hopkins but it's not ok to say he cracked 2 out of 3 times to Tarver? Because Roy wasn't in his prime when Tarver beat him? Well neither was Hopkins when Roy beat him. You can't have it both ways. By your reasoning, both Tarver and Glen Johnson should outrank Jones.
i don't put jones ahead of bhop just because he beat him...that's just the first point...and a very clear non-specualtive one at that...all the rest are speculations...
you don't think hopkins was ready for roy...well the IBF thought otherwise that's why they fought for the title....and just because bhop is better as an old man doesn't mean that he's better than roy.....trust me i think bhop is great i just don't get all excited because he moved up and beat a one hit wonder in tarver..yeah it was impressive, very, but the fact is tarver was never on bhop's level anyway....
doesn't matter that roy was ko'ed... you know as well as every one else that roy had one foot out of the door....and bernard was beaten twice by taylor so throw that in there too....
roy was undefeated for 15 years...and was 36 when he lost legitimately...bernard middle weight defenses consists of rematches with fighter he had already KO'ed..this was a very clever method of padding the record..none of these did anything in their careers but lose to bernard....except glen johnson...
And what are these "ifs" your referring to?
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by smashcrusher
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roy is higher than Bernard because when they fought roy beat him..and they both were just has cautious in that fight....Roy has beat far better competition, was 49-1 (dq) 36 years old before he lost...and the reason hopkins was able to not be discouraged after his two losses where because he didn't get ktfo....
here we go again...a fighter does something and now everyone wants over hype the accomplishment...yeah bhop destroyed tarver...which is exactly what bernard and calzaghe said a prime roy would have done to tarver...
point is..tarver wasn't all that to begin with, and most wanted bhop to beat him because he was a loud mouth, lucky crackhead that caught roy...
and bernard moving up to LHW...isn't all that because by his own admission he could have done it 5 years ago, but chose to stay at MW because the risks were lower and he knew he could capitalize on the division being weak and break the title defence record....
so bhop is great..but a prime roy kicks his a** anyday of the week and twice on sunday..regardless of what version bhop it is he loses to a prime roy everytime...
Disagree with virtually everything you tried to say. If one of your reasonings for Roy ranking higher than Hopkins is because he won when they fought, than I guess Clinton Mitchell must also rank higher than Bernard, considering he beat him too. The fact is Bernard was not the fighter he would become later and everyone knows that. It's also laughable to say Roy beat better competition, let alone FAR better competition ;D ;D. You do realize that Roy had his top p4p spot snatched by nearly half of boxing writers before he even lost because his opponents were jokes right? That's when some guys started putting Mosley or Trinidad #1, pretty embarrassing when you think about it. Even intellegent Jones fans acknowledge that Hopkins would have given Roy problems no matter when they fought. It's clear you see things through Roy rose colored glasses though. I agree with everyone else that they rank evenly.
bernard hopkins - "i stayed at middleweight because the risk was lower and i could capitalize and go for the records of hagler and monzon"
Do you really think had roy stayed at middle weight we'd even be talking about him (benard) on this level? He should almost credit his claim to fame, the middleweight record to RJJ...even emauel steward said that bernard breaking that record wasn't that impressive...
And i'm tired of this "green" crap...their records where virtually identical when they fought....
everyone is making all this noise because bhop when up to middleweight and won they lightheavy belt...
so what division did roy start in?
You keep on using 'ifs' in your argument. If they fought again, if Bernard moved up 5 years ago. 'Ifs' mean absolutely nothing. The only things that mattered is what happened, ranking greatness seldom has to do with who's better, it's simply who was greater throughout their career. You make good arguments on Roy's behalf but the fact remains Hopkins' arguments are just as legitamate. It's alright for you to give Roy credit for beating Hopkins but it's not ok to say he cracked 2 out of 3 times to Tarver? Because Roy wasn't in his prime when Tarver beat him? Well neither was Hopkins when Roy beat him. You can't have it both ways. By your reasoning, both Tarver and Glen Johnson should outrank Jones.
i don't put jones ahead of bhop just because he beat him...that's just the first point...and a very clear non-specualtive one at that...all the rest are speculations...
you don't think hopkins was ready for roy...well the IBF thought otherwise that's why they fought for the title....and just because bhop is better as an old man doesn't mean that he's better than roy.....trust me i think bhop is great i just don't get all excited because he moved up and beat a one hit wonder in tarver..yeah it was impressive, very, but the fact is tarver was never on bhop's level anyway....
doesn't matter that roy was ko'ed... you know as well as every one else that roy had one foot out of the door....and bernard was beaten twice by taylor so throw that in there too....
roy was undefeated for 15 years...and was 36 when he lost legitimately...bernard middle weight defenses consists of rematches with fighter he had already KO'ed..this was a very clever method of padding the record..none of these did anything in their careers but lose to bernard....except glen johnson...
And what are these "ifs" your referring to?
Doesn't matter that Roy was KOd? Um, actually, it does kind of matter, and in a huge way. You'd have a much better argument if Roy was KOd in his first fight with Tarver, but he wasn't, he won it fair and square by pulling out the late rounds. He got KTFO in the rematch, so again, if Tarver get's no credit for that, Roy gets no credit for beating Hopkins, can't have it both ways. And Bernard losing to Taylor in the fashion he did isn't nearly as bad as the fashion in which Jones lost. And it's even more hysterical that you choose to use the word 'padding' in regards to Hopkins record. Can you name one middleweight the man didn't face? Because I can name handfuls of guys in each division Roy was in that he never faced. If anyone of these two guys padded their records, sorry to say Roy is far more guilty of that than Bernard.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the shit out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the S*** out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
Slow down there Burt Sugar, Toney had to kill himself to make 168 for that fight, just like Jones had to kill himself to make 175 for Tarver. It wasn't the great Roy we all know that Tarver beat, and it wasn't the great Toney we all know that Roy beat. And on top of that, Hopkins wasn't favored over either Trinidad or Tarver.
p.s.--Toney was never p4p king. Last I checked Pernell Whitaker held that distinction at that time.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the S*** out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
Slow down there Burt Sugar, Toney had to kill himself to make 168 for that fight, just like Jones had to kill himself to make 175 for Tarver. It wasn't the great Roy we all know that Tarver beat, and it wasn't the great Toney we all know that Roy beat. And on top of that, Hopkins wasn't favored over either Trinidad or Tarver.
p.s.--Toney was never p4p king. Last I checked Pernell Whitaker held that distinction at that time.
doesn't matter if hop was favored..he was the bigger man...so why did it surprise anyone that the bigger man knocked out the smaller men?.....that just says that even the odds makers bought into the superstar hype and not common sense.....even if toney was number two..he's still better than anyone bhop ever faced..... ;)
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the S*** out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
Slow down there Burt Sugar, Toney had to kill himself to make 168 for that fight, just like Jones had to kill himself to make 175 for Tarver. It wasn't the great Roy we all know that Tarver beat, and it wasn't the great Toney we all know that Roy beat. And on top of that, Hopkins wasn't favored over either Trinidad or Tarver.
p.s.--Toney was never p4p king. Last I checked Pernell Whitaker held that distinction at that time.
doesn't matter if hop was favored..he was the bigger man...so why did it surprise anyone that the bigger man knocked out the smaller men?.....that just says that even the odds makers bought into the superstar hype and not common sense.....even if toney was number two..he's still better than anyone bhop ever faced..... ;)
Did the bigger man beat the smaller man last night? Do you realize in every one of your posts you shoot yourself in the foot with a stupid contradiction? Hopkins victory last night over Tarver is better than any single victory Roy Jones ever had. Bernard skipped a division to face the undisputed light heavyweight champ, and kicked his @ss. Roy skipped a division to face the biggest hand picked joke of a heavyweight champ in history. And by the way, Hopkins' winning of the lightheavyweight title is far better than Roy's, considering Bernard didn't spend 3 years getting ready at 168. He went strait from 160 to 175 in, what, 6 months.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Did the bigger man beat the smaller man last night? Do you realize in every one of your posts you shoot yourself in the foot with a stupid contradiction? Hopkins victory last night over Tarver is better than any single victory Roy Jones ever had. Bernard skipped a division to face the undisputed light heavyweight champ, and kicked his @ss. Roy skipped a division to face the biggest hand picked joke of a heavyweight champ in history. And by the way, Hopkins' winning of the lightheavyweight title is far better than Roy's, considering Bernard didn't spend 3 years getting ready at 168. He went strait from 160 to 175 in, what, 6 months.
WRONG!!! WRONG!!! WRONG!!!
I see Montell Griffin as a MUCH MUCH MUCH harder style then that of Antonio Tarvers. And yous aying that Hopkins victory last night wipes out every victory Roy Jones ever had. Roy was a bigger underdog against James Toney then Hopkins was against Antonio Tarver.
Its fine, credit Hopkins for the win, but don't make a bold statement like that. Hopkins win last night DOES NOT shine over every victory Roy Jones has had, just drop it. You ahd the argument until you said that.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the S*** out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
Slow down there Burt Sugar, Toney had to kill himself to make 168 for that fight, just like Jones had to kill himself to make 175 for Tarver. It wasn't the great Roy we all know that Tarver beat, and it wasn't the great Toney we all know that Roy beat. And on top of that, Hopkins wasn't favored over either Trinidad or Tarver.
p.s.--Toney was never p4p king. Last I checked Pernell Whitaker held that distinction at that time.
doesn't matter if hop was favored..he was the bigger man...so why did it surprise anyone that the bigger man knocked out the smaller men?.....that just says that even the odds makers bought into the superstar hype and not common sense.....even if toney was number two..he's still better than anyone bhop ever faced..... ;)
Did the bigger man beat the smaller man last night? Do you realize in every one of your posts you shoot yourself in the foot with a stupid contradiction? Hopkins victory last night over Tarver is better than any single victory Roy Jones ever had. Bernard skipped a division to face the undisputed light heavyweight champ, and kicked his @ss. Roy skipped a division to face the biggest hand picked joke of a heavyweight champ in history. And by the way, Hopkins' winning of the lightheavyweight title is far better than Roy's, considering Bernard didn't spend 3 years getting ready at 168. He went strait from 160 to 175 in, what, 6 months.
I guess that's why evander holyfield had such a hard time with john ruiz because he was still laughing....
And I nver said the big man was supposed to win..i said why did it surpirse everyone? so next time read it completely...and bernard himself said he could have gone up to lhw five years ago, but decided to stay at 160 because the risks were lower and he could capitalize on the weak fighters in the division and get to the record...you know what it doesn't matter what any of us think..when we all die and the other generations look at the books..it will read Jones vs Hopkins..jones wins by UD.....and if anyone happen to have the fight footage they willl see that it doesn't matter what you think or i think as far as who fought tougher opponents...
history will read ....Roy Jones defeated Bernard Hopkins by UD to win the IBF middleweight championship..period...all this other speculative, opinionated crap is just that... ;D
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Excuse me starrmanlady, but aren't you the one who said Mayweather would lose to Sharmba Mitchell? And that Mayweather would lose to Zab Judah? And that Oscar would lose to Mayorga? Exactly what is it on this Earth that makes you think your opinion means jack sh!t to me ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. Go on and watch Kagney and Lacy or a WNBA game or whatever it is you all like to watch, butch ;D ;D ;D ;D :lickish: :lickish: :lickish:
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
And the Chavez comment...he wasn't in his prime. Neither was Hopkins. It doesn't matter if it was before or after. Hell, that's a good point for Hopkins. He's well past his prime and still kicking a**.
[/quote]oh..ok...I see what you mean...to be able to lock down a division for over a decade does deserve its mega props....you're right in the fact that if you time your movements at the right time you can catch a division/chamion at a down time...but to stay at 1 weight you face EVERYBODY in that division...so in that look...I would concede that B-HOP is the better p4p out of those 2....GO B-HOP!!!!! HOF Bound!!!!!
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
ok lets look at the facts, roy was beaten twice by tarver, he was ko'd in the second andthe rubber match was a joke, roy ran away the whole fight, i just watched it today, he landed less then 10 punchs in a hand full of rounds he was scared and i feel he has damaged his legacy, a true champ doesn't run away
hopkins at 41 took the fight to tarver and easyly won the fight, b-hop number bar non
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the S*** out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
Slow down there Burt Sugar, Toney had to kill himself to make 168 for that fight, just like Jones had to kill himself to make 175 for Tarver. It wasn't the great Roy we all know that Tarver beat, and it wasn't the great Toney we all know that Roy beat. And on top of that, Hopkins wasn't favored over either Trinidad or Tarver.
p.s.--Toney was never p4p king. Last I checked Pernell Whitaker held that distinction at that time.
doesn't matter if hop was favored..he was the bigger man...so why did it surprise anyone that the bigger man knocked out the smaller men?.....that just says that even the odds makers bought into the superstar hype and not common sense.....even if toney was number two..he's still better than anyone bhop ever faced..... ;)
Did the bigger man beat the smaller man last night? Do you realize in every one of your posts you shoot yourself in the foot with a stupid contradiction? Hopkins victory last night over Tarver is better than any single victory Roy Jones ever had. Bernard skipped a division to face the undisputed light heavyweight champ, and kicked his @ss. Roy skipped a division to face the biggest hand picked joke of a heavyweight champ in history. And by the way, Hopkins' winning of the lightheavyweight title is far better than Roy's, considering Bernard didn't spend 3 years getting ready at 168. He went strait from 160 to 175 in, what, 6 months.
I guess that's why evander holyfield had such a hard time with john ruiz because he was still laughing....
And I nver said the big man was supposed to win..i said why did it surpirse everyone? so next time read it completely...and bernard himself said he could have gone up to lhw five years ago, but decided to stay at 160 because the risks were lower and he could capitalize on the weak fighters in the division and get to the record...you know what it doesn't matter what any of us think..when we all die and the other generations look at the books..it will read Jones vs Hopkins..jones wins by UD.....and if anyone happen to have the fight footage they willl see that it doesn't matter what you think or i think as far as who fought tougher opponents...
history will read ....Roy Jones defeated Bernard Hopkins by UD to win the IBF middleweight championship..period...all this other speculative, opinionated crap is just that... ;D
JonesMayweatherjr., I can honestly say that I am surprised that Hopkins won last night, and I think most people would agree. You even said in one of your posts you picked Tarver to win, as did I. It is surprising because Hopkins lost his last 2 fights to a guy who weighs 160, and before the fight with Tarver he didn't seem to have virtually any advantages. It's easy to sit here today and say why is everyone surprised, but I was surprised not only that he won, but how easily he won.
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Excuse me starrmanlady, but aren't you the one who said Mayweather would lose to Sharmba Mitchell? And that Mayweather would lose to Zab Judah? And that Oscar would lose to Mayorga? Exactly what is it on this Earth that makes you think your opinion means jack sh!t to me ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. Go on and watch Kagney and Lacy or a WNBA game or whatever it is you all like to watch, butch ;D ;D ;D ;D :lickish: :lickish: :lickish:
Yes but your statement is worse then everything else. And just because I've got a few predictions wrong doesn't change the fact that when it comes to that statement you made... it makes all those predictions look genius ;)
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear bull
ok lets look at the facts, roy was beaten twice by tarver, he was ko'd in the second andthe rubber match was a joke, roy ran away the whole fight, i just watched it today, he landed less then 10 punchs in a hand full of rounds he was scared and i feel he has damaged his legacy, a true champ doesn't run away
hopkins at 41 took the fight to tarver and easyly won the fight, b-hop number bar non
Thats the man who beat the man and it doesn't work that way. Or else Mayorga would forever be ranked over Mosley ;)
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Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImRipped
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the S*** out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
Slow down there Burt Sugar, Toney had to kill himself to make 168 for that fight, just like Jones had to kill himself to make 175 for Tarver. It wasn't the great Roy we all know that Tarver beat, and it wasn't the great Toney we all know that Roy beat. And on top of that, Hopkins wasn't favored over either Trinidad or Tarver.
p.s.--Toney was never p4p king. Last I checked Pernell Whitaker held that distinction at that time.
doesn't matter if hop was favored..he was the bigger man...so why did it surprise anyone that the bigger man knocked out the smaller men?.....that just says that even the odds makers bought into the superstar hype and not common sense.....even if toney was number two..he's still better than anyone bhop ever faced..... ;)
Did the bigger man beat the smaller man last night? Do you realize in every one of your posts you shoot yourself in the foot with a stupid contradiction? Hopkins victory last night over Tarver is better than any single victory Roy Jones ever had. Bernard skipped a division to face the undisputed light heavyweight champ, and kicked his @ss. Roy skipped a division to face the biggest hand picked joke of a heavyweight champ in history. And by the way, Hopkins' winning of the lightheavyweight title is far better than Roy's, considering Bernard didn't spend 3 years getting ready at 168. He went strait from 160 to 175 in, what, 6 months.
I guess that's why evander holyfield had such a hard time with john ruiz because he was still laughing....
And I nver said the big man was supposed to win..i said why did it surpirse everyone? so next time read it completely...and bernard himself said he could have gone up to lhw five years ago, but decided to stay at 160 because the risks were lower and he could capitalize on the weak fighters in the division and get to the record...you know what it doesn't matter what any of us think..when we all die and the other generations look at the books..it will read Jones vs Hopkins..jones wins by UD.....and if anyone happen to have the fight footage they willl see that it doesn't matter what you think or i think as far as who fought tougher opponents...
history will read ....Roy Jones defeated Bernard Hopkins by UD to win the IBF middleweight championship..period...all this other speculative, opinionated crap is just that... ;D
History will also say that this was Roy Jones at the end of one of his fights:
http://www.whudat.com/news/images/royjones_ko1.jpg
