Where do you place Lewis in the All Time Greats lists??

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16.06.06 - By Zachary Q. Daniels: Rating fighters historically can be a tricky business, filled as it is with determinations that inherently are subjective; that is, based upon the value assigned to various factors by individual observers. Because of this, controversy often results, as what one person considers critically important may be minimized or disregarded by another. One of the most notable cases of this phenomenon in recent years is the debate over the historical status of the last unified heavyweight champion, Lennox Lewis.

That Lewis belongs among the upper tier of heavyweight champions is not at all controversial. Virtually every one agrees that he belongs among the top 15-20 heavyweight fighters since the initiation of the gloved era in the late 19th century. The debate arises over where. Some contend that he is clearly in the top ten, and even among the top five of all time. They emphasize the longevity of his reign, the number of his defenses, the dominance he showed over some of the fighters he faced, and the fact that he beat every man he ever faced at least once. Some also point to his retiring as champion as an argument for the high status they assign him. Others dispute this, suggesting that Lewis belongs somewhere between numbers 11-15, or even in the 16-20 range.

Regardless of where he is rated, there is no questioning that Lewis did have one of the more lengthy reigns in heavyweight history, and had more defenses than many of the top tier champions. As with many subjects in boxing, however, there is some controversy among observers about the exact length of his reign, and therefore the number of defenses. If one counts his reign as champion as beginning with his capture of the linear title from Shannon Briggs in 1998, it was approximately 5 years, including the seven month interruption by Hasim Rahman in 2001. This would result in his having nine defenses of the title, including the unsuccessful defense against Rahman, and the controversial draw against Evander Holyfield in 1999.

Some, however, suggest that he only truly became the acknowledged champion when he unified the title against Evander Holyfield in late 1999. This would result in a reign of approximately 3 years, and 6 defenses, one unsuccessful. Very few argue that Lewis' holding of the WBC title in 1992-94 and 1997-98 should count in such calculations, but were this to be included it adds 3 years and 5 defenses to the above totals.

Even if one looks at only his holding of the undisputed title from 1999 forward and his defenses of it from this point, Lewis still has a reasonably impressive title reign, defending against a group of quality fighters such as Michael Grant, David Tua, Mike Tyson and Vitali Klitschko. Critics of Lewis would certainly point out the flaws of some of these fighters, such as Grant's chin, Tua's over-reliance on his power, or Tyson's age - but those who trumpet Lewis's status often counter with the argument that these were the best available challengers at the time.

If one looks at Lewis's defenses of the linear title, then Lewis's fights against Zejlko Mavrovic and his two fights against Holyfield have to be taken into consideration. Whatever one thinks of the unheralded Mavrovic's worthiness as title opponent, the fight is not generally considered to be among Lewis's best performances. The draw against Holyfield is considered to be one of the worst decisions of all time, and although critics point to Holyfield age and ring-wear, at the time he held two of the three major titles. The second fight was closer, and while some observers called the fight for "The Real Deal," the majority - and the judges - feel that Lewis won a clear, if close, decision.

While Lewis's holding of the WBC title is not considered by most to constitute a "legitimate" title reign in the sense of his being "the" recognized champion, the fact is that - as a result of this, from 1992 forward - Lewis faced almost exclusively the top available fighters from this time forward until his last fight in 2003. His opposition in this period included such notable fighters as Razor Ruddock, whom, in perhaps his most impressive performance, he demolished in two rounds; former titlists Tony Tucker and Frank Bruno, who if past their best were still considered among the better fighters around; the hard-punching, if glass-jawed Tommy Morrison; and dangerous, if flawed, contender Ray Mercer, albeit somewhat controversially. None of these men will make any "all-time" lists, but they were certainly legitimate opponents in an era that has come to be considered among the better in heavyweight history.

All of this certainly establishes that Lewis is among the "A list" heavyweight champions, and certainly, in the view of this observer, make him a clear top 15 all time heavyweight. But is he truly among the five or ten greatest of all time, as some suggest??? Those who argue otherwise point to several important aspects of Lewis's career that the above account does not address. Perhaps most notable are his two early rounds KO losses, to Oliver McCall in 1994, and Hasim Rahman in 2001. While these are Lewis only losses, they also give him the dubious distinction of being the only top level heavyweight champion who was stopped in the early rounds while he held a version of the title - something that critics consider to be a serious disqualification for top ten consideration. These critics suggest that these losses show that Lewis did not have a particularly strong chin, or the "heart" to rise from the canvas and go on to win a fight - while supporters argue that these were hard punches that would have knocked anyone out.

Those who argue for his elevation to this level also assert that the McCall stoppage was premature, and that his preparation for the Rahman fight inadequate. Critics suggest that the stoppage in the McCall fight was appropriate and that whatever his degree of preparedness for the Rahman fight, he was taken out in a few rounds by a fighter who is hardly among the better fighters in heavyweight history.

Another argument made to argue that these losses should not have substantial impact on Lewis's historical rating is that he "avenged" both losses in rematches. This argument has more force with regard to the Rahman victory, which was an impressive one-punch knockout delivered in devastating fashion, but has less force with regard to the McCall fight - where a drug-addled McCall, who probably should not have been allowed to fight in his mental condition, essentially quit in the 5th round.

Another argument that critics make regarding deficiencies in Lewis's record that should result in his being rated just outside the top ten is his failure to face the other three top fighters of his era - Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, and Riddick Bowe - when they were in the heart of their careers. While Lewis faced Bowe in the amateurs, for a variety of reasons he never met him in the pros. His advocates assert that this was because Bowe avoided him, while critics suggest boxing politics and financial factors were the more likely reasons. Lewis of course faced, and beat, both Holyfield and Tyson, but versions who most argue - particularly in the case of Tyson - were past their sell date, thus reducing the importance of these fights in indicating Lewis's superiority over these fighters at their best. Supporters likewise try to put the blame for these fights not happening on Holyfield and Tyson, while more critical voices argue that this is essentially irrelevant and speculative

What will the "consensus" historical rating of Lewis ultimately be??? Hard to say, but there are historical precedents for his continuing to be rated along the higher degree of the "appropriate range" - and there are arguments for his eventual rating settling down to what some consider a more reasonable ranking, just outside the top ten. Certainly, Larry Holmes provides an example of a heavyweight fighter whose assessment has improved in the years since he has retired, while Jack Dempsey or Sonny Liston perhaps provide examples of champions whose historical status has fallen somewhat.

Certainly the improving reputation of the era in which he fought may eventually justify a top ten placement for Lewis - as will his lengthy tenure as one of the 2 or 3 best fighters of the era, along with Evander Holyfield and Mike Tyson. Some will suggest that his retiring as champion should be considered a plus, although it is questionable how this contributes to the overall significance of his achievements. The eventual status of some of his opponents who have yet to complete their careers may also have an impact in improving Lewis's status as well.

Others contend that the generally acknowledged mediocre state of the heavyweight division immediately after his retirement has resulted in his accomplishments being over-inflated, and that when a new dominant champion emerges - Lewis, as the last "great" linear champion, will be put more in proper perspective and that this will result in a more realistic appraisal of his status and evaluation of both his strengths and weaknesses. Some also suggest that, as with Rocky Marciano, too much is made of his retiring as champion, and that this is basically irrelevant to what he did in the ring. While it may reflect unusual good judgment, they say, it does not demonstrate that he is any "better" a fighter than the many great fighters who have fought on as their abilities declined.

Ultimately, where Lewis is rated historically depends critically - as all such ratings do - on the relative weight assigned to all these various factors, and undoubtedly others. Those who see the KO losses to McCall and Rahman as extremely significant - and consider his victories over Holyfield and Tyson to be of minimal significance as a result of their age and declining skills - will rate Lewis outside of the top ten. Those who minimize these deficiencies, and point to his relatively lengthy reign and number of title defenses in a quality era, will argue for his placement in the top ten. Like most historical debates about sports figures, it is unlikely to ever be completely resolved or agreed upon by all, and in all likelihood no truly "correct" or objective answer to the question of Lewis's - or any other fighter's - historical rating exists.

cc, good article. I'd put Lennox, alltime, at #6, behind Ali, Louis, Marciano, Holmes, and Foreman.

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Originally Posted by Samson3000

cc, good article. I'd put Lennox, alltime, at #6, behind Ali, Louis, Marciano, Holmes, and Foreman.

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thanks kind sir, CC back at ya

lennox is definately top 10....where in the top 10 is where I lose myself. I have a real problem with making lists and being able to justify them to myself :-\

Probably somewhere between 5-11

As a Heavyweight #10:

15: Harry Wills
14: James Corbett
13: Sonny Liston
12: Joe Frazier
11: Mike Tyson
10: Lennox Lewis
9 James Jeffries
8: Jack Dempsey
7: Rocky Marciano
6: Evander Holyfield

In the All time lists #81

88 Mike Tyson
87 Luis Rodriguez
86 Joey Archibald
85 Sot Chitalada
84 Jeff Chandler
83 Joe Walcott (The original)
82 Ken Buchanan
81 Lennox Lewis
80 Flash Elorde
79 Jim Jefferies
78 Lupe Pintor
77 Floyd Mayweather Jr
76 Billy Conn

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Originally Posted by Britkid

As a Heavyweight #10:

15: Harry Wills
14: James Corbett
13: Sonny Liston
12: Joe Frazier
11: Mike Tyson
10: Lennox Lewis
9 James Jeffries
8: Jack Dempsey
7: Rocky Marciano
6: Evander Holyfield

In the All time lists #81

88 Mike Tyson
87 Luis Rodriguez
86 Joey Archibald
85 Sot Chitalada
84 Jeff Chandler
83 Joe Walcott (The original)
82 Ken Buchanan
81 Lennox Lewis
80 Flash Elorde
79 Jim Jefferies
78 Lupe Pintor
77 Floyd Mayweather Jr
76 Billy Conn

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Hahah - love a BK list ;)

I'd probably have him just outside top 10, but on achievement he would have to be top 10

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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Bla bla bla

Don't mention that after 6 rounds Lewis was unmarked and Klitchko needed his face sown back together with about 50 stitches either

but if the judges had Vit 2 points ahead after 6 rounds he must've won ::**

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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LOL;

Ali gets lynched for the Spinks, Holmes and Berbick losses

Tyson suffers humiliation against Williams and McBride

Vitali and Lewis retire at or near the top of their game, and everyone says they should come back... :dontknow:

you guys are the experts not me. Just a thought, shouldn't they have did it again? Why not fight again instead of having people doubt. Lewis doubted himself by not having a rematch. Whether he was winning or losing what about a rematch? Was it not nesseary? Was he conviningly good enough to not have to rematch?

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

you guys are the experts not me. Just a thought, shouldn't they have did it again? Why not fight again instead of having people doubt. Lewis doubted himself by not having a rematch. Whether he was winning or losing what about a rematch? Was it not nesseary? Was he conviningly good enough to not have to rematch?

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Lewis did enough damage inside 6 rounds to stop the fight - so job done!!

Why would Lennox Lewis need to prove anything anyway - think he pretty much did it all anyway!!

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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Lewis was coming off a big lay-off, and his skills had obviously deteriorated somewhat.

You can't judge where he would be in the alltime lists because of his decision to retire, IMO. He was right to retire - he didn't want people to judge him based on the Klitschko fight, and a possible rematch, because it was clear that he was sifting out of his prime.

Plus, no matter the circumstances, he got the W.

Sure, you can say real champions woulda got right back in there and won. To an extent I agree. But Lewis was finished. Lucky for him, he knew that. He got out, and he'll be remembered as a great.

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Originally Posted by The_Mac10

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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Lewis was coming off a big lay-off, and his skills had obviously deteriorated somewhat.

You can't judge where he would be in the alltime lists because of his decision to retire, IMO. He was right to retire - he didn't want people to judge him based on the Klitschko fight, and a possible rematch, because it was clear that he was sifting out of his prime.

Plus, no matter the circumstances, he got the W.

Sure, you can say real champions woulda got right back in there and won. To an extent I agree. But Lewis was finished. Lucky for him, he knew that. He got out, and he'll be remembered as a great.

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Thats right, he banked his money , he's getting old, hang up it up ! "You old, You got the Doe, you Gotsta Go"

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

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Originally Posted by The_Mac10

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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Lewis was coming off a big lay-off, and his skills had obviously deteriorated somewhat.

You can't judge where he would be in the alltime lists because of his decision to retire, IMO. He was right to retire - he didn't want people to judge him based on the Klitschko fight, and a possible rematch, because it was clear that he was sifting out of his prime.

Plus, no matter the circumstances, he got the W.

Sure, you can say real champions woulda got right back in there and won. To an extent I agree. But Lewis was finished. Lucky for him, he knew that. He got out, and he'll be remembered as a great.

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Thats right, he banked his money , he's getting old, hang up it up ! "You old, You got the Doe, you Gotsta Go"

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i was never a lewis fan, but i gotta admire the fact that he got out when he started to slip
A LOT of great champions try to keep going (RJJ) and do nothing but tarnish their legacy
cheers to lennox.................even though i dont care much for him

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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LOL;

Ali gets lynched for the Spinks, Holmes and Berbick losses

Tyson suffers humiliation against Williams and McBride

Vitali and Lewis retire at or near the top of their game, and everyone says they should come back... :dontknow:

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cc :D

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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You guys crack me up. Lewis was 38 when he retired. 38! He tore Vitali up and won the 5th and 6h round clearly. It wouldn't have been worth it to train again to face a top contender. We hate it whhen our fighters box past 35 and embarras themselves, yet some like to put asterisks above fighters who didn't return to fight at 39. Please.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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LOL;

Ali gets lynched for the Spinks, Holmes and Berbick losses

Tyson suffers humiliation against Williams and McBride

Vitali and Lewis retire at or near the top of their game, and everyone says they should come back... :dontknow:

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point well made, mr britkid :coolclick:

If I had to bet my LIFE on who would win against whoever for 100 fights im betting Lennox. LL beats everyone in this case. Im talking about prime fighters. Rocky beats LL? :drinker:

Didnt Vitali take the fight on less than two weeks notice? Something like that always puts one of the fighters at a disadvatage. Either Vitali with lack of opportunity to prepare or Lennox because he trained 6+ weeks for a different fight than what he ended up with. I think if they would have fought again Lewis would have won decisively.

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Originally Posted by SecondRoundKO

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

The article doesn't mention the fact he ran from Klitcho and wouldn't give him a rematch and then went on to retire so he wouldn't get another loss

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You guys crack me up. Lewis was 38 when he retired. 38! He tore Vitali up and won the 5th and 6h round clearly. It wouldn't have been worth it to train again to face a top contender. We hate it whhen our fighters box past 35 and embarras themselves, yet some like to put asterisks above fighters who didn't return to fight at 39. Please.

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If you don't think that Vitali was thoroughly whupping Lewis.....then your in denial. That night Lewis was on an express train out of boxing and it wasn't going to be by decision either.

That's why all of the Lewis fans hate Vitali............becasue deep down inside they know that he was beating Lennoz' a$$.

Lewis deserves to be rated above Holyfeild IMO. Holy was maybe the greates cruiser ever but was also quite inconsistent in his so-called prime at heavy.

The Klit fans should check themselves for a minute. Maybe Vlad can put a record that compares with Lewis' together ove the next 8 years or so. Maybe Vitali could have. Fact is up til now they haven't

Vitali was stopped legit by a cut caused by a punch. He won early rounds but was flat out beaten up in the 5th and especially the 6th. That an old, fading Lewis could do that to a genuinely good fighter like Klit is a credit to him.

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Originally Posted by shooter

Lewis deserves to be rated above Holyfeild IMO. Holy was maybe the greates cruiser ever but was also quite inconsistent in his so-called prime at heavy.

The Klit fans should check themselves for a minute. Maybe Vlad can put a record that compares with Lewis' together ove the next 8 years or so. Maybe Vitali could have. Fact is up til now they haven't

Vitali was stopped legit by a cut caused by a punch. He won early rounds but was flat out beaten up in the 5th and especially the 6th. That an old, fading Lewis could do that to a genuinely good fighter like Klit is a credit to him.

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I love the way that Lewis fans always say Lennox was on top of his game during the Tyson fight..........and then only one year later against Vitali he was a fading fighter???

Fact is, Lewis lost the majority of the rounds in that fight and in the fifth and sixth Lewis looked even more exhausted. he hit Vitali with his best shot and Vitali kept coming forward and kept tagging Lewis.

Lewis was outboxed from round 1 til the sixth. There was no magical "comeback round for Lewis" he was on his way out and Foreman and everyone else in the arena who booed Lewis knew it!

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Originally Posted by 1st rd ko

If I had to bet my LIFE on who would win against whoever for 100 fights im betting Lennox. LL beats everyone in this case. Im talking about prime fighters. Rocky beats LL? :drinker:

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Just a question, would LL beat a prime Ridick Bowe?

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by shooter

Lewis deserves to be rated above Holyfeild IMO. Holy was maybe the greates cruiser ever but was also quite inconsistent in his so-called prime at heavy.

The Klit fans should check themselves for a minute. Maybe Vlad can put a record that compares with Lewis' together ove the next 8 years or so. Maybe Vitali could have. Fact is up til now they haven't

Vitali was stopped legit by a cut caused by a punch. He won early rounds but was flat out beaten up in the 5th and especially the 6th. That an old, fading Lewis could do that to a genuinely good fighter like Klit is a credit to him.

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I love the way that Lewis fans always say Lennox was on top of his game during the Tyson fight..........and then only one year later against Vitali he was a fading fighter???

Fact is, Lewis lost the majority of the rounds in that fight and in the fifth and sixth Lewis looked even more exhausted. he hit Vitali with his best shot and Vitali kept coming forward and kept tagging Lewis.

Lewis was outboxed from round 1 til the sixth. There was no magical "comeback round for Lewis" he was on his way out and Foreman and everyone else in the arena who booed Lewis knew it!

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Nice to read some truth. I was beginning to think eveyone on here was an official LL jock strap carrier

If your saying Lewis didn't win the 6th round of that fight you need your eyes checked. Cut back on the testosterone if your all hot and sweaty about the Klit

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Originally Posted by shooter

If your saying Lewis didn't win the 6th round of that fight you need your eyes checked. Cut back on the testosterone if your all hot and sweaty about the Klit

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If you're saying that Vitali didn't dominate Lewis in that fight then you need to take Lewis c__out of your mouth and come up for air.

Your boy was on his way out that night.....he didn't phase Vitali with his punches...and he was way more tired than Vitali....it's a fact and everyone knows it.

Vitali was a good fighter: the best out there for a while after Lewis retired. You need a dose of reality though. Your hunk of Euro beefcake got stopped on a cut from a punch. Vitali staggered back to his corner at the end of 6 after almost being decapitated by Lewis' uppercuts. Klit didn't fight again for how long afterwards because of the severity of the cut?

Most guys fantasize about sisters. What is it about the Klitschko brothers that has turned so many men this way? There's church-based support groups that can cure this sort of thing apparently. The first thing you have to do is admit you've got a problem and let the Lord heal you

i don't think it was his age per se that had Lennox looking gassed against Vitali. He was pudgy and looked like he hadn't prepared properly for the fight, same as against Williams in Africa.

Likewise, I don't think it is a question of heart that kept him from getting up off the canvas and fighting on against Wms - he was KOd proper.

There is question of his heart in terms of does he really want to get himself prime and sharp for fights. When he rematched Williams the answer was yes. First time around, no. Against Vitali, again, it seemed like no - regardless of the fact that he was beginning to show signs of dominating before the fight was stopped.

I tend to agree that in an artificial world if Lennox fought every other HW great 100 times, and always came prime, probably no one of them would win as many out of that 100 fights as Lewis. As long as he could manage to keep Tyson at bay for the first 4 rounds, that is.

I wish he had returned to fight Vitali again but think he really didn't have the drive to train mentally and physically. Perhaps age has something to do with that but I don't think it was the main factor. He didn't seem particularly worn or aged by the sport. Just not hungry enough to make the requisite effort.

And I don't consider his win over Tyson as anything meaningful at all. In a poetic way perhaps, the gap was filled, the fight was fought ... but it came way late for Tyson to be a measure of anything.

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Originally Posted by shooter

Vitali was a good fighter: the best out there for a while after Lewis retired. You need a dose of reality though. Your hunk of Euro beefcake got stopped on a cut from a punch. Vitali staggered back to his corner at the end of 6 after almost being decapitated by Lewis' uppercuts. Klit didn't fight again for how long afterwards because of the severity of the cut?

Most guys fantasize about sisters. What is it about the Klitschko brothers that has turned so many men this way? There's church-based support groups that can cure this sort of thing apparently. The first thing you have to do is admit you've got a problem and let the Lord heal you

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Sure pal.......just take your meds and go to sleep K?

I can't do this anymore. RIDICULOUS. I have the fight on tape.......I have seen it over 20 times and not once......not one time did Vitali stagger.
If you're going to have to resort to lying then there is really nothing left I can do here.

:banghead:

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by shooter

If your saying Lewis didn't win the 6th round of that fight you need your eyes checked. Cut back on the testosterone if your all hot and sweaty about the Klit

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If you're saying that Vitali didn't dominate Lewis in that fight then you need to take Lewis c__out of your mouth and come up for air.

Your boy was on his way out that night.....he didn't phase Vitali with his punches...and he was way more tired than Vitali....it's a fact and everyone knows it.

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vitali won early rounds, but lewis was definitely beginning to tough it out through the 5th and more so through the 6th...the fight could have gone either way without the stoppage, but IMO lewis was beginning to overcome vitali...

regardless, vitali could not continue....

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by shooter

If your saying Lewis didn't win the 6th round of that fight you need your eyes checked. Cut back on the testosterone if your all hot and sweaty about the Klit

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If you're saying that Vitali didn't dominate Lewis in that fight then you need to take Lewis c__out of your mouth and come up for air.

Your boy was on his way out that night.....he didn't phase Vitali with his punches...and he was way more tired than Vitali....it's a fact and everyone knows it.

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vitali won early rounds, but lewis was definitely beginning to tough it out through the 5th and more so through the 6th...the fight could have gone either way without the stoppage, but IMO lewis was beginning to overcome vitali...

regardless, vitali could not continue....

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Everyone there knew that Lewis had little to nothing in the tank. He was going down. If I was a Lewis fan I would keep a picture of Vitali's cut above my bed every night because thats what saved Lewis.

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by shooter

If your saying Lewis didn't win the 6th round of that fight you need your eyes checked. Cut back on the testosterone if your all hot and sweaty about the Klit

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If you're saying that Vitali didn't dominate Lewis in that fight then you need to take Lewis c__out of your mouth and come up for air.

Your boy was on his way out that night.....he didn't phase Vitali with his punches...and he was way more tired than Vitali....it's a fact and everyone knows it.

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vitali won early rounds, but lewis was definitely beginning to tough it out through the 5th and more so through the 6th...the fight could have gone either way without the stoppage, but IMO lewis was beginning to overcome vitali...

regardless, vitali could not continue....

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Everyone there knew that Lewis had little to nothing in the tank. He was going down. If I was a Lewis fan I would keep a picture of Vitali's cut above my bed every night because thats what saved Lewis.

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Ive watched the fight repeadedly myself, but we have no idea if Lewis was to go down in the ensuing rounds. All I know is that Lewis did look to be more the aggressor by the end of the 6th and to be honest....who knows what Vitali had in the tank as well??

The nature of the result is bound to spark debate due to the lack of any real satisfying conclusion....but to say any more is really just to guess...

Anyways, Im outta here....got class to teach...will get back on the debate later ;)

hmm I guess everyone thinks Lewis was winning, not running out of steam and shouldn't have given a rematch and retirement was due without any questions of a rematch. hmmmm I guess I'm at the wrong place

1. Joe Louis(25 successful title defenses) 2. Rocky Marciano( Fought the best in his era and retired undefeated) 3. Lennox Lewis( Fought in the best heavyweight era and holds a win over every opponent he step in the ring with) 4.Jack Johnson (overcame racism and destroyed the best in his era) 5. Muhammad Ali ( Dodged draft, a complaining racist and had sex out of wedlock and won a few fights in a overrated era)

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Originally Posted by mafiajoey

you guys are the experts not me. Just a thought, shouldn't they have did it again? Why not fight again instead of having people doubt. Lewis doubted himself by not having a rematch. Whether he was winning or losing what about a rematch? Was it not nesseary? Was he conviningly good enough to not have to rematch?

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I don't think Lewis needed to prove anything to anyone, and he got out of boxing at exactly the right time IMO. He achieved in boxing what he had set out to achieve and eventually retired gracefully. OK the win over Klitschko was by no means easy but it was still a W on his record. I don't think Lewis ever doubted himself as a boxer, but i do think he realised he was coming to the end of his time, therefore, he made the correct decision by retiring rather than continuing and possibly being beat by fighters who wouldn't have stood a chance against him at his best (like many other great champions throughout boxing history!).
Instead of questioning Lewis's decision to retire, we should praise his decision IMO.
That said, who knows what would've happened if a rematch did go ahead with Klitschko? I personally believe that Lewis would've got himself in better shape and would've been more focused for the return (let's not forget that it was quite a lay off prior to Klitschko), and IMO he'd have knocked out the overrated Klitschko early, and would've knocked out Klitschko had the first fight continued any longer.

Lewis is definitely missed in boxing, and i've always said that he would be years in retirement before he gets the full credit that he deserves.

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Originally Posted by TheDukeof74

5. Muhammad Ali ( Dodged draft, a complaining racist and had sex out of wedlock and won a few fights in a overrated era)

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This is boxing, the sport is full of heroes who were great in the ring, but less than desirable dinner guests...

Just looking at your list, Johnson screams out as being anything but a Saint ;)

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by TheDukeof74

5. Muhammad Ali ( Dodged draft, a complaining racist and had sex out of wedlock and won a few fights in a overrated era)

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This is boxing, the sport is full of heroes who were great in the ring, but less than desirable dinner guests...

Just looking at your list, Johnson screams out as being anything but a Saint ;)

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Brilliantly stated!...CC

Lennox Lewis sickens me. So does Wlad. The extra tall heavyweights have a ridiculous advantage over the likes of Tua and Peter. The loooong jab can turn a chump into a champ.

I am a short man so I seem to favor the squatty brawlers. You would fair in saying that I have a Napolean complex.

Also, Lewis SHOULD NOT be a commentator. He struggles to find relative comments and when he does they come across forced, not at all like the previous two retired champs who held the job. What I loved about Jones Jr and Foreman is that they both flashed the same cheesy smile whenever the camera was on them. It was hilarious.

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Originally Posted by TheDukeof74

1. Joe Louis(25 successful title defenses) 2. Rocky Marciano( Fought the best in his era and retired undefeated) 3. Lennox Lewis( Fought in the best heavyweight era and holds a win over every opponent he step in the ring with) 4.Jack Johnson (overcame racism and destroyed the best in his era) 5. Muhammad Ali ( Dodged draft, a complaining racist and had sex out of wedlock and won a few fights in a overrated era)

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Sorry but there is no way that Lennox is the third best heavyweight to ever step in the ring. There was no period when he was so dominant that the question was not whether he would win, but how quickly. At their peak, Louis, Marciano, Johnson, Ali, Foreman and (yes) Tyson were that dominant. Also, while I respect your opinion, I don't agree that Lennox fought in the best heavyweight era.

Lewis was the only one mentioned who suffered any early KO losses, so he was either careless or chinny?

Also, if we were to disqualify everyine who was a complaining racist or had sex out of wedlock, we would be overlooking many of the finest fighters to step into the ropes. This is boxing, not a sainthood hall of fame!!

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by TheDukeof74

5. Muhammad Ali ( Dodged draft, a complaining racist and had sex out of wedlock and won a few fights in a overrated era)

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This is boxing, the sport is full of heroes who were great in the ring, but less than desirable dinner guests...

Just looking at your list, Johnson screams out as being anything but a Saint ;)

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;) Just don't like Ali