winky blew it

winky was told by his own corner to go out for the 12 round and fight...so going in the 12 round both corner knew it was a close fight...but winky didn't listen to his corner and just left it to the judges...what else could he would of ask for at the time...he had j.t where he wanted him...j.t's eye was closing and j.t like a champ invited winky into the ropes...but winky rather just call it a night...winky blew it...it was a very close fight...THIS FIGHT IS A DRAW...

going on to the fight i had no idea who would win...but in a rematch i believe j.t would beat winky...not playing favorites at all...if taylors eye wouldn't have be headbutted...taylor would of won this fight or he would of finish winky...winkys defences was bambared by right hands...winkys face is evident of that...

it was a close fight alright but both of them did nothing in the 12th round. thus the draw is warranted imo.

yes i feel the draw was correct...no nuthuggers no taking side playing favorite...THE FIGHT WAS A DRAW...the challenger blew it though he should of took the crown from the champ...but since the draw favored j.t because he retains the championship...winky fans are complaining...its okay to complain if you feel one way though...but the fight was a draw...the only person to blame is winky for it...

if he believes he can beat j.t then he should want the rematch...

winky is listed second on the p4p list...and if floyd would step up to him floyd would get crush so really winky should be #1 p4p...but after how good the fight was with j.t..i will argue 1 and 2 spots belong to j.t and winky on the p4p list...for the last time the first winky vs. taylor really was a DRAW...CAN'T WAIT FOR THE REMATCH...


now thats how a unbias boxing fan should sound like...no hating no taking sides just honest on how it is...

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

yes i feel the draw was correct...no nuthuggers no taking side playing favorite...THE FIGHT WAS A DRAW...the challenger blew it though he should of took the crown from the champ...but since the draw favored j.t because he retains the championship...winky fans are complaining...its okay to complain if you feel one way though...but the fight was a draw...the only person to blame is winky for it...

if he believes he can beat j.t then he should want the rematch...

winky is listed second on the p4p list...and if floyd would step up to him floyd would get crush so really winky should be #1 p4p...but after how good the fight was with j.t..i will argue 1 and 2 spots belong to j.t and winky on the p4p list...for the last time the first winky vs. taylor really was a DRAW...CAN'T WAIT FOR THE REMATCH...


now thats how a unbias boxing fan should sound like...no hating no taking sides just honest on how it is...

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??? you clearly misunderstand what "p4p" measures. you're saying that because floyd, who's like a natural 125 pounder, might lose to winky, who's a natural 154 pounder, if floyd moved up another two divisions to take the fight (and thus 7 divisions above where he started his career), therefore floyd shouldn't be ahead of Winky on a P4P basis? I guess the entire HW division should rank above PBF too then, huh?

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

yes i feel the draw was correct...no fans no taking side playing favorite...THE FIGHT WAS A DRAW...the challenger blew it though he should of took the crown from the champ...but since the draw favored j.t because he retains the championship...winky fans are complaining...its okay to complain if you feel one way though...but the fight was a draw...the only person to blame is winky for it...

if he believes he can beat j.t then he should want the rematch...

winky is listed second on the p4p list...and if floyd would step up to him floyd would get crush so really winky should be #1 p4p...but after how good the fight was with j.t..i will argue 1 and 2 spots belong to j.t and winky on the p4p list...for the last time the first winky vs. taylor really was a DRAW...CAN'T WAIT FOR THE REMATCH...


now thats how a unbias boxing fan should sound like...no hating no taking sides just honest on how it is...

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??? you clearly misunderstand what "p4p" measures. you're saying that because floyd, who's like a natural 125 pounder, might lose to winky, who's a natural 154 pounder, if floyd moved up another two divisions to take the fight (and thus 7 divisions above where he started his career), therefore floyd shouldn't be ahead of Winky on a P4P basis? I guess the entire HW division should rank above PBF too then, huh?

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are you kidding me...floyd is not a natural 125 pounder...your the one who don't know what his talking about ahah...pound for pound mean who is better if they fought at the same weight...if winky and floyd fight it would probubly be at 147 or 154...floyd is just one weight below winky...he'll really have no problem going up to fight winky or winky going down to fight floyd...winky has been calling out floyd but floyd keeps changing his mind...floyd wants no part of winky...

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

yes i feel the draw was correct...no fans no taking side playing favorite...THE FIGHT WAS A DRAW...the challenger blew it though he should of took the crown from the champ...but since the draw favored j.t because he retains the championship...winky fans are complaining...its okay to complain if you feel one way though...but the fight was a draw...the only person to blame is winky for it...

if he believes he can beat j.t then he should want the rematch...

winky is listed second on the p4p list...and if floyd would step up to him floyd would get crush so really winky should be #1 p4p...but after how good the fight was with j.t..i will argue 1 and 2 spots belong to j.t and winky on the p4p list...for the last time the first winky vs. taylor really was a DRAW...CAN'T WAIT FOR THE REMATCH...


now thats how a unbias boxing fan should sound like...no hating no taking sides just honest on how it is...

---

??? you clearly misunderstand what "p4p" measures. you're saying that because floyd, who's like a natural 125 pounder, might lose to winky, who's a natural 154 pounder, if floyd moved up another two divisions to take the fight (and thus 7 divisions above where he started his career), therefore floyd shouldn't be ahead of Winky on a P4P basis? I guess the entire HW division should rank above PBF too then, huh?

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are you kidding me...floyd is not a natural 125 pounder...your the one who don't know what his talking about ahah...pound for pound mean who is better if they fought at the same weight...if winky and floyd fight it would probubly be at 147 or 154...floyd is just one weight below winky...he'll really have no problem going up to fight winky or winky going down to fight floyd...winky has been calling out floyd but floyd keeps changing his mind...floyd wants no part of winky...

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floyd was at his best at 130/135. he's already gone higher than he should have at 147. if he fought wright, there's no way it would be at 147. it would be at 154 or 160--both of which are higher than floyd should go.

and again, on your nonsensical idea of what p4p means, the entire HW division should be ranked above floyd because, after all, if Wlad were to fight Floyd it would have to be at heavy, and a fat, 200 lb. floyd doesn't have a shot there. "p4p" is essentially a measurement of a fighter's raw skills, technique, intangibles etc. it's not "if he were to actually put on enough weight to fight in every single division, how well would he do?" rather, it's--theoretically--as a thought experiment, if these two guys right now were the same fighters they currently are, but also were the same size (i.e., not a fatter slower version, etc.), who would win? so the fact that a fat slow floyd might not dominate the MW division really has nothing at all to do with it.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

yes i feel the draw was correct...no fans no taking side playing favorite...THE FIGHT WAS A DRAW...the challenger blew it though he should of took the crown from the champ...but since the draw favored j.t because he retains the championship...winky fans are complaining...its okay to complain if you feel one way though...but the fight was a draw...the only person to blame is winky for it...

if he believes he can beat j.t then he should want the rematch...

winky is listed second on the p4p list...and if floyd would step up to him floyd would get crush so really winky should be #1 p4p...but after how good the fight was with j.t..i will argue 1 and 2 spots belong to j.t and winky on the p4p list...for the last time the first winky vs. taylor really was a DRAW...CAN'T WAIT FOR THE REMATCH...


now thats how a unbias boxing fan should sound like...no hating no taking sides just honest on how it is...

---

??? you clearly misunderstand what "p4p" measures. you're saying that because floyd, who's like a natural 125 pounder, might lose to winky, who's a natural 154 pounder, if floyd moved up another two divisions to take the fight (and thus 7 divisions above where he started his career), therefore floyd shouldn't be ahead of Winky on a P4P basis? I guess the entire HW division should rank above PBF too then, huh?

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are you kidding me...floyd is not a natural 125 pounder...your the one who don't know what his talking about ahah...pound for pound mean who is better if they fought at the same weight...if winky and floyd fight it would probubly be at 147 or 154...floyd is just one weight below winky...he'll really have no problem going up to fight winky or winky going down to fight floyd...winky has been calling out floyd but floyd keeps changing his mind...floyd wants no part of winky...

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floyd was at his best at 130/135. he's already gone higher than he should have at 147. if he fought wright, there's no way it would be at 147. it would be at 154 or 160--both of which are higher than floyd should go.

and again, on your nonsensical idea of what p4p means, the entire HW division should be ranked above floyd because, after all, if Wlad were to fight Floyd it would have to be at heavy, and a fat, 200 lb. floyd doesn't have a shot there. "p4p" is essentially a measurement of a fighter's raw skills, technique, intangibles etc. it's not "if he were to actually put on enough weight to fight in every single division, how well would he do?" rather, it's--theoretically--as a thought experiment, if these two guys right now were the same fighters they currently are, but also were the same size (i.e., not a fatter slower version, etc.), who would win? so the fact that a fat slow floyd might not dominate the MW division really has nothing at all to do with it.

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There's quite a few people that would disagree with you that Floyd was at his best at 130/135. The fact is, he wasn't even p4p in the top 5 at that time, and many feel the reason he's had closer fights since he's moved up is because the competition is stiffer. I think he's grown more as a fighter the more he's moved up and now is at the apex of his prime.

babyboNe, where does Valuev rank on your p4p list? surely he'd beat pbf at heavyweight.

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Originally Posted by smashcrusher

There's quite a few people that would disagree with you that Floyd was at his best at 130/135. The fact is, he wasn't even p4p in the top 5 at that time, and many feel the reason he's had closer fights since he's moved up is because the competition is stiffer. I think he's grown more as a fighter the more he's moved up and now is at the apex of his prime.

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that's fine, and there's room for disagreement there. plenty of people agree with me though. and i definitely think that he hasn't looked as sharp at 147. it's all beside the point though, because i don't think anyone would argue that floyd's ideal weight is at 154 or 160, which is what it would take to make a fight versus Winky a pure p4p fight (i.e., one at which they're both fighting at their ideal weights). the point is that babybone's system makes a mash out of the whole p4p concept, as violent bob's post makes quite clear.

Sam Peter vs. Manny Pacquiao at HW? Peter is being robbed on the p4p lists!

If you look at the last round Winky came out pressing as he did the entire fight. It was the last minute or so that he wasn't fighting but neither was Taylor. Winky also had more clean shots the last round, Taylor had a few clean ones and lots of misses and blocked punches. Winky probably thought he had the round because he landed better punches in the round and didnt want to give Taylor a chance at all of being walked down during the last minute. I don't know how 2 judges gave the last round to Taylor, at best for Taylor it was an even round, but Wright has been through the judging system before and shouldn't have left it so close the last round especially with Taylor's eye closed.

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Posted by global

If you look at the last round Winky came out pressing as he did the entire fight. It was the last minute or so that he wasn't fighting but neither was Taylor. Winky also had more clean shots the last round, Taylor had a few clean ones and lots of misses and blocked punches. Winky probably thought he had the round because he landed better punches in the round and didnt want to give Taylor a chance at all of being walked down during the last minute. I don't know how 2 judges gave the last round to Taylor, at best for Taylor it was an even round, but Wright has been through the judging system before and shouldn't have left it so close the last round especially with Taylor's eye closed.

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Could'nt say more

...and Winky played his plan to the very end and taylor has no plan at all but to counter shot when hit


Taylor just wanted to survive and played on the judges scorecard

Winky outboxed taylor the final round and just because its different then he did the rest of the fight he still won a round and it doesn't matter how you win a round, if you win 11 pressing and you win 12th boxing its still your round. But apparently if you're Jermain Taylor all you have to do is take a beating in the 12th or get totally outboxed and you still get it ::**

The 12th was vital to the fight and ended it as draw


But judges also forgot, Winky was the agressive fighter bringing the fight to Taylor the entire fight. Taylor just wanted to impresses the judges by making some flurry and he succeeded.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

yes i feel the draw was correct...no fans no taking side playing favorite...THE FIGHT WAS A DRAW...the challenger blew it though he should of took the crown from the champ...but since the draw favored j.t because he retains the championship...winky fans are complaining...its okay to complain if you feel one way though...but the fight was a draw...the only person to blame is winky for it...

if he believes he can beat j.t then he should want the rematch...

winky is listed second on the p4p list...and if floyd would step up to him floyd would get crush so really winky should be #1 p4p...but after how good the fight was with j.t..i will argue 1 and 2 spots belong to j.t and winky on the p4p list...for the last time the first winky vs. taylor really was a DRAW...CAN'T WAIT FOR THE REMATCH...


now thats how a unbias boxing fan should sound like...no hating no taking sides just honest on how it is...

---

??? you clearly misunderstand what "p4p" measures. you're saying that because floyd, who's like a natural 125 pounder, might lose to winky, who's a natural 154 pounder, if floyd moved up another two divisions to take the fight (and thus 7 divisions above where he started his career), therefore floyd shouldn't be ahead of Winky on a P4P basis? I guess the entire HW division should rank above PBF too then, huh?

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are you kidding me...floyd is not a natural 125 pounder...your the one who don't know what his talking about ahah...pound for pound mean who is better if they fought at the same weight...if winky and floyd fight it would probubly be at 147 or 154...floyd is just one weight below winky...he'll really have no problem going up to fight winky or winky going down to fight floyd...winky has been calling out floyd but floyd keeps changing his mind...floyd wants no part of winky...

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floyd was at his best at 130/135. he's already gone higher than he should have at 147. if he fought wright, there's no way it would be at 147. it would be at 154 or 160--both of which are higher than floyd should go.

and again, on your nonsensical idea of what p4p means, the entire HW division should be ranked above floyd because, after all, if Wlad were to fight Floyd it would have to be at heavy, and a fat, 200 lb. floyd doesn't have a shot there. "p4p" is essentially a measurement of a fighter's raw skills, technique, intangibles etc. it's not "if he were to actually put on enough weight to fight in every single division, how well would he do?" rather, it's--theoretically--as a thought experiment, if these two guys right now were the same fighters they currently are, but also were the same size (i.e., not a fatter slower version, etc.), who would win? so the fact that a fat slow floyd might not dominate the MW division really has nothing at all to do with it.

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you misunderstood I was talking about between only winky and floyd...i never said everyone heavier then floyd should be rank higher then him...your stressing a point that really is stupid...why are you focusing on other fighters heavier then floyd...

winky and floyd are basically at the same weight...between them winky is the true p4p #1...becaues winky will beat floyd at floyds current division or if they fight at winkys current division...

and no floyd wasn't at his best at 130 135 he wasn't even number p4p then...plus he is at his best now...which is at 147 140...don't come at me with your wrong info...and when you clearly misunderstand what you be reading...

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Originally Posted by Violent Bob

babyboNe, where does Valuev rank on your p4p list? surely he'd beat pbf at heavyweight.

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idiot...p4p pbf is rank way higher then who? valuev ahah...another idiot who misunderstand what i said...

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Originally Posted by babyboNe

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Originally Posted by shza

floyd was at his best at 130/135. he's already gone higher than he should have at 147. if he fought wright, there's no way it would be at 147. it would be at 154 or 160--both of which are higher than floyd should go.

and again, on your nonsensical idea of what p4p means, the entire HW division should be ranked above floyd because, after all, if Wlad were to fight Floyd it would have to be at heavy, and a fat, 200 lb. floyd doesn't have a shot there. "p4p" is essentially a measurement of a fighter's raw skills, technique, intangibles etc. it's not "if he were to actually put on enough weight to fight in every single division, how well would he do?" rather, it's--theoretically--as a thought experiment, if these two guys right now were the same fighters they currently are, but also were the same size (i.e., not a fatter slower version, etc.), who would win? so the fact that a fat slow floyd might not dominate the MW division really has nothing at all to do with it.

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you misunderstood I was talking about between only winky and floyd...i never said everyone heavier then floyd should be rank higher then him...your stressing a point that really is stupid...why are you focusing on other fighters heavier then floyd...

winky and floyd are basically at the same weight...between them winky is the true p4p #1...becaues winky will beat floyd at floyds current division or if they fight at winkys current division...

and no floyd wasn't at his best at 130 135 he wasn't even number p4p then...plus he is at his best now...which is at 147 140...don't come at me with your wrong info...and when you clearly misunderstand what you be reading...

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i think you're probably too dense to ever get this, but i'll set this straight for you one more time. you're the one who's focusing on fighters heavier than floyd--winky, specifically. you can say it as much as you want, but those two are simply not "basically at the same weight." and the fact that floyd's got a higher p4p rating now, after 2 fights at 147 (against natural 140 pounders) doesn't mean that 147's his best weight. he's lost snap from his punches, and appears to have lost a little speed. if he were to go up to 154 or 160 to fight winky (which is where that fight would have to be), he'd be even less ideal--so the fight wouldn't prove anything p4p. all i'm doing with the heavier fighters examples is pointing out the absurdity that your position reduces to. your statement, "floyd going up to a weight he has no business fighting at, and that's far from ideal for him (154/160) and losing to winky would prove that winky's better p4p," is analytically indistinguishable from the truly absurd statement, "floyd going up to a weight he has no business fighting at, and that's far from ideal for him (200+) and losing to hasim rahman would prove that rahman's better p4p."

ok, i'm through with this now. hopefully i've broken it into small enough pieces that even someone at your level can begin to grasp this very basic point.