B Hop-Rjj:Who was greater???

B Hop-Rjj:Who was greater???

i would say Roy ;D

They were both great but RJJ was friggin AWESOME but right this guy is, B-Hop is greater at 160 and RJ is better overall

rjj is in a different league just look at what hes done if he never had they 2 loses to Traver ppl would be saying he was in the top 5 all time boxers ever

Could Roy Jones have stayed motivated he could have dominated the middleweight probably until now or even later on in his career... I think he fought better opponents than Hopkins and beat them easier... IMO he was a superior athelete and boxer than Hopkins the difference is that his boxing skills and how he fought relied on his speed, and having that edge slip a bit was enough to be his doom, but if he trained like Hopkins his whole career he would still be faster and stronger than anyone out there.

I am sure RJJ will go down as greater. I still like the fact that BHOP to go out beating the guy who Ko'd Jones, but that was years after the RJJ-BHOP fight. So any correlation is moot.

To be honest you cannot compare. What are the variables at play? Do we say Jones is greater bcoz he fought in more weight divsions? Do we say Hopkins is better bcoz he defended his belt a thousand times?

I say neither...you just respect the fighters you like on your own terms...and thats it...

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Originally Posted by miles

To be honest you cannot compare. What are the variables at play? Do we say Jones is greater bcoz he fought in more weight divsions? Do we say Hopkins is better bcoz he defended his belt a thousand times?

I say neither...you just respect the fighters you like on your own terms...and thats it...

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You summed it up there....Short and sweet and to the point ;)

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Originally Posted by jtrock

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Originally Posted by miles

To be honest you cannot compare. What are the variables at play? Do we say Jones is greater bcoz he fought in more weight divsions? Do we say Hopkins is better bcoz he defended his belt a thousand times?

I say neither...you just respect the fighters you like on your own terms...and thats it...

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You summed it up there....Short and sweet and to the point ;)

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no bull with miles, ;)

Im a big Jones jr fan but to be honest he should just give it up....as great as he was he will never be great now...he will only decline...

Hopkins was the greater of the two based on how long he was at the top.....RJJ in his prime was easily the better boxer however imo.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Jones beat Hopkins easily (with a broken hand). Don't know what the debate is

Jones is definitely greater. B-Hop is great as well, but Jones was simply unstoppable. The guy won titles all the way from middleweight to heavyweight. That has to count for something, not to mention, Jones beat B-Hop and would have beat him again if they fought in 2002 or 2003 when RJJ said to Hopkins on HBO during an interview with B-Hop about a possible fight "Gimme 60/40 and I'll whup yo ass!!!"

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Originally Posted by miles

I say neither...you just respect the fighters you like on your own terms...and thats it...

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:appl:

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Jones is definitely greater. B-Hop is great as well, but Jones was simply unstoppable. The guy won titles all the way from middleweight to heavyweight. That has to count for something, not to mention, Jones beat B-Hop and would have beat him again if they fought in 2002 or 2003 when RJJ said to Hopkins on HBO during an interview with B-Hop about a possible fight "Gimme 60/40 and I'll whup yo a**!!!"

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-Well thats kinda ironic how mr.unstoppable got stopped.Twice.Then you say roy would have beat him in 2002-03.Well thats your opinion but alot of people thought he would beat tarver.

-Did you notice in that same interview after his fight how roy mentioned tarver but then never gave him a chance until he crashed his press conference a year later and pissed him off even though tarver was his mandatory.I didn't want to believe that roy ducked this guy but looking back now it kinda seems that way.But as far as this debate goes i'll stick with MILES and say they were both great.I can't put one over the other. But i will say roy was the better athlete but hop was the better boxer.

-P.S. As far as that 60/40 thing goes. Its funny how roy wouldn't take 50/50 with hop but then goes onto fight clinton woods. In a 50/50 split with how big that fight would have been 50% would have been way more than what he got to fight woods. Thats when i knew it wasn't about money. Truth is i don't think he wanted to fight hop again.Roy ain't stupid he knew hop wouldn't go for anything less than 50/50 and thats why he said it.

-P.P.S The one thing i don't agree on in this article is how roy was a shell of his former self. Maybe he was by the time he fought johnson but no sooner. IMO a fighter don't go from great to a shell of his former self in one fight. He used SRL as an example but SRL was already showing the signs before norris beat him. SRR showed the signs,Ali showed the signs but roy was great in 2003 then hes a shell in 2004. I don't buy that.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

They were both great but RJJ was friggin AWESOME but right this guy is, B-Hop is greater at 160 and RJ is better overall

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that sounds correct.......RJJ then is like PBF now......PBF is so dominant that they always question his opposition AFTERWARD!!!..... Zab was on everyone's p4p list....and people thought Gatti was going to hang and were upset when PBF called him a "C" level fighter and then embarrassed Gatti......

I have RJJ all time #35, Hpokins #38:

39 Azumah Nelson
38 Bernard Hopkins
37 Jack Johnson
36 Ricardo Lopez
35 Roy Jones
34 George Foreman
33 Joe Gans

RJJ is IMO a Great fighter, but Hopkins is merely superb. I think there are only 35 Great fighters of the Queensberry Rules era, and RJJ is 35th of 35. In due course I think Hopkins will be considered Great by myself... but not for the moment ;)

RJJ,
Behind the back KO makes me laugh to this day...

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Originally Posted by Britkid

I have RJJ all time #35, Hpokins #38:

39 Azumah Nelson
38 Bernard Hopkins
37 Jack Johnson
36 Ricardo Lopez
35 Roy Jones
34 George Foreman
33 Joe Gans

RJJ is IMO a Great fighter, but Hopkins is merely superb. I think there are only 35 Great fighters of the Queensberry Rules era, and RJJ is 35th of 35. In due course I think Hopkins will be considered Great by myself... but not for the moment ;)

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The difference between great and superb for you is 3 spaces?

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Britkid

I have RJJ all time #35, Hpokins #38:

39 Azumah Nelson
38 Bernard Hopkins
37 Jack Johnson
36 Ricardo Lopez
35 Roy Jones
34 George Foreman
33 Joe Gans

RJJ is IMO a Great fighter, but Hopkins is merely superb. I think there are only 35 Great fighters of the Queensberry Rules era, and RJJ is 35th of 35. In due course I think Hopkins will be considered Great by myself... but not for the moment ;)

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The difference between great and superb for you is 3 spaces?

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No it is one space; when I did my 2004 all time 100 list, I had 34 great fighters stopping at Foreman. In March 2006 I re-did list and decided that IMO RJJ derserved the title Great.

In due course, I suspect I will consider the likes of Lopez, Johnson, Hopkins and Nelson Great... but for the minute, IMO, they are merely superb

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Originally Posted by MRMANICK

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Jones is definitely greater. B-Hop is great as well, but Jones was simply unstoppable. The guy won titles all the way from middleweight to heavyweight. That has to count for something, not to mention, Jones beat B-Hop and would have beat him again if they fought in 2002 or 2003 when RJJ said to Hopkins on HBO during an interview with B-Hop about a possible fight "Gimme 60/40 and I'll whup yo a**!!!"

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-Well thats kinda ironic how mr.unstoppable got stopped.Twice.Then you say roy would have beat him in 2002-03.Well thats your opinion but alot of people thought he would beat tarver.

-Did you notice in that same interview after his fight how roy mentioned tarver but then never gave him a chance until he crashed his press conference a year later and pissed him off even though tarver was his mandatory.I didn't want to believe that roy ducked this guy but looking back now it kinda seems that way.But as far as this debate goes i'll stick with MILES and say they were both great.I can't put one over the other. But i will say roy was the better athlete but hop was the better boxer.

-P.S. As far as that 60/40 thing goes. Its funny how roy wouldn't take 50/50 with hop but then goes onto fight clinton woods. In a 50/50 split with how big that fight would have been 50% would have been way more than what he got to fight woods. Thats when i knew it wasn't about money. Truth is i don't think he wanted to fight hop again.Roy ain't stupid he knew hop wouldn't go for anything less than 50/50 and thats why he said it.

-P.P.S The one thing i don't agree on in this article is how roy was a shell of his former self. Maybe he was by the time he fought johnson but no sooner. IMO a fighter don't go from great to a shell of his former self in one fight. He used SRL as an example but SRL was already showing the signs before norris beat him. SRR showed the signs,Ali showed the signs but roy was great in 2003 then hes a shell in 2004. I don't buy that.

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... For the 60/40 thing Roy deserved it... Hopkins if he was so confident in winning he would have took the fight, but Roy Jones beat him the first time, and he was #1 p4p he deserves a greater share of the money IMO. Roy also had an ego which because of the things I mentioned made him feel he deserved more because he had done more. Also Prime Jones was never even close to being stopped... As for Jones' recent dramatic reduction is productivity/abilities is because he the 30 pounds so quickly, and he doesn't train like he used to... Another thing is Tarver's ko was blind luck... Jones was winning the fight though only in the second round up until that perfect punch after that he lost alot of his confidence in the ring which is probably the biggest thing most boxers have.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by MRMANICK

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

Jones is definitely greater. B-Hop is great as well, but Jones was simply unstoppable. The guy won titles all the way from middleweight to heavyweight. That has to count for something, not to mention, Jones beat B-Hop and would have beat him again if they fought in 2002 or 2003 when RJJ said to Hopkins on HBO during an interview with B-Hop about a possible fight "Gimme 60/40 and I'll whup yo a**!!!"

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-Well thats kinda ironic how mr.unstoppable got stopped.Twice.Then you say roy would have beat him in 2002-03.Well thats your opinion but alot of people thought he would beat tarver.

-Did you notice in that same interview after his fight how roy mentioned tarver but then never gave him a chance until he crashed his press conference a year later and pissed him off even though tarver was his mandatory.I didn't want to believe that roy ducked this guy but looking back now it kinda seems that way.But as far as this debate goes i'll stick with MILES and say they were both great.I can't put one over the other. But i will say roy was the better athlete but hop was the better boxer.

-P.S. As far as that 60/40 thing goes. Its funny how roy wouldn't take 50/50 with hop but then goes onto fight clinton woods. In a 50/50 split with how big that fight would have been 50% would have been way more than what he got to fight woods. Thats when i knew it wasn't about money. Truth is i don't think he wanted to fight hop again.Roy ain't stupid he knew hop wouldn't go for anything less than 50/50 and thats why he said it.

-P.P.S The one thing i don't agree on in this article is how roy was a shell of his former self. Maybe he was by the time he fought johnson but no sooner. IMO a fighter don't go from great to a shell of his former self in one fight. He used SRL as an example but SRL was already showing the signs before norris beat him. SRR showed the signs,Ali showed the signs but roy was great in 2003 then hes a shell in 2004. I don't buy that.

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... For the 60/40 thing Roy deserved it... Hopkins if he was so confident in winning he would have took the fight, but Roy Jones beat him the first time, and he was #1 p4p he deserves a greater share of the money IMO. Roy also had an ego which because of the things I mentioned made him feel he deserved more because he had done more. Also Prime Jones was never even close to being stopped... As for Jones' recent dramatic reduction is productivity/abilities is because he the 30 pounds so quickly, and he doesn't train like he used to... Another thing is Tarver's ko was blind luck... Jones was winning the fight though only in the second round up until that perfect punch after that he lost alot of his confidence in the ring which is probably the biggest thing most boxers have.

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-Well it would be one thing if he knocked hopkins out but the truth is he won a boring decision almost 10 years. A fight that i believe just as the writer was probably his toughest fight until tarver. Roy was #1 and hop was #2. Both undisputed champs and hop just beat tito at a time when roy ain't fight nobody worth mentioning since toney. All that considering i think 50/50 was fair. Who was roy gonna get big money fighting besides a heavyweight? Like i said 50/50 would have been alot of money.If tito would of beat hop do you think roy would have gotten 60/40 against tito? Hell no. Considering roy wasn't a big ppv draw i think 50/50 was fair.

-As far as his training and weight loss go how do YOU know thats what it is? Have you been to his training camp? Are you a doctor? I doubt that.

-I don't think that was a blind punch. Have you ever looked at the replay in slow-mo? It was a good counter left hand thats it. Weight loss and less training didn't make him walk into that punch.Look at the replay. Roy throws a straight right that barely hit tarver and instead of backing up after his miss me tried to throw a left hook and got caught with his right hand to far out and he got tagged.