Printable View
I know the popularity factor has fallen off huge the past years, especially the past 5 years, but this seems to be an all time low. I can't remember a period where there's really no mega fight on the horizon in the next few months. Mosley-Vargas II doesn't strike me as very exciting, since they're both past their bests. I just have a bad feeling that it won't get much better. More athletes seem to be going in other sports at young ages.
boxing is fine...only the heavyweight division sucks real bad...the featherweight division is in a golden era...in welterweights lightweights have stiff competitions as well...two great fighters are fighting over the middleweight throne...(winky and j.t) and we never know whats going to happen in the lightheavyweight...first roy gets knock out...then comes bhop to take over the division...
as for coming fights that aren't happening well you can thank that to floyd for not being more like winky and pac...winky and pac just flat out come and fight anybody...we never hear pac talking about how much he should get for a fights...
boxing is fine...its just that more and more boxer rather be businessmans as well then just being BOXERS FIGHTERS...
The is great fighting going on below lightheavy weight, but boxing definitely isn't the sport it was, and I blame PPV and King for that... in trying to make more money boxing has cut off a large portion of its watching group just because people have to pay 50$ to watch a fight when it costs like 30$ a month for satellite or cable and having 10-12 football(american or otherwise), and everything else watched on t.v.
These guys are hanging themselves with MMA out there as an alternative. That A hole King needs to put up unification bouts now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Considering I can pull oup 3 year old posts and people fill 2 more pages with comments, yeah it's bad and boring right now for us die hard fans.
I've only really been a boxing fan for about a year now, but I have become addicted!!
I watch MMA, but I can't get as involved as I can with boxing. People complain about PPV and King
but there are lots of good fights on ESPN, ESPN2, FOX and SKY. Every sport has it's corruption, don't
get me wrong ALL sports have corruption.
I have been actively recruiting people into watching fights with me, talking about them and what not
while this may be a downturn right now I for one still believe boxing has a bright future!!
I'm pretty much in the same boat as you Killersheep. I have always enjoyed watching the boxing from a young age when my folks would let me stay up late to watch a big fight. It is not until the last couple of years though that I have become a full blown fan of the sport making sure I don't miss any of the fights that are on. Its become more of an obsession now!. Admittedly the heavyweight division is not what it once was but there are still plenty of good fighters in a lot of the divisions and a lot of real good prospects coming up through the ranks. I think the sport is still looking good for the future and with a few changes along the way it can be huge again.
Nothing comes close to watching a good boxing match in sporting terms and that wont change.
:coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatsd
Now that Oscar De La Hoya is gone boxing needs another golden boy. And even though I think PBF skill is better than Oscar's ever was the image as well an the popularity of PBF cannot compare to Oscar. He has more star power than anybody who has ever boxed (Ray Leonard 2, Ali 3) and now that his career is almost over we have nobody to take over that image. The heavyweight division will alway's be the top earner even though it is simply garbage at this point, that's why boxing needs the PBF-Oscar fight. Sugar Ray's star power dominated the 80's with Mike Tyson taking over the poster boy for boxing after his career faded, and then Oscar took it over in the Olymics in 92, but I don't see anybody taking it over now.
I can't stand MMA, K-1, Pride or any of that bullcrap...with those sports you have pretty much NO history, no tradition...with boxing it's tradtion born from friggin Ancient Rome and when someone is (now UNIFIED, or Linear) Heavyweight Champion they hold the same position Jack Johnson, John L. Sullivan, and Jim Corbett held.
and I find kicking to be rather girlish, if you can't beat someone with your fists you don't deserve to
What?? The roots of Martial Arts have been around for centuries......Karate, Judo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Really??Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If I ever get in a fight again (probably won't) but if I do I will have to remember to throw that one out there to my opponent "no kicking.......... it's girlish" Then when he starts laughing I'm going to throw a straight right to his jaw, have a designated spectator count to ten....hug him and then walk away the victor. ;D
Just fucking with you bro..
Everyone has there preferences........Boxing has always been my first favorite because of the strategy that is often (not always) involved. However, I find MMA in second and I really can't discount the skills and training that those people bring to the table.
MMA has gotten me through many a dull weekend whist waiting for an upcoming boxing match. In my mind one really can't substitute one for the other but I'm afraid that a lot of other people won't feel that way.
Coming from a Marketing background, I have to say that it would be absolutely idiotic if the governing bodies of boxing did not look at MMA as competition.
So what does this mean????
Here's what I'm getting at:
1.) Boxing needs to be more accessible to the public to increase viewership.
2.) Some of these crooked a** promoters need to retire or get the boot or be FORCED TO UNIFY SOME TITLES and give us the fights that we deserve as fans rather than setting up un-interesting "gimme" fights to protect their market share!
3.) Fights and fighters need to be marketed properly as well. If I wasn't on this forum or if I didn't visit fight news then I would never know when half of the fights are taking place.
4.) The cost of some of these PPV fights needs to come down so that the non-die hard public who have a borderline interest in boxing can actually watch a fight without having to fork over $50.00 a pop.
There is absolutely NO GENIUS in charging a target market $50.00 to watch a fight. It's simply robbery.
If you want to impress people as a promoter...then increase the market share.....increase viewership..draw up a business plan.....but don't just take a fight to another country or charge $5.00 more dollars this year for a fight........that mickey mouse S*** doesn't make you a smart business man. No innovation there.
Now with all of that said.....if you don't think that MMA is a threat to boxing’s market share then I don't know what to tell you.
I agree with you. CCQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I don't know if it's bullcrap, but I don't like watching it either. There is something less compelling about those fights, almost boring. Calvin Brock Vs. Ibragimov type boring. It also seems that their skills are very sloppy and unhoned.
Of course, I have a huge collection of 70's and 80's kung fu flicks so what do I know...
I'm fine with the state of boxing right now because I'm down with the lighter divisions because there's always more excitement & actual boxing instead of head hunting.
Lyle my friend you never cease to amaze me, you know NOTHING about Ancient combat systems were the origin of most martial arts come from Hence MMA which run 100's of years before Boxing, it was called survival.. For Example some Ancient combat systems are indigenous to the regions they were born from...Long before they had guns and knifes,swords armor,people defended themselves with there limbs hand to hand combat and slowly weapons were incorporated as they were introduced to society..Some combat systems are weapons oriented so they can be done open handed or with a sword,knife,stick but the movements are the same..Strikes that are more civilized have been incorporated into the sport form while other movements like joint manipulations joint destruction eye gouging have etc have been left out for obvious reasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Entertainment value is subjective I agree 100% and thats your right to dislike it but thats an all time low for you to get on a public forum and take an unprovoked attack on someones style..I work hard at what I do and to have some punk ass like you to tell me I'm girly for kicking someone is bullshit period!!!! its a whole different skill set all together...
Tell you Mr big balls,Would you be willing to step in a cage with a welterweight NHB fighter and tell him his style sucks and he is a girl for what he does???? I tend to believe you wouldnt have the 1st Idea on how to deal with the consequences though...we would find you trying to climb the side of the cage like some pathetic snivelling keyboard jocky you are
Stick to what you know... Hugging Wlads nuts OH!!!!! and more tradional for you would be tugging on Foremans too
You Know were the TRADITION is from ancient martial arts??? Its called survival you get to live another day thats the FRIGGIN LINEAGE YOU POMPOUS THICK HEADED MORON!!!!
1 more thing Boxing is considered a Martial Art!!!
you lost me on the bottem part? ::** Now for American heavyweights sucking . U right about that. as far as the rest of the divisons Americans are strong in these areas . IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Deutschland uber alles
I really like these Russian fighters coming up, they bring it ! very good fighters, and excellent boxing coaches over there. very tough strict conditions and most important discipline
I got to say I am sorry for insulting you and calling you a  moron and a Wlad Hugger. I feel as though disliking something is fine and your God given right, but dont S*** on what someone else does and other Martial Arts (especially unprovoked)  just cause you dont like it or find it entertaining........Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Being a Martial artist is not about owning Karate kid headbands,Chinese stars, numchuks and having Velvet Bruce Lee paintings, Its very rich in tradition, history and different cultural understanding..Things like arm bars and leg locks,chokes etc are designed to break bones and mutilate and to mame in real life self defense situations, but made more civilized and used as  submissions for sport purposes...
These moves were no invented in the mid 90's they have been around for hundreds of years for survival thats the tradition...
I feel the same way, I am a martial arts fan also, but like you said the K1 stuff for the most part seems sloppy, and fairly boring to watch . To each his own I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
I got to say I am sorry for insulting you and calling you a moron and a Wlad Hugger. I feel as though disliking something is fine and your God given right, but dont S*** on what someone else does and other Martial Arts (especially unprovoked) just cause you dont like it or find it entertaining........Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Being a Martial artist is not about owning Karate kid headbands,Chinese stars, numchuks and having Velvet Bruce Lee paintings, Its very rich in tradition, history and different cultural understanding..Things like arm bars and leg locks,chokes etc are designed to break bones and mutilate and to mame in real life self defense situations, but made more civilized and used as submissions for sport purposes...
These moves were no invented in the mid 90's they have been around for hundreds of years for survival thats the tradition...
[/quote]
I understand the whole "martial arts" tradition, I never said anything about Ju Jutsu, Tae Kwan Do, and so on and so forth as for "Mixed Martial Arts" or "Pride" or "Ultimate Fighting" I don't like them, yeah ok if people want to kick in fights whatever, I don't care, yeah I guess in a "street fight" I would expect such tactics but I don't kick, call me old fashioned, call me whatever you want I would just rather use my fists.
If you are going to have no holds barred fighting, then do it right, pride and ufc...take away the gloves and let the guys go at it...I'm not a fan of submission holds either, it's boring it's childish...you remember the bully in A Christmas Story "say uncle, say uncle"....I don't know maybe something is wrong with me, I'd rather see boxing.
I have nothing but respect for the tradition of martial arts though
Agreed. Nothing's wrong with you...I'd rather see boxing too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The thing is...this site is debticated to boxing...MMA/Pride Fighting is not boxing...no matter what anyone says...sorry...it just aint.
Agreed again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
:coolclick:
Huge fan of martial arts as a science...but not the form it has taken in MMA.
That anyone actually believes MMA is remotely close to the true source/science of reputtable martial arts kills me.
Sorry to kill you Wacks!!!! all joking aside MMA sport Submissions are civilized versions of what they were designed to do long time ago, KILL and MAME... thats what they are...PERIOD!!!!! and if you read and research Martial Arts grappling systems like Russian Sambo,Ju Jitsu, Brazilian Ju Jitsu, Dumog(Filipino Grappling) Greco Roman Wrestling,Shooto(Japanese Shoot Wrestling) and various other cultural grappling systems are.. TRUE SOURCE AND VERY REPUTTABLE!!!! Whether you want to believe it or not it is true just about every culture dating back to ancient times has some sort of self defense system that includes grappling, whether it was born from there culture or it was an influence from another culture that occupied there territory or vice versa or mixed the two together etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
I am not argueing which one is better Boxing or MMA!!!! I am well aware that this is a BOXING FORUM... I do not post MMA Things on here Unless I put it under the appropriate MMA section were I am invited to do so on the forum home page.. I am already registered to a World wide forum like this that belongs to the school I train in to dicuss Martial Arts Science Technique Origin and History,Tradition etc..
I keep my MMA Opinions to myself but when you and Lyle post things that are scientific,traditionaly and historically wrong I am gonna call you on it cause it is just false info POINT BLANK!!!!
I am not offended that you dont like MMA I really dont care either way I LOVE Boxing just like you guys thats why I am here and do not wish to convert you to MMA or argue its signifigance when you dont see any value in it.. You have Free will and have the choice in life to entertain yourself as you please...
I like your posts and Lyle's and find them informative and educational, BUT the problem I have is when you are speaking about MMA and stating your opinion but saying it is fact, that is just plain Wrong and I will call you on it 10 times out of 10
Calling it WHITE TRASH,GIRLISH AND HAVING NO TRADITION OR HISTORY is just opinions of yours...
and Lyle there is nothing wrong with you brother BOXING is awsome and like I say entertainment value is subjective
:coolclick: to the both of you I really like this site and enjoy the mix of guys and girls on it and enjoy a good educational discussion!!!
I have always heard it said that if you want to learn to defend yourself and you want to do it fast take up boxing.
The martial arts is a loooooong journey with no destination. Most people are in too big a rush to appreciate it.
I have a Korean friend who swears to me that it all started there, but I was under the impression that it has it's roots in China. Then on National Geographic or Discovery Channel a few years back I hear India. Which is it, JT?
:coolclick: i think this is the worst boxing has been, there is no tyson or ali.
the last time i remember the papers hyping a fight was the lacyv calz
theres hardly any talk about boxing in the papers, its all football. Theres hardly anything hapning in boxing. too many ppl ducking and diving, they should jus get in the ring and fight ;D in boxing it takes 2 months to negotiate a fight then another 2/3 months for the fight to happen, takes the piss!
i think mma is on the rise and k-1. thats cos the fights just get made jus like that.
Let me say this...I see where you are coming from...wanting to defend what you love...but IWO...MMA, while it comprises of kicking & some boxing does not equate to what I have always known to be martial arts.Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
To me MMA comes from where it was rooted & that is that it has a lot to do with Greek wrestling & Japanese wrestling.
I just don't consider MMA to be as diciplined as actual martial art techniques. I don't buy into the art of wrestling or grappling. I know some people do...but it does indeed bore me. I know that there is a skill to it...but in the end...it just don't work for me.
Again...I aint trying to rip...but I do have a lower opinion of it than I do boxing.
I think of MMA as just survival type means of fighting which is totally different than you Boxing, Karate, K-1 (eventhough it's boring)
MMA is just rolling on the ground and grappling and striking while you're on the ground .....and basically I could take a trip to a middle or high school and see that stuff on a regular everyday basis for free.
It's fighting but discipline?....no there is no discipline, I mean we're talking about pulling hair, choke holds, eye gouges....I'd fight different if I was trying to kill someone that's for sure and it might be more of the MMA style but if you aren't "fighting for your life" then basically it's gayness
:doh: lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I have the greatest respect for jtrocks opinions and I'm sure the true lineage and history of martial arts is a long, interesting and rewarding one.
It seems to me though the MMA and the like represent the very antithesis of what pure martial arts training is actually about.
I must admit my knowledge of martial arts is limited pretty much to watching Enter the Dragon and The Karate Kid but I've always been led to believe that true martial arts were about self mastery, discipline and control rather than brawling for entertainment?
To me MMA has more in common with WWF Wrestling than with true martial arts. I'm also fairly certain the majority of guys involved are there, mainly because they are not good enough to excel at any other sport so resort to MMA to get fame, money and adulation.
You cannot tell me that Tank Abott is a serious athlete for example. To me he is a step down from Butterbean in terms of skill and ability.
Yes I've watched MMA and Ultimate fighting and enjoyed it, but never have I marvelled at any technical abilities or subtle skills that were on display.
For me it's always occupied the same kind of ground entertainment wise as watching World's Wildest Street Brawls, or Bumfights. Its just entertaining, largely mindless violence to sell a few dvds and fill a few minor arenas with fans who see their favourite fighters much the same way as they would see Hulk Hugan, The Rock, or The Undertaker.
However, as I am purely a boxing fan, don't take this personally jtrock ;)
I'm sure if I turned up on the MMA forums and waxed lyrical about how much better boxing was than MMA I'd have a far worse reception than you have here,
Agreed...all but the Ralph Machio parts... ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
:coolclick:
Thanks for the respect Brotha!!!!! Everyone has the right to entertain themselves as they see fit... :coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
To me boxing is great........MMA is great.......I like boxing more though. The only thing I can't stand is the litte pricks out there who are just getting into MMA.....if I have to look at another 19 year old with a "FULL CONTACT FIGHTER" shirt on at the mall I swear to god I'm going to :throwup:. I have also noticed that those who practice MMA are always all too quick to tell you all about it. That's definitely the one thing that drives me nuts about MMA.
So here's what am I getting at??? If you're practicing MMA and you ain't on my television set then I don't want to hear about it!!!
Keep it to yourself.
Otherwise....if you subtract the adolescent factor and the bragging amateur factor, then it's a great sport.
Boxing = excuse for me to drink beer, laze around the pad looking haggard and talk shit to the TV
MMA = excuse for me to drink beer, laze around the pad looking haggard and talk shit to the TV
Looks like a win win too me!
That can not be argued one little bit! Great point. ccQuote:
Originally Posted by mucho testosterone
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatsd
CC back at you.
[quote=mucho testosterone ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatsd
You know boxing present always sucks. I was eight years old in 1982 when I first started to comprehend the sport, and my old man was slagging it off to the hilt...Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And yet you had Leonard in his prime, Hagler near his prime, Holmes/Cooney, Pryor/ArguelloI and the hot Super Feathers. By the end of the decade, when The Ring's special decade magazine came out, it looked like the year of the decade...
And yet 1990 looked like it was going to suck; then Douglas/Tyson and Chavez/TaylorI happened...
By 1995 boxing was sucking again in Britain but Naseem came along, and you had Benn/McClellan...
I guess what I am saying is if you watch this sport for along period, you always think the present sucks, but then ten years down the line,you appreciate what it gave you, and you think it was the greatest era ever, and the present era sucks! ;)
Too true, too true.. and it's not just boxing, just listen to any old person rant on how much better it was in their day.Quote:
Originally Posted by BK
It's part of the human condition. It seems that everybody harks back to a former golden age, and looks forward to a future utopia, whilst having to endure the drudgery of the present.
I guess what I am saying is if you watch this sport for along period, you always think the present sucks, but then ten years down the line,you appreciate what it gave you, and you think it was the greatest era ever, and the present era sucks! BK
It's part of the human condition. It seems that everybody harks back to a former golden age, and looks forward to a future utopia, whilst having to endure the drudgery of the present. Bilbo
:appl: :coolclick:
Too true, too true.. and it's not just boxing, just listen to any old person rant on how much better it was in their day.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
It's part of the human condition. It seems that everybody harks back to a former golden age, and looks forward to a future utopia, whilst having to endure the drudgery of the present.
[/quote]
That was poetry baby ! pure Poetry :coolclick:
back at you both :coolclick:
ooh I got karma with you gorilla so need to wait a few hours!