Pacman evolving into a complete fighter

After watching pac-larios, I am sensing a change/improvement in Manny's style. He does not go ouot for that knockout early, but will if the opportunity presents itself. His defense, lead left hands(almost a B-hop lead, without the holding), body shots, hooks. I mean he's not as good in the Morales rematch but the skills he has shown last Saturday were very good and are in the making of a very complete and intelligent fighter. There are a lot of fighters who started the same way. What do you think? Can he be a very good boxer like B-Hop or even MAB under Roach's guidance? or is he a different breed and can be greater?

I agree that his slowly evolving into true boxer, yes i saw those lead left and it really looks like B-hop lead punches..and some glimpse of RJJ in that move too!!! ;D

CC for the nice article about PACMAN....

:coolclick: CC back at yah! Really Pac's one of the most exciting fighters, if not the most exciting fighter, in this generation. I just hope he keeps on rolling baby! O0

He's a great fighter already since the first time i saw him fight the only difference is his a smarter fighter now and he got his new boxing style "THE NO LOOK PUNCH!!! :knock_out: hahaha!! ;D

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

Adter wathcing pac-larios, I am sensing a change/improvement in Manny's style. He does not go ouot for that knockout early, but will if the opportunity presents itself. His defense, lead left hands(almost a B-hop lead, without the holding), body shots, hooks. I mean he's not as good in the Morales rematch but the skills he has shown last Saturday were very good and are in the making of a very complete and intelligent fighter. There are a lot of fighters who started the same way. What do you think? Can he be a very good boxer like B-Hop or even MAB under Roach's guidance? or is he a different breed and can be greater?

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Yeah great fighters get better and better as they learn on the job, working on things, Pac has great people around him, and he's having fun. Freddie Roach is an awesome Trainer, i admire him alot for the things he has overcomed in his life. you can't help but admire a guy like that ! top notch camp . :coolclick: for the thread

Go Pacman eat them all up!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

Adter wathcing pac-larios, I am sensing a change/improvement in Manny's style. He does not go ouot for that knockout early, but will if the opportunity presents itself. His defense, lead left hands(almost a B-hop lead, without the holding), body shots, hooks. I mean he's not as good in the Morales rematch but the skills he has shown last Saturday were very good and are in the making of a very complete and intelligent fighter. There are a lot of fighters who started the same way. What do you think? Can he be a very good boxer like B-Hop or even MAB under Roach's guidance? or is he a different breed and can be greater?

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Ok, this is actually a good question. I'll admit, that despite being Filipino, I was at first, skeptical about Manny. He didn't have what we call, fundamental boxing skills (like most of the Filipino boxers). He would swing wildly, looking for a KO punch. When Roach came around, he was refined. He started to use more of his jab, set up combos, and even work the body.

Yes, Manny is one the way to becoming a more complete fighter. IMO, he still lacks some defense. One of his weaknesses, (and there are a few), is hi tendency to, how should I say, "show off" in the middle of the fight. In his fights with Morales, when he got hit with a clean shot, he would raise his arms and show that he wasn't hurt. Nothing wrong with that, but for me, that leaves you open. I mean, if Manny pulled that off against a Floyd Mayweather type, he'd be eating a one-two combo in an instant. If Manny really wants to improve, he has to improve his defense A LOT.

With this in mind, I think it's way to early to start thinking about comparing the Pacman to B-Hop. Hopkins was something else. he had great boxing skills, and some of the best defense on the planet. Manny isn't even close, YET. And as for the comparisons to Hopkins' lead left, we have to remember Manny is a southpaw. We can't compare his left to B-Hop's. A better comparsion would be to notice if Manny was leading with his right.

If Manny really dedicates himself, he canr eally improve. But he won't be a true complete boxer. Manny is a puncher at heart, and so are most of the guys trained by Roach (anyone remember Tyson?). But he can still improve and may be one of the best Featherweights of all time.

theirs nothing pac can't do...its just a matter of what he wants to do to his oppenent...his become a brilliant fighter in the age of 27...he can't hurt you with a counter right hook...or a lead left straigh or a brutall barrage of combos...his only getting more and more unstoppable...

WELCOME TO THE ERA OF MANNY "THE DESTROYER" PACQUIAO

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Originally Posted by Legend KilleR

theirs nothing pac can't do...its just a matter of what he wants to do to his oppenent...his become a brilliant fighter in the age of 27...he can't hurt you with a counter right hook...or a lead left straigh or a brutall barrage of combos...his only getting more and more unstoppable...

WELCOME TO THE ERA OF MANNY "THE DESTROYER" PACQUIAO

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you're doing a good job at hyping pacquiao up. just don't overdo it, bro.

What do you guys mean by "Lead right hand" "lead" I don't understands.

Explain please :)

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Originally Posted by MikeTysonKnockOut

What do you guys mean by "Lead right hand" "lead" I don't understands.

Explain please :)

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"Lead right" or "lead left" basically means what you're opening punch in a sequence is. If you're a distance away from the opponent, and you lunge in, you usually have a "lead" punch, in this case, a lead left or lead right.

In the case above, B-Hop has a lead left, meaning he usually comes in with a left straight then follows up with combos.

Not to be confused with a jab, which is weaker and usually used to establish range or find openings on defense, a lead punch can be devastating in its own right or lead to multiple combos.

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Originally Posted by jontabs

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Originally Posted by MikeTysonKnockOut

What do you guys mean by "Lead right hand" "lead" I don't understands.

Explain please :)

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"Lead right" or "lead left" basically means what you're opening punch in a sequence is. If you're a distance away from the opponent, and you lunge in, you usually have a "lead" punch, in this case, a lead left or lead right.

In the case above, B-Hop has a lead left, meaning he usually comes in with a left straight then follows up with combos.

Not to be confused with a jab, which is weaker and usually used to establish range or find openings on defense, a lead punch can be devastating in its own right or lead to multiple combos.

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Actually, I was referring to the dominant hand lead. I mean B-Hop is right handed, he raises his right hand near his chin for defense and looks like a loaded/cocked weapon waiting to unload on his opponents. For Pac he's a southpaw so he uses Lead Left hand. Thanks. :coolclick:

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Originally Posted by jontabs

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

Adter wathcing pac-larios, I am sensing a change/improvement in Manny's style. He does not go ouot for that knockout early, but will if the opportunity presents itself. His defense, lead left hands(almost a B-hop lead, without the holding), body shots, hooks. I mean he's not as good in the Morales rematch but the skills he has shown last Saturday were very good and are in the making of a very complete and intelligent fighter. There are a lot of fighters who started the same way. What do you think? Can he be a very good boxer like B-Hop or even MAB under Roach's guidance? or is he a different breed and can be greater?

---

Ok, this is actually a good question. I'll admit, that despite being Filipino, I was at first, skeptical about Manny. He didn't have what we call, fundamental boxing skills (like most of the Filipino boxers). He would swing wildly, looking for a KO punch. When Roach came around, he was refined. He started to use more of his jab, set up combos, and even work the body.

Yes, Manny is one the way to becoming a more complete fighter. IMO, he still lacks some defense. One of his weaknesses, (and there are a few), is hi tendency to, how should I say, "show off" in the middle of the fight. In his fights with Morales, when he got hit with a clean shot, he would raise his arms and show that he wasn't hurt. Nothing wrong with that, but for me, that leaves you open. I mean, if Manny pulled that off against a Floyd Mayweather type, he'd be eating a one-two combo in an instant. If Manny really wants to improve, he has to improve his defense A LOT.

With this in mind, I think it's way to early to start thinking about comparing the Pacman to B-Hop. Hopkins was something else. he had great boxing skills, and some of the best defense on the planet. Manny isn't even close, YET. And as for the comparisons to Hopkins' lead left, we have to remember Manny is a southpaw. We can't compare his left to B-Hop's. A better comparsion would be to notice if Manny was leading with his right.

If Manny really dedicates himself, he canr eally improve. But he won't be a true complete boxer. Manny is a puncher at heart, and so are most of the guys trained by Roach (anyone remember Tyson?). But he can still improve and may be one of the best Featherweights of all time.

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You cannot compare Manny to B-Hop, complete different styles. B-Hop is a counter puncher and Manny is an aggressor. Taking the aggression away from Manny takes away from his defense. The opposition cannot be offensive because of Manny's aggression. Fortunately, Manny has power which helps but if he fights too passive, he will lose. This is why Freddie Roach is the perfect trainer, he uses Manny's punching power and quickness to his advantage. In Manny's weight class, there are no other fighters with his power. Manny just needs to work on foot work and learning to slide side to side. Once he develops his footwork, he will be unstoppable. It took him 4 rounds in his fight with Larios to understand that as long as he moves side to side he will keep his opponent off balance and then he can unload his punches.

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Originally Posted by BUTU

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Originally Posted by jontabs

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

Adter wathcing pac-larios, I am sensing a change/improvement in Manny's style. He does not go ouot for that knockout early, but will if the opportunity presents itself. His defense, lead left hands(almost a B-hop lead, without the holding), body shots, hooks. I mean he's not as good in the Morales rematch but the skills he has shown last Saturday were very good and are in the making of a very complete and intelligent fighter. There are a lot of fighters who started the same way. What do you think? Can he be a very good boxer like B-Hop or even MAB under Roach's guidance? or is he a different breed and can be greater?

---

Ok, this is actually a good question. I'll admit, that despite being Filipino, I was at first, skeptical about Manny. He didn't have what we call, fundamental boxing skills (like most of the Filipino boxers). He would swing wildly, looking for a KO punch. When Roach came around, he was refined. He started to use more of his jab, set up combos, and even work the body.

Yes, Manny is one the way to becoming a more complete fighter. IMO, he still lacks some defense. One of his weaknesses, (and there are a few), is hi tendency to, how should I say, "show off" in the middle of the fight. In his fights with Morales, when he got hit with a clean shot, he would raise his arms and show that he wasn't hurt. Nothing wrong with that, but for me, that leaves you open. I mean, if Manny pulled that off against a Floyd Mayweather type, he'd be eating a one-two combo in an instant. If Manny really wants to improve, he has to improve his defense A LOT.

With this in mind, I think it's way to early to start thinking about comparing the Pacman to B-Hop. Hopkins was something else. he had great boxing skills, and some of the best defense on the planet. Manny isn't even close, YET. And as for the comparisons to Hopkins' lead left, we have to remember Manny is a southpaw. We can't compare his left to B-Hop's. A better comparsion would be to notice if Manny was leading with his right.

If Manny really dedicates himself, he canr eally improve. But he won't be a true complete boxer. Manny is a puncher at heart, and so are most of the guys trained by Roach (anyone remember Tyson?). But he can still improve and may be one of the best Featherweights of all time.

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You cannot compare Manny to B-Hop, complete different styles. B-Hop is a counter puncher and Manny is an aggressor. Taking the aggression away from Manny takes away from his defense. The opposition cannot be offensive because of Manny's aggression. Fortunately, Manny has power which helps but if he fights too passive, he will lose. This is why Freddie Roach is the perfect trainer, he uses Manny's punching power and quickness to his advantage. In Manny's weight class, there are no other fighters with his power. Manny just needs to work on foot work and learning to slide side to side. Once he develops his footwork, he will be unstoppable. It took him 4 rounds in his fight with Larios to understand that as long as he moves side to side he will keep his opponent off balance and then he can unload his punches.

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Agreed, it would be wrong to compare B-Hop to Manny. But take note, we're talking about how Manny can become a COMPLETE fighter. Granted, Manny has always been a puncher and is always on the attack. With that in mind, how Manny be called "complete" is he doesn't have any defense? True, he keeps on the attack preventing opponents from mounting offense, but the question is, when opponents get on the offensive, does Manny have the skills to defend himself on the level of B-hop or Floyd?


Granted, Manny is a great fighter, but looking back at the topic of this thread, he's ways off from a COMPLETE fighter.

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Originally Posted by jontabs

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Originally Posted by BUTU

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Originally Posted by jontabs

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

Adter wathcing pac-larios, I am sensing a change/improvement in Manny's style. He does not go ouot for that knockout early, but will if the opportunity presents itself. His defense, lead left hands(almost a B-hop lead, without the holding), body shots, hooks. I mean he's not as good in the Morales rematch but the skills he has shown last Saturday were very good and are in the making of a very complete and intelligent fighter. There are a lot of fighters who started the same way. What do you think? Can he be a very good boxer like B-Hop or even MAB under Roach's guidance? or is he a different breed and can be greater?

---

Ok, this is actually a good question. I'll admit, that despite being Filipino, I was at first, skeptical about Manny. He didn't have what we call, fundamental boxing skills (like most of the Filipino boxers). He would swing wildly, looking for a KO punch. When Roach came around, he was refined. He started to use more of his jab, set up combos, and even work the body.

Yes, Manny is one the way to becoming a more complete fighter. IMO, he still lacks some defense. One of his weaknesses, (and there are a few), is hi tendency to, how should I say, "show off" in the middle of the fight. In his fights with Morales, when he got hit with a clean shot, he would raise his arms and show that he wasn't hurt. Nothing wrong with that, but for me, that leaves you open. I mean, if Manny pulled that off against a Floyd Mayweather type, he'd be eating a one-two combo in an instant. If Manny really wants to improve, he has to improve his defense A LOT.

With this in mind, I think it's way to early to start thinking about comparing the Pacman to B-Hop. Hopkins was something else. he had great boxing skills, and some of the best defense on the planet. Manny isn't even close, YET. And as for the comparisons to Hopkins' lead left, we have to remember Manny is a southpaw. We can't compare his left to B-Hop's. A better comparsion would be to notice if Manny was leading with his right.

If Manny really dedicates himself, he canr eally improve. But he won't be a true complete boxer. Manny is a puncher at heart, and so are most of the guys trained by Roach (anyone remember Tyson?). But he can still improve and may be one of the best Featherweights of all time.

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You cannot compare Manny to B-Hop, complete different styles. B-Hop is a counter puncher and Manny is an aggressor. Taking the aggression away from Manny takes away from his defense. The opposition cannot be offensive because of Manny's aggression. Fortunately, Manny has power which helps but if he fights too passive, he will lose. This is why Freddie Roach is the perfect trainer, he uses Manny's punching power and quickness to his advantage. In Manny's weight class, there are no other fighters with his power. Manny just needs to work on foot work and learning to slide side to side. Once he develops his footwork, he will be unstoppable. It took him 4 rounds in his fight with Larios to understand that as long as he moves side to side he will keep his opponent off balance and then he can unload his punches.

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Agreed, it would be wrong to compare B-Hop to Manny. But take note, we're talking about how Manny can become a COMPLETE fighter. Granted, Manny has always been a puncher and is always on the attack. With that in mind, how Manny be called "complete" is he doesn't have any defense? True, he keeps on the attack preventing opponents from mounting offense, but the question is, when opponents get on the offensive, does Manny have the skills to defend himself on the level of B-hop or Floyd?


Granted, Manny is a great fighter, but looking back at the topic of this thread, he's ways off from a COMPLETE fighter.

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This will all depend on what a complete fighter is to you. Rocky Marciano was 48 and zero with no defense, pure power and a chin and he was considered one of the greatest fighters. Manny has all the tools needed in his weight class to justify that he is a complete fighter. His most recent loss was to EM after EM studied the Marquez fight. He fought a smart fight by not fighting his style and he won but when he fought Manny the second time and EM decided to fight his old style, he got beat up. So really, styles make the fight. Manny will lose only by points because a smart fighter will not brawl with him. We need to accept Manny as a fighter not a boxer. The only thing Manny needs to do is develop a right hand lead and keep moving side to side. Remember, you can teach someone to box but you cannot teach POWER.

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Originally Posted by BUTU

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Originally Posted by jontabs

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Originally Posted by BUTU

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Originally Posted by jontabs

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

Adter wathcing pac-larios, I am sensing a change/improvement in Manny's style. He does not go ouot for that knockout early, but will if the opportunity presents itself. His defense, lead left hands(almost a B-hop lead, without the holding), body shots, hooks. I mean he's not as good in the Morales rematch but the skills he has shown last Saturday were very good and are in the making of a very complete and intelligent fighter. There are a lot of fighters who started the same way. What do you think? Can he be a very good boxer like B-Hop or even MAB under Roach's guidance? or is he a different breed and can be greater?

---

Ok, this is actually a good question. I'll admit, that despite being Filipino, I was at first, skeptical about Manny. He didn't have what we call, fundamental boxing skills (like most of the Filipino boxers). He would swing wildly, looking for a KO punch. When Roach came around, he was refined. He started to use more of his jab, set up combos, and even work the body.

Yes, Manny is one the way to becoming a more complete fighter. IMO, he still lacks some defense. One of his weaknesses, (and there are a few), is hi tendency to, how should I say, "show off" in the middle of the fight. In his fights with Morales, when he got hit with a clean shot, he would raise his arms and show that he wasn't hurt. Nothing wrong with that, but for me, that leaves you open. I mean, if Manny pulled that off against a Floyd Mayweather type, he'd be eating a one-two combo in an instant. If Manny really wants to improve, he has to improve his defense A LOT.

With this in mind, I think it's way to early to start thinking about comparing the Pacman to B-Hop. Hopkins was something else. he had great boxing skills, and some of the best defense on the planet. Manny isn't even close, YET. And as for the comparisons to Hopkins' lead left, we have to remember Manny is a southpaw. We can't compare his left to B-Hop's. A better comparsion would be to notice if Manny was leading with his right.

If Manny really dedicates himself, he canr eally improve. But he won't be a true complete boxer. Manny is a puncher at heart, and so are most of the guys trained by Roach (anyone remember Tyson?). But he can still improve and may be one of the best Featherweights of all time.

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You cannot compare Manny to B-Hop, complete different styles. B-Hop is a counter puncher and Manny is an aggressor. Taking the aggression away from Manny takes away from his defense. The opposition cannot be offensive because of Manny's aggression. Fortunately, Manny has power which helps but if he fights too passive, he will lose. This is why Freddie Roach is the perfect trainer, he uses Manny's punching power and quickness to his advantage. In Manny's weight class, there are no other fighters with his power. Manny just needs to work on foot work and learning to slide side to side. Once he develops his footwork, he will be unstoppable. It took him 4 rounds in his fight with Larios to understand that as long as he moves side to side he will keep his opponent off balance and then he can unload his punches.

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Agreed, it would be wrong to compare B-Hop to Manny. But take note, we're talking about how Manny can become a COMPLETE fighter. Granted, Manny has always been a puncher and is always on the attack. With that in mind, how Manny be called "complete" is he doesn't have any defense? True, he keeps on the attack preventing opponents from mounting offense, but the question is, when opponents get on the offensive, does Manny have the skills to defend himself on the level of B-hop or Floyd?


Granted, Manny is a great fighter, but looking back at the topic of this thread, he's ways off from a COMPLETE fighter.

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This will all depend on what a complete fighter is to you. Rocky Marciano was 48 and zero with no defense, pure power and a chin and he was considered one of the greatest fighters. Manny has all the tools needed in his weight class to justify that he is a complete fighter. His most recent loss was to EM after EM studied the Marquez fight. He fought a smart fight by not fighting his style and he won but when he fought Manny the second time and EM decided to fight his old style, he got beat up. So really, styles make the fight. Manny will lose only by points because a smart fighter will not brawl with him. We need to accept Manny as a fighter not a boxer. The only thing Manny needs to do is develop a right hand lead and keep moving side to side. Remember, you can teach someone to box but you cannot teach POWER.

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Iget your point BUTU. But like you said, Marciano had power and a great chin, that's why he was one of the GREATEST fighters of all time. But no one is saying he's a complete fighter. Same thing with Manny. He a GREAT fighter right now, and that's enough for him to dominate his division, but he's not a complete fighter yet.

In his last fight against Larios, he showed that he can counter effectively; he can hit and run, or hit and spin; he can block shots, and bob and weave to evade them; and he can dance a bit too. But I think he needs to work on his defense more to be a more complete fighter - he still gets hit just a bit too much for the comfort of his fans. If he perfect his defense moves, I think he'll be unbeatable.