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I know that MAB won the trilogy even though all of the fights were very competitive. But if EM whens the trilogy against Pacman I think his legacy will go down slightly above MAB. Either way both will be HOF but the difference between the two will be decided in this next fight.
I think if Morales wins his legacy will obviously be better than if he doesnt but i dont think he could reach the legacy of MAB. The three fights they had determined who would have the better legacy.
i wouldn't look at it by the trilogy fight they had...all those were close fights just proving how equel they are...more people like mab I think that would affect him having the better legacy...but I always thought em was better and braver...em is fighting pac for the third time...now that would boot him above mah...because unlike mab, em choose to face his destroyer...and show the fans a great fight even though he'll lose...mab rather not take the beating instead just fade away...not go out a warrior like em will.......
so i say em will have the better legacy with two trilogys with pac and mab...
Barrera for me, he has been fighting at world class longer than Morales, and thus has met better overall opposition for a longer period of time; here is where I place them in Mexico's all-time list:
10 Erik Morales
9 Vicente Saldivar
8 Lupe Pintor
7 Salvador Sanchez
6 Marco Antonio Barrera
5 Jose Napoles (Adopted Mexico as his own country; Cuban by birth)
4 Ricardo Lopez
3 Ruben Olivares
2 Carlos Zarate
1 Julio Cesar Chavez
Mentions to: Humberto Gonzales, Miguel Canto, Rodolfo Martinez, Alfonso Zamora, Daniel Zaragoza, Joe Rivers, Baby Arizmendi, Chalky Wright, Manuel Medina, Rafael Limon, Jose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Castillo.
CC for all of you. I just think that it depends on the Pac fight, but we shall see
Barrera.
Barrera will go down with the better record...unless Morales just destroys Pac this go around & then fights some other top billers.
they are both already legends at such a young age. so i guess it comes down to personal preference. i personally prefer MAB to EM just based on everything over all.
Barerra will have the greatest legacy IMO, unless Morales can pull off an astounding final act as his career comes to a close...
:newdb: :beerchug: :juggle: :jester::banana:MANNY PACQUIAO!!!!!!!!!!!! :banana: :band: :play: :nopity:
Barerra will win the legacy but Morales will have another legacy that will probably tie Barerra's legacy. It's like Hopkins and Roy Jones.
You are a bit confused!! ;D This thread aint talking about Pac's legacy (as good as it might become)...Quote:
Originally Posted by pacmans_fan
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
:coolclick:
Well said your Majesty.
Both are legends no matter what but I think historically,MAB will be looked at more favourably not just because of the trilogy but also because of the longer career,the way he reinvented himself as a defensive fighter etc etc. Even though I prefer EM,he has gone slightly downhill whereas whenever someone wrote off MAB(countless times)he came back again.However,I think it is so close,wherever you have the name MAB,you must have EM very close by.
Barrera will have the better legacy.
He evolved as his career went on
Morales got worse
Barrera learnt from his defeats
Morales didnt
Barrera has longevity
Morales already looks faded even though he is the younger man
Barrera was already world champ before Erik was on the scene
Plus Barrera won the trilogy 2-1 ( should have won the 1st fight too )
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I'm totally not confused i'm just teasing the people here brother..:cooldevil:
MAB, for his ability to change his style IMO>
Barerra is the higher profile fighter...He has been fighting the elite longer than Morales....If Morales does win the trilogy against Pac it wont make his legacy better than Barerras it will just increase Morales...If he loses it will just add to Pac's...( if that makes any sense...few things in boxing do these days )...Also Barerra never lost to someone the caliber of Raheem....Fans can be very unforgiving your losses at times are more important than your wins
Barrerra has the greater legacy IMO.
Barrera
And when its all said and done, Emw ill be close but not near enough and Pac wont come close to Barrera
When you talk to average people, like to my freinds, who dont really know boxing, they all know Marco Antonio Barrera, only some know Eric Morales, hardley anyone knows Pac.
Barrera will go down as one of the sports greatest ever......
Definately :coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
I think Barrera has the better legacy... He beat Hamed, He beat Morales out their fights, and is the bigger name IMO... He is the one people are competing with JCC for being Mexico's ATG not Morales.
CC TaethQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
He will go down as superb fighter, but Great?Quote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
That is abuse of the G word...
IMO 20 fighers who are not Great are ahead of him in the all-time list.
I doubt MAB will ever be considered Great by the majority of the boxing community.
Sorry, despite being a huge Barrera fan, even if I hated him purely on his career. I would brand him an all time great, one of the greatest fighters to ever walk into the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by BK
He dominated his division, fought the best, multiple world champion, and had some of the greatest fights ever.
What else would he have to do to be great?
CC backQuote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
He has had excellent career no doubt, at or near the top of his divsions for 12 years...Quote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
Only World Champion once, when he beat Naseem.
But that is because of boxing politics and that in itself does not disqualify him from being Great IMO.
The one primary quality he does lack is redemption, he failed to comeback and beat either Junior Jones or Manny Pacquiao.
You cannot be Great IMO without redeeming yourself sometime in your career; it is a prerequisite.
Hes been a World Champion more than once!
but fair enough for your opinions.
So who is great?
Imo he did beat Jones in the rematch but didnt get the decision
He avenged the Morales loss officially ( if you can call it a loss )
and I think before he retires he'l take on and beat Pac
He was only World Champion when he beat Naseem, who was Featherweight Champion of the World, an unbroken line going back to 1982.Quote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
All other world titles Barrera won, are just that, world titles, not The World Championship. ;)
As for who is Great? Well IMO, there are 35 Great fighters, they are:
35 Roy Jones (-1)
34 George Foreman (-1)
33 Joe Gans (-1)
32 Ruben Olivares (-2)
31 Thomas Hearns (N/C)
30 Marvin Hagler (-1)
29 Joe Louis (-1)
28 Gene Tunney (-9)
27 George Dixon (-1)
26 Eder Jofre (-1)
25 Carlos Zarate (-1)
24 Alexis Arguello (-1)
23 Pernell Whitaker (-1)
22 Oscar de la Hoya (-1)
21 Pancho Villa (+6)
20 Bob Fitzsimmons (-3)
19 Stanley Ketchel (-3)
18 Harry Grebb (+2)
17 Ezzard Charles (+1)
16 Benny Leonard (-5)
15 Julio Cesar Chavez (N/C)
14 Mickey Walker (Disgracefully, a New entrant)
13 Ray Leonard (+1)
12 Carlos Monzon (+1)
11 Muhammad Ali (+1)
10 Charley Burley (-7)
9 Archie Moore (+1)
8 Jimmy Wilde (+1)
7 Willie Pep (N/C)
6 Sandy Sadler (N/C)
5 Georges Carpentier (+3)
4 Roberto Duran (+1)
3 Sammy Langford (-1)
2 Henry Armstrong (+2)
1 Ray Robinson (N/C)
There was no redemption in any of the Morales fights. They were three very close fights in which either fighter could of won any of the three. For the record I had it 3-0 MAB, but each fight, by two points or less ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
I am a MAB fan, but even I cannot say MAB won the Jones rematch with a straight face... even if you had it fairly close,the point deduction for Barrera, comfirms Junior Jones' win IMO.
One of the judges scored a round 10-8 for Barrera even without a knock down , which was a sign of how much he was dominating .Quote:
Originally Posted by BK
I also scored it 3- 0 against Morales
Great List CC!
BUT
If you say he didnt avenge losses, and you need to do that to be a great, Why is Oscar and Pernell Whittaker there?
(they are great I might add but they didnt avenge losses. Albeit Pernell was finished, but Oscar twice to Moseley, albeit again controversial, but still in the record books he lost, so in your words earlier, how can he be a great?)
Whitaker revenged the Ramirez defeat. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
Oscar de la Hoya/Mosley were two excellent bouts, Mosley sneaked the first, DLH won the second ;)
To be less flippant...
Redemption is not the only quality, all I ask is fighters show the quality. Whitaker showed it by rising from knockdowns to beat Mayweather and Vazquez, and showing despite being way past his best, he can compete with a de la Hoya.
de la Hoya has shown time and again you write him off at your own peril. He was meant to be the Golden Boy when he went the Olympics, and he has lived up to hype. Very few fighters can do that, indeed post 70 perhaps only Ray Leonard and Oscar have. I know the likes of Breland, Banks, Reid and Tarver have all failed, quite badly.
de la Hoya had the sort pressure on him from day one, that perhaps MAB only felt when he fought Junior Jones and the Mexicans were hoping he could become the new Chavez...
No Oscar lost Both
Check the record books....
And Pernell to Tito and Oscar?
What are talking about MAB/Jones or MAB/Morales?Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
I do not remember MAB winning a round 10/8 against Jones, he may of sneak one 10/8 in possibly the first Morales fight. But like I said, I had MAB winning all three fights anyway.
I do not think we have debated beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
;) means tongue in cheek... Normally ;)
But he lost....
He didnt avenge the defeates, on his record, which your record is key to being a great, he lost twice to Moseley
And trinidad, but dont get me started, it makes me sad :(
Morales will have the greatest legacy. Barrera losses to Jones and Pac stand out. Morales holds a win over Pac and he destroyed Jones. The 3 fights were all close. But I personally had it 2-0-1 for Morales.
But that is the point, the record books show one thing, your eyes another.Quote:
Originally Posted by B@rr3r@
And as anyones all-time list is a matter of opinion, you are perfectly entitled to put your own opinion into interpreting fight results, to create your list.
What fights were you watching! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise