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Ok the old boxer vs mma thread has been beat to death, but I can't sleep tonight and I've had something on my mind. Tim Sylvia is pretty much avg boxer masquerading as a MMA fighter. He has no ground game and other than an occasional knee and leg kick soley uses his fists. The question is...if Tim were to fight Wlad in the octagon tomorrow with Wlad having no mma training who would win? Remeber all of the MMA rules apply and its in the octagon with five 5 minute rounds.
Wlad or Tim?? Wlad. Tim is a bad example.
Try someone like Arlovski from UFC. Everyone from the Pride HW division would take out any HW boxer easily with MMA rules.
obviously all of Prides top hws would win in a mma fight, but I picked Tim b/c he was somewhat one dimensional.
Which is why the likes of Wlad would destroy him.
Thats a good question.Only way Tim would win is if wlad got caught my a head kick or if it went to the ground and sylvia showed a little bit of superiority. Having said this if they did fight Tim (despite just being a boxer really) would take him to the ground because at least he knows he has an edge on him there.
No way would hstand and trade with a professional heavyweight boxer.
If i pushed for an answer i would say Wlad
IMO, any mma fighter who tries to stand there and trade punches with a pro boxer is a going-down fool. Boxers are the most skilled strikers in the world, BAR NONE.
ofcourse I disagree with this somewhat by Von. As I've said before comparing boxing and mma striking is like comparing throwing a football and a baseball. Same basic concept but completely technically different. The effect of the smaller gloves is much more devastating etc etc. None of the boxers I've seen in K1 have been very effective. I use K1 as an example b/c there is no ground fighting and depending on who you are fighting there isn't always alot of kicks either. Both Botha and Mercer were beaten pretty soundly. Skelton has also been beaten all be it by sumbission in Pride. In a stand up war I'm going to give a good power punching boxer the edge but not by a land slide....by the way yall feel the same way if we sub Wlad for Peter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
I have to say that for stand up striking, there isnt a K1 fighter out there that can out-box a Pro Fighter....Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
For one thing, K1 fghters flailing their punches, not throwing for alot of effect....
Now as for going up against a K1 Fighter in a Match, I would have to give it to the Boxer...
Our power in awesome, Our defense is increddible, our speed is unbloackable...(Trying hard to sound like Tyson....HAHAHA)
Make K1 Fighters fight 10 rounds and they couldnt do it....
then why haven't they done well against K1 fighters? Botha and Mercer got stomped on
mercer is 110 years old and that other guy is dead. :o
I'm pretty sure that Botha was not a corpse at the time. The point is they were world class boxers and got beat up in K1. Why is it so hard to except that boxing skills taken out of a boxing ring are not the end all be all of stand up fighting? Are the probably the most real world applicable sure...are they a great corner stone to have in MMA absolutley. But I dont think there is a direct correlation between great boxing skill and great mma standup. If so I think we would have seen more fringe boxers attempt to fight in K1 and other MMA orgs.
Tim would most likely take wlad down cos he will know his handicap.
any pride hw will defeat any hw boxer...most likely!
Matt Skelton got KTFO clean by Jerome LeBanner in K-1, and not by leg kicks either, clean knockout. Aye the same Matt whose currently one of UK's HW prospects ;D
Boxers going over to mma haven't done good, but mma fighters going over to boxing have also not done good
Botha might not be doing good in mma but he is facing very good competition, remy bonjasky twice, Cyril Abdi twice, Mighty Mo, and he did beat Jerome Le Banner and Peter Aerts.
Mighty Mo who beat Botha by tko in 1 in K-1,lost his boxing pro debut to Lamar Stephens who is nothing special.
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=356526
Ray Sefo who was very good in K-1 lost by tko in 1 round in his fifth boxing fight to a guy that lost to Otis Tisdale.
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=032491
Vitor Belfort who I think has some boxing experience might be different than most mma fighters that he can compete with world class fighters in boxing, but i'am not sure if he will continue with boxing since he went back to pride after his pro debut.
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=352247
here is a video of Vitor Belfort's pro debut,but the guy he is fighting looks like a bum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDvVRtMUu38
you'll get no argument out of me at how bad almost all mma fighters would get thrashed by a good boxer in a boxing match. My argument was simply that the skills learned in boxing dont transition seemelessly over to MMA striking.
I agree with you that striking in mma is not just boxing, but i was just stating that boxers don't do good in mma and also mma fighters don't do good in boxing and my post wasn't a response to anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
what did you think of Vitor Belfort boxing?
Virot has potential but I think its too late in the game for him to be a legit boxing champ. He supposedly had a decent amateur career right before he started in MMA. I've heard he was close to trying to represent Brazil in the olympics back in the early 90's. Great hand speed good power, but I doubt he could become disciplined enough to learn how to avoid getting hit.
Botha, Mercer!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Need I say more????
ROFLMAO!!
Good Luck,
Coach
IMO Peter would do well in MMA standing up. His chin is nearly Iron, and he hits very very hard. One thing thats buggin me is MMA snobs actin like Pride is SOOOOO superior to UFC. Guess what? It ain't. The top fighters in pride are very good, and there are more of them than in UFC, but a lot of the time they are fighting weak Japanese competition. Liddell would be a match for Silva no doubt IMO, despite losing to Rampage Jackson. And Arlovski would be tuff for the russian bros. and Mirko Cro Cop. Matt Hughes would probably beat their best Welter to Middleweight as well.
Guess what, it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
If theirs more TOP fighters in UFC maybe you wouldnt mind making a list of them.Quote:
The top fighters in pride are very good, and there are more of them than in UFC,
Heres some of Prides top fighters that come to mind
Fedor Emelianenko
Rodrigo Nogueira
Rogerio Nogueria
Mirko Crocop
Josh Barnett
Mark Hunt
Alexander Emelianenko
Sergei Kharitonov
Yoshida
Fabricio Werdum
Roman Zentsov
Alistair Overeem
Wanderlei Silva
Mauricio Shogun
Ricardo Arona
Nakamura
Dan Henderson
Murilo Bustamante
Paulo Filho
Dennis Kang
Ninja Rua
Amar Suleov
Chonan
Baroni
Gomi
Marcus Aurelio
Khawijiri
Joachim Hansen
Sakurai
Luiz Azeredo
Edson Drago
Yuki Kondo
That above is a very deep talent pool they have in Pride, which is why they are considered to be way ahead of UFC.
Not true. Even though it is a Japanese based organisation, it has fighters from many nationalities, and the Japanese fighters that do compete, ie Nakamura, Yoshida etc are not considered WEAK at all.Quote:
but a lot of the time they are fighting weak Japanese competition.
Agreed. Lidell can hang with most of the LHW in Pride. The most he has ever been troubled by fighters have been in Pride, ie Guy Mezger, Overeem and Jackson with only losing to Jackson. In UFC lidell has walked through whoever has been put infront of him and has only ever been troubled ONCE by Randy.Quote:
Liddell would be a match for Silva no doubt IMO, despite losing to Rampage Jackson.
Arlovski would have to get through the other HW before he could think about Emelianenko and Crocop. Pedro Rizzo destroyed Arlovski and Josh Barnett also back in UFC, and many expected Rizzo to be a force to be reckoned with in Pride FC, Sergei Kharitonov and Zentsov both showed the Calibre of HW fighters in Pride FC is way above any other MMA organisation.Quote:
And Arlovski would be tuff for the russian bros. and Mirko Cro Cop.
Matt would pose problems to their Middleweights if he moved up in weight but it wouldnt be a stroll in the park for him. I can also see Franklin being able to establish himself, maybe even holding the belt in Pride FC.Quote:
Matt Hughes would probably beat their best Welter to Middleweight as well.
The lightweights in UFC (Pulver,Yves Edwards), well lets just say they got demolished in Pride FC and decided to return back to UFC, most of those lightweights in Pride being japanese who you considered as being weak opposition.
UFC does have its top calibre fighters but u could count them on ur hand. Most of their new up and coming fighters are all TUF fighters who are hardly a threat to fighters of the calibre of lidell and so on. Which is why all we see is Lidell couture 3 Sylvia Arlovski 3 etc.
To me its obvious that Pride is deeper in talent, but it does get old listening to people trash talk on UFC constantly. They are a regional org building itself up with local raw talent. They put on good shows and have top level champions. I don't know why there is so much contention between some people about the two orgs. Have you every looked at sherdog's forum? Those guys spend pages and pages talking shit about the two org. It absurd.
A+Quote:
Originally Posted by Emelianenko
What Emelianenko said was right on the money, but unnecessary
We all know not to take Hulk seriously :)
b/c the UFC has a shallow talent pool in the upper divisions. and how Kenny florian, who couldn't beat up a little girl, got there is beyond me. I can take him. he got lucky to make the tuf final with an elbow to that moron with the red lid. leben.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
matt skelton who is ruling the british hw divison, well was... got KTFO by lebanner with punches, don king wanted lebanner to box for him,
Well personally i enjoy watching all MMA, be it from UFC, Pride FC, K-1 Heros, Shooto, but i think with the new TUF fans all this talk about which org is superior has sprung up, and its only when new TUF fans make silly comments that ya gonna get reactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Its same with boxing fans reacting to silly comments, wasnt their a whole thread on how Amir Khan said he would take out PBF in a 4rounder, didnt ppl post and laught it off and make sure they made it clear what kinda bullshit Amir and his followers are talking???
Thats more or less why ya getting ppl flaming away cus sum new TUF fan will come on the scene and make comments like "F.Emelianenko is not no1 cus hes not proven it, and he hardly fights and oh well hes not the top fighter yet, its Rashad evans ::**"
Yeah, I know, I've only been watching UFC since the very first one ever over a decade ago. Seen the rise and fall of Dan "the beast" Severn, Maurice Smith, Mark "the Hammer" Coleman, Vitor Belfort, etc. I will guranfukintee I know more about UFC and MMA in general than your condescending little ass. MMA is my second favorite sport, Boxing is my first by a long shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Once again, I don't take you seriously :)
That's because you seriously take it up the ass! :) :doggy: :bananasex:Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Listen buddy, being a condscending jerk is not a good attribute. Don't pretend you know more about MMA than me, or start shat with me when I wasn't even talking to you.
you guys sound like strahan and arnold. lol.
Coming to this conclusion about someone you've had a few words with on a forum..... well once again it's very hard to take you seriously :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
and my dad can beat up your dad :boxing:
who are these strahan and arnold characters, they sound like good ppl :|Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
careful Raleights....
Don't make him angry...
You woulnd't like him when he's angry
who was the other kid, he had the nickname young tyson...claimed he was a cousin or something? he tried out in K-1 and lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
true, for example the training stuff from bas rutten, you are more square on in mma because of a couple reasons, if your leg is turned out to the side like a boxer, you can't kick with it and you can't defend that leg against kicks, next point look at the grappling arts square on also means you can grab, throw, sprawl etc, can't do that if you're side on.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Didn't you read, my dad can beat up his dad!Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky
::**Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights