Ali would DEFINATLY have beaten a prime tyson ....why i know now??

I was watching on YOUTUBE a 40 yr old Larry holmes for the 1st 2 rounds look good against mike early(when Mr.Tyson is supposed to be his best)

Anyway Larry was very awkward for tyson and was quite good at throwing those 1-2s and sidestepping ...if a 40 yr old holmes (who was a poor mans Ali to begin with)
can look good against tyson for a few minutes i KNOW Ali at ALMOST any age woulda one-two-step'ed his way to victory


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlfs2...larry%20holmes <--clip i was watchin

...Hell just watch Ali-Patterson, same style, same hand speed...granted Floyd didn't have Mike's power but Ali dominated that style

I doubt many educated boxing fans would argue against Ali beating a prime Tyson.

He beat the two baddest men on the planet in the 60's and 70's namely Liston and Foreman, both of whom were considered unbeatable.

Tyson's biggest weapon in the 80's was the aura of invincibility and menace that he carried, which had 85% of his opponents beat before they even climbed inside the ropes.

If there is one man who you could guarantee would not be afraid it would Ali. Furthermore, if there was ever a heavyweight boxer who knew the power of psychology and could unnerve and intimidate an opponent into losing their own confidence it was once again Ali.

Ali would have given Tyson a derogatory nickname, ' probably ugly bear's little brother or something, he would taunt and ridicule Tyson during the build up to the fight, and no doubt mouth off and mock him throughout the whole fight itself, causing Tyson to breakdown mentally and then collapse physically.

It would have been a great matchup, Tyson probably being punched out around the 10th or 11th round, kind of like the way Buster Douglas did it.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

...Hell just watch Ali-Patterson, same style, same hand speed...granted Floyd didn't have Mike's power but Ali dominated that style

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Little but unfair on old Iron Mike. Although both used peek-a-boo, Tyson was lot lower to the ground than Floyd, and rarely jumped into his punches like Patterson.

And on top of this Ali would have to respect that Tyson left hook, possibly in his prime, even better than his right. It was better than Frazier's, Cooper's and Banks'...

Bu that said Ali still wins IMO. ;)

I think Ali would have a 65% chance of winning and Tyson a 35% chance. Ali wins a UD. Tyson wins by KO.

They are fighting a 12 round bout to level the playing field.


I think Tyson would shit on Frazier, Liston, and Patterson. Liston being the harder of the three for him to beat. Young Tyson was a characterization of those three. If you rolled them into one fighter and tied a cape around his neck you'd get Prime Tyson

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Originally Posted by bilbo

Ali would have given Tyson a derogatory nickname, ' probably ugly bear's little brother or something, he would taunt and ridicule Tyson during the build up to the fight, and no doubt mouth off and mock him throughout the whole fight itself, causing Tyson to breakdown mentally and then collapse physically.

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Then Ali would have gotten his ear bitten off sometime in the middle rounds. ;D ;D ;D

Yeah I guess while O'l Larry was doing the 2 step by round 4 he was doing the Judah shuffle....To me the beauty of the 4th round was that sizzling jab, straight right that put Larry down the 1st time..That was the great Mike, had it all working back then headmovement was spectacular and working off the Jab with helacious combos.....then he turned into a one punch headhunter :-[

Thats a lesson that Jeff Lacy hopefully learned from the JC fight headmovement Jab and Box Oh!! and defend yourself Too :thumb:

Any announcement on Jeff's opponent in October..Still talking bout Tarver??

if joe frazier's left hook could really hurt Ali and knock him down, don't you think Mike would give him the fight of his life?.....Remember, it's not just Tyson's left hook but also his right that's a very dangerous weapon too. People forget how good Tyson was in those days.
No way in hell Ali would be able to use the ropeadope on Tyson.

tyson would have given ali problems at the very least and probably would have stopped him............the frazier fights are more analogous and relevantt han foreman and liston....george and sonny were straight ahead bombers with little head and upper body movement.........frazier was very herky jerky and moved his head and uppr body well and was able to get inside on ali and hurt him...........tyson was even quicker and more athletic than frazier and a harder puncher--and also was much better at working the body than joe...he would have broke ali down early and starched him late............

as far as 40 yr old holmes ( he was 38 or 39 by the way, actually) giving mike trouble---what fight were you watching? mike was just biding his time looking for an pen spot to nail larry---and he did....he beat holmes's ass and larry, even later on into his 40's never got licked so bad or even close....that fight was a fuckin massacre and if larry was 5 or 6 yrs younger it would have been the same outcome---------ktfo

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I doubt many educated boxing fans would argue against Ali beating a prime Tyson.

He beat the two baddest men on the planet in the 60's and 70's namely Liston and Foreman, both of whom were considered unbeatable.

Tyson's biggest weapon in the 80's was the aura of invincibility and menace that he carried, which had 85% of his opponents beat before they even climbed inside the ropes.

If there is one man who you could guarantee would not be afraid it would Ali. Furthermore, if there was ever a heavyweight boxer who knew the power of psychology and could unnerve and intimidate an opponent into losing their own confidence it was once again Ali.

Ali would have given Tyson a derogatory nickname, ' probably ugly bear's little brother or something, he would taunt and ridicule Tyson during the build up to the fight, and no doubt mouth off and mock him throughout the whole fight itself, causing Tyson to breakdown mentally and then collapse physically.

It would have been a great matchup, Tyson probably being punched out around the 10th or 11th round, kind of like the way Buster Douglas did it.

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I agree about your thoughts on how Ali would psychologically beat TYSON very true..

Tyson was a better fighter then Foreman, Liston, Patterson, Frazier and Norton. A young Tyson had all the tools to beat any heavyweight in history. His handspeed and power in both hands was frightening along with a great defence which is very overated. I think Mike could beat Ali.

I always had a prime Tyson beating a prime Ali simply cause a prime Ali relied on physical ability like Roy Jones Jr. I have a experience Ali beating and a prime Tyson cause he would of relied on wits instead of reflex unlike Roy Jones Ali had a back up plan once his reflex slowed.

So a prime Ali would of relied on pulling back from Tyson punches and Tyson would of caught up to Ali in the later rounds (or maybe in the beginning). An Ali with some experience would of done better cause he would of used his mind.

And we all know their is no such thing as an experience Tyson cause a prime Tyson died in his prime.

For the record when Ali fought Patterson, Patterson was being trained by Cus and I believe that makes a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by kyle0930

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I doubt many educated boxing fans would argue against Ali beating a prime Tyson.

He beat the two baddest men on the planet in the 60's and 70's namely Liston and Foreman, both of whom were considered unbeatable.

Tyson's biggest weapon in the 80's was the aura of invincibility and menace that he carried, which had 85% of his opponents beat before they even climbed inside the ropes.

If there is one man who you could guarantee would not be afraid it would Ali. Furthermore, if there was ever a heavyweight boxer who knew the power of psychology and could unnerve and intimidate an opponent into losing their own confidence it was once again Ali.

Ali would have given Tyson a derogatory nickname, ' probably ugly bear's little brother or something, he would taunt and ridicule Tyson during the build up to the fight, and no doubt mouth off and mock him throughout the whole fight itself, causing Tyson to breakdown mentally and then collapse physically.

It would have been a great matchup, Tyson probably being punched out around the 10th or 11th round, kind of like the way Buster Douglas did it.

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I agree about your thoughts on how Ali would psychologically beat TYSON very true..

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i don't agree at all, the shit talk would actually spur him on...
Larry Holmes did his trash talk and got Ktfo, and Tyson despised Tyrell Biggs too......and let me tell you the Tyson that fought Tyrell Biggs was the best Mike Tyson that ever fought. He was one of the most complete fighters for a heavyweight i have ever seen.
There is no evidence that Mike would break down or "collapse physically"......it would do the complete opposite.

i agree that the whole 'psychological' idea is a load of b*ll*cks! Before the Spinks fight, Spinks' team had the referee make team tyson unwrap and re-wrap his handwraps for a minor lump had been found. The spinks team hoped this would unnerve Tyson. It did however backfire, as was seen in the 1st round blitzing of spinks, when rather than breakdown, tyson got very angry. Ali taunting tyson wud only make Tyson hungrier and more intent on causing damage, not knock away his cofidence.

ali has a great chin--never been ko'd--however his shadow was tko by holmes in 11--a prime ali could beat a prime tyson --cuz quick tillis survived a prime tyson--ali woud dance around and jab at tysons face all night--turing tysons face into pancake batter--ali would bang out a ud --not easily though

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Originally Posted by means2184

I was watching on YOUTUBE a 40 yr old Larry holmes for the 1st 2 rounds look good against mike early(when Mr.Tyson is supposed to be his best)

Anyway Larry was very awkward for tyson and was quite good at throwing those 1-2s and sidestepping ...if a 40 yr old holmes (who was a poor mans Ali to begin with)
can look good against tyson for a few minutes i KNOW Ali at ALMOST any age woulda one-two-step'ed his way to victory


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlfs2...larry%20holmes <--clip i was watchin

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I have absolutely NO IDEA how you can watch that clip and say anything negative about Tyson's performance or deduct that Tyson would have trouble with Ali. I don't know....maybe you loaded the wrong clip or something. I just watched one of the better heavies of the last 30 years back pedal like hell against a man that looked to be 4-5 inches shorter. Yes he was 40 but he was older than that when he outpointed Mercer.


I really can't say that Ali would have definitely beat prime Tyson and if anything, watching that clip simply reinforces an argument on Tysons behalf.

Tyson had the speed, the power and the movement and I believe that his chin would have held up against Ali. I think that he would have caught a lot of jabs coming in but then he would have started throwing bombs.

The only question in my mind is was Ali quick enough to dodge all of those hooks. If so then yes Ali wins on points. If not, then same outcome as Holmes fight.........different round.

If Henry Cooper can knock down Ali then Tyson easily could.

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

If Henry Cooper can knock down Ali then Tyson easily could.

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and that is ooh ahh ooh prime ali......tyson keeps him on the canvas! ;) :D

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

If Henry Cooper can knock down Ali then Tyson easily could.

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and that is ooh ahh ooh prime ali......tyson keeps him on the canvas! ;) :D

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And a prime Tyson got WHUPPT by Douglas, a prime Ali fustrates, befuddles, and talks S*** to a prime Tyson, all the while beating his a**, Ali by UD or late T.K.O :stars:

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Originally Posted by The_One77

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Originally Posted by kyle0930

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I doubt many educated boxing fans would argue against Ali beating a prime Tyson.


There is no evidence that Mike would break down or "collapse physically"......it would do the complete opposite.

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Ok so I guess, Douglas, Holyfield (twice), Lewis, Williams and McBride don't count as evidence then? ::**

Tyson was incredibly strong and ferocious but it has to be said that whenever he stepped up in class and faced an unquestionable great, he lost, and every time his breakdown was as much mental as physical.

Yes, excuses can be made for him, but it doesn't alter the fact that mentally, whenever the going got tough, Mike had a little lay down on the canvas and quit.

If you can show me a fight where there didn't happen I will be converted.

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Tyson was a better fighter then Foreman, Liston, Patterson, Frazier and Norton. A young Tyson had all the tools to beat any heavyweight in history. His handspeed and power in both hands was frightening along with a great defence which is very overated. I think Mike could beat Ali.

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He had the tools to beat decent fighters but not all the greats...THAT MY FRIEND I declare shenanigans on....do you accept the shenanigans?

Tyson had hand speed and power but guys who did he use them against?

Ali had hand speed and enough power to stop anyone he fought in his prime.

Joe Frazier was like a heavyweight version of Gatti or Ward, he was all heart and had a game plan and stuck to it.

Foreman would annihilate Mike Tyson, he was never bullied (until the Ali fight) he never backed down, he was 100 times badder than Mike he just didn't go all crazy on people like Mike did but he only did that to con them into watching his fights much like Mayorga or Vargas talk a ton of shit

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Tyson was a better fighter then Foreman, Liston, Patterson, Frazier and Norton. A young Tyson had all the tools to beat any heavyweight in history. His handspeed and power in both hands was frightening along with a great defence which is very overated. I think Mike could beat Ali.

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He had the tools to beat decent fighters but not all the greats...THAT MY FRIEND I declare shenanigans on....do you accept the shenanigans?

Tyson had hand speed and power but guys who did he use them against?

Ali had hand speed and enough power to stop anyone he fought in his prime.

Joe Frazier was like a heavyweight version of Gatti or Ward, he was all heart and had a game plan and stuck to it.

Foreman would annihilate Mike Tyson, he was never bullied (until the Ali fight) he never backed down, he was 100 times badder than Mike he just didn't go all crazy on people like Mike did but he only did that to con them into watching his fights much like Mayorga or Vargas talk a ton of S***

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DAMMIT LYLE THERE IS NO WAY FOREMAN WOULD BEAT TYSON!!!!!!!!! NEVER!!!! I SAY NEVER

GEORGE WAS SLOW PREDICTABLE AND HAD A LEAKIER DEFENSE THAN A NO ARMED BOXER....

Sorry I got carried away... If Ron Lyle floored George than a Jab,Combo and Hook Tyson would overwhelm George with handspeed and power

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Joe Frazier was like a heavyweight version of Gatti or Ward, he was all heart and had a game plan and stuck to it.

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Yeah and Frazier was anothe tortoise in the ring and your right all that heart and determination would work against him....Frazier coming forward and taking 2-3 shots to give one would end his night early..Frazier is Taylor made for Tyson.. King would have made that fight in a second!!!!! You think Foreman whipped him Tyson would Ruin his day..

....Foreman had an uppercut that would knock Tyson senseless and you know how Tyson was used to getting on the inside....well Foreman had a right hook that would knock out Jesus.

Big George not only had the style to beat Mike (slow and predictible or not, it was effective) he had the mental capacity to beat Miek before they got in the ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvirl...orge%20foreman
Does Joe Frazier's head movement remind you of anyone?

...Mike Tyson perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msdme...orge%20foreman

hahahaha, look at him and Atlas

"Go get me a sandwich and sit down" - George

hahaha, BUUUUUURN Teddy

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....Foreman had an uppercut that would knock Tyson senseless and you know how Tyson was used to getting on the inside....well Foreman had a right hook that would knock out Jesus.

Big George not only had the style to beat Mike (slow and predictible or not, it was effective) he had the mental capacity to beat Miek before they got in the ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvirl...orge%20foreman
Does Joe Frazier's head movement remind you of anyone?

...Mike Tyson perhaps?

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I'm with you on this Lyle.

Tyson was a great fighter, one of the most exciting and explosive fighters to watch but Foreman, Ali, Lewis and probably 2 or 3 others rank above him. Tyson was explosive but he didn't knock everybody out even in his prime, bums like Mitch Green and bonecrusher Smith took him the full 12 rounds so I see no reason to think big George would be getting knocked out.

Ali and Lennox Lewis will always have had the beating of Tyson, maybe Foreman, Holyfield, Jack Johnson, prime Larry Holmes and possibly a couple others.

Tyson was an all time great, no question, but a fringe great, hovering just inside or outside of the top 10, like Floyd Patterson and Joe Frazier.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....Foreman had an uppercut that would knock Tyson senseless and you know how Tyson was used to getting on the inside....well Foreman had a right hook that would knock out Jesus.

Big George not only had the style to beat Mike (slow and predictible or not, it was effective) he had the mental capacity to beat Miek before they got in the ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvirl...orge%20foreman
Does Joe Frazier's head movement remind you of anyone?

...Mike Tyson perhaps?

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How do you figure he would be beat before he entered the ring??? I Guess you never saw how fast and hard Tyson hit the bag..See you cant make comparisons between Frazier and Tyson Tyson was 10x more athletic and faster with his hands and feet he would jump on Foreman faster than a NYC mugging...Tyson was just as Ferocious as Foreman

CC Bilbo....

And for "an arm puncher" George Foreman sure as hell had some power.

I just think that Tyson's skill was great but it was the stuff you can't see that held him back, heart, desire, dedication, determination.

Tyson couldn't be beaten for 10 rounds and end up KO-ing a guy in the last 2

Tyson couldn't get off the canvas to win

Tyson couldn't go to plan B

Tyson would rather party than train

I think Frazier would have been tough for Tyson. Frazier had up and down head movement with made it difficult to hook him but easy to uppercut. Tyson had side to side movement you could hook him and when he stopped you could upper cut him. Frazier just NEVER stopped moving his head or his hands even vs Ali in II and III.

Foreman learned from Sonny Liston, he had an aura of meanness that would make Tyson shit his pants. Tyson could be as fast as he wanted he would still lose

Nice videos Lyle.

Foreman was great.


As far as Tyson goes, I think prime Tyson had better movement than Frazier. If nothing else, this would have been a very tough fight for Ali. Like I said, if he could avoid Tysons hooks, then he would win but otherwise, he would fall.

Don't know how Lewis' name got brought up in this thread and I sure as shit don't know how anyone in their right mind could put Lewis and Ali in the same sentence.

Tyson did way more for boxing and was much more of an impressive fighter at his peak than Lewis ever was. When Lewis became champ, the popularity of the Heavyweight division plummeted......at least in this country it did.

A "PRIME" Tyson....I dont know....

Tyson's Prime was well before King screwed him up and over....

With Tyson's attack the way it was, I believe Ali would have seriously had trouble trying to play the "Rope a Dope" on Tyson....Tyson actually had more power than most guys Ali ever fought....With exceptions like Frazier and Foreman...

I think that the type of power fighters have today comes through years of genetics and technology, you cant find very many fighters of yesteryear that had the shape or the power that most fighters of today have, what you do find is "MORE HEART!!!", yes, the only difference between fighters of the past and fighters of today is heart, the game changed when all the big dollars got involved....Now you got fighters waiting for the money to be right, when fighters in the past were like, "When and where??"....

Tyson, was a little of both...Pre-King, Tyson was heart and skill....And during the King era was about the money...

So when you think about Tyson's prime you need to really realize when his "True Prime" was....

I think this fight would be a great one, but, if we are talking about Tyson's prime, I would have to give the win to Tyson by TKO in the 4th.....

Good Luck,

Coach

a prime tyson was 2 scared 2 fight the old george--so a prime foreman would ko tyson in 5

Tyson would have had Ali for Breakfast....

Literally....No really he would...

We all know what Mikes like....


Earole on Toast?

Yes Please!

;D

Id go with Ali but it would be interesting how Ali would have handled Tysons Jab at its best

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by The_One77

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Originally Posted by kyle0930

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I doubt many educated boxing fans would argue against Ali beating a prime Tyson.


There is no evidence that Mike would break down or "collapse physically"......it would do the complete opposite.

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Ok so I guess, Douglas, Holyfield (twice), Lewis, Williams and McBride don't count as evidence then? ::**

Tyson was incredibly strong and ferocious but it has to be said that whenever he stepped up in class and faced an unquestionable great, he lost, and every time his breakdown was as much mental as physical.

Yes, excuses can be made for him, but it doesn't alter the fact that mentally, whenever the going got tough, Mike had a little lay down on the canvas and quit.

If you can show me a fight where there didn't happen I will be converted.

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you missed the point, i said Tyson wasn't intimidated when someone trashed talked....It made him a better fighter, as with the point i said with Biggs and Holmes.
Find me evidence to back up your claim that Tyson would be disturbed by trash talking.....that's just making up bull to make Tyson look bad.
Besides when Tyson fought Lewis, Mcbride and Williams the guy was a shadow of himself..

Find me evidence to back up your claim that Tyson would be disturbed by trash talking.....&#160; The One


The way Teddy Atlas tells it Tyson used to cry before fights because he was scared he would lose.&#160; In the documentary Fallen Champ they show an example of this.&#160;

Look at the McBride fight where he was chewing on his glove...

I still don't think Ali's trash talk would be the reason Tyson would win or lose.

..Tyson ALWAYS chewed on his gloves

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Originally Posted by Lyle

..Tyson ALWAYS chewed on his gloves

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I heard tell that he had not done so since his amateur days.

If you know he did then I guess he did....

Pff look at Ali's trouble with a really old LIston who some thought was inbetween 35-40... Comparing Tyson to Foreman is just dumb... Tyson dodged punches, and punched when there are openings... Tyson is way more powerful, and a way quicker than Floyd Patterson ever was. Mike Tyson's technique was an improved Joe Frazier technique which made him perfect for beating Ali... Also Holmes always even in his later age had a better jab than Ali, and thats the only thing he used effectively vs. Tyson.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

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Originally Posted by Lyle

..Tyson ALWAYS chewed on his gloves

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I heard tell that he had not done so since his amateur days.

If you know he did then I guess he did....

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No, Tyson chewed on his glove all the time, it was a reminder for him to keep his right hand high and to his chin....It was sort of a bad habbit formed from his early days as an amateur fighter....