UFC 61 thoughts...

Post UFC 61 thoughts: After watching one of the most hyped UFC events ever, one cannot help but be dissapointed. The possible comeback of a used up Shamrock fed the anticipation right up until his initial attack was crushed and he ended up on his back, once again, with Ortiz pounding on him. You might thing that of all the training Shamrock did in preparation for this event, he might have sharpened up his bottom/back skills, where he is absolutely abysmal. He is not going to take Ortiz or any other respectable modern wrestler down, so he might have anticipated spending some time in that position. The filler fights were pathetic, from the first bloody mess onwards. Here is a huge question for the UFC as it attempts to polish its image: why not clean up the puddles of blood? It looks horrid and barbaric. What fighter wants to get caught on his back in another fighter's puddle of blood? And why not stop the fight earlier? -- even if the bleeding fighter can continue? I'm sorry, but the bloodied warrior image is something that really doesn't need to be a part of this. And the final fight was with Arlovski and Sylvia was no more than a 3rd tier boxing match. What has been boxer couldn't have wasted either of them? There was obviously some huge caution for either of them to go to the ground. Arlovski was not going to take Sylvia down -- Sylvia, though absolutely one dimensional, is so tall and awkwardly strong, he is nearly impossible to take down; he's an ungainly goofball, but uses his dorky resources to his best advantage. His punches are short and on target -- and with his long arms and shoulderless upper body, he can direct them with deadly efficiency. However, against a 3rd tier pro boxer, he, or Arlovsky, would be far outclassed. So what we were left with was a 4th rate boxing match with two guys that quickly bored us to death with their very limited boxing skills. As much as the Ortiz fight was anticlimactic in its sudden ending, this one was anticlimactic in its incredibly boring duration. 'Scuse me, but diesn't Arlovsky remember how to kick? Doesn't he spend hours every week training kicks? Or anything else, rather than just his two step boxing routine?
...A few added commments on Shamrock: -who seemed to be very troubled by the verdict of the ref, who stepped in and stopped the carnage and brain damage. This was just as bad if not worse than the Royce Gracie ending at the hands of Hughes. It wasn't just the battering of fists throughout the rounds as in the first fight. It was the undefended elbows of Ortiz. Shamrock can yell that he was wronged by the ref, but he was not. The ref stopped the bout because Shamrock could not defend himself.

couldn't agree more. Tim did what he does, but Andrei had to know he needed the last round, and was happy to just let the time tick away. Tim's punch power must have really been the back of Arlovski's head. And why not even try a takedown?

I think Andrei felt intimidated after the initial tie up with Silvia -- his attempt to take him down then was in vain, totally. Beyond that, it seemed every time he led with a leg or a punch, Silvia would nail him -- because Andrei leads with his head, he turns his head away, and when he comes across with his right, he lowers his head -- all very bad habits in boxing, and something no professional would do. The limited boxing skills of the vast majority of UFC fighters is surprising -- lots of them, including Arlovksky and most notably Ludell, are great brawlers who know how to land punches in flurries -- but this really isn't the same as being a good, technical boxer. And stopping someone's one-two punch routine that is so repetitive its nauseating, is no harder than stopping someone's leg shots. Anyone with any skill can do it.

Am in the UK and have not seen it yet...cheers for the (virtually) blow by blow though. Are you gonna tell me how the sixth sense ends whilst your at it|? >:mad

I know this is a violent sport but I felt physically sick when Eve Edwards head started squirting blood all over the place :-\

I really think that blood bath was alowed to go on too long!

This event was awful. AWFUL! Only good fight was Tito shamrock but even though refs call was good, he shud just let tito beat up on ken bit more.

AA and Sylvia. Both fought shit, none of the two deserve credit or looked improved or anything. Was a boring standup fight and i just switched off and thought F this, aint worth watching.

The bloodletting was repulsive, no question. This is one of the aspects of the UFC that really does carry us back to the Roman times.........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gillpad

I think Andrei felt intimidated after the initial tie up with Silvia -- his attempt to take him down then was in vain, totally. Beyond that, it seemed every time he led with a leg or a punch, Silvia would nail him -- because Andrei leads with his head, he turns his head away, and when he comes across with his right, he lowers his head -- all very bad habits in boxing, and something no professional would do. The limited boxing skills of the vast majority of UFC fighters is surprising -- lots of them, including Arlovksky and most notably Ludell, are great brawlers who know how to land punches in flurries -- but this really isn't the same as being a good, technical boxer. And stopping someone's one-two punch routine that is so repetitive its nauseating, is no harder than stopping someone's leg shots. Anyone with any skill can do it.

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AMEN, brotha!!!! CC.


I could see Arlovski's bad habits in the last fight they had. EVERY TIME he threw a big right he dropped his left. Ane eventually it cost him the fight.

Not enough UFC "brawlers" know how to utilize the jab. They just look for the big O shot which is extremely dangerous when two guys are just throwing haymakers with 4oz gloves on. It's almost a coin toss at that point as to who will win. No boxing savvy whatsoever in the UFC.

The best thing about UFC 61 was finding out that Wanderlai Silva will be challenging Chuck!

-----redone............who was the fighter who knocked out Chris Leben -- a very good standup Brazillian ( I believe) fighter who won within a minute??? I thought his last name was Silva............ : ;D

I'm sort of thinking that if Slyvia is the antithesis of what a fighting human being should look like. His gangly, awkward posture is something that is made even worse looking by his one dimensional fighting style and his excessively primitive facial expressions -- all of which are superbly enhanced by his 'make my look at stupid as you can' haircut and facial hair. This unfortunate combination has to cause any normal person to want him to lose, which naturally is something that is frustrating, since he is winning. One wonders why? What about him makes him a good fighter? I really cannot tell. I do know that being shoulderless seems to give him a more precise punching range -- its also possible that certain primitive elements give him an edge over more civilized individuals: this situation naturally doesn't augur well for those who think technique and skill will serve them well in an event that seems to be replacing professional boxing as a combative spectator sport. When you think of how he defends himself you surely don't see anything that resembles a skilled technician at work. Its almost mind boggling. Just watch him stand -- its a wonder his legs work! Yet he doesn't have bad kicks. Its the kind of situation that just makes you wonder. Is this really the best there is, and if so, why? Such a huge deal has been made out of Arlovsky, yet he was unable to answer a real challenge. Obviously, no matter what he does to remedy this, it most likely won't succeed, because he just isn't isn't that capable when confronted with the elongated 'thing'.

Wow you need to lay off the (delete as neccessary) Drugs/Coffee/Liquour/ and take a chill pill man :)

gillpad why did you answer your own question?

Im scratching my head as to why people are so against fighters bleeding during the match. We are watching two people throw fists and knees at another persons head and we are not suppsoed to expect blood?!!! wtf. who cares if theres alot of blood. as long as the cut isnt serious we shoudnt worry.

Let's just hope you aren't getting blood on your fingers as you scratch...and I mean heck, if someone is comfortable wallowing in another person's blood, there's no reason not to express it. However, one of the goals of most organized sports is to present itself as somewhat civilized. Any number of viewers or participants out there might be perfectly at ease watching blood gushing from an open wound and pouring unchecked onto the combat surface, as the opponents smear it around on their bodies -- perhaps even inviting some of it into their own systems if there is an open sore or wound. But most people, even if they do like watching fights, do not like this aspect of it; I've wrestled and done all sorts of mixed martial arts, and I find the blood thing pretty disgusting, when left unchecked. BTW- what does 'wtf' mean? Does it have something to do with liking the more barbaric aspects blood combat?

Cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but "wtf" is loser speak for "what the fornication" (to put it politely).

I agree with someone of your points, gilli, and not with others. I'm personally fine with the blood (although to be fair, I didn't see this actual match), as long as the cut itself isnt too severe and doesnt put the fighter in any danger. Some guys are just natural bleeders, while others not so much. I personally dont get cut easily at all, but once I do get cut, I bleed forever. I'd hate to lose a fight just because I got a small cut somewhere that bled worse than it actually was. Obviously, if the guy looks like he's losing a bit too much blood (getting feint, etc.), the blood is obscuring his vision or otherwise affecting his ability to fight, or if the cut is in danger of causing serious problems for the fighter, then call it. Otherwise, its just blood....man up. I do agree that they really ought to mop that stuff up or something after the fight. It will help the image if they make it look like they care that there's blood everywhere, even if they dont stop the fight for it.

As far as Sylvia goes...I love the man, for exactly the reasons you hate him. The guy isnt very good at anything, and he's not skilled at all. But for some reason, he gets the job done. He's beaten AA twice now, with his loss looking like much more of a fluke than his first win over AA. He reportedly is pretty skilled on the ground, but hasnt really done anything to show it. His boxing is terrible, but its MUCH better than 90% of the other fighters out there. His victory of that BJJ Silva guy on UFC2 or 3 proved it. Everytime he takes his time, and uses his ungodly reach advantage, he wins. He just peppers the guy with what looks like awkwardly effective jabs and 1-2 combos, and throws in a kick here or there. I guess he kind of reminds me of that wicked awkward dork in grade school who used to get beat up all the time, then he hit puberty, took a TKD class or something once or twice, then uses it against the school bullies somehow.

And lastly: Arlovski. I despise that man. I've felt for a while he was the most overrated UFC fighter in a long long time. I've felt for a while that hes the champion not because he's so good, but because everyone else sucked. Sylvia won the title after dismantling the current champ, then lost it because he was on the juice (supposedly to get rid of the flab on his gut, which I actually believe). A couple of stupid losses to easily avoidable submissions later, he got his shit together, and won the title back. AA won the title because Sylvia was stupid. He then won his next couple matches because Eilers and Buentello tried to just bang with him, which is stupid, because the one thing he does have are some very heavy hands. He's got a glass jaw, however, and any half blind, mentally incapacitated counter puncher should be able to expose that so easily, its not even funny. Look at Sylvia v Arlovski II. Sylvia pegged him with some sort of awkward hook or something while Arlovski was throwing yet another bomb face first, and he dropped to the mat like your sister on prom night.

Wow...huge post there, eh? I'm at work and I'm wicked bored....forgive me :P

Hey, interesting stuff Heavy D. I understand not wanting to lose because of being cut and not being able to stop it. In HS/collegiate style wrestling, they have blood rules to deal with this. Obviously, the rules are applied quite rigorously in HS and even if a drop of blood appears, things are halted immediately to deal with it -- a bit hysterical of course. College isn't so anal about it, but still has rules that deal with it. If bleeding can't be controlled, the match eventually ends as blood time runs out. Its a reasonable method for dealing with it. But this still isn't all out combat, naturally. So I wouldn't expect the same rules to apply in martial arts contests. What I really detest, and others, who like watching, but not participating in, MMA, is the obvious presence of blood and the lack of any effort to clean it up -- or to really have any method for halting blood flow. At some point, if fighters are on the ground and all of the action is taking place in very close proximity to the cut, and that same action is taking place in the blood pool, it is just ugly -- the sort of thing that turns off people who pay, but not to watch blood fountains and consequent pools and participants swimming around in it. Less tolerant payees don't understand this, and I'm not sure they should -- as I really don't either, and I have been involved in wrestling for about 40 years now. You mix this up with the seemingly planned boredom of UFC 61, and lots of folks will find other ways to spend $40.

Yeah, I can definately understand that. Like I said, I didnt see the Yves fight, but generally, once someone starts bleeding that bad, they stop the action first chance they get to try and stop the blood if its that bad (which usually just consists of slapping some vaseline and a huge cotton swab on there, but hey).

My biggest problem is that they usually dont do much to clean up the blood after the fight. Theres no real reason they cant take an extra 10 minutes between fights to properly mop that stuff up. It starts looking like a blood soaked gladiatorial coliseum by the time they get to the main event, which to me is an even worse image than the actual fighter continuing to fight with a bad cut.

"a blood soaked gladiatorial coliseum " --- that's it! And they absolutely should do something about that! What's the point of leaving blood around for 3 hours of fighting? How much effort and time would it take to clean it up? The blood spill scenario seems almost purposeful, to enhance the 'gladiator' image! - when the lions used to gore their victims! Wow!

I actually have an answer for this....

In open wheel racing, F1, IRL, Champ Car, the drivers have what are called taer-off or tear-away strips. When their visor gets dirty, they just peel away a layer of thin plastic. So why can't the UFC and Pride have canvas systems that are held to the mat by heavy velcro? After each fight, just tear it off and velcro a new one down. Then they could clean them for the next event. Enough velcro under there and they won't move a bit. Hell, they could even buckly them down if you don't like velcro.

Thoughts?

I don't know what material the ufc floor is made of, but it seems to absorb the blood. On a non-porous surface, blood could easily be wiped away, as it is with wrestling mats. The blood on the ufc surface seems to soak in. I guess if I were a fighter coming into the ring after a severe bloodletting fest, I might be conscious of not wanting to be on my back in the blood; perhaps in the heat of the battle, such hesitations dissipate. But just how hard is it to get a bucket of hot water and bleach and wipe it up? There is surely more than enuf time between bouts!! It is left there on purpose, which shows the ufc folks think its part of the ambiance! I watched ufc 61 and was very turned off by this; I guess had at least one fight been worth it, my revulsion would have been mitigated. But the blood seems to be the most noteworthy aspect of this particular ufc -- which is why a week and a half later it is still such a huge subject! Congrats to the ufc folks on making the blood such a significant factor in an otherwise boring as hell evening. (yes, the 40 seconds of Tito's fight was enervating, but overall that fight was obviously very anticlimactic...

Actually, thats not a terrible idea with the tear away mats. In wouldnt do velcro, because it COULD shift a bit too much during the actual fight, which is why I assume they dont use them. There'd also be the issue of having to apply the promoters ads to each and every layer of mat, which means more money (which is what it all boils down to for the UFC). The biggest draw back from a fighters stand point would have to be the concern that the mats might shift, because, as seen in Couture vs Lidell III, even the slightest loss of footing can be disasterous to a fighter. If you could really manage to make those things secure, though, it would be worth pitching to an MMA organization.

As far as the mats soaking up blood, thats for a good reason. If the mats don't soak up the blood, it stays there in a pool. And where there's a pool of blood, there's a pretty severe slipping hazard. And like a stated above, even the slightest loss of footing can be disasterous to a fighter's chances, and a major loss of footing can prove extremely dangerous to the fighters health. So I have no problem with the mats soaking the blood up, because its a lot safer for fighters that way. I just wish there was a way they could clean it up somehow. Hell...they have a couple minutes between each round....it doesnt take THAT long to at least get SOME of it up.

EDIT: To the best of my knowledge, the mats are made of a foam-plastic of sorts.....similar to your typical wrestling mat