mike tyson: underrated or overrated

if anything --hes underrated---in his prime not 2 many pple could survive him--his opposition wasnt the greatest--but he destroyed it--i think he could have beaten most of the greats except ali and foreman. one of the hardest punchers with lighting fast hands--deadly--he was invincible--but eventually lost--cuz of going with don king--then lost 5 yrs due 2 jail. after this forced retirement he could be nuthing more than a shadow of his former self. but in his prime he was the man--i think he woulda broken marciano record and joe louis title defense record(as ali would have done, almost larry holmes who came the closest)--shoulda stuck w/rooney--but he is underrated cuz he will never fully get the recognition he deserves cuz of his opposition

Depends on who you ask...if someone says "he's always been unbeatable" they are wrong but if someone says "He's always been a bum" they are wrong too.

He's greater than good but not GREAT GREAT...I doubt he beats any of the top 10 all-time heavyweights because they while perhaps lacking in Tyson's skill had the intangibles that he didn't

Both

"hes unbeatable in his prime"

overrated

"all you had to do is stand up to him to beat him"

underrated

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

Both

"hes unbeatable in his prime"

overrated

"all you had to do is stand up to him to beat him"

underrated

---

That pretty much covers it all. cc

I don't think tyson ever reach his prime...but still at his time the whole world knew him...at the young age he won the heavyweight title yes...but at the rate he was on when he was all about boxing and focus and no b.s in his career...tyson could of surpass all of the heavyweights all time great...

he didn't have much good competition but he blew them away...and it was brutal to watch young tyson k.o all of them...

his not at all overated...actually his now underated...

he had it all power speed defence movement toughness chin...

its just too bad he fell in to what the media wanted him to be...

All im going to say is that Mike Tyson had potential to be one if not the greatest of all time. Dont get me wrong he is a great legend, and proably the most mainstream boxer. But i seriouslly think this guy could of ruled the HW divison for much more longer then he did.

from what i heard, in his prime, HE WAS A HOUSEHOLD NAME AND EVERYONE REALLY BELIEVED THAT HE WAS THE TOUGHEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD, THEY WERE TERRIFIED OF HIM!
he had a fearsome rep. THERE WAS NEVER A BOXER WITH THE REPUTATION OF TYSON IN HIS PRIME, PEOPLE WERE SHIIT SCARED OF HIM!

in his prime the guy was a technical master! he was a come forward aggressive figHTER WITH A GREAT DEFENSE (bobbing and weaving) same style of fighting as Jack Dempsey, but tyson i think was a little more sharper and tidier with his punches, he was bigger ofcourse!

prime tyson is no pushover for any of the greats, he could have beaten ali and foreman at his best but so could they have beaten him!

FACTS are FACTS

Became champ at 20.

Beat the division up.

Skills declined early.
Jail helped him become less skillful.

Ate some ears. Bit a leg.

Now a shadow of his former self.

SIMPLE!

His skills are very underated by alot of people. However i think in his prime he would of beaten most of if not all of the heavies ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

from what i heard, in his prime, HE WAS A HOUSEHOLD NAME AND EVERYONE REALLY BELIEVED THAT HE WAS THE TOUGHEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD, THEY WERE TERRIFIED OF HIM!
he had a fearsome rep. THERE WAS NEVER A BOXER WITH THE REPUTATION OF TYSON IN HIS PRIME, PEOPLE WERE SHIIT SCARED OF HIM!

in his prime the guy was a technical master! he was a come forward aggressive figHTER WITH A GREAT DEFENSE (bobbing and weaving) same style of fighting as Jack Dempsey, but tyson i think was a little more sharper and tidier with his punches, he was bigger ofcourse!

prime tyson is no pushover for any of the greats, he could have beaten ali and foreman at his best but so could they have beaten him!

---

I'n not disagreeing with the rest of your comments, but people were just as scared of Joe Louis in his prime as they were of Tyson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cockey cockney

His skills are very underated by alot of people. However i think in his prime he would of beaten most of if not all of the heavies ever.

---

Agreed :coolclick:

I always fall back to watching Tyson's early days....prime for prime he has a decent chance against any of the ATG's....

man it seems like this is discussed weekly. I have very mixed feelings about Tyson's placement in history. Tyson's wins are against mostly average fighters. Not that this is his fault and not that many fighters(marciano, Louis,holmes etc) don't have the same dilemma in regards to their legacy. I think quite often it wasn't who he beat but the electrifying way he did it. I often ask myself if Tyson was a defensive master who out pointed and embarrassed fighters would we feel the same way? If he was the pernell whitaker of the HW era would he have such a fan base? Tyson embodied what we as fans want in our champion. I think people quite often get wrapped up in the sheer entertainment value of Tyson. His wins over Berbick, Smith, Tucker, Ruddock, tubbs, thomas, biggs etc are impressive in that he cleaned out a division and in the manner he did them but the actual opposition is really just slightly better than average. Tyson has two great wins: the destruction of Spinks and Holmes. Although Holmes went on to several more decent wins I don't think anyone will argue that he was the same man who himself had cleaned out a division. And I don't think we will ever know why spinks gave such a sorry performance. The biggest problem with grading Tyson's career is that his "prime" was so short. He didn't face any truly good HW's in their prime until late in his career. Obviously Tyson's management decisions and personal demons had a lot to do with his decline as a fighter, but this is a part of who Tyson was as a fighter. He simply didn't have the dedication and focus of other great HW's. I look at him alot like Bowe. They both had all the skills to be ATG's but couldn't capitalize. I don't judge Tyson's career after the Lewis fighter b/c it was obvious he didn't care. That being said whether he came in poorly prepared or not he was beaten soundly by douglas, holy, and Lewis. Great fighters rise to the occasion and Tyson didn't. When he met fighters who weren't intimidated, were bigger, had a decent jab and could back him up and tie him up he was definately frustrated. Tyson is one of the greatest power punchers ever, and arguably the most exciting fighter ever. He will stand as an icon in boxing of what might of been, but in my personal oppinion not an all time great fighter and hugely overrated.

A really good read Van Childs and you make some good points. cc.

Thierry Henry the footballer has made a pretty good career out of beig a flat-track bully who pulverises weaker opposition but goes missing against the really big boys. They are still calling him an all-time great.

Some parallels with Iron Mike?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Legend KilleR

I don't think tyson ever reach his prime...but still at his time the whole world knew him...at the young age he won the heavyweight title yes...but at the rate he was on when he was all about boxing and focus and no b.s in his career...tyson could of surpass all of the heavyweights all time great...

he didn't have much good competition but he blew them away...and it was brutal to watch young tyson k.o all of them...

his not at all overated...actually his now underated...

he had it all power speed defence movement toughness chin...

its just too bad he fell in to what the media wanted him to be...

---

seeing as how HW's come into their prime in their 30's I would have to agree with you on this one....he went to jail just before he started to come into his prime and then lost 5 years or so because of it.........never reached his prime and was the undisputed champion of the world...that has to count for something....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by X

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

from what i heard, in his prime, HE WAS A HOUSEHOLD NAME AND EVERYONE REALLY BELIEVED THAT HE WAS THE TOUGHEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD, THEY WERE TERRIFIED OF HIM!
he had a fearsome rep. THERE WAS NEVER A BOXER WITH THE REPUTATION OF TYSON IN HIS PRIME, PEOPLE WERE SHIIT SCARED OF HIM!

in his prime the guy was a technical master! he was a come forward aggressive figHTER WITH A GREAT DEFENSE (bobbing and weaving) same style of fighting as Jack Dempsey, but tyson i think was a little more sharper and tidier with his punches, he was bigger ofcourse!

prime tyson is no pushover for any of the greats, he could have beaten ali and foreman at his best but so could they have beaten him!

---

I'n not disagreeing with the rest of your comments, but people were just as scared of Joe Louis in his prime as they were of Tyson.

---

But,,,

Joe Louis had alot more controversy to deal with, one, he was African American having to be a Heavyweight Champ in an era that didnt accept him as a Champion. He also had to present a different image of himself for the public to become more acceptable. Joe Louis was more feared for his skills than he was his attitude.

Nowadays for someone like Mike to show up on the scene, yes, he could be the one tht you either liked or hated...

But, no matter what, no matter how much people hated Mike Tyson, even in his last few losses, he still packed a house when he was on the card...

So overall, I would say that he was neither over-rated or under-rated as a fighter...

He was exactly what he wanted to be when he was younger, thing is, he got older and couldnt do half that shit anymore...

When he lost his first fight, it was only because Douglas was in the right place at the right time for the fight...Mike was on the Decline and with poor management...Douglas did the unthinkable...Would he have done it if Mike was a little more clear headed and more into the fight like he should have been??? I dont quite think so...But, Shit happens and thats that....

Mike did the one thing in his era that noone else was able to do and that was bring life back to the HW division...Now that Mike, Holyfield, Lewis, Moorer and others are not in the division anymore all we have left are the "What Ifs"!!

Mike became what all of the heavyweights in the world today cant become and that is "THE UN-DISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD!!!", well they can, but, who is it going to be??? I just dont see it happening soon....

Little bit of both in my opinion.

He was great against lesser opp but when facing someone that could not or would not be intimidated by him...he lost out.

He was overratted in the 80's for sure, when practically everybody, myself including at the time, felt he was the greatest ever, and the most dangerous man on the planet.

Recent history history has not been good to him however, and now he tends to be underatted by a large potion of boxing fans.

Truth is, at his best in the 80's he would have been a handful for anybody, and would have beaten most heavyweights who have ever lived.

There were flaws however, and I think now an all time great position Heavyweight position of around number 10 would be fair.

I can't see him beating Ali, Lewis or Foreman in any era or even pn his best day but he probably could mix it with everybody else.

I'd imagine he would be much too strong for Joe Louis, who stuggled with 180 lb Billy Conn and was knocked out by Schmelling. Likewise Jack Dempsey, Jor Frazier and others.

However he never really filled his potential so a place higher than 10 would be undeserved, even though I think he could probably beat all but 5 or so of the best heavies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by X

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

from what i heard, in his prime, HE WAS A HOUSEHOLD NAME AND EVERYONE REALLY BELIEVED THAT HE WAS THE TOUGHEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD, THEY WERE TERRIFIED OF HIM!
he had a fearsome rep. THERE WAS NEVER A BOXER WITH THE REPUTATION OF TYSON IN HIS PRIME, PEOPLE WERE SHIIT SCARED OF HIM!

in his prime the guy was a technical master! he was a come forward aggressive figHTER WITH A GREAT DEFENSE (bobbing and weaving) same style of fighting as Jack Dempsey, but tyson i think was a little more sharper and tidier with his punches, he was bigger ofcourse!

prime tyson is no pushover for any of the greats, he could have beaten ali and foreman at his best but so could they have beaten him!

---

I'n not disagreeing with the rest of your comments, but people were just as scared of Joe Louis in his prime as they were of Tyson.

---

...and Sonny Liston and George Foreman

(perhaps Jack Johnson, but people disguised it with hate)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxingCoachBW

But,,,

Joe Louis had alot more controversy to deal with, one, he was African American having to be a Heavyweight Champ in an era that didnt accept him as a Champion. He also had to present a different image of himself for the public to become more acceptable. Joe Louis was more feared for his skills than he was his attitude.

Nowadays for someone like Mike to show up on the scene, yes, he could be the one tht you either liked or hated...

But, no matter what, no matter how much people hated Mike Tyson, even in his last few losses, he still packed a house when he was on the card...

So overall, I would say that he was neither over-rated or under-rated as a fighter...

He was exactly what he wanted to be when he was younger, thing is, he got older and couldnt do half that shit anymore...

When he lost his first fight, it was only because Douglas was in the right place at the right time for the fight...Mike was on the Decline and with poor management...Douglas did the unthinkable...Would he have done it if Mike was a little more clear headed and more into the fight like he should have been??? I dont quite think so...But, Shit happens and thats that....

Mike did the one thing in his era that noone else was able to do and that was bring life back to the HW division...Now that Mike, Holyfield, Lewis, Moorer and others are not in the division anymore all we have left are the "What Ifs"!!

Mike became what all of the heavyweights in the world today cant become and that is "THE UN-DISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD!!!", well they can, but, who is it going to be??? I just dont see it happening soon....

---

OK I'm not going to say that Mike seemed flawed early in his career because he just didn't, whether it was blind admiration or that he just didn't have many flaws.

I do think however, that his style was DEFINANTLY beatable and if a fighter was able to keep their head while in the ring with him using a good jab, tying up on the inside, using the uppercut, and not submitting to Tyson's bully tactics they would have a GREAT chance at going the distance if not winning a decision vs Tyson.

Ali and Sonny Liston showed the flaws in Cus D'Mato's coaching style...or at least the short comings but no one ever used those styles vs Tyson perhaps because no one had that kind of skill but Douglas used what he had to perfection and he would have beaten anyone on that night.

IMHO when talking about Tyson you cant include the post prison Tyson. He was very simply a different person/fighter after prison. Before prison he had so much hate built up and unleashed it in the ring, after prison that hate wasnt there anymore for whatever reason. The preprison Tyson would be a top 5 heavy imo, but atg status is judged on the whole career, and I dont think Tyson matches up. I am a huge fan of the preprison Tyson, he was nearly unstoppable. And it took a man fighting beyound himself to beat him. You can question his opposition but he could only beat the people that were in the ring with him. In the 80's there simply wasnt that many good heavies. There were a few with great potential but none that lived up to it. By the time he actually had the opportunity to fight anybody that could be considered great he was past his best.

All in all I would have to agree with the majority of the people here and say that he is a great fighter but not an atg.

He is the most underrated overrated fighter of all time.

And he is the most overrated underrated fighter of all time. ;)

Hind site is a wonderful thing,how about this. newsflash, this morning Mike Tyson died in a car crash 2 days after knocking out Micheal Spinks in the first round for the undisputed World heavyweight Title. Now tell me how good you rate him, because after that fight everything after went tits up where Mike was concerned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

everything after went tits up

---

thats hysterical........ have cc 100 on me

Im not a fan of his but, tell me a 22 year old that went through the shit He did Givens and her mom , Don King . Cus and Co had cocooned Him, lots of the shit was probably down to himself we know. But He got where He trusted nobody.They gave him trainers who tried to mend something that wasnt broke, and didnt know Boxing as He had been schooled ,as I said Hindsight is a wonderful thing Its the one thing Tyson like everybody didnt have at 22

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scrap

Im not a fan of his but, tell me a 22 year old that went through the S*** He did Givens and her mom , Don King . Cus and Co had cocooned Him, lots of the S*** was probably down to himself we know. But He got where He trusted nobody.They gave him trainers who tried to mend something that wasnt broke, and didnt know Boxing as He had been schooled ,as I said Hindsight is a wonderful thing Its the one thing Tyson like everybody didnt have at 22

---

Of course at 22 there isnt much to have hindsight about.

Thats what I mean Ty Hindsight is how we see the reflection of History is it not

Mike Tyson was deffenatley overrated. Sure he did great things in boxing but he did them at a time when there were no real threats in the heavy weight division. He only faced 3 great fighters in his whole career Holmes, Hollifield, and Lewis and the only one he beat was Holmes who at the time of their fight was past his prime. The other two dissmantled him. Hollifield did it fresh of a loss to a fat sluggish Bowe and in the midst of a pretty bad heart condition. You take that and add what was done to him by those two BUMS Mcbride and Williams and I think the answer is clear. Tyson was overrated.

...Michael Spinks was a great fighter but more at 175 than Heavyweight

Bowe was AWESOME...you had better check that "fat and sluggish" comment, he didn't get fat and sluggish until he fought Golota.

McBride and Williams yes they are bums but relatively young compared to Tyson.


and it's spelled HOLYFIELD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

...Michael Spinks was a great fighter but more at 175 than Heavyweight

Bowe was AWESOME...you had better check that "fat and sluggish" comment, he didn't get fat and sluggish until he fought Golota.

McBride and Williams yes they are bums but relatively young compared to Tyson.


and it's spelled HOLYFIELD

---

Thats cuz Golotta FUCKED Bowe up!!!

Set aside the low blows, Golotta was the best HW comming out at the time....His is the Euro version of a Mike Tyson basically....

But, what Golotta did to Bowe in their two fights(As short as they were) was very damaging to Bowe...

...I think the Bowe-Holyfield trilogy took everything from Riddick.

Golota just came along at the right time...only he missed fighting guys he actually stood a chance with

Michael Moorer
Evander Holyfield
Shannon Briggs
Ray Mercer
Hasim Rahman
Oliver McCall
Oleg Maskaev

He was smart to avoid Rudduck and Morrison as we saw people who jump on him from the start of the fight usually beat him even old Tyson did that

Speaking of those guys, I wish Tyson fought these guys:

Mercer
McCall
Briggs
Grant
Rahman
Moorer
Morrison

All those guys fought from 96 on and during the years from 96-present day Tyson fought:
Buster Mathis Jr.
Bruce Seldon
Brian Nielson
Julius Francis
Peter McNeeley
Frans Botha
Orlin Norris

and so on

Tyson-Moorer would have been GREAT (before Moorer was messed up by Evander)

Re: mike tyson: underrated or overrated


These days he seems to be underrated.......and his potential is obviously grossly underrated.

I still think he's a head case and that he has horrible rationale, but skills are skills and you can't deny him that.