How do you truthfully rate Wlad??

I remember only a couple of months ago, you couldnt read two or three topics without someone bemoaning the lacklustre heavyweight division and its lack of order. Whilst it would be hard to argue the heavyweight division is still, overall, anything but lacklustre, the order side of things may be sorting itself out.

With big Wladdys solid destruction brutilization of Chris Byrd, most people agreed the best heavyweight was making his case for recognition as the worlds greatest in front of our eyes.

Now, I dont remember being particularly surprised or impressed with Wladdy's performance at the time, mainly because it was what I fully expected to happen. In my mind the "top" of the heavyweight division was still as unclear as ever. Yet now (with no further information available) my opinion is that Wlad is the best Heavy out there by quite a few furlongs. IMO only Lyakovich could trouble him, and thats assuming that the night against Brewster wasnt one of those one night in your career, above and beyond performances. Is this a case of us simply talking up Wlad since the fight? Or with time to think could it be that Wlad appears much more clearly as a true dominant force, albeit over a poor division.

Whats everyone elses opinion?

This is gonna sound bad, but I put Wlad on top of the most mediocre, uninteresting HW division in my memory. I think he is a good boxer, but he doesn't have star power here in the states. Time and time again I see all these new heavies trying step up and looking quite unimpressive in the process.

I fully suspect Wlad could unify I think he's to fast and skilled for Valuev, I think he's too strong for Lyakhovich, and just too fresh compared to Rahman. So I guess all in all I'm saying he's the best of
a division that is very average.

very average HW divsion? this is the worst HW division in history!!!!!!!!

but Wlad is far above and the best HW out there right now. he needs to unify so we all can move on with our lives

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

This is gonna sound bad, but I put Wlad on top of the most mediocre, uninteresting HW division in my memory. I think he is a good boxer, but he doesn't have star power here in the states. Time and time again I see all these new heavies trying step up and looking quite unimpressive in the process.

I fully suspect Wlad could unify I think he's to fast and skilled for Valuev, I think he's too strong for Lyakhovich, and just too fresh compared to Rahman. So I guess all in all I'm saying he's the best of
a division that is very average.

---

Hit the nail on the crusty bread there matey. :coolclick:

I don't rate W. Klitschko much at all, but he is possible the top heavy at the moment, a win over Rahman or Toney would cement this.

He's the best out there right now.

I'm not actually that despondent about the heavyweight era, true there are no stars, but there are some good potential matchups out there and some potentially great fights.

Guys like Brewster and Sam Peter may not be world beaters but they make for entertaining fights.

Brewster Liakovich was one of the best heavyweight fights in recent years, it ain't all bad folks.

Entertaining maybe... but if there is a lighter weight fight on at the same time I know which I'll watch

I don't rate him that high. Beating a one dimensional Sam Peter and a Chris Byrd that he already dominated really doesn't tell me anything new. It's like Calzaghe fighting Viet again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

I don't rate him that high. Beating a one dimensional Sam Peter and a Chris Byrd that he already dominated really doesn't tell me anything new. It's like Calzaghe fighting Viet again.

---

Exactly only fights with Rahman & Toney will raise his status

He's the best of the heavyweights out there. Sadly, that's not saying much

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

He's the best of the heavyweights out there. Sadly, that's not saying much

---

You hit the nail right on the head bro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bilbo

He's the best out there right now.

I'm not actually that despondent about the heavyweight era, true there are no stars, but there are some good potential matchups out there and some potentially great fights.

Guys like Brewster and Sam Peter may not be world beaters but they make for entertaining fights.

Brewster Liakovich was one of the best heavyweight fights in recent years, it ain't all bad folks.

---

Ill agree with that, but the key word was POTENTIAL. For every Brewster Lyakovich theres five Williamson Byrds. Unification fights and Sam Peter and Brewster challenging do look to possibly make good fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galaxy76

Exactly only fights with Rahman & Toney will raise his status

---

I disagree. Toney was an awesome super middle and cruiser, but hes nothing but a ball of lard at HW. Fighting him does nothing for Wlad. Same with Rahman who has so little to offer its unbelievable. Maskeav should beat Rahman and then he will fall out of the equation pretty fast.

What do people believe any of the contenders could or should do to dethrone to Wlad should they have the oppurtunity?

besides I still won't rate Wlad that high unless he rematched Brewster which he had an opportunity to do but didn't take it.

Wlad has the POTENTIAL (keyword) to lap the rest of the division. I think there are still questions about his chin and how well he can handle pressure. Byrd never came close to actually hitting him, and Peter never landed a solid shot on his face/chin. I would like to see him withstand some pressure and a couple good chin shots before I will crown him.

Toney's a former super-middle who is fighting & beating heavys. Atleast he has brought some interest to the division. Wlad ain't got no stamina or chin. Toney would beat him bad or knock him out.

No one with a chin as weak as Wlad's can ever be considered great. The only other person who's hit the ground more than Wlad is David Carr in his first 3 years with the Texans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galaxy76

Toney's a former super-middle who is fighting & beating heavys. Atleast he has brought some interest to the division. Wlad ain't got no stamina or chin. Toney would beat him bad or knock him out.

---

Well, that all depends on what kinda shape Toney comes in at..........
if he's looking like Jabba the Hut, my money's on Wlad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galaxy76

Toney's a former super-middle who is fighting & beating heavys. Atleast he has brought some interest to the division. Wlad ain't got no stamina or chin. Toney would beat him bad or knock him out.

---

Well, that all depends on what kinda shape Toney comes in at..........
if he's looking like Jabba the Hut, my money's on Wlad

---

I don't care what shape Toney comes in at WLAD is going to feed Toney his fat bulbous a**!!!! and I also feel that Wlad is entering his prime as a fighter so he could rule the HW division for quite some time.....

wlad is the best boxer in the heavy weight division but will never rule it because of his glass jaw, it only takes 1 clean shot

He's very good offensively, but there are still questions. He's probably the best out there right now but he's definitely not invulnerable.

Sam Peter was a good win, even though he's incredibly lacking in the skill department, just cause he's got a big punch and Wlad needed to get through 12 rounds with a guy like that. But I have no idea why the Byrd fight convinced so many people, he'd already dominated Byrd who never had the tools to do anything to Wlad. But he probably is the best out there right now.

saying wlad is the best, is like saying lewis was the best in his era.
Whoopidie doo, it might get you an extra scoop of ice cream at the palar, but thats about it.
I like wlad, but he has lots to prove.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigragu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killersheep

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galaxy76

Toney's a former super-middle who is fighting & beating heavys. Atleast he has brought some interest to the division. Wlad ain't got no stamina or chin. Toney would beat him bad or knock him out.

---

Well, that all depends on what kinda shape Toney comes in at..........
if he's looking like Jabba the Hut, my money's on Wlad

---

I don't care what shape Toney comes in at WLAD is going to feed Toney his fat bulbous a**!!!! and I also feel that Wlad is entering his prime as a fighter so he could rule the HW division for quite some time.....

---

I gotta agree with you here bigragu. I think Wlads defense is improving to the point where he could let this make up for his weakened chin as well. However he will always be vunerable to the lucky shot from big hitters, which is a shame as its the only weakness you cant train...

And how come a Wlad thread has been up for a whole 24 hours and Lyle hasnt appeared??? Where are ya man?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OumaFan

He's very good offensively, but there are still questions. He's probably the best out there right now but he's definitely not invulnerable.

Sam Peter was a good win, even though he's incredibly lacking in the skill department, just cause he's got a big punch and Wlad needed to get through 12 rounds with a guy like that. But I have no idea why the Byrd fight convinced so many people, he'd already dominated Byrd who never had the tools to do anything to Wlad. But he probably is the best out there right now.

---

As many dimensions as Wladimer has and as many times as the one dimensional Sam Peter dropped him I don't think he's as good as he's made outto be. And he needs points taken away for the "intentional holding" It's not like they fall into each other and get into a clinch, whenever someone gets close he grabs their arms and holds them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OumaFan

He's very good offensively, but there are still questions. He's probably the best out there right now but he's definitely not invulnerable.

Sam Peter was a good win, even though he's incredibly lacking in the skill department, just cause he's got a big punch and Wlad needed to get through 12 rounds with a guy like that. But I have no idea why the Byrd fight convinced so many people, he'd already dominated Byrd who never had the tools to do anything to Wlad. But he probably is the best out there right now.

---

As many dimensions as Wladimer has and as many times as the one dimensional Sam Peter dropped him I don't think he's as good as he's made outto be. And he needs points taken away for the "intentional holding" It's not like they fall into each other and get into a clinch, whenever someone gets close he grabs their arms and holds them.

---

Its all part of his style . That smashing and grabbing for example would favour the opponent if he fought Byrd who was in more danger standing on the outside .

He was able to get away with alot against Peter but it depends on what the ref allows . Lewis wasnt allowed to do it against Tyson and Mike took a heavy beating cuz of it.

That's because Mike was done from the first round and Lennox could handle pressure. Wladimer can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

That's because Mike was done from the first round and Lennox could handle pressure. Wladimer can't.

---

Yup I cant disagree with that . He certainly cracks when put under pressure but I dont know if theres anyone out there today who can put him under that pressure .

I was pretty impressed with Wvlad when I saw him afew years ago in the London Arena knocking out Monte Barret and thought he could be the future after Lewis . But after K.o defeats to Sanders and Brewster I thought he was exposed but it turnes out he is the best heavy even with all his flaws

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GAME

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

That's because Mike was done from the first round and Lennox could handle pressure. Wladimer can't.

---

Yup I cant disagree with that . He certainly cracks when put under pressure but I dont know if theres anyone out there today who can put him under that pressure .

---

In the Heavyweight division definitely Id agree.

I could see possibilities of some of the current cruiser crop causing Wlad problems. Oneil Bell and maybe after some time and more development, David Haye could trouble Wlad with power and pressure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GAME

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

That's because Mike was done from the first round and Lennox could handle pressure. Wladimer can't.

---

Yup I cant disagree with that . He certainly cracks when put under pressure but I dont know if theres anyone out there today who can put him under that pressure .

I was pretty impressed with Wvlad when I saw him afew years ago in the London Arena knocking out Monte Barret and thought he could be the future after Lewis . But after K.o defeats to Sanders and Brewster I thought he was exposed but it turnes out he is the best heavy even with all his flaws

---

Not really. He's just not fighting anyone that would take advantage of his short comings. Byrd isn't a charger and he has little power, and Peter is too green and one dimensional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GAME

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

That's because Mike was done from the first round and Lennox could handle pressure. Wladimer can't.

---

Yup I cant disagree with that . He certainly cracks when put under pressure but I dont know if theres anyone out there today who can put him under that pressure .

---

In the Heavyweight division definitely Id agree.

I could see possibilities of some of the current cruiser crop causing Wlad problems. Oneil Bell and maybe after some time and more development, David Haye could trouble Wlad with power and pressure.

---

It would be good to see cuz I know he modles himslef on Lennox Lewis but he couldnt last with Carl Thompson so I see Wvlad causing him some serious harm


Majesty - Who else is there that can beat Wvlad ? Peter was probably the biggets threat and he past that test . Rahman is the most solid champ . Toney is past it now . I think the way Wvlad controls his left hand and his size makes him a dangerous guy . Ive never been a massive believer but Manny Stewart is attempting to make him the second coming of Lewis and at the moment he is the closest thing to Lennox out there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GAME

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AC-Cobra

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GAME

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

That's because Mike was done from the first round and Lennox could handle pressure. Wladimer can't.

---

Yup I cant disagree with that . He certainly cracks when put under pressure but I dont know if theres anyone out there today who can put him under that pressure .

---

In the Heavyweight division definitely Id agree.

I could see possibilities of some of the current cruiser crop causing Wlad problems. Oneil Bell and maybe after some time and more development, David Haye could trouble Wlad with power and pressure.

---

It would be good to see cuz I know he modles himslef on Lennox Lewis but he couldnt last with Carl Thompson so I see Wvlad causing him some serious harm

---

He definitely took the Cat too early. I believe if David improves his stamina, his power and other attributes will make him a huge force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately that stamina is a big if at the mo.

I think Oneil Bell jumping up to Heavy could make the division more interesting, he seems like he could defintely make a splash (admittedly Ive only seen the Mormeck fight, but still thats my opinion)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galaxy76

Toney's a former super-middle who is fighting & beating heavys. Atleast he has brought some interest to the division. Wlad ain't got no stamina or chin. Toney would beat him bad or knock him out.

---

Toney who? because I know you don't mean JAMES Toney because if you are you obviously rate his wins over Holyfield, Booker, and Guinn a lot higher than any of Wlad's performances.

Yes Wlad lost to Purrity, yes he lost to Sanders and Brewster and had a Techincal Decision vs Williamson

I try not to overrate his victories but you can learn a lot from his losses which is definantly why he's the best heavyweight...he's never been outpointed, he's gotten better at defense, he's paced himself a lot better, and his jab and hooking off the jab are better weapons than anything James Toney can muster....at heavyweight James is defense defense defense and when was the last time a great fighter at heavyweight used better defense to dominate more so than better offense?

Wlad's offense is his defense and I rate him as one of the better champions Europe/Russia has produced

Hello!

Yes, I agree with most of you that WK is the best. I also dont think that the HWs are that bad. Its easy to only remember the memorables. Ali had problems with Chuvalo and many other fighters, Foreman lost to Jimmy young and sometimes thought with no defence.... so no one is perfect. The issue is to learn from defeats like Foreman did, and this WK is good at.

What guts to go up against the undefeated heaviest hitter in the world to prove a point. Sure after the fact we may say that Peter was beatable, but at that time we didnt know how good he was. Having been hit by Peter and gotten up, now, WK knows what he can take and wont get flustered. And by the way: Sanders is a very good southpaw world champion; fast, agile, smart, super aggresive, finnisher; not perfect but when well motivated really good, no dishonor in losing to him.

The WK I saw against Byrd was great. He had defence and got hit very rarely while still governing the action. Not bad against a very experience master boxer. Nice to see that they respect each other so much on a personal level. Both men a blessing for the sport. Unfortunately the general public are only interested in psycotic, criminal, or loudmouthed fighters.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree, reluctantly, with Violent Demise and Big Deuce on Dr Klitscko; he is a figure of interest in the professional boxing world and, at times is brilliant, but has much to show us ( I fear for his chin, for example). We should all stay tuned. ???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galaxy76

Toney's a former super-middle who is fighting & beating heavys. Atleast he has brought some interest to the division. Wlad ain't got no stamina or chin. Toney would beat him bad or knock him out.

---

Toney who? because I know you don't mean JAMES Toney because if you are you obviously rate his wins over Holyfield, Booker, and Guinn a lot higher than any of Wlad's performances.

Yes Wlad lost to Purrity, yes he lost to Sanders and Brewster and had a Techincal Decision vs Williamson

I try not to overrate his victories but you can learn a lot from his losses which is defiantly why he's the best heavyweight...he's never been outpointed, he's gotten better at defense, he's paced himself a lot better, and his jab and hooking off the jab are better weapons than anything James Toney can muster....at heavyweight James is defense defense defense and when was the last time a great fighter at heavyweight used better defense to dominate more so than better offense?

Wlad's offense is his defense and I rate him as one of the better champions Europe/Russia has produced

---

I not saying Toney's victories are more impressive than Klitschko's. I'm just saying that it's intriguing that Toney is fighting & winning among the big men, & lets not forget he draw with Rahman who holds a KO victory over Lennox. Toneys been calling both Klitschko's out since he arrived @ heavy. It's the only fight I wanna see @ heavyweight.