I am putting together a dvd of all the heavyweight champions, in order, and this is area that is questionable, I would appriciate your imput.
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I am putting together a dvd of all the heavyweight champions, in order, and this is area that is questionable, I would appriciate your imput.
SC me if you must, i have said this from the start. Prime LL is the best HW ever. its just my opinion, which means nothing. but its my honest answer.
I've never been a Lewis fan but:-
Lets not forget that when Lewis was awarded his WBC belt in 1992 it was because the supposed best heavyweight in the world at the time (Bowe) was scared half to death of him...
Lennox was a good champ. IMO.
Lewis is lucky the heavyweight division was on decline when he emerged. ::**
I have lennox at the top of the tree as well
quality boxer
And because in the interim fight he KOed the number 2 ranked heavyweight (after Holyfield) Razor RuddockQuote:
Originally Posted by Greig
In answer the poll, I think his defining moment was beating Holyfield and that is when I truly believed him to be the Undisputed Champion. Would love to have seen how Lewis would've dealt with Holyfield in November 92 though, if he could've kept him at distance a la Tua, he would've won, but with the amount of Hooks Holyfield threw from inside at that time, if he had have got inside it would've been very interesting. Remember Lewis was only 16 stone 3 (228 pounds) in November 92
Never was a big lewis fan myself, actaully i didnt like him at all. But the Holyfield fight was the defining moment imo.
agreed...
The 2 fights with holyfield showed the technical side of lewis.cc
agreed....
Lewis is lucky he came into his prime while the HWD was on the decline.cc(spek)
i hope this dvd has some explosions and stuff to make up for the snoozefest chapter about lewis lol
you kiddin me?Quote:
Originally Posted by spektorette27
He came on when the best guys were around, he'd be criticised even more if he fought in the 80's....
There was no one to fight, except Tyson
I agree completelyQuote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko
Your opinion does indeed mean nothing. :P
He came on when the best guys were around? yea, to bad he didnt fight them. ;D
To me his most impressive win was over Tommy Morrison, and a great boxing lesson he put on David Tua
Other than that he beat,
Michael Grant whose biggest fights before Lennox was Andrew golota (lol) and Lou savarese.
A very overrated frank Bruno, Razor ruddick (whose only mentionable opposition was Morrison and Tyson…what do you think happened there?) Tony tucker who only fought and got ktfo’d by JOHN RUIZ.
Barely squeaked out a win against ray mercer, and then pointed out an Aged (not to perfection) evander holyfield, and knocked out a washed up, mike Tyson.
And to finish off such a dominant career, he was very very lucky to get a stoppage on that fight with vitali, losing 4-2, his punch count reducing as the rounds went on. And giving vitali everything he had, (nice uppercut) vitali kept coming. Oh yea, instead of giving vitali a rematch to a controversial win, he retires because he knows, he didn’t have what it takes to go at another fight with a klitchko who would have more than 11 days to prepare for that fight.
What about Rahman and McCall you say? Yes he knocked em out… BUT they ktfo’d him with one punch, hello sweet chin music.
One question, If he had fought tyson in his prime, along with holyfield, would we even have this discussion?
Yes, but I only post after I see what your opinions are so I can agree with them, hence ill look like a genius in the eyes of all Saddo.com members. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Wait! Maybe thats why I have all these damn SCs. Never mind! No matter what Bilbo says (like the sun rises from the east) I completely disagree!!! ;D
:coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko
Never agree with me if you care about your sc ratio, the bastads have been hitting me with them non stop the past couple days!
best heavyweight ever? lennox lewis? gimmie a break :beat:
Sorry joe luis,
sorry ali
sorry marciano
sorry foreman
sorry jack dempsey
Sorry holyfield
sorry frazier
Now I have to start to agree with you again because you just said by agreeing to what you say will get me SCs. I maded a vow to disagree with anything you post, so therefore I must agree with your last post by disagreeing with it. Yes Bilbo , I agree, the sun rises from the east now. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Well i know this post is meant to discredit Lewis but that sure is an impressive bunch of names he's beaten ;)
All these guys were great for their time. Prime vs Prime I honestly feels LL beats them all. Im still confused about Marciano. Hes was great for his time or do you really think he could beat LL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Actually I agree with you. Lennox would pulvarise Joe Louis, be far too big for Maciano and Dempsey, would give Frazier a beating similar to George Foreman and probably might just get the edge over Ali. He lost to two chumps fair enough, but against anyone decent he was simply unbeatble.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko
He could well have beaten all the above.
thanks for proving my point, against anyone decent... thats it, at best his competition was decent.Quote:
He lost to two chumps fair enough, but against anyone decent he was simply unbeatble.
we are talkin about greatest of all time right?
the fact is, we will never know if LL could of beaten any of the above...
the fact is LEWIS FACED CRAP AND SUCCEEDED...
how do you know marciano, luis, anyone of those fellas who were tough as nails would walk thru that jab of lewis, and knock his jaw into the 1st row.
The point im making is, YES lewis was dominant in his era. but it was an era of CRAP lol
seriously...
Name me 1 fighter still in his prime, that lennox lewis beat, that you would consider top 10 heavies of all time.
I still want someone to explain how Marciano beats LL.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
well, with a chin like lewis, i think marciano would just have to throw one of his huge hooks, and miss by 6 inches, and lewis would get ktfo'd
O OK, thanks! Didnt realize we had a boxing expert here. So that finally answers my question. Marciano MISSES by 6 inches and not only KOs LL but simply K him TFO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Great post. Thanks! ::**
welcome ;D
didnt know you were alergic to a joke...
dont know why, i laughed at the lewis being the greatest heavy of all time joke...it was hilarious
OK, then who is your #1, prime vs prime? (please, if u pick some guy pre-1970 could you explain?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
I would say when he unified the belts. Not many people keep track of lineage championships (only the truly die hards). I think unification is when a fighter becomes universally recognized as THE champ.
Lewis was a very good champion...but nothing he did qualified him as a "greatest of alltime" that is pure conjecture based on his physical size(gifts)...LL was never a clearly dominant champion, he was KO'd by "B" fighters while Lennox should have been in his prime(McCall), got KO'd by a slob(Rahman) and lost a boxing match to Ray Mercer(Yes ll got the MD, but I saw the fight)...these fights were spread out throught his career so at no time was LL dominant....to be the greatest you have to dominate and re-define the division...like Louis, Marciano, Ali and Holmes did...none of the previously mentioned ever lost to the "B" level fighters of their time while in there prime, Lennox can't say the same....I have Lennox as a top 10 of all time but he does not have the accomplishments to be the greatest...that belongs to only one, Ali...
I kind of agree but Ali lost to Frazier and Norton, and was saved by the bell against Cooper. Foreman lost to Jimmy Young, Dempsey got knocked out in 1 round by Jim Flynn, Marciano got beat by Le Starza and was losing on all cards before he knockoed out old man Walcott. Joe Loius struggled to get past light heavy Billy Conn and got a gift against WoolcottQuote:
Originally Posted by The Promoter
Every great fighter has bad spots on their record
Ali did get saved by the bell in the Cooper fight but came back and won....losing to Frazier after a 4 year layoff and one tune-up is hardly getting KO's by a "B" level Rahman or McCall...In his prime Ali was virtually unbeatable by his peers, LL can't say the same...Marciano found a way to win against Walcott and Charles and also gave LaStarza a rematch and beat the stuffing out of him remember LaStarza was 37-0 the first time they fought hardly a walk-over...Louis did struggle and then KO'd Conn twice...I don't have Foreman above LL as a champ nor do I have Frazier becuase they did not have the dominant stretches that Lennox had as a champ....But Holmes was clearly more dominant...Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Why do people question Lewis ' chin, he has been caught with some unbelievanle shots and not wobbled, the 2 punches that floored him would've floored all bar 2 heavyweights in history imo ;)
I personally didn't think he beat Evander in the second fight(the first one was highway robbery though). Neither did Ring Magazine or the AP press. Nor did I think he beat Mercer. Not that it matters though. LL has just as good a resume of fighters if not better as Tyson/Holmes/Louis/Marciano/Dempsey. He is a very disciplined and very smart fighter. Plus he just knew how to fight tall very effectively. Other than the Mercer and VK fight you can argue he beat everybody put in front of him soundly(at least once). In regards to ATG status I include talent, opposition, and legacy. so here is where I rank LL ...tear it up at will
1.Jack Johnson
2.Ali
3.Joe Louis
4.Foreman
5.Holmes
6.Evander
7.LL
8.Frazier
9.Dempsey
10.Tyson
Honorable Mention: Marciano, Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Tunney, Liston.
I can agree with most of your list but Jack Johnson at number 1?Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
But him between Holmes and Evander and swap Frazier for Marciano and I would broadly agree
1.Joe Louis
2 Ali
3) Marciano
4.Holmes
5. Lennox
6.Foreman
7. Tyson
8. J Johnson
9. Holyfield
10. Tunney
Honorable Mention: Walcott, Dempsey, , Fraiser, Liston., John Ruiz, M.Spinks
I think J Johnson's skill is just woefully underrated. The guy carried fights for 20+ rounds just to make more money on the film rights. I know Marciano is undefeated, but his opponents are pretty weak even compared to some other HW's with the same issue. Mostly I just don't see him being able to beat any of the fighters you list other than MAYBE louis, tunney and dempsey. I'm going to ignore the John Ruiz and Spinks listings.
I feel that personally Lewis should be recognised from whe he beat Briggs cause Foreman had never offically retired before fighting Briggs. But at that point of time in boxing history you had to unify all 3 alphabet belts to be considered the undisputed champion.
Lets break this down to this: PRIME vs PRIME....who wins?
I say lewis would frustrate foreman with his jab all night and KO him in the later rounds.
ok,good post, to the point. no name calling, CC for mike.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeboxing
Who? All top heavyweights? Ali wins hands down, then Louis, then Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st rd ko