i think he is an alltime great---however he kinda just seemed like a carbon copy of ali--mimicking him 2 the tooth. but he had that sharp jab--possibly the best jab in boxing history
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i think he is an alltime great---however he kinda just seemed like a carbon copy of ali--mimicking him 2 the tooth. but he had that sharp jab--possibly the best jab in boxing history
The most underated Heavyweight. IMO
yea i really like him one of my favourtie heavyweights he had excellent jab good footwork great chin could take body shots had heart get up from knockdown and had great stamina only thing he didnt have prolly was power but i think hes power is underrated aswell
I think he's a jackass ...yeah he's an All-Time great but why? For beating Trevor Berbick??? Let's NOT forget he lost to Michael Spinks!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
jackass ?? he really won second fight against spinks commentators said so and lederman had holmes up by 3 rounds 2nd fight was a robbery 1st fight was close . he was 36 aswell bit past it and u say for beating berbick ?? he beat ken norton earnie shavers twice gerry cooney leon spinks ali even though he was well past it and he beat tim witherspoon and i dont care what anyone says witherspoon was decent fighter before he got fat
I'm not doubting that he was good, I'm just saying he wasn't spectacular for the competition he fought...I mean not KO-ing Michael Spinks...please!
Holmes was good, he was boring as all hell and arrogant as a mother fucker though
In my opinion Foreman-Holmes would have been a HUGE beat down for Larry...because he did get rocked often and by some smaller guys too
ill agree with that but if larry could get past first 4 rounds against foreman i fancy holmes to win because remember he had great chin and great heart get up from knockdown i think reason he didnt ko spinks because he was past it and plus spinks was moving alot and holmes wasnt really landing clean shots
Very good boxer was Holmes, i never liked him however.
could i just ask u guys something did u like ali ??
He was a great fighter I don't care for him though
1) His constant talking trash paved the way for guys like James Toney whom I despise!
2) His political stance both on War and allying with "The Nation of Islam"
3) His questionable tactics, outstretched arm, holding, holding behind the neck, etc
And the thing I HATE about Ali is
4) The way he treated people of his own race, he called people Uncle Toms and so on and how the fuck do you think that made them feel? Fighting mentality aside at the end of the day boxers are supposed to be genbtlemen and Ali acted like a jackass
and after the 2nd Liston fight he was soooo fucking boring, Rumble in the Jungle my ass...it should have been called The Snoozefest in Budapest!
yea i didnt really enjoy rumble in jungle foreman was swinging like an ape just missing all the time i still think there is something wrong about that fight because really if foreman would of won there would of been riots ect and prolly someone would of killed foreman i dont think foreman could win to be honest
Yer i liked Ali's boxing dont get me wrong but as i person i never particularly liked him.
True...had the fight happened here in the States Foreman would have crushed Ali.
You think about, the ropes, the cut, the postponement, the people hating Foreman, and so on you could tell he was going to lose.
I also hate the fact Ali ALWAYS got his way..."I want to fight in Africa"...well you aren't the fucking champ dumbass! The Champ choses the venue or at least has more say than the challenger
totally agree
I am not sure that would have been a good strapline for a fight in Zaire ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
???
CutMeMick, I agree 100%. I have always said Holmes was the most under rated heavyweight of all-time. Without a doubt the best jab, better than Louis, better than Liston, and Foremans not to mention a highly under rated right cross, the heart of a lion, and a solid chin. Holmes in his prime completely out boxes Foreman and stops him in 7-9 rds. And as far as Holmes losing to Spinks, Larry was over the hill, and got jobbed big time in ther rematch. I don't give many CC Mick, but I have to give you one :coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
Dude whatever...a Prime George Foreman beats pretty much anyone. Holmes' defense wasn't as good as Ali's
The Siesta in KinshasaQuote:
Originally Posted by X
holmes can do rope a dope tactic aswell ;)
Yes but there's 100% chance of the ropes not being as loose as they were in ZaireQuote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
i really wouldnt like to say out of foreman vs holmes either foreman gets him quick or holmes survives foremans punches for first 4 rounds and stops him late or wins ud against foreman
Some of the most frustrating things in the world -and a reason hope there is a heaven and that boxing is allowed- is that Holmes and Foreman didnt meet.
Its so frustrating. Its wrong. The most frustrating thing is that they had sooooooo much time to do it.
I mean after they stole Foreman's hard earned belt and gave it to Briggs why would not a legend fight be a classy exit? I think that they were both scare to lose their legacy.
Another hateful dissapointment was that Tyson ducked Foreman and we never got to see the old man end the career of that sad little disturbed man. I think that few serious boxing fans would give Tyson much of an edge, although every casual fan and all the media would.
Holmes was an excellent boxer and had one of the best jabs in the sport of boxing. He did not have the natural reflexes of Ali but he could block with his gloves,elbows,arms etc a lot better than Ali could. Holmes just came at the worst time in boxing (right after Ali).
It is sad that you could not be in the same era of Ali because he beat and stole the spot light from from whom ever, Shavers and Cleveland would of been better in a different era. Then you could not be in the era right after Ali cause you could not live up to the name.
I am so glad that when I win us open in Jan of 07 and hopefully make Olympics trails when I turn professional there will be no Ali I have to live up to in this era, but thats another story.
bottom line: Larry Holmes who was an exceptional boxer could never make it out of Ali's shadow.
O0 EASY
Holmes was an excellent fighter, but never could quite get out of the Ali shadow...
Peaked in 78 though 80, thus he was not a worldwide household name when he was at his best IMO.
But the fight with Cooney showed he deserved an all-time top 10 ranking at Heavyweight. And the likes of the Norton, Shavers, Snipes, Whitherspoon and Mercer fights showed he often found ways to win, when it looked like he was on a loser.
Sadly the Marciano number was not to be, but at least he lost to a mighty fine fighter in Spinks. ;)
I don't think the Cooney fight shows anything--Cooney was a mediocre fighter who was seriously overhyped because of his skin color. IMO, wins over Norton, Shavers and Mercer are what give Holmes his credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
Hindsight is a beautiful thing, in 1982 Cooney was considered by many (maybe for the wrong reasons), for real and I think he was at the time, look at his record, it was very impressive...Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
as a great boxer who will always be a legend
definitely a top 5 heavie of all time. criminally underrated. I think what was evident more than anything was his amazing heart. had one of the greatest jabs of all time (next to liston). all you can do is beat the man in front of you and he did that 48 times before defeat number 1
2 things that hurt him
he followed ali and tyson came after
the rocky marciano jockstrap comment
I recognize that it's hindsight, but it's a given that hindsight is allowed (and necessary) if you're talking about a fighter's place in history. As for Cooney's record, it was impressive against very weak competition plus shot and retiring (literally, after both fights) Ron Lyle (39 years old) and Ken Norton (37 1/2 and having won only 2 of his last 5 fights). It's a little like Jeff Lacy. Except replace the "Great White Hope" with the "Great American Hope."Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
Now I'm just waiting for Britkid and his superior knowlege of boxing history to tell me about the five great fighters on Cooney's record that I've never heard of. ;D
Well to play Devils Advocate... I cannot find five ;), but it should be noted he beat a Jimmy Young, who would rebound in 1982 to win The Ring's comeback of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
Cooney did what few could in disposing of Norton and Lyle. Sure they were past their best, but Cooney was awesome in that time period.
What!!! A prime George Foreman got his ears boxed off by Jimmy Young in March of 1977, and got dropped....a prime Holmes who's bigger, stronger, and with a piston jab, he eats Foreman up and knocks him OUT!!!!! TRUST ME!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
BK, Cooney was awesome in that time period, but Don King locked him out of big fights because King had all the other big name Heavies under contract and Cooney's people wouldn't sign with King, so King basically blackballed Cooney.Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
Just to take a moment away from this Foreman nutthugging...When George was asked why he didn't get a rematch with Ali his reply was "because I didn't want one"...does that sound like a guy who would have destroyed Ali anywhere but Zaire?...I was not an Ali "fan" either but he put people in the seats and to clarify it was Don King's idea to have the fight in Zaire not Ali's because Zaire guaranteed a purse that King could not deliver in the US (tax reasons also made Zaire Attractive to both Foreman and Ali)...Actually neither Ali or Foreman knew where the fight was to be held when Don King had them sign their conracts...It was Ali getting out amongst the people and marketing the event that made it such a one sided fan love affair, while George hid himself away and was barely visible...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Basically George was a great fighter and brutal puncher but flawed and was exposed by Ali(A younger Ali would have had the legs to box him senseless)...Later Ron Lyle and Jimmy Young further exposed George's short comings...IMO, Holmes would have been able to avoid George's big looping punches and punished him with jabs and straight rights and would have KO'd big george, like Ali did...
Tyson give him one hell of a beating holmes was a great fighter but not an all time great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel2smooth79
LOL...Holmes fought Tyson after a two year retirement and was fighting Tyson pretty much even until he got caught...Holmes held the heavyweight title for 7 years which makes him the 2nd longest reigning heavyweight champion in history(second only to Joe Louis), had 20 title defences and 26 title fights, and was 2nd only Marciano going 48-0(with tougher competition)...Holmes always fought the best fighters available ducking no one...
What makes an ATG in your opinion? I'm curious...
I see him as one of the greats.....he's one helluva fighter.....Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
That was post Ali, he wasn't in his prime he was still reeling from that loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic bull
In my opinion from 78 to 80 to 96 Foreman would have beaten the shit out of Larry Holmes who got rocked by Renaldo Snipes who had a 22 (11 KO)-0-0 record when they fought and you're telling me Foreman would have hurt Larry and got him out of there.
Foreman was a bully and no one knew how to fuck with bully's heads like Ali. Ali turned the crowd in Zaire against Foreman, he wouldn't let him leave the country because he was friends with the Dictator there, he did the same thing to Foreman he did to Liston. The thing is Foreman was better than Liston but what happened with the Rumble in The Jungle is all these outside factors added up and hurt his chances of winning where if the fight was in the US maybe the crowd wouldn't be as much of a factor, the ropes of course was another thing.
Holmes is an all-time great but he's no George Foreman
You really need to look at who these guys fought...Until Foreman's big win against Frazier his biggest win was against a well worn George Chuvalo...26 fights into his career Foreman was fighting guys like 0-14 Joe Murphy Goodwin or 4-18 Clarence Boone...it's actually hard to find guys with recoginzable names let alone winning records that George fought...that is until he fought Frazier and other than Frazier the only big punchers he fought were Chuvalo and Lyle...at the same points in their careers Holmes was fighting guys like Ernie Shavers(Who Foreman publicly stated he would never fight)...as a matter of fact Holmes only faced 3 people with losing records in his entire career! want to know how many big george faced?...answer: 17(19 if you in include his fat old years)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
So if you want to bring up Michael Spinks as a case against holmes you have to bring up Jimmy Young when speaking of Foreman since both fights occured at about the 49th fight of their careers...Foreman was 28 yrs old against Young as opposed to Holmes 36 yrs old against Spinks...oh yeah, Jimmy young had 8 KO's when he dropped Foreman and the same Jimmy Young was beaten by Randy Neuman(now a ref), Ernie Shavers(TKO), Roy Williams and Clay Hodges....
I'm a solid Fan of Big George but to dismiss an ATG like Larry Holmes saying he would have no chance is ridiculous...Larry would and should be favored if they fought in their primes...BTW; In their second comings Larry called Big George out and Foreman wanted no part of him...
actually i had holmes up by 1 round before he got caught at one point holmes danced around tyson and tyson almost tripped over hes own shoes prime holmes would of beat tyson i have got no doubt in my mindQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel2smooth79
Larry Holmes boxed like a great Heavyweight had the heart of achampion, at his peak was conditioned like a champion. He was at his best technicaly the best heavy I have seen.