Should we be worried? UFC taking over Boxing??

http://ringtalk.com/index.php?action...ments=1&id=795

UFC OVERTAKES BOXING & THE WWE AS WELL!

When “Super Dave” Meltzer of the www.WrestlingObserver.com appeared on “Ring Talk Radio” this past Sunday, he didn’t mention the Pay Per View numbers of the UFC 61 card featuring Tito Ortiz’ first round stoppage of Ken Shamrock. In the Wrestling Observer newsletter dated August 28, Meltzer says that the PPV numbers were 775,000 buys! This means the UFC 61 made better than $35 million when you count the live gate of $3,452,123.15. Keep in mind that the UFC had broken a record in June when UFC 61 (Matt Hughes KO 1 Royce Gracie) turned the PPV crank more than 600,000 times.


Is this a worry for Boxing?

My guess would be potential young Boxing Fans would turn to the Ufc rather than Boxing at this moment of time, with this increasing PPV sales and boxings struggling, ( Well the majority of Fights in comparision to these numbers) Should we be worried for it's future?

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Originally Posted by skel1983

http://ringtalk.com/index.php?action...ments=1&id=795

UFC OVERTAKES BOXING & THE WWE AS WELL!

When “Super Dave” Meltzer of the www.WrestlingObserver.com appeared on “Ring Talk Radio” this past Sunday, he didn’t mention the Pay Per View numbers of the UFC 61 card featuring Tito Ortiz’ first round stoppage of Ken Shamrock. In the Wrestling Observer newsletter dated August 28, Meltzer says that the PPV numbers were 775,000 buys! This means the UFC 61 made better than $35 million when you count the live gate of $3,452,123.15. Keep in mind that the UFC had broken a record in June when UFC 61 (Matt Hughes KO 1 Royce Gracie) turned the PPV crank more than 600,000 times.


Is this a worry for Boxing?

My guess would be potential young Boxing Fans would turn to the Ufc rather than Boxing at this moment of time, with this increasing PPV sales and boxings struggling, ( Well the majority of Fights in comparision to these numbers) Should we be worried for it's future?

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I think it is an issue, because I think fewer people are getting into actually boxing and instead going to MMA. Also the boxing establishment had it good for so long it is now a huge bloated cash sucking machine, 10 years from now it's gonna bankrupt itself as it's popularity continues to wane. Very rarely is there a PPV event worth the cost anymore, as we don't have any icon names left (with the exeption of de la Hoya if he fights again, and Holyfield)

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by skel1983

http://ringtalk.com/index.php?action...ments=1&id=795

UFC OVERTAKES BOXING & THE WWE AS WELL!

When “Super Dave” Meltzer of the www.WrestlingObserver.com appeared on “Ring Talk Radio” this past Sunday, he didn’t mention the Pay Per View numbers of the UFC 61 card featuring Tito Ortiz’ first round stoppage of Ken Shamrock. In the Wrestling Observer newsletter dated August 28, Meltzer says that the PPV numbers were 775,000 buys! This means the UFC 61 made better than $35 million when you count the live gate of $3,452,123.15. Keep in mind that the UFC had broken a record in June when UFC 61 (Matt Hughes KO 1 Royce Gracie) turned the PPV crank more than 600,000 times.


Is this a worry for Boxing?

My guess would be potential young Boxing Fans would turn to the Ufc rather than Boxing at this moment of time, with this increasing PPV sales and boxings struggling, ( Well the majority of Fights in comparision to these numbers) Should we be worried for it's future?

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I think it is an issue, because I think fewer people are getting into actually boxing and instead going to MMA. Also the boxing establishment had it good for so long it is now a huge bloated cash sucking machine, 10 years from now it's gonna bankrupt itself as it's popularity continues to wane. Very rarely is there a PPV event worth the cost anymore, as we don't have any icon names left (with the exeption of de la Hoya if he fights again, and Holyfield)

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Also i read that HBO say that there boxers to bring boxing back to the mainstream are Mayweather-Taylor and Hatton? I dont think so myself, when these new fans can see action packed fights where more often or not finishes with a brutal KO, rather than watch a boxing masterclass form Foyd Maywether? i no which one they will be picking, i think Boxing is not exciting enough for alot of fans in conparision to the UFC.

dont blame them to be honest , in UFC at least you get to see decent fights instead of in boxing where you wait years for fighters to face eachother and never do.

Boxings politics and greed is killing its self

I doubt there is anything to worry about.

I don't know how often a UFC event takes place but my understanding is that it's a whole bunch of fights on one card, about 4 months worth or so.

Trust me if PBF vs De La Hoya, Calzaghe vs Jones, Wlad vs Valuev, Pacman vs Berrara 2, Valero vs Morales and Hatton vs Castillo were all on one card it would get a lot more than 775,000 buys

I am probably being selfish.. but no it will not kill it off... in my life time.

Anyone who has the discipline to be a long term boxing fan, learns to love the politics.

What is the fun in getting everything you want?

I would much rather rip my hair out for years, debating the intangibles of a fight. And normally that turns out to be much more fun, than watching the fight itself.

True boxing fans really appreciate it when a big fight comes off...

These WWFE UFC (or what ever it is called) fans, will soon get bored when they have watched all that they have wanted to watch and there no intresting matches left ;)

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Originally Posted by Poom

dont blame them to be honest , in UFC at least you get to see decent fights instead of in boxing where you wait years for fighters to face eachother and never do.

Boxings politics and greed is killing its self

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I agree with the Politics and greed killing boxing......but when I want to watch mediocre fighters I watch UFC...

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I doubt there is anything to worry about.

I don't know how often a UFC event takes place but my understanding is that it's a whole bunch of fights on one card, about 4 months worth or so.

Trust me if PBF vs De La Hoya, Calzaghe vs Jones, Wlad vs Valuev, Pacman vs Berrara 2, Valero vs Morales and Hatton vs Castillo were all on one card it would get a lot more than 775,000 buys

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Of course that would be like a $999.99 PPV bill.............

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by Poom

dont blame them to be honest , in UFC at least you get to see decent fights instead of in boxing where you wait years for fighters to face eachother and never do.

Boxings politics and greed is killing its self

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I agree with the Politics and greed killing boxing......but when I want to watch mediocre fighters I watch UFC...

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Well politics has allegedly been killing boxing for maybe 200 years... ;)

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I doubt there is anything to worry about.

I don't know how often a UFC event takes place but my understanding is that it's a whole bunch of fights on one card, about 4 months worth or so.

Trust me if PBF vs De La Hoya, Calzaghe vs Jones, Wlad vs Valuev, Pacman vs Berrara 2, Valero vs Morales and Hatton vs Castillo were all on one card it would get a lot more than 775,000 buys

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Of course that would be like a $999.99 PPV bill.............

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it would be a helluva lot more entertaining....:)

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by Poom

dont blame them to be honest , in UFC at least you get to see decent fights instead of in boxing where you wait years for fighters to face eachother and never do.

Boxings politics and greed is killing its self

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I agree with the Politics and greed killing boxing......but when I want to watch mediocre fighters I watch UFC...

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Well politics has allegedly been killing boxing for maybe 200 years... ;)

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truwe...but you cannot tell me the human interest is as strong now as it was even 15 years ago...

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Originally Posted by bigragu

truwe...but you cannot tell me the human interest is as strong now as it was even 15 years ago...

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Of course, even I have lost intrest compared to 10/15 years ago...

But maybe with the exception of Football and Rugby Union (in the UK) every 'mainstream' sport (of the time) has suffered.

That is just how we have evolved as a people in the last 15 years IMO.

Boxing is a lot better and safer than it was 15 years ago IMO, it is just the 'Working Class' have more to entertain themselves now.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by bigragu

truwe...but you cannot tell me the human interest is as strong now as it was even 15 years ago...

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Of course, even I have lost intrest compared to 10/15 years ago...

But maybe with the exception of Football and Rugby Union (in the UK) every 'mainstream' sport (of the time) has suffered.

That is just how we have evolved as a people in the last 15 years IMO.

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maybe....which is why we are subject to friggin Texas Hold'em on ESPN here in the states on almost a nightly basis...or friggin darts....I love doing both....I was last rated at an 11 a few years back....but I hate watching them on the tele...

What most of these boxing fans wanna see is fighters who usually win by ko. They are looking for exciting fighters like Cotto,Juarez,Margarito and fighters who are just agressive and fun to watch. These fans don't know or care about the sweet science 8)

Give me a decent boxing match any day of the week. I don't know why but watching good boxing is much more entertaining and exciting to me than the best fights mma can offer, which I imagine is cro cop against fedor. Maybe because boxers are more skilled, or it's not just pure violence like I see many mma fights to be. In boxing one can't get a guy on the floor totally helpless and proceed to batter the sh*t out of him till the ref calls it quits. I mean sure you got tko's in boxing, but the guy is still at least on his feet when it happens and isn't being kicked in the balls and basically just battered/destroyed. Boxing has nothing to worry about, get a big name star who appeals to the masses ala tyson again and all will be good.

I dont know much about UFC is it fixed like WWE

the reason why ppl are thinking boxing is being taken over by wwe and ufc is cos:

WWE- make the best fight the best ( even though it is fake)

UFC - make the best fight the best

thats why ppl buy the PPV's, boxing should be going back to what it used to be. we need more Eubanks, James Toney's, Tysons to get the PPV's back.
guys with charisma who attract non boxing fans to the support.

I can't call it. I like UFC but I like boxing a lot better. If boxing died and went away, I would be crushed. If the UFC disassembled it's actagon and fold up it's tent, I would not care. But the UFC is huge today. Will it replace boxing? Never! These are apples and oranges. The only thing boxing needs is a boost on a local channel mainstream. Contender gave boxing a baby boost and a shot in the arm but it did not have the impact I was hoping it would. It was killed too quickly by coorporate assholes at NBC and terribly critizided by hard core boxing fans. We are our worst enemy. (JMO)

We need fighters who get ppls attention. like the fighter i mentioned above!
them guys made everyone wanna watch there fights. Especially Tyson. Biggest thing since ali.

ALSO THIS IS A BIG FACTOR....TOO MANY TITLES.

tHERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE CHAMP IN EACH DIVISION. THERE SHOULDNT BE A CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION.

NOWADAYS NO1 KNOWS WHO THE HW CHAMP IS. IN EVERY ERA UNTIL THE MILLENIUM, EVERY1 KNEW WHO THE CHAMP WAS. THE DOWNFALL FOR BOXING REALLY STARTED WHEN TYSON WAS KO'D. BUT WITH ALL THEM TITLES, NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE CHAMP IS. EVERYONE KNOWS WHO THE UFC HW CHAMP IS OR THE PRIDE CHAMP, COS THEY ONLY HAVE ONE AT EACH WEIGHT DIVISION.

EVEN JOE FRAZIER MENTIONED THIS IN HIS BOOK

i'll be worried when a ufc "champ" starts making 5+ million a fight.

anybody know what a ufc "champ" makes now?

in the lst PPV, ufc made 35million dollars. their fighters usually get paid quite sh1t. i have no idea what they got this time though. Pride is known to pay their fighters more. Its still less than a million.

Its been a while now, but once when Igor beat a fighter by the name of mark kerr, he was holding up a massive check, i cant remember wheather it said 500,000 or was it 5 million. this is pride we're talking about.

i said earlier

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ALSO THIS IS A BIG FACTOR....TOO MANY TITLES.

tHERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE CHAMP IN EACH DIVISION. THERE SHOULDNT BE A CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION.

NOWADAYS NO1 KNOWS WHO THE HW CHAMP IS. IN EVERY ERA UNTIL THE MILLENIUM, EVERY1 KNEW WHO THE CHAMP WAS. THE DOWNFALL FOR BOXING REALLY STARTED WHEN TYSON WAS KO'D. BUT WITH ALL THEM TITLES, NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE CHAMP IS. EVERYONE KNOWS WHO THE UFC HW CHAMP IS OR THE PRIDE CHAMP, COS THEY ONLY HAVE ONE AT EACH WEIGHT DIVISION.

EVEN JOE FRAZIER MENTIONED THIS IN HIS BOOK

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this is very important.

IMO, UFC is going slow down in a bit. It's being marketed as a brutal bloodsport, but as more and more of the top fighters in the world join the UFC, it's becoming a lot more technical and methodical. Joe Rogan and whoever he has in the booth do their best to try to conver a wrestling match as exciting but...we're getting a lot of boos now. And a lot of their big names are getting old, Lidell, Ortiz, Hughes, Shamrock, Franklin etc are getting old. It'll be interesting to see how Dana White adjust to this.

But the Ultimate Fighter is helping them A LOT. It's breathing new life and new names into the division, only problem is a lot of those guys will lose when they step up the competition. Diego Sanchez is the only guy who I think has potential to become a great champion, and he's not even that popular.

I don't know, but when Dana White bought the company 5 years ago, he has had astronomixal sucess into turning it into a cashcow by marketing it as a all out bloodsport. But with all the rule changes for safety, and the greatest skilled fighters coming up with less and less stand up by the minute, it'll be interesting to see how White turns it from special attraction to legit sport.

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

i'll be worried when a ufc "champ" starts making 5+ million a fight.

anybody know what a ufc "champ" makes now?

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When Evan Tanner made a title defense against David Terell a while back, Tanner made $30,000 with no bonus for winning. Terell made 15 and would have doubled that with a victory. So.....yeah.

I think yes boxing has big worries, while i prefer boxing to mma, the fighters in mma fight big name challenges each time out, you dont have to wait a year for a showdown unlike boxing which has become who can avoid who the longest. The cards are better, boxing theres one main even the rest of the fights suck. The huge amount of money boxers make can be partially to blame, poeple tired of ludicrous decisions, pay per view rahman makev are you kidding me??? I rest my case, I love boxing but they have begun to destroy it themselves, hell when one guy dominates you still scratch your head sometimes because you know the decison might be in question

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

i'll be worried when a ufc "champ" starts making 5+ million a fight.

anybody know what a ufc "champ" makes now?

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When Evan Tanner made a title defense against David Terell a while back, Tanner made $30,000 with no bonus for winning. Terell made 15 and would have doubled that with a victory. So.....yeah.

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Chuck Lidell makes 7 figures a year, but he's one of the very few with that big of a contract. In all honesty, I don't think it's UFC that's killing boxing. Boxing would have died even if UFC never existed. There's simply no more superstars, practically no sports media coverage, and virtually no champion with balls willing to take on all comers. The PPVs suck (I use to buy at least 6 ppvs a year, I've bought one the past 2 years), and the fact of the matter is young athletes just aren't going into boxing anymore. They're going into other sports. As much as I hate to say it, I wouldn't be surprised if 5 years from now I'm not even watching boxing anymore.

cool click smash, i agree totally I think mma will swallow it up because not because mma is all that great because boxing has declined, atletes not going into boxing, horrible corruption, bad marketing etc

I enjoy both sports. I don't feel that boxing is dying or going anywhere but I will say this: I have bought more MMA (Pride/UFC) ppv in the last year than all of the boxing PPV's over the past 3 years. I train in submission grappling so I enjoy some of the more technical aspects of ground fighting that bore some, but more to the point I feel like I get more for more money from MMA cards. They have 4 or more fights per PPV and they are all usually interesting in their significance good fights. Most boxing PPV's have 2 at the most. UFC and Pride show their fights(meaningful fights!) on free TV. It is very frustrating waiting for the big fights in boxing and the BS decisions that came along with it. The obvious strangulation of the sport by shoddy promoters and the hell spawn that are the alphabet orgs is really sickening. I can atest that getting my buddies in the Army to pitch in on a UFC/Pride PPV is much easier than a world championship boxing event. Boxing needs a governing body with one belt and one set of rankings. It needs an org that will govern it and provide a face to the public and give it more legitamacy and better PR or it will lose a young generation.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

I am probably being selfish.. but no it will not kill it off... in my life time.

Anyone who has the discipline to be a long term boxing fan, learns to love the politics.

What is the fun in getting everything you want?

I would much rather rip my hair out for years, debating the intangibles of a fight. And normally that turns out to be much more fun, than watching the fight itself.

True boxing fans really appreciate it when a big fight comes off...

These WWFE UFC (or what ever it is called) fans, will soon get bored when they have watched all that they have wanted to watch and there no intresting matches left ;)

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You may be on to something, Mr. Boxing Historian/Genius. UFC's biggest star, Chuck Liddell has already faced every other star in the UFC he can at his weightclass, Ortiz, Coutre 3 times, and now he is fighting a rematch with a guy he already KO'd. The only fight left for him is outside the organization with the Pride Champ, Silva. With boxing, there is always someone to fight. As soon as a champ beats another star, we are already going "okay, but how would he do against...." And it never ends. Also boxing is much mroe exciting on average than UFC/MMA. Often times MMA matches can be long boring affairs where the two fighters just grapple and do nothing for 90% of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by Britkid

I am probably being selfish.. but no it will not kill it off... in my life time.

Anyone who has the discipline to be a long term boxing fan, learns to love the politics.

What is the fun in getting everything you want?

I would much rather rip my hair out for years, debating the intangibles of a fight. And normally that turns out to be much more fun, than watching the fight itself.

True boxing fans really appreciate it when a big fight comes off...

These WWFE UFC (or what ever it is called) fans, will soon get bored when they have watched all that they have wanted to watch and there no intresting matches left ;)

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You may be on to something, Mr. Boxing Historian/Genius. UFC's biggest star, Chuck Liddell has already faced every other star in the UFC he can at his weightclass, Ortiz, Coutre 3 times, and now he is fighting a rematch with a guy he already KO'd. The only fight left for him is outside the organization with the Pride Champ, Silva. With boxing, there is always someone to fight. As soon as a champ beats another star, we are already going "okay, but how would he do against...." And it never ends. Also boxing is much mroe exciting on average than UFC/MMA. Often times MMA matches can be long boring affairs where the two fighters just grapple and do nothing for 90% of the fight.

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CC Hulk. Very good point. Especially at the end.

If you have no experience in wrestling/submissions, then I can see where you wouldn't find it entertaining, but I personally would rather see a good submission than a KO. Many of the sports hardcore fans have usually trained in wrestling or some othe martial art that focuses on submissions and where you see two guys rolling on the mat they see the science and skill envolved. Entertainment is purely subjective. Chuck has several options in front of him for future fights. There is the fight with Silva, a fight with Griffin, a rematch with Quinton Jackson and a fight with Rashad Evans. If UFC runs out of fighters they simply go out and sign somebody new, or use one of the Ultimate Fighter contestants.

Boxing is definitely in danger in the future IMO. I am in my early 20's and a lot of my friends know the names of Liddell, Tito Ortiz, Shamrock, etc; but mention any boxer other than DLH and maybe PBF and all I get is a black stare. I am really the only person I know who is a big fan of the sport.


I'm really not a big fan of UFC or MMA myself, I would take a good boxing match any day of the week. But UFC is a marketing machine and it's getting bigger and bigger and has a young, fresh fan base. Boxing's popularity is shrinking and the fan base is older.

I've seen a few articles over the years saying that UFC is becoming more popular than boxing and PPV numbers don't lie.

I think it's sad because imo boxing is a much better sport.

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

If you have no experience in wrestling/submissions, then I can see where you wouldn't find it entertaining, but I personally would rather see a good submission than a KO. Many of the sports hardcore fans have usually trained in wrestling or some othe martial art that focuses on submissions and where you see two guys rolling on the mat they see the science and skill envolved. Entertainment is purely subjective. Chuck has several options in front of him for future fights. There is the fight with Silva, a fight with Griffin, a rematch with Quinton Jackson and a fight with Rashad Evans. If UFC runs out of fighters they simply go out and sign somebody new, or use one of the Ultimate Fighter contestants.

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I'll take a good KO over a submission any day of the week. I've been watching UFC since the very first one, so I do know a thing or two about the sport. But like you said I don't have any expierence as a wrestler, nor did I take a martial art that focuses on submission. I can recognize submissions: arm bars, triangle chokes, kimoras, rear naked chokes etc. But I have not practiced them. And really do you think Forrest Griffin is a credible opponent? Could he beat Chuck? Evans I dunno anything about, or I'm drawin a blank. But Jackson rematch could be cool. Trust me that's not a lot of options though, IMO, its either Jackson or Silva.

I'm intrigued about all the hype around UFC/PRIDE/MMA etc. Can someone tell me a good place to start watching it? Recommend some fights? I don't think it'll overtake boxing simply because boxing is much bigger right?More boxers,morevariety,more possibilitys?Also,UFC matches are really short too!!

I think boxing needs an injection of real talent or the boxers with the real talent should fight each other more often to spark more life into the sport.

I like the politics that there is in the background of boxing it makes it more interesting come fight night. I'm not sure if the same long drawn-out sagas happen in UFC. Kids getting into fighting on the tely would get bored with that and are probably more interested in getting their quick fix of all out action on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by md

I think boxing needs an injection of real talent or the boxers with the real talent ...

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*grunts

Alllright!!! I'll go pro.









:box3:

I honestly believe UFC and cage fighting is worse that WWE !!

Those fights are even more predictable than HHH taking on Hulk Hogan !!

Why don't these fighters ever turn to real Boxing ?

Because they know that you need to be a real athlete with real discipline and real talent !!

Its a good question !!

But does anyone believe that 50 Cent is a better musician than Richard Wagner or Motzart just becuase he sold more albums lst year ??

Lowest common denominaitor and all that .................

Dont agree with you at all, how can you say that they arnt athletes!! the ufc is the top of the food chain in mma you have to be a super athlete to fight there, people can say what they want about mma but the reality is boxing is now gonna have somthing to contend with!!

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

I honestly believe UFC and cage fighting is worse that WWE !!

Those fights are even more predictable than HHH taking on Hulk Hogan !!

Why don't these fighters ever turn to real Boxing ?

Because they know that you need to be a real athlete with real discipline and real talent !!

Its a good question !!

But does anyone believe that 50 Cent is a better musician than Richard Wagner or Motzart just becuase he sold more albums lst year ??

Lowest common denominaitor and all that .................

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Matt Hughes, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman: all former NCAA collegiate wrestling all americans
Andrei Arlovski, Fedor Emelianko: World Sambo Champions
BJ Penn, Noguiera: Brazilian Jujitsu Pan American and World Champions
Mirko Filipovic, Mark Hunt: World Kick Boxing Champions
Karo Parysian: Nationally ranked Judo practitioner
Jeff Monson: Abu Dhabi submission grappling champion
Randy Couture: Olympic Greco Roman Wrestler
Rulon Gardner: Olympic old medalist in freestyle wrestling.

This is just a small sampling of MMA fighters. But I think it makes your statement about them not being world class atheletes look rather silly.

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

I can't call it. I like UFC but I like boxing a lot better. If boxing died and went away, I would be crushed. If the UFC disassembled it's actagon and fold up it's tent, I would not care. But the UFC is huge today. Will it replace boxing? Never! These are apples and oranges. The only thing boxing needs is a boost on a local channel mainstream. Contender gave boxing a baby boost and a shot in the arm but it did not have the impact I was hoping it would. It was killed too quickly by coorporate assholes at NBC and terribly critizided by hard core boxing fans. We are our worst enemy. (JMO)

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how right you are....another thing to be destroyed was the XFL....it was canned before it was even given a chance....the later games were great but people had already turned off the TV on it....