i say robinson by a ud
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i say robinson by a ud
At supermiddle ya mean?If so then RJJ definately too big and strong. Late stoppage.
RJJ would win a decision or late KO
Robinson knocks Jones out!!!
SRR UD or late TKO
All you SRR people who think he will win are foolhardy. RJJ is faster, stronger, and more skilled than SRR ever was.
The great thing about Robinson was his ability to adapt to any style. Robinson had it all he could box, punch & his chin was outstanding! Robinson only needed a single hook or cross & Jones would be out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Tell you what, I'll put a prime Jones against anybody pound for pound and win by a mile.
Sweet bro if that's how you see it, but P4P Robinson, Armstrong, Ali, Louis, Duran, Pep & Greb beat him hands down. Hell I say even Spinks knocks him out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintymen
Prime vs. Prime, No doubt SRR.
Actually at any point in any weight SRR.
RJJ career compared to SRR falls REALLY short. IMO 8)
cc bro, Robinson is the standard by which all fighters are judged!Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
I've never in my life seen an athlete who did so little and somehow have so many sackriders like Roy Jones. Great fighter but let's get real here. Robinson was on another level.
Even the man in your avatar P4P gets advantage over RJJ. IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxy76
CC. Back galaxy76
At middleweight prime for prime, Sugar Ray wins.
The guy was just to good. Even, imo, if he was fighting today, he would still be one of the best fighters in the world. He's that timeless type of fighter. He was...perfect. He had no weaknesses. Seriously, the only weekness imo, is that he was a bit of a premadonna and I don't think he took all his fights seriously. But since when has RJJ taken all his fights seriously?
RJJ had a leaky defense, and his chin wasn't the best, and I'm not to sure how much faster then he was then SRR. And at middleweight, no way was he stronger. Spectacular fighter no doubt, but he just wasn't Sugar Ray. Sugar Ray had everything, perfect balance, perfect speed, perfect power, perfect defense, amazing stamina (I'm not counting the Maxim fight). He was the total package. RJJ wasn't.
Not to many fighters from different eras do I think could come to this age of technology and high tech training and still be a great champion. Willie Pep could. Ali Could. And Sugar Ray Robinson could.
Chur bro, Lopez was a great little man! I heard once that Jones himself said Lopez should have been #1 P4P when everyone was rating Jones the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
We aren't talking "resume's" here. We're talking about size, power and speed. And I'm sorry but Ray was a master of the basics at a time when the other fighters he fought weren't. Ray had ability but you go 30 years and nowadays if you put a fighter in the ring who fought the same way as Ray had the same speed same body type, same structure, and he would be beaten within 20 fights.
Different styles. Let me ask you when has Ray fought anyone as fast as he is or that hits harder? ;) OR as hard as Jones. I think Jones would have beaten Ray and this isn't on "resumes" but sheer ability, style and size, speed and power, Roy had it all. Robinson did too..but for "his era" and dimensions have advanced since then.
Robinson peaked at 147; Jones at 168, so Jones walks it...
mintymen dont u think ur overrating him a bit hes good fighter but not an alltime great by any meansQuote:
Originally Posted by Mintymen
Robinson wins. Forget his otherworldly talent, his sheer being was a cut above any level Jones could ever dream of reaching.
No he would not. I REALLY don't beleive that and I have a hard time thinking that very many would agree with you. Ray Robinson was ages ahead of his time as far as boxing goes. BK was right about 147 and Robinson peaking, but I watch Robinson fights and I see a guy who if he fought today, would be a P4P top fighter. He made no mistakes. The only L's on his record are fights he didn't take seriously and showed up the day of without even knowing who it was he was fighting. He had no flaws in his system like RJJ did, he had the fundamentals mastered, RJJ didn't, and he had pinpoint accuracy, beautiful combos, brilliant speed (even by today's standards) and strength to match.Quote:
Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes
SRR at 160 beats RJJ by UD imo.
And SRR beats everyone but MAYBE Mayweather at 147/154 today. But the jury is still out on Mayweather.
I think what angel is saying and you're missing is, those fundamentals he mastered meant nothing compared to someone like Roy Jones - Robinson had never seen anyone like him much less fight. Yes SRR was lightyears ahead of his time but if he fought today he wouldn't be, just the simple truth IMO. Would he still dominate? Sure you bet your ass but he'd have a few losses too. And because of their size difference this match is a bit unfair, and the chance of it going the distance if Roy was determined to end the fight, is very low partly because of that fact alone. Thats not even mentioning Roy's physical superiority - yes he was bigger so the standard is that he should be slower but not in RJ's case. People can preach Roy Jones and fundamentals all day long but the fact is he made a career of making good fighters whether you like to believe it or not - look ordinary without the use of fundamentals. As far as the styles colliding I can't really comment, no earthly clue how it would turn out but you know what I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
size matters O0
I see both your points but Robinson wasn't "flawless" or he never would have lost a fight. More or less it was fighters with a style similar to a Roy Jones that would and did give Robinson trouble, like the guy he fought in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I know SRR is one of the greatest fighters of all time but he was also one of the greatest fighters in "his" time. This is a time that nobody had seen anyone fight the way Robinson did, and nobody had a gameplan on how to beat that style of Robinson.
But fast forward past Robinson
You had Ali, Holmes, Leonard and Hearns, Tyson.
You had more diversity within styles then you had in Ray Robinson's era.
Fact of the matter is, Ray fought great competition, but he didn't fight anyone as fast, as powerful as quick or with the agility of Roy Jones Jr. Because mainly fighters back then weren't trained in the same ways as fighters are now(I hope I got that out right).
Ray is disadvantaged to go through 40 years of advancement in the sweet science and he wouldn't know what to do with Roy Jones Jr. Robinson mastered the fundamentals at a time when about 95 percent of the fighters in those classes he dominated didn't do the same thing. I don't think that Robinson could deal with the size power and speed of Roy, who was faster then Robinson was when Roy was even at 168 and 175. Actually Robinson started as a welterweight and Roy was just a weight class above him when he started. But Robinson peaked as a Welterweight, and Roy peaked as a Super Middleweight, though great and one of the best when you look at his resume and the fighters he fought. Boxing is about styles, and Ray wouldn't have been able to deal with the style of Roy Jones Jr. And that is NOT saying that Ray isn't a better fighter. Jones' style just foils him.
Let's stop trying to act as if Roy Jones saw anything remotely close to Ray Robinson as well ;)
Robinson was a ten times Greater...Quote:
Originally Posted by smashcrusher
But evolution means RJJ was better ;)
Then we agree to disagree. I see Robinson as being greater AND better ;)
Well I have to say I think Roy Jones JR is the best boxer ever to put on boxing Gloves...Quote:
Originally Posted by smashcrusher
I think why so many peopel like him is cos watching him box is such a joy,it is fantastic to watch and i hope other Jones fans will agree with me when i say this but watching him fight when he is on top of his game is mezmarising...I have never seen someone with so much talent in a boxing ring...I suppose some people just dont get it when they watch him...I am glad I have cos so entertaining......
What are you tlaking about... RObinson tried against Lamotta... he didn't just pass him up the first time ,and had other hard fights against Lamotta... Jones didn't train even close to as hard as other fighters because he lost his interest and still came in stronger, faster than anyone p4p we've ever seen... RObinson did make technical mistakes its just people couldn't take advantage of his flaws back then, but Lamotta could hit him with big combination of punches that Roy Jones, Whitaker, Mayweather, Hopkins have never been caught with. Robinson for his era is p4p the best ever, but he loses against many fighters over the past twenty five years who have fought between 147-160. To name a few Hopkins, Duran, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Wright, Toney, RJJ, Whitaker, now Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Ah yes. It wouldn't be a Roy Jones post without the pathetic "Roy only lost because he didn't train" angle in there. This thread is now complete ;D
This thr3ad is hilarious lol!
SRR was not the greatest middleweight but he was at welterweight and possibly p4p. Roy could possibly win.
Who's better P4P?
SRR is what us boxing fans have been programmed and I think he was. He was never knocked out or down I think and could punch at all weights.
Ray robinson would have got mirked by Roy. Just make sure the fight was indoor so he wouldnt quit.
You do know it was so hot that the ref had to be changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Not to mention Ray was 40 plus and waaaaay past his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou do know it was so hot that the ref had to be changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Ray was well ahead on the scorecards, though. If the fight had continued, he would have won.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09Not to mention Ray was 40 plus and waaaaay past his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou do know it was so hot that the ref had to be changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
They get more and more ridiculous everytime...
Roy by early KO, easy work.
When did any fighter have an easy night against Robinson?Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
@Master
Come on man, when did Robinson fight anybody a tenth as good as Roy!
Roy also massively outsizes him as well as being so far superior in skillset you might as well put a crippled in front of Roy!
I like Robinson and I'm sure he'd still kick an ass or 2 but he aint competing with top fighters his own size let alone among the greatest fighters a few weight classes above him. That's crazy!
Hahaha. Yeah, easy ko for Roy.... Definitely. Just look at the other big names Roy knocked out: Thomas Tate, Percy Harris, Vinny Paz, Bryant Brannon, Tony Thornton. Oh man, those guys were ATG fighters on Robinsons level for sure!
It's one thing to say Roy could compete or cause problems, but an early knockout?!? U r either a troll or new to the sport. Robinson fought prime Hall of Fame killers like Jake Lamotta, Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, Kid Gavilan, fritzie zivic, Rocky Graziano, and Sammy Angott and he knocked them many of them out. He was too tough for Roy, who was talented but never had the mindset to walk someone down n pound out a hard fight.
The elite fighters Roy fought (Hop, Toney) at worst would lose a decision. Roy never stopped one elite opponent n there is no way he stops the GOAT. Roy was a bigger man so maybe he catches Rat on the right night n gets a decision, but he loses the rematches by stoppage because Ray was more than just speed and an awkward style.