Difference between a knowledgeable fan and a "hater."

I think I did a thread like this once before, but here goes again:

I'm a boxing fan. I'm an unabashed Tito fan and damn proud of it. He brought glory to a little island that already has had more than its share of champions over the years. Yes, little Puerto Rico is a boxing power to be reckoned with. And IMHO, Tito always conducted himself with class, which is more than I can say for some of the punks that some people in here idolize. And I'll defend Tito's record to the end. And like it or not, Tito was fun to watch. Boxing misses him.

Now to my point... I'm man enough to admit that Tito would've had trouble with a number of fighters. There's a thread about Tito and Taylor. Hey, I'm not blind. Tito's not a true middleweight. Yes, he DID beat a very good middleweight in Joppy (by KO, I might add, not a gift decision over some German dude). So yeah, I feel Tito would probably lose to Taylor. Taylor's extremely fast, and packs power in both hands. His losses to Hopkins were an indication that he has a lot to learn, but he'll get there.

By contrast, we have our "knowledgeable" posters (you know who you are). Their analysis goes something like this: "Tito sucks... I hate Tito.... I'm glad he lost to Hopkins and Taylor.... he's arrogant (this one makes me laugh... you guys know Spanish, do you?). You have no real facts, just hate talk. It makes you look foolish, not to mention probably some snot-nosed teenagers who don't know sh*t about boxing or its history. Yeah, you... the guys that think boxing didn't exist before Tyson.

But all is not bleak. These ignoramuses are in the minority. I've seen the majority of you are pretty evenhanded, even when critizicing a fighter and even when you don't like him.

Any way, I got THAT off my chest. Now carry on, people.

I don't even think that this post really needs much from ole' Wacko in return...nothing more than this: :appl:

:coolclick:

Thanks wack.... allow me to give you your 2100th. Always a pleasure exchanging boxing chat with you. I enjoy the mutual respect for each other's opinions (which neither of us is shy in voicing).

;D

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Thanks wack.... allow me to give you your 2100th. Always a pleasure exchanging boxing chat with you. I enjoy the mutual respect for each other's opinions (which neither of us is shy in voicing).

;D

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Think nothing of it babe. I'm glad we got you on board. Stick around & keep it coming. Nothing wrong with opinions as long as you voice em with respect.

In the end...yes Tito was good for boxing...I just think that right now...maybe it's time that he stopped competing with the elite or either just stay the hell away from a pure boxer. Maybe he needs a better match maker...think about it...maybe he should say to hell with fighting Oscar in a rematch & just sign on & join the team.

Has anyone not stopped to take the time & recognize that Oscar's got a hell of a roster on GBP & that it just get's fatter & better each month? He just signed JMM. That's nice.

Good post, :coolclick: you make a very good point about Tito as a Middleweight, same thing with Hatton, he fought a bigger man at Welterweight and won, Hatton very lucky to pull it off , because he is not a Welterweight ! But you see fans in here always talking about he needs to fight the Welterweights… I say no way, stay at the weight you fight best in and retire at that weight, why move up? Plenty of good fights in the low weight classes. If The other guys want to fight, come on down !

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Thanks wack.... allow me to give you your 2100th. Always a pleasure exchanging boxing chat with you. I enjoy the mutual respect for each other's opinions (which neither of us is shy in voicing).

;D

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Think nothing of it babe. I'm glad we got you on board. Stick around & keep it coming. Nothing wrong with opinions as long as you voice em with respect.

In the end...yes Tito was good for boxing...I just think that right now...maybe it's time that he stopped competing with the elite or either just stay the hell away from a pure boxer. Maybe he needs a better match maker...think about it...maybe he should say to hell with fighting Oscar in a rematch & just sign on & join the team.

Has anyone not stopped to take the time & recognize that Oscar's got a hell of a roster on GBP & that it just get's fatter & better each month? He just signed JMM. That's nice.

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I agree with Tito not coming back. In my eyes, he has nothing left to prove. Besides, if your head's not in it (and believe me, Tito totally fits that category), you shouldn't bother coming back. I for one wouldn't want for Tito to tarnish what was an awesome career. As for joining GBP, why not? It would keep him in the game he's loved all his life.

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

Good post, :coolclick: you make a very good point about Tito as a Middleweight, same thing with Hatton, he fought a bigger man at Welterweight and won, Hatton very lucky to pull it off , because he is not a Welterweight ! But you see fans in here always talking about he needs to fight the Welterweights… I say no way, stay at the weight you fight best in and retire at that weight, why move up? Plenty of good fights in the low weight classes. If The other guys want to fight, come on down !

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CC, Lords Gym. I must admit I was one of the people that were totally caught up in Tito's KO destruction of Joppy. I thought after watching Tito easily take care of a legitimate middleweight fighter and once champion, that the sky was the limit. Unfortunately, the Hopkins and Winky fights brought me back to Earth (sigh).

:coolclick:

yeah i respect any poster as long as they intelligently attempt to back their claim. that being said lets now have the John Ruiz fans arise from the witness protection program.

CC.

I have A LOT of opinions, but a lot of the time I find myself not posting them because I don't have facts to back them up. I would have no problem saying that Tito was a bum if I had points to support it. I think when you make blind statement without any supporting argument, that's when you become a "hater" or a....bad poster. Now I'm not saying you HAVE to provide points, but if called upon, you have to post them. That's a good poster.

Trinidad is a class act...too bad he got all the bad rap about the handwraps though...IMO I don't think it would matter one way or the other

This is funny because every time Tito spoke, it was with respect. I know how you feel and I also hate posters who spread hatefull lies.
I am Mexican so it was hard to appreciate Tito. You know Mexicans and Puerto Ricans always fueding. That aint my style.
My favorite fighter today is some young man named Miguel Angel Cotto. Not sure if you have heard of him or not? :)~

I am with you and I loved your point. Manscaredo fans are the same way.

You are not alone and your frustration is felt, I can relate.

Paz. I would CC you but I dont have the power. hehehhee

Paz X 2

Tito was a brillant fighter, always had that heart to keep getting up from a knock down. I would have preferred him to fight Hopkins again after the Cherifi victory instead of retiring. I think the layoff affected him more than the loss to Hopkins!

Excellent post Titofan,you should be here more often brother,CC. I am often labelled a hater but how can I be if I like the fighter but I am critical of him & use facts to back it up. ???
The word hater is used far far too much in my opinion and your example of what is and is not hating illustrates the point very well bro.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Excellent post Titofan,you should be here more often brother,CC. I am often labelled a hater but how can I be if I like the fighter but I am critical of him & use facts to back it up. ???
The word hater is used far far too much in my opinion and your example of what is and is not hating illustrates the point very well bro.

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shiiiiiiiiit u want to talk about hater???? i get sad clicked cuz i got FREE RINGSIDE seats and i offer to buy anyone on this Fin site free wings and beer if they come down for GRAND FINALE now thats HATIN!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Excellent post Titofan,you should be here more often brother,CC. I am often labelled a hater but how can I be if I like the fighter but I am critical of him & use facts to back it up. ???
The word hater is used far far too much in my opinion and your example of what is and is not hating illustrates the point very well bro.

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shiiiiiiiiit u want to talk about hater???? i get sad clicked cuz i got FREE RINGSIDE seats and i offer to buy anyone on this Fin site free wings and beer if they come down for GRAND FINALE now thats HATIN!!!!!!!!!

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we gonna offset that shit right now with a dose of Cool Clicks ! fuk them haters !

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Excellent post Titofan,you should be here more often brother,CC. I am often labelled a hater but how can I be if I like the fighter but I am critical of him & use facts to back it up. ???
The word hater is used far far too much in my opinion and your example of what is and is not hating illustrates the point very well bro.

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shiiiiiiiiit u want to talk about hater???? i get sad clicked cuz i got FREE RINGSIDE seats and i offer to buy anyone on this Fin site free wings and beer if they come down for GRAND FINALE now thats HATIN!!!!!!!!!

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we gonna offset that S*** right now with a dose of Cool Clicks ! fuk them haters !

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COOL CLICK back LORDS GYM but id rather treat u to them wings and beer and have ya clock all the fine pinays from all over the world me

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Excellent post Titofan,you should be here more often brother,CC. I am often labelled a hater but how can I be if I like the fighter but I am critical of him & use facts to back it up. ???
The word hater is used far far too much in my opinion and your example of what is and is not hating illustrates the point very well bro.

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shiiiiiiiiit u want to talk about hater???? i get sad clicked cuz i got FREE RINGSIDE seats and i offer to buy anyone on this Fin site free wings and beer if they come down for GRAND FINALE now thats HATIN!!!!!!!!!

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we gonna offset that S*** right now with a dose of Cool Clicks ! fuk them haters !

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COOL CLICK back LORDS GYM but id rather treat u to them wings and beer and have ya clock all the fine pinays from all over the world me

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right on ! cheers brother ! :beerchug:

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

This is funny because every time Tito spoke, it was with respect. I know how you feel and I also hate posters who spread hatefull lies.
I am Mexican so it was hard to appreciate Tito. You know Mexicans and Puerto Ricans always fueding. That aint my style.
My favorite fighter today is some young man named Miguel Angel Cotto. Not sure if you have heard of him or not? :)~

I am with you and I loved your point. Manscaredo fans are the same way.

You are not alone and your frustration is felt, I can relate.

Paz. I would CC you but I dont have the power. hehehhee

Paz X 2

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well LET me help, have a CC my latino bro


I came to think that is not just hate some are just a bunch of ignorance you know when you type in any forum you think before you type right? So if the think when they type imagine how the would speak( a bunch of moronic stuff)

I#m feeling the love here brothers and P4Pbro,that is hating of the highest order!!! CC's on me!!

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

This is funny because every time Tito spoke, it was with respect. I know how you feel and I also hate posters who spread hatefull lies.
I am Mexican so it was hard to appreciate Tito. You know Mexicans and Puerto Ricans always fueding. That aint my style.
My favorite fighter today is some young man named Miguel Angel Cotto. Not sure if you have heard of him or not? :)~

I am with you and I loved your point. Manscaredo fans are the same way.

You are not alone and your frustration is felt, I can relate.

Paz. I would CC you but I dont have the power. hehehhee

Paz X 2

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A heartfelt round of Cool Clicks to all who've posted on this thread. I can't help noticing how only FANS have posted, whereas our resident HATERS have conveniently stayed away. (Must be saying to themselves: "No... uh-uh... that's not me, man.").

As for Danny G, lots of respect bro. I'm Puerto Rican and I'm fully aware of the rivalry between our countries. Been lots of great champions on BOTH sides. And it takes a level-headed fan to recognize good qualities in fighters from rival countries. So when you say: "... every time Tito spoke, it was with respect.", not only are you correct, but I admire how candid you are about it. And how interesting how your favorite fighter of today is Miguel Cotto. I myself have a list of what I consider to be my favorite Mexican fighters. And that list includes two boxers I've always respected, not only for their abilities, but for their class: Ricardo "Finito" Lopez, and Marco Antonio Barrera.

At the same time, I AM a fan... so there's some Mexican fighters I've rooted heavily against at one time or another, such as Fernando Vargas (especially when he fought Tito) and in earlier times: Julio Cesar Chavez (I was devastated when he beat Edwin "Chapo" Rosario).

So a bit of national pride and rivalry is not bad... as long as it doesn't go to extremes or affect the objectiveness with which one should judge fighters.

I tend to reserve my biggest dislike for those fighters that are disrespectful or just plain jerks. Nowadays, Zab Judah and James Toney are just a couple that come to mind.

But anyway, enough blabbering. Have a CC on me.

Gracias TitoFan.

I am speechless ;D

Whatsup Titofan,

As a Mexican American fightfan I gotta say that the only reason these two countries feud it out in the ring is because outside of the US (which they contribute to) they have the proudest pugilistic traditions in the world.

I agree with two of your points that A) Trinidad was an exciting fighter and that B) Oscar had no business going to 160.

But speaking of gift decisions......

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Originally Posted by a harmful of swallows

outside of the US (which they contribute to) they have the proudest pugilistic traditions in the world.

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:o

The UK has by far the proudest tradition in the sport, we did after all invent all four major forms of it!

(Fig(g)'s, Broughton's, London Prize and Queensberry Rules)

We have a near 300 year pedigree in the modern sport. ;)

True, the Brits did invent the sport, but I agree that the Mexicans probably have the proudest modern tradition (in the pros anyway, because I think the Cubans have by far the proudest 'amateur' traditions)

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Originally Posted by X

True, the Brits did invent the sport, but I agree that the Mexicans probably have the proudest modern tradition (in the pros anyway, because I think the Cubans have by far the proudest 'amateur' traditions)

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That's an interesting thought about the cubans and it had never crossed my mind. They would probably produce plenty of good if not great fighters for our enjoyment if not for the political status of their country. I think though that if they allowed to travel freely for sporting reasons, they would have an adjustment period because so many of them are suited for the amateur style and are used to just trying to rack up points.

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Excellent post Titofan,you should be here more often brother,CC. I am often labelled a hater but how can I be if I like the fighter but I am critical of him & use facts to back it up. ???
The word hater is used far far too much in my opinion and your example of what is and is not hating illustrates the point very well bro.

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shiiiiiiiiit u want to talk about hater???? i get sad clicked cuz i got FREE RINGSIDE seats and i offer to buy anyone on this Fin site free wings and beer if they come down for GRAND FINALE now thats HATIN!!!!!!!!!

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MAAAN! Imagine if you would've offered to buy everyone a ringside seat, you wouldve been banned off the internet and the authorities would've took your computer. lol. But man, the hate is out of control.

I think a true fan would call boxing down the middle. One of my closest friends hates Ali with a passion, never EVER liked him, but will always say he was one of the greatest. A true fan would be a fan of the sport before the fan of a fighter, i think.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I think I did a thread like this once before, but here goes again:

I'm a boxing fan. I'm an unabashed Tito fan and damn proud of it. He brought glory to a little island that already has had more than its share of champions over the years. Yes, little Puerto Rico is a boxing power to be reckoned with. And IMHO, Tito always conducted himself with class, which is more than I can say for some of the punks that some people in here idolize. And I'll defend Tito's record to the end. And like it or not, Tito was fun to watch. Boxing misses him.

Now to my point... I'm man enough to admit that Tito would've had trouble with a number of fighters. There's a thread about Tito and Taylor. Hey, I'm not blind. Tito's not a true middleweight. Yes, he DID beat a very good middleweight in Joppy (by KO, I might add, not a gift decision over some German dude). So yeah, I feel Tito would probably lose to Taylor. Taylor's extremely fast, and packs power in both hands. His losses to Hopkins were an indication that he has a lot to learn, but he'll get there.

By contrast, we have our "knowledgeable" posters (you know who you are). Their analysis goes something like this: "Tito sucks... I hate Tito.... I'm glad he lost to Hopkins and Taylor.... he's arrogant (this one makes me laugh... you guys know Spanish, do you?). You have no real facts, just hate talk. It makes you look foolish, not to mention probably some snot-nosed teenagers who don't know sh*t about boxing or its history. Yeah, you... the guys that think boxing didn't exist before Tyson.

But all is not bleak. These ignoramuses are in the minority. I've seen the majority of you are pretty evenhanded, even when critizicing a fighter and even when you don't like him.

Any way, I got THAT off my chest. Now carry on, people.

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My only beef about Trinidad is ( I have said it before and will always say it ) he retired after each of his losses...Though he showed a lot of heart while in the ring and never quit or took the easy way out like many fighters he did call it quits...Why I don't know? He is healthy and able to fight...I said this in another thread...Tito's actions by retireing after his losses remind me of a kid who takes his toy's home because the game isn't going his way....As far as in the ring he was a great champion who always entertained...

I think my favorite Hater post of all time was an arguement I had with a guy on another forum over Zab Judah....It was about his actions in the ring after the Tszyu fight he tried to tell me Nady deserved what he got for stopping the fight to soon...When I asked him how in the world could you think Judah was OK and able to fight on after falling down twice and doing a dance..His reply was simply...YO He was from Brooklyn and you can't stop fighters from brooklyn

good post TitoFan i am a trinidad faN to the death too

he has had some great fights and had some crushing defeatas
but he was a class act. maby a little too rough at the touch gloves at the start of fight but he was
the best at handing people their asses on a silver plate.

god bless tito and hope he does well

he is one of a kind

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

My only beef about Trinidad is ( I have said it before and will always say it ) he retired after each of his losses...Though he showed a lot of heart while in the ring and never quit or took the easy way out like many fighters he did call it quits...Why I don't know? He is healthy and able to fight...I said this in another thread...Tito's actions by retireing after his losses remind me of a kid who takes his toy's home because the game isn't going his way....As far as in the ring he was a great champion who always entertained...

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And I can respect an opinion voiced like that. For the record, Tito's retirements after his losses bothered me too. It was frustrating as hell, especially when I knew that physically, Tito still had a lot left. But that's where I emphasize the importance of "state of mind." Particularly with the Winky fight, it was clear to see that Tito's mind wasn't into it anymore. If that happens, for ANY reason, you're better off retired.

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Originally Posted by TheChosenOne

good post TitoFan i am a trinidad faN to the death too

he has had some great fights and had some crushing defeatas
but he was a class act. maby a little too rough at the touch gloves at the start of fight but he was
the best at handing people their asses on a silver plate.

god bless tito and hope he does well

he is one of a kind

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Thanks, TCO. Nice to hear those kinds of sentiments about a truly great fighter and a class act, as you said.

:coolclick:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I think I did a thread like this once before, but here goes again:

I'm a boxing fan. I'm an unabashed Tito fan and damn proud of it. He brought glory to a little island that already has had more than its share of champions over the years. Yes, little Puerto Rico is a boxing power to be reckoned with. And IMHO, Tito always conducted himself with class, which is more than I can say for some of the punks that some people in here idolize. And I'll defend Tito's record to the end. And like it or not, Tito was fun to watch. Boxing misses him.

Now to my point... I'm man enough to admit that Tito would've had trouble with a number of fighters. There's a thread about Tito and Taylor. Hey, I'm not blind. Tito's not a true middleweight. Yes, he DID beat a very good middleweight in Joppy (by KO, I might add, not a gift decision over some German dude). So yeah, I feel Tito would probably lose to Taylor. Taylor's extremely fast, and packs power in both hands. His losses to Hopkins were an indication that he has a lot to learn, but he'll get there.

By contrast, we have our "knowledgeable" posters (you know who you are). Their analysis goes something like this: "Tito sucks... I hate Tito.... I'm glad he lost to Hopkins and Taylor.... he's arrogant (this one makes me laugh... you guys know Spanish, do you?). You have no real facts, just hate talk. It makes you look foolish, not to mention probably some snot-nosed teenagers who don't know sh*t about boxing or its history. Yeah, you... the guys that think boxing didn't exist before Tyson.

But all is not bleak. These ignoramuses are in the minority. I've seen the majority of you are pretty evenhanded, even when critizicing a fighter and even when you don't like him.

Any way, I got THAT off my chest. Now carry on, people.

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Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it helps if you back it up with some kind of argument, but it is not mandatory, even if surely this is what a forum is for?

Trinidad was a very exciting fighter in the 90s, and at one stage was vying to be the best fighter in the world, and he was the first non Olympic, American or British fighter I followed from day one, who lived up to his hype.

But when a fighter becomes as good as Trinidad, he gets thrust into a debate where you need to compare him with the true Greats of the sport, all-time. So a lot of the time Trinidad is coming in for some criticism and sometimes some rough/vicious criticism; but if I was a big fan of his, i would take this as a compliment...

It is like saying, we know Trinidad is far too good for a Blocker, Taylor or Carr, the only way you can have digs at him, is if you put in there with Robinson, Leonard and Napoles ;)

Long time no see Gents, hope alls well with you all. Brit kid ,Lyle whazup.

I can only think of the punks who boo any fighter/warrior, into any arena when talking about this stuff.

And the comments printed down that someone wouldnt have the balls to say to the fighter to his face.

Dead give aways to some peoples one eyed fight mentality.

Agreed - the vast majority of boxers are brave, fit and dedicated young (ish) guys. Brave enough to put their health and livelihood on the line for our entertainment and risking embarrassment, humiliation and abuse.

The very few who get to the top are among the elite athletes in the world.

Personal abuse, insults, stereotypes and ignorant comments from fat armchair fans reflect more on those stupid specimens than on the fighters!!

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Originally Posted by Andre

Long time no see Gents, hope alls well with you all. Brit kid ,Lyle whazup.

I can only think of the punks who boo any fighter/warrior, into any arena when talking about this stuff.

And the comments printed down that someone wouldnt have the balls to say to the fighter to his face.

Dead give aways to some peoples one eyed fight mentality.

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Nice to here from you again Andre, hope things are going well down under

:sadclick: ;)

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Originally Posted by X

Agreed - the vast majority of boxers are brave, fit and dedicated young (ish) guys. Brave enough to put their health and livelihood on the line for our entertainment and risking embarrassment, humiliation and abuse.

The very few who get to the top are among the elite athletes in the world.

Personal abuse, insults, stereotypes and ignorant comments from fat armchair fans reflect more on those stupid specimens than on the fighters!!

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Amen brother. That is absolutely my attitude to boxing. Whenever I am at a fight, whoever is fighting, i will always applaud both fighters, because it takes guts, balls, dedication and all those things that make great men to step through those ropes. Whatever their arrogance, cockiness, rudeness or dirty tactics, i will always respect them for going through those ropes and fighting. Even with Naz Hamed, my least favourite fighter of recent times, who lost it so dramatically, throwing away much of what he had, he still had a bellyful of guts, and bundles of talent, and for that he has my grudging respect.

As for the insults and personal abuse, I don't think I've gone that far, but a bit of gentle mockery and teasing is always welcome....especially when someone like James Toney gets so riled by it :p

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Originally Posted by galaxy76

Tito was a brillant fighter, always had that heart to keep getting up from a knock down. I would have preferred him to fight Hopkins again after the Cherifi victory instead of retiring. I think the layoff affected him more than the loss to Hopkins!

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:coolclick: Spot On!

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by Andre

Long time no see Gents, hope alls well with you all. Brit kid ,Lyle whazup.

I can only think of the punks who boo any fighter/warrior, into any arena when talking about this stuff.

And the comments printed down that someone wouldnt have the balls to say to the fighter to his face.

Dead give aways to some peoples one eyed fight mentality.

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Nice to here from you again Andre, hope things are going well down under

:sadclick: ;)

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:sadclick: ;) Good work :) Thanks,have a cool one.
Things have been testy to say the least.
Familys gettings old usual stuff that comes and goes with that is all,no problem ;).

I was impressed by some of your commonwealth games fighters who came down under a while ago.(the last fights I've been to) !
More impressed by the supporters there though. One fella from Swiftys fans sang at the top of his voice, yelling the national anthem! The whole crowd got used to him and just turned and faced him instead of the flag. Made my day, funny bloke.
;) wasnt you was it?

Typical exchange between FAN and HATER on this forum:

FAN: I think Joe Doe is a better fighter than John Smith.

HATER: F*** you, FAN!! You don't know sh** about boxing!! Joe Doe is a jacka$$. I hate his guts!! He sucks!!

FAN: Well, for one thing... Doe's record is better than Smith's. He's fought better fighters and has more knockout power.

HATER: That's bulls***!! F*** Joe Doe!! He ain't s***!! Smith's the best p4p fighter in the history of the universe!!

FAN: Smith's pretty good, but he's no way the best p4p fighter in the universe. He's got some flaws. He tends to slap with the left and doesn't go to the body enough.

HATER: F***ing bulls***!!!!! You're an a$$h***!! Damn you!! You ain't s***!!!! &#@*%&@&%*#%$&&%@$&#@ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FAN: You seem to have an anger management problem. Maybe you should simmer down a bit.

HATER: A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-g-g-g-g-g-g-gh-h-h-h-h-h-h-h!!!!!!!!!

CC Titofan, I hear what your saying completely.

I have to echo DaxxKahns small beef with Tito.

I have one other problem with Tito but its not something I hold specifically against Tito only.

Tito was an unbelievable champ but had, if such a thing is possible, too much ambition. Despite his KO of Joppy, Tito didnt belong in the ring with true middleweights such as B Hop and tarnished his legacy slightly by going after that bigger prize. I have this problem with many fighters, but more so fans who demand fighters jump up weights to prove themselves. Weight limits are there for a reason, if your two or three above your natural weight your putting yourself in danger and at a serious disadvantage.

I guess the only reason I hold this against Tito is because he could of dominated at JM or even WW and we could be seeing Pretty Boy, JLC, Cotto and such challenging for the great ones title now. Imagine that!