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I liked the village people too .
who the fuck is that
....some gay ass UFC fighter Chuck Liddel or something
Intelligence at its best ::**Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I hate the whole trailer trash thing that MMA has surrounding it... sad bruce lee wannabes and white trash spoiling it the few decent athletes in it.
Will never have the class of boxing and that is why it will die out long before boxing does (just wait, if it hasn't plateau already it will soon... the trash 'I'M GONNA KICK YOUR ARSE BOY WWE' element of all the big fights will not extend into as many homes as boxing)
Don't get me wrong, there are a few good fighters and athletes in it, but as a combat sport (forget rules and techniques for a second) I have yet to see any one who's athletisicm or courage exceeds an active boxer of today. The culture surrounding it just won't bring those type of guys in
/rant
(* preemptive - own up to your clicks bitches *)
are you guys crazyyyyyyyy thats chuck liddell the ufc light heavyweight champ of the world no light heavy in ufc can beat him right now ^-^
Yeah, the best P4P fighter in the world might be pushing it a bit though...
For one he fights in one thing, MMA...
Two he has fought at one weight...
and
three... there is no three... one and two are enough :P
Will never have the class of boxing? Yes, between James Toney threatening to "send f@ggots back to Africa," Zab Judah starting a 15 man brawl in the middle of a fight, and Ricardo Mayorga happily behaving like a caged animal whenever someone sticks a mic in front of his face, I agree, it will be hard for the UFC to match the high standards of class set by boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Thats class, they are professional athletes that have the heart to step in the ring and use their many years in training in martial arts for a tenth of the money boxers make. Yeah they have no heart ::**Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Jesus, Ive been active one day and can already tell your an ass. ::**
That Russian guy Fedor Emeileko who fights for PRIDE would embarrass Liddel. Hes the p4p best fighter in human history, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeof74
I'm not going to SC you, but will call you on the ignorance(respectively) in MMA there are some tomato cans,but then again there are plenty in boxing, but since there are about 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 more variables then there are in boxing it is allot more competitive since it is a multi skill set it is a more intense chess match and allot more technique involved than boxing....Have you ever learned Brazilian Jujitsu, Sambo, Judo, Greco Roman wrestling??? I know you Train in Boxing Adam don't know if you compete yet...I personally train in MMA and am gonna be competing in about another 10 months or so...I speak from experience MMA is predominately technique oriented so yes a beer gutted tattooed guy an tap out a guy with a physique like Roy Jones, Thats the beauty of it in self defense we cant all be thoroughbreds you need to have superior technique so as to not have to out muscle someone....If you think MMA is gonna go away or has peaked you are turning a blind eye and are in denial it has only been expanding every year and since it has been toned down it has been sanctioned in more states and is available on cable...which has made the popularity soared you are talking about a sport that interest is comparable to boxing and it has only been around for about 12yrs I would say its progress is pretty damn goodQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
From what I understand, we have a really really good MMA board on this site somewhere. Where ever it is...I am sure that there are plenty of gents that would argue the case of whether or not he's the P4P The Best Fighter on the Planet...Bar None!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You mean this guy, that's getting pounded by rampage?
http://bjj.org/susumu/prideGP-200311...s/susumu03.jpg
I like Chuck and I think he is the best LHW in the world, but Fedor is the best P4P fighter in the world. Great stand up...awesome on the mat...and one of the toughest SOB's I've ever seen.
I wonder how he will do in the octagon or whatever is called , With the actual Tyson or hell Tyson in his prime?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeof74
Put him there With J Taylor,JC, J Toeny, Sam Peter IMHO he will be KO I thing Lacy would Finish him fast.
there isn't a boxer on the planet that would have anything other than a punchers chance in the octagon versus a top MMA fighter of same weight. MMA=multidimensional combat sport Boxing=one dimensional combat sport.
hmm it could be but what I have seen in those fights the ones tha know boxing doesn't use kicks or barely use them the only thing they have to know is the grapling or how you spell that? so to not get caught or to get loose if they get in trouble.
And all a wrestler has to know is how to box so that he doesn't get knocked out before he takes a boxer down.
I wouldn't go so far as to call chuck the best P4P fighter in the world. And as far as his chances against Tyson in his prime...is that in a boxing or MMA match? Either way, I'd PROBABLY give it to Tyson, because Chuck doesn't have a grappling/ground game, and isn't TOO big on kicks (outside the leg kick). I've always felt Chuck would CRUMBLE to a good boxer (just watch Couture/Liddell 1...you'll see what I mean).
As far as MMA goes, Fedor is the baddest mother in the game by far, but Wandy has to be the best P4P. He's fights as low as 185, yet still climbs into the open weight GP. He's fought Mark Hunt to a split decision, despite Hunt outweighing him by about 100lbs. He only has four losses...one by decision, one by split decision, one by TKO (Cut) and one by TKO (Ref stoppage leading to the greatest moment of Belfort's life).
I think since Chuck doesn't attempt to take his opponents down for GnP or submission people always say he has no ground game. The fact that he is one of the hardest fighters in the world to take down and almost impossible to keep down speaks volumes for his ground game. If Couture and Tito couldn't keep Chuck on the mat then you know the guy has mad skills on the mat. I think Babalu would disagree with you about not Chuck having good kicks. As far as these Tyson vs MMA fighter. The real point is no top MMA fighter would attempt to box with Mike. They would either take him down for GnP/Sub or use leg kicks/Knees/elbows to put him away. The guy doesn't have the heart for MMA. I personally would put Fedor higher than Silva simply b/c he hasn't lost since 2000(his only loss) and that was from cuts, and because I think he is a better fighter in all areas than Wandy.. Wandy has also lost 5 times.(Tito/Belfort/Mariano/Hunt/Arona)
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/f...?FighterID=209
But I got to Admit you got to be crazy to get in and fighting like that with barely gloves. Boxers with big gloves had kill others in the ring I can't imagine how is it to go in there like that. Can you imagine a boxer with those king of barely gloves.
Has anyone been killed on the UFC?
To start, I never said Chuck had BAD kicks, but that he doesn't utilize them outside of the odd leg kick here and there.
Also...Chuck has excellent take down defense and the brute strength to stand himself back up. That doesn't mean he has a good ground game. It means he can sprawl well and that he has strong legs (technique=good at ground game, brute strength=do what you can to get out of ground game)
That aside...
There have been I think 4 deaths in MMA, but ZERO deaths or SERIOUS injuries in a sanctioned match (plenty of breaks and tears, but nothing serious). There's actually a video of a guy being killed in an MMA match on youtube somewhere. Basically, the ref/doctors are a LOT quicker to call a fight in MMA than in boxing. It breaks my heart to watch boxing matches where one guy is getting pummeled constantly, and maybe even knocked down a few times, but he has too much heart to quit, but all he can do is stand there and get pummeled. You really don't see things like that very often in MMA. It happens, but usually, as soon as you go into "just don't get killed mode" (e.g. Fetal position on the ground, or just leaning against the fence with your hands over your face) they usually call an end to the fight for "failure to intellegently defend yourself."
Plus, as Dana White is so fond of pointing out EVERY time he has the chance, in boxing, you can get rocked, then take an 8 count, then get back in the fight, only to take even more severe damage to an already hurting brain. In MMA, once you get rocked bad enough to need an 8 count, you've already been hit once or twice more and the fight has been called, or you find yourself deep in a submission hold.
But basically, what it all boils down to is that MMA organizations KNOW how deadly dangerous the sport can be, and take EVERY precaution they can to protect the fighters and prevent something serious from happening.
Is Brock Lesner coming to the UFC still getting you all excited? :P
I call it how I see it... ::**
Dana White is full of it... standing 8 counts are rarely given out... and usually if you get rocked bad enough to get one your opponent has finished you off with a lethal combination. (not some slaps or 'strikes' or a bit of wrasslin :P)
I have always and will always maintain that if the best athletes from boxing trained in MMA techniques they would dominate it.
A prime Roy Jones might get taken to the ground or what ever by some one with a beer belly... maybe... and that would be assuming that he wouldn't learn a single MMA style or defence.
Like I said I have no problem with the techniques of MMA, I am sure they are effective, if scrappy to watch... its not a boxing V MMA debate for me... it's a boxers vs MMAers debate and I just don't see quiet the same level of talent in MMA...
of course you don't...You don't like it so your biased against it you dont watch the technique involved in your so called "Wrasslin" statement(In which I find extremely offensive and a slap in the face to me that I work so hard in my training and grappling to have an armchair non enthusiast demean my sport) just cause you cant appreciate the intricacies of technique and counters involved.....Do you have any concept of gravity and leverage??Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Same level of talent??????? Please brother!!!! how can a more balanced and complete fighter not have the same talent as a 1 dimensional fighter????? Here it is I have trained in both and will break it down in simple terms...Boxing would be like driving a Ferrari on the autobahn in terms of what you have to be cognizant of when you are fighting...MMA would be like trying to fly a fighter jet in a gymnasium there are 100's of takedowns numerous strikes...numerous takedown defenses....then if you are on the ground there are about 1000techniques to gain superior position,1000 ways to try to counter someone or defend them from getting that position...Then there are about 2000 submissions...and so on...Your awareness level is ridiculous your margin for error is razor thin...
Training a boxer in MMA and he would dominate....Highly doubt that one too thats another slap in the face....If I told you that I know you been training in boxing for 10 years but if you show me a jab, cross, hook combonation..I will dominate you ::** Just like you don't tell a guy thats been training in Brazilian Jujitsu, Sambo, Shooto, Filipino Dumog for 10 years that if you show them a guard a mount and a few choke holds and armbars that you will dominate them........
OH and your smart azz Brock lesnar statement let me tell you a little about BROCK LESNER in 2 years attending The University of Minnesota he compiled a record of 50-2 and 106-5 overall in college and was a 2 time college All american and NCAA heavyweight champion...I would say he is a Top notch Greco Roman wrestler..Last time I checked that was considerd a MARTIAL ART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So God Bless him if he wants to compete...I guess you will tell me next that if you Show Wlad Klitchko a few Wrestling move he will dominate Lesner- ::**
A couple points form me:
Adam, the level of punching/striking is far greater in boxing, but you need at least one more dimension to have any chance in mma. Granted, boxing, IMO, is the best foundation to have for any combat sport. As an aspiring fighter, I'd start there, then get into judo and/or bjj while evolving my stand up to muay thai legs and elbows.
Also, in his prime (I don't care what anyone says) there has never been a harder, more deadly puncher than Tyson. Liddel would have no choice other than try to take him down, otherwise Mike would DESTROY him. And I mean DESTROY. Chuck hits hard, yes, but he's NOWHERE NEAR as hard or proficient as Mike once was.
Do your homework on Fedor and come back to me :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
There's so much irony in Adam's post it's sickening. He's comparing boxing (which I love) and which is full of illiterates who come from the ghettos (sorry, but it's true), to mma (which I also love) which has countless guys with university educations. CroCop is a frikking politician, for cripe sakes. Show me one boxer, Just ONE, with the education and intelligence to be anything other than a mimimum wage contruction worker when his career is over.
adam, sorry mate, you're way out of your element here.
:coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
I would have to agree Von I wish people wouldn't type cast MMA as "white trash" why would you say that??? Cause they have Tattoos??? I have Tattoos on my left shoulder right pectoral from my elbow up to the collar of my neck.. I am a Sales and Finance manager and live in upper middle class My point being is I am far from "Whitetrash"!!!!!
Like I said before there are tomato cans in MMA but there are just as many if not more in Boxing...They all cant be Mayweathers and Roy Jones...Same as in MMA I just think if you dont like MMA fine its your opinion, which I certainly respect but to trash it and give an inaccurate and biased assessment when you dont have a shred of knowledge about...Case in point if you think its trash and untalented go ahead and google MMA schools in your area walk into one and Proclaim that its Untalented....Then be ready to deal with the consequences...Guaranteed its will be a painfu;l experience...I know there are guys from differents styles Boxing,Tae Kwo Do, Karate,Tang su do that come down to our schoolalmost weekly that think they are hot shite then they get humbled real quick!!!!!!!!!!
An MMA fighter is a Hybrid fighter that is profecient in all ranges of combat...I just dont get all the hate :-\
There are plenty of intelligent boxers of course... Delahoya, B-hop (promoters)Calvin Brock the Klit brothers etc I just get mad at the whole typecasting of MMA fans and people who train and compete
Actually I believe Rocky Juarez has a degree from some university, could be thinking of someone else thoQuote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
Klitschko.
I agree I find the hate for MMA on this site absolutely amazing. I understand how some people just don't enjoy it but the continous statements that MMA fighters aren't top level atheletes and that the sport has not science or technique is just absurd. I think alot of people simply aren't aware that the UFC is just one part of the sport that is MMA and not the whole. Plus I think the white trash opinion stems from UFC's early days when many of the contestants were more like the local karate tough man variety versus the multifaceted world class atheletes we get today. I love both sports, I think MMA is growing rapidly and I think the proliferation of belts/Alphabets orgs/shoddy promoters is pulling boxing into one of its darkest times. All that being said they aren't anywhere close to on par with one another. I guess the growth of a sport that many on this site deem the same as professional wrestling or a fringe sport at best causes a knee jerk reaction to belittle it regardless of their own ignorance about it.
I guess we simply disagree. I think of ground game as a mix of submissions and wrestling. I agree that chuck isn't going to submit anyone especially from his guard. But in the submission grappling tourneys I compete in you score points for effective takedowns, reversals and improving you position(ie..regaining guard after being mounted) Considering he consistantly improves his position when on the ground(Mounted to guard to standing) I'd think the guy's wrestling is pretty awesome. Submission is another story. I've never even see him attempt a sub. That being said his sub defense is very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy D
Maybe I haven't noticed it, but he very rarely gets mounted. And if he is mounted, he doesn't regain guard...he gives his back then stands up.
Also...in all the JJ tourneys I've seen, I've never seen a point given for regaining guard or standing up unless it's via sweep. Chuck just stands...no sweeps involved. If you don't sweep using your leg somehow, I've never seen a point given. Maybe the rules where I watch are just different.
But like I said...I count sprawl as part of your standup game, not your ground game (its a standup defensive technique vs a takedown, which to me is a stand up technique that transitions to the ground game). So I guess our opinions are based on different definitions.
But as for the whole MMA vs Boxer thing, I've always felt that if you could put a Klit or prime Tyson into the ring with a good takedown D and some submission defense, they would dominate. Thats basically what Chuck is, only from a different striking background (Kempo Karate...but I consider Boxing to be the BEST stand up game in the world...even better than Muay Thai).
Might just be me, but I always felt boxing was one of the harder skills to master, while a basic knowledge in any of the other arts (esp. BJJ, but including wrestling and Muay Thai or Kickboxing) will get you by enough to win.
THIS IS POUND FOR POUND THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD!!!!
Finally someone agrees with me. They are the best pure strikers in the world, bar none, and IMO the best foundation to have for combat sports. cc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy D
Lidell is nowhere near one of the p4p best in the world. U got Emelianenko and the likes of Mirko Cropcop way ahead of lidell.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1996/vvvxh3.gif
Is that barnett getting tagged in the final? I bet he shit himself from that punch.
Aye tht was in finals. Crocop is prob the best striker in MMA, especially with his performance at the finals and his kickboxing background.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Those are three of my favorite boxers on the planet! YOU Shut your filthy mouth! Mayorga rocks! Toney rocks! And Judah will be back kicking ass again very soon!Quote:
Originally Posted by smashcrusher