here ya go
http://boxingtalk.com/pag/article9597.html
j.t. all the way
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here ya go
http://boxingtalk.com/pag/article9597.html
j.t. all the way
;)
cc for being quick on the drawQuote:
Originally Posted by Hairdoo
Although I think that Jermain does better in rematches...all one of them...I still gotta go with Winky for my pick...I never bet against a favorite...then again...both of them being on my favorites list...I'll have to restate & say that I never bet against my top 5'ers. ;D
Hats off to Taylor he cant be accused of ducking fighters.
People complain and don't like him for the simple reason he has gotten bad decisions to go his way... IMO thats not his fault, and there is nobody better for boxing right now than him... except a unified heavyweight american(Note that Lennox Lewis is my favourite HW all time, but an american would really revive the sport).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
i agree that we need an american hw, but were coming up short on talent
peter isnt it (although i do think he beats a couple hw champs)
toney COULD have been it, but didnt pan out
CC lets hope its official. how many times have we seen something on boxing rec only to find out it never happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
That's one PPV I am definitely buying. Wright UD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P
i never go with boxrec, this is from boxingtalk.com and theyre usually pretty good
from what i understand, taylors camp made an offer to wright for december.
then wright rejects the offer saying that he would only fight for a 50/50 split on the purse.
then the next day, team wright turns around and accepts the offer
now its all up to team taylor to make good on the offer that was put in front of winky.
cc back
oh my bad frozensolid! it was boxingtalk huh? yo u gonna be in town for Grand Finale? u gonna help me wing them fine asss pinays? also at Body English? hollaaaaaaaaaaar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P
i just might have to take a night away from the girl and the kid to come kick it at hooters casino ;)
(i could just be wingman for a night or something)
im gonna try to make it to the fight, but now im saving money for 2 big fights at mandalay bay (mayweather/baldomir, wright/taylor)
so i guess i got a little bit of a dilemma on my hands
Toney WAS it but the way boxing goes they think the power puncher is a better watch then the master boxer. They'd rather keep your eyes glued to the screen "just in case" Peter bails himself out with power rather then watch Toney outbox someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
i think jermain taylor will win this fight but you never know
It depends.
Was what Wright did last time the best he could do or could he improve, was what Taylor did last time the best he could do or could he improve. Who's rematch is this? Jermain Taylor's or Winky Wright's? These are the questions that will be answered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
imo....................
wright is one of the best fighters out there (top 3) without a doubt
BUT................
how much of a difference can emmanuel steward make with jermain?
so far, it seems to me that jermain has been getting by on pure talent and being freakishly athletic
the first match with winky, i think he only worked with emmanuel (one of the best trainers in the sport) for 6 weeks or something and fought one of the best fighters of this era to a draw.
now emmanuel has had all this time to iron out the many wrinkles in jermain's amatureish style.
what if jermain comes out and actually boxes like steward has done with many fighters in the past?
bottom line, imo
i dont see winky getting any better than he already is at this stage in his career
but jermains just going to keep getting better
jermain by clear cut, unanimous decision ;)
I don't think Jermain Taylor's style is cut out for a trainer like Manny Stewart, not because he can't but he doesn't seem to have the temperment.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
I'm still a bit shocked that Taylor bumped Pat Burns for Manny.
Burns has been with Taylor since he turned pro right after the 2000 Olympics. Ozell Nelson, Taylor's adopted pap & amateur coach, decided for the switch & Taylor dropped Burns like a hot tater. Where's the love & the loyalty?
I mean...Burns was all up in Taylor's pooper. Talking like he loved the kid for life.
Kinda sad, IWO...but when you're that young & easily influenced...I suppose your train of thought can be driven by any ole' conductor...Nelson being the daddy of sorts pretty much has the upper hand.
I'm interested to see how this effects Taylor in the long haul...because honestly...I think Manny's a bit overratted.
I am not a fan of Manny Steward's jab and grab B.S he teaches the tall Heavyweight, because it goes against the rules of boxing which clearly states its a foul to use holding as a strategy or a tactic. and boring as all fuk to watch from a fan stand point.
However Manny does extremely well with Middleweights and is able to see and correct a lot of things other trainers would miss. He is very knowledgeable. and the Kronk gym has a lot of benefits. from good sparring partners, to an overall brotherhood atmosphere of sorts. Its good a stable. Taylor is in great hands IMO.
It looked like Taylor didnt know what to do in some instances that he gave in to the "I'll let Wright hit me then I'll hit him back" mentality..even in the last round he was just going straight at Wright one dimensionally looking for a combo to hit him with, not once did he decide to use his jab to keep Wright at that distance and make him come to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Not to sound smug...but quite some time ago I stated that if you took Taylor's jab away from him...he was fwocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Wright definently nuetralized his jab...but he did so with his own jab. Taylor even commented on the fact that Wright's jab was just too quick & too frequent. Honestly, I thought that the way to get to Taylor was to guard up & some in & take it to him on the inside...but Wright's jab seemed to be the way to go.
Curious to see if he can do the same thing again.
Either way...I think that Manny's gonna keep on confusin Taylor.
I just think its because his jab couldn't stop the forward progress of Winky no matter how hard Lampley tried to make us believe it ::**Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
It was sickening to watch Wright dodge Taylor's punches and Lampley saying that Taylor had hurt Wright badly ::**
I thought Taylor won the first fight by 2 rounds. can't remember the specifics of the fight though, other then it was a good competitive match. part 2 should be the same out come only I think Taylor will win even more impressively this time via late round KO , but either way should be a thrill ! Both fighters are terrific
Not to get at you LG, but I really don't understand this thinking. I mean, you think he won the fight, fine. But KO? In the first fight Wright didn't even look hurt. Not but a handful of punches landed completely flush and Wright took them in stride. I really didn't see anything in the first fight that would leed to a Taylor KO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
He didn't win impressively last time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Wright's got a lot sturdier chin than people give him credit for. One of the most under rated jaws out there.
54 fights with 50 wins & no losses.
He's been snapped too. Julio Cesar Vasquez, Shane Mosley, Fernando Vargas, Tito Trinidad, Jermain Taylor, & Bronco McKart are all crackers (not in a "whitey" way) that landed flush. That says a lot more than most people are hearing.
Taylor's a strong puncher...but IWO...he's not fought up to his opponents level when he's pressed. He really seems to go "deer in headlights" when his power & his jab bails on him.
Watch the first Hopkins fight & the Wright match again. Round 10 against Hopkins & round 7 against Wright he obviously falls apart. Wright is a considerable notch smaller than Taylor & Wright was able to bully him onto the ropes for the better part of each round.
I like Taylor...I really do...I know that it's hard to believe...but I truly think that he's been rushed into his position & it shows against the top dawgies.
:coolclick: Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
What kills me is that if you watch the fight from back to front...every shot that Taylor lands on the guard...Lampley is "squeelin like a pig in the woods" on every shot that Wright blocks.
Ree-gotdam-dick-you-loss!
Well...it's a tuff call. He did catch Wright several times...& it looked like Wright was stunned...but I'm with you...I just don't see a KO materializing. Again...Wright takes the bulk of Taylor's power on his fore arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
What you say is true , but in all fairness , JT is fighting the best guys out there, and when you fight the best guys, they are going to give you fewer opportunities , and they are going to expose more of your weaknesses. JT wants to keep his foot on the gas and beat the best, that says a lot about a champion. and he seems to be getting better and better each time out. I am impressed with JT beating Hopkins twice especially after watching the beat down Bernard gave Tarver.. Taylor's star got some sparkle to it.
Not doubting that but it would be an astronomical leap to KO Taylor. Agreed he has been getting better every fight, and I think he is the future of the middleweights but he is at a time where competition is tough, as in top P4P tough, but he has persevered through that with 3 close fights. Granted I personally beleive he is only 1-2 in those fights, but he is 28 and hasn't hit his prime imo. BUT I think Winky makes the proper adjustments next fight and wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Wright got flatfooted last fight when he felt he was in control and that allowed Taylor to push the fight to the middle of the ring. I think next time around, Wright will have enough of a bad taste in his mouth to keep the pressure on JT at all times.
Wright UD.
No worries, I love a good debate, its a just feeling I got, Taylor learned something in that first fight, and has the team to dissect it, and change the approach the second go. When you win the first fight in a series, the second fight in that series is much easier , unless your opponents was sick or something the first time around, all things being equal in regards to fighters health , the second fights is going to be easier for the original winner to repeat and usually the outcome is more impressive. . not always true, but about 75% of the time . Wright is tremendous fighter by the way, but he getting up there in age now , and just a tad bit slower can be all it takes at this levelQuote:
Originally Posted by amat
CC by the way, i really enjoy chatting with you guys ! ;)
I just don't think that he's improved on his faults.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Again, I just think that he loses his composure when his power fails him.
Again...I just don't think that he's getting that much better...atleast not against the top men that can take his power & negate his jab.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I agree that he hasn't hit his prime yet...hence the fact that I believe he is being pushed to fast against the top me...but then again...I have to disagree with the fact that Taylor is at a time where competition is all that rough...because let's face it...outside of Wright...there's no major threats to Taylor.
The other names that really stand out at 160 are Miranda, Sturm, & Abraham. I think that Miranda is too one dimensional for Taylor...he's got spots of power...but he's raw. Sturm...they fought twice & are 1-1 but after getting sparked by Casti...who knows. I think that Abraham will have issues with Taylor's reach & jab...& first things first...he's gotta get past Miranda.
Other than that...there's just Castijello, Pavlik, Soliman, Mora, & the rest will most likely be cannon fodder...but they are names to beef up his record. Taylor needs to stay at 160lbs & make a name for himself, instead of moving to 168 or 175.
Back to Winkus Maximus...I'll be surprised if Taylor legitamately wins against Wright. I'm saying that Wright puts up the fight of his life & HBO hands the decision to Taylor...which is exactly what I think happened in the first Hopkins fight & the draw with Wright.
A star is a star & HBO knows the marketing potential of Taylor.
Agreed...again.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Wright get's robbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
**Also...not trying to be disagreeable on all fronts...just discussing the in'z & out'z. :-X
Wacko, while I agree with most of your points about Taylor I think you do underestimate him a bit. I agree that Taylor seems to be a be hesitant and get confused in the ring under manny, but he's always be fighting very confusing fighters. I dont know if this is cause of manny or a matter of taylors confidence. However, I think Taylors confidence is starting to get on steady ground (really think bhop did some damage to it)
I also agree that he was rushed and ideally wouldnt have been champ for another year or two, but I really get the feeling that he's starting to come into his own. I cannot picture him losing to Wright in this fight (though I can picture people saying Wright got robbed, lets hope this is not the case!)
I think Jermain is going to win this fight by a few rounds though and it will be clear who the champ of the middleweight division is. I think Taylor is a guy who has all the pedigree, but he does lack that...the only thing I can describe it is "confidence" Though I thought he looked more sure of himself against Wright then he did in either bhop fight and I do see improvement everyfight.
I really think he's going to blossom fully in his next few fights and he's going to show big sign sof improvment in the rematch with winky.
Agreed. :coolclick: right back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Feel the love. ;D
:)
Wacko, u don't need me to say this, cause so many millions do, heh, but "you crazy!" :coolclick:
Truth be told...Wacko is a huge supporter of Taylor...but he just got tossed in with my two most favorite fighters of all time...& I just don't dig on picking against either Hopkins or Wright. I picked against Hopkins once...& he shocked me...I won't let it happen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
It can't be Manny...because they've only had one go around...but I see what you are getting at.
The thing is...it's easy to see that it is his confidence. Notice his nervous tick once he starts breaking up. He thumbs his forehead about 5 or 6 times in a row...almost looks like he's trying to drum up some new type of guard. ;D
Agreed...I hope that it's a clear cut decision...not some bullshit gift or anything of the sort. I'm not saying that he's been getting gifts...but he's been getting gifts lately. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
Now see...I disagree...I think that he looked more confident against Hopkins in the second go around & I just really REALLY didn't expect Wright to push him around the ring & press him on the ropes like he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
It was either the 9th or 10th round that Wright put Taylor in the corner & started throwing repeatedly & Taylor honestly looked like he was about to break out in tears. I was shocked.
I think that he will too...get better in his next fights...but I would really rather Wright win...even though Taylor is the future of the division...there is no shame in losing to Wright. I mean, he already won two matches against Hopkins...Wright deserves his fair shake & if he does enough to win the fight...he deserves to win the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
Taylor has a long career ahead of him. He'll be fine.
:coolclick:
Good stuff people...good stuff.
I don't know if I beleive he loses confidence when his power fails. I didn't think so in the Wright fight. The thing is, it was a young fighter in there with a very crafty veteran and the older fighter was able to be the ring general (the big reason I think he won the fight), but Taylor stayed hungry throughout the entire fight, just didn't have the tools to do it. But he's fighting with the best and you can't do anything but learn.
As for top opposition, his first title challenge was against a top P4P guy in Nard, and then his second defense was against a top P4P guy in Wright. He's about to face a top 3 P4P guy for the second time in Winky. That's 4 in a row. Not Pac, Floyd, De La Hoya, Mosley or anyone can say that.
And CC LG and Wacksta. Always happy to debate on the most civil boxing board on the net.
Yes he did stay hungry & yes he did go toe to toe with a savy vet...but if Wright had more pop...I personally believe that Taylor woulda been down & out. I honestly have some questions about Taylor's chin & ability to take a punch. Again...I urge ya's to review the first Hopkins fight & the Wright fight...Hopkins almost had Taylor out/stunned/reeling/whatever in the 9th or 10th. Wright hurt him too...Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I agree that Taylor get's props for who he has faced...but only on the last 4 or 5 men. Prior to Joppy, Wright, Hopkins, Edouard...he was fighting a majority of lighties on the move up.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I hate to sound like I don't dig on Taylor...I was impressed with him in the Olympics & I was bumping him up like a mo-fo when I first saw him on ESPN2 as a pro...but you have to take the good with the bad & it's always good to discuss it, IWO.
Taylor's got vast potential...that's already been established...also it's obvious that he can compete with the elite...but to what extent? I also think that switching trainers is going to be a mistake in the long haul...Manny's got too many irons in the fire, IWO.
Agreed. B-E-A-Utiful aint it?Quote:
Originally Posted by amat