Marciano - Walcott 2 ... was it a fixed fight?

OK thanks to Big H's great work with the calendar ((yes we have a calendar ::** )) ive been setting the sky plus to record alot of the boxing and just finished watching espn classics behind the fights and one of the fights on was Marciano Walcott 2... cant say i have ever read anywhere about this fight being fixed but for me Wallcot never even tried to throw anykind of shot like the one that floors Marciano in there first fight.. and again when Maciano knocked Walcott down he was just waiting for the ref to count him out before he got up ???

ever a fixed fight if i ever seen one.

never rated Marciano ;D

Well IMO Marciano and Walcott are both legends and this is disrespectful to them. However i have recorded Marciano's behind the fight and will watch it to see if i understand what your saying.

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Originally Posted by Saddo

OK thanks to Big H's great work with the calendar ((yes we have a calendar ::** ))

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;D

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Well IMO Marciano and Walcott are both legends and this is disrespectful to them. However i have recorded Marciano's behind the fight and will watch it to see if i understand what your saying.

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just look at first round of the first fight and the first round of the second fight you'll see what i mean... also how quick Walcot got up when the ref reached 10 ;)

all fighters know you stay down till nine and get up slowly when the ref says 10 to be counted out if you want him to stop it ;)

to be honest i think louis vs max was fixed aswell max was holding onto ropes doing nothing it prolly wasnt fixed but i just think there was something strange about it

there was alot of properganda with that fight soo who knows mate... cant remember it that well as it was some time since i seen it... but i do remember thinking it was like watching 2 different fighters :-\

yea alot of fixing back in them days mate so i dont know what to think

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

yea alot of fixing back in them days mate so i dont know what to think

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I do....this thread is shit, that's what I think

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

yea alot of fixing back in them days mate so i dont know what to think

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I do....this thread is S***, that's what I think

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dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

Walcott was 39 and had taken TONS of punishment in the first fight. He was slowed down a lot from that first fight and I think he was looking to get out of it. ALTHOUGH, the fight was in Chicago and that was the scene of a lot of fixed fights so you could never know for sure but I really just think that it was Walcott who was nothing more then a shell of his former self. But it was in Chicago...

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Originally Posted by Saddo

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

yea alot of fixing back in them days mate so i dont know what to think

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I do....this thread is S***, that's what I think

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dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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No it wouldn't

If the truth be known, there was a lot of it going on at the time

for sure scrap we have a bright young star who i wont name for libelus reasons but imo his last amature fight reeked of fixing.

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Originally Posted by amat

Walcott was 39 and had taken TONS of punishment in the first fight. He was slowed down a lot from that first fight and I think he was looking to get out of it. ALTHOUGH, the fight was in Chicago and that was the scene of a lot of fixed fights so you could never know for sure but I really just think that it was Walcott who was nothing more then a shell of his former self. But it was in Chicago...

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i felt the same way about Ali Liston 2 not fixed just Liston wanted out ;)

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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Originally Posted by Saddo

i felt the same way about Ali Liston 2 not fixed just Liston wanted out ;)

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Agreed and that's different than "fixed"

Like Tyson-Spinks...not fixed the other guy just didn't want to fight

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

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carry on and you will... last warning :)

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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Definitely got to agree with you there. Dives don't get any more clearer than that. And to Allan Vester of all people. One of the many the many reasons I dislike this Augustus clown. Cc.

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Originally Posted by Saddo

carry on and you will... last warning :)

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Am I not allowed to disagree? Sorry if it came across a little heavy handed...I just think SOME hard facts are needed when you bring up something like this, that's all.

I'm not being totally outrageous here, I'm just voicing my opinion, sorry...guess I'll see everyone in a couple days or whenever this is all over again

of course your allowed to dissagree....

my facts are he didnt look like he was trying and he waited for the ref to get to 10 and got up without a problem.

so please tell me why you think i am wrong about this fight?

Note: this thread is S*** and wanker smilies dont count :)

And Saddo I actually ended up agreeing with you, but I suppose that and my 12000+ posts doesn't give me the benefit of the doubt

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

i felt the same way about Ali Liston 2 not fixed just Liston wanted out ;)

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Agreed and that's different than "fixed"

Like Tyson-Spinks...not fixed the other guy just didn't want to fight

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of course they do thats why your still here ;)

so why do you think im wrong?

A fix would imply that there was a reason he refused to try other than the fact he was scared or too old or both

A fix tells me that Walcott would PROFIT somehow by not trying, ie get more money or something....that's all.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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Originally Posted by Lyle

A fix would imply that there was a reason he refused to try other than the fact he was scared or too old or both

A fix tells me that Walcott would PROFIT somehow by not trying, ie get more money or something....that's all.

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yeah thats it..... i dont think Walcott quit because he knew he couldnt win... he just didnt seem to be trying.

and in the first fight he knocked Marciano on the deck in the first round and was winning on all the scorcards before he got knocked out by the suzie Q shot....

so for me he didnt really have a reason to throw the fight because of fear.

Liston did because i belive he knew his shoulder was ok in the first fight and that was an excuse... he wanted out of the second one the same way Tyson did in the second holyfield fight.. just used a differnt method.

they both knew they were gonna get a beating.... this was not the case for Walcott.. so IMO it wasnt the same.

If he did quit and it looked like it to me..... it was for a whole different reason

IE: was told he had to ;)

hope that makes sense :-\

Maybe that Suzie Q shot knocked all the fight out of Walcott. Knocked out all he had left and he was just an empty tank after that cause he was never gonna be Jersey Joe Walcott again after that shot.

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Originally Posted by Starr

Maybe that Suzie Q shot knocked all the fight out of Walcott. Knocked out all he had left and he was just an empty tank after that cause he was never gonna be Jersey Joe Walcott again after that shot.

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could be as he never fought again after that fight.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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Oh please Starr, it was the last seconds of the fight. It was a dive. I'm a fan of the guy two, but there is a HUGE difference between that and No Mas. Duran was simply frustrated and let frustration get the better of him, Augustus laid down. Your right, he didn't make a career out of it but he laid down. Whether any strings were pulled or not he dived.

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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Oh please Starr, it was the last seconds of the fight. It was a dive. I'm a fan of the guy two, but there is a HUGE difference between that and No Mas. Duran was simply frustrated and let frustration get the better of him, Augustus laid down. Your right, he didn't make a career out of it but he laid down. Whether any strings were pulled or not he dived.

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I don't know whether I agree or not... I mean I agree it was a dive but I don't see the difference between it and the No mas.... You make it sound as though Duran was less at fault because he quit, but that's all Augustus did, I just don't see the big difference.. Quitting is quitting, whether a fighter lies down or just walks away it doesn't exactly matter, if anything Augustus was more justified in doing so because like you say it was the closing seconds of the fight... Duran still had most rounds left, he hadn't already lost as was the case with Augustus...

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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Oh please Starr, it was the last seconds of the fight. It was a dive. I'm a fan of the guy two, but there is a HUGE difference between that and No Mas. Duran was simply frustrated and let frustration get the better of him, Augustus laid down. Your right, he didn't make a career out of it but he laid down. Whether any strings were pulled or not he dived.

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I don't know whether I agree or not... I mean I agree it was a dive but I don't see the difference between it and the No mas.... You make it sound as though Duran was less at fault because he quit, but that's all Augustus did, I just don't see the big difference.. Quitting is quitting, whether a fighter lies down or just walks away it doesn't exactly matter, if anything Augustus was more justified in doing so because like you say it was the closing seconds of the fight... Duran still had most rounds left, he hadn't already lost as was the case with Augustus...

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In terms of them both quitting, there isn't much difference. But in terms of Duran taking a dive? No, he quit on his feet and waved the fight off. Quit? Yes. Dive? No. Augustus took a dive. Duran just quit.

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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If was not the best thing to do, but Duran made it known to everybody he was quitting. He pretty much told everybody he's a quitter and that he wasn't going to fight no more. Augustus goes down from a punch that was down right laughable. He than stays on the mat for the 10 count. When it was obvious to everybody that he wasn't hurt. This from the same guy who's never caught a break and who according to him, has been robbed on almost 75% of his losses. What the hell is that?

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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If was not the best thing to do, but Duran made it known to everybody he was quitting. He pretty much told everybody he's a quitter and that he wasn't going to fight no more. Augustus goes down from a punch that was down right laughable. He than stays on the mat for the 10 count. When it was obvious to everybody that he wasn't hurt. This from the same guy who's never caught a break and who according to him, has been robbed on almost 75% of his losses. What the hell is that?

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CC.

Violent Demise with more coolclicks then sadclicks? :o

I think in the time up to the late 50s when the mob ran things it wasnt to coasha. Now Ive never heard or suspected a fix, except the one you mentioned Saddo. Theres lots of robberys but not fixes. But then I am one dumb cunt.

I agree. Robberies and fixes are two different things. Still, I'm sure there have been some fights that were fixes, possibly ones no one will ever suspect.

i think walcott coulda got up but thought....whats the use? so he stayed down

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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If was not the best thing to do, but Duran made it known to everybody he was quitting. He pretty much told everybody he's a quitter and that he wasn't going to fight no more. Augustus goes down from a punch that was down right laughable. He than stays on the mat for the 10 count. When it was obvious to everybody that he wasn't hurt. This from the same guy who's never caught a break and who according to him, has been robbed on almost 75% of his losses. What the hell is that?

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CC.

Violent Demise with more coolclicks then sadclicks? :o

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It's called realization. At first Violent Demise was disliked and sc'ed many times cuz it bother the other members and the mods that there boxing knowledge, while on a "Superior" level was still no where near Violent Demise's "God like" level. Little by little as times goes by it started to get accepted as something that just is. While I'm pretty sure still disliked, Violent Demise boxing knowledge is damn near gospel. It is clearly without equal. It should treasured and praised. :thumb:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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If was not the best thing to do, but Duran made it known to everybody he was quitting. He pretty much told everybody he's a quitter and that he wasn't going to fight no more. Augustus goes down from a punch that was down right laughable. He than stays on the mat for the 10 count. When it was obvious to everybody that he wasn't hurt. This from the same guy who's never caught a break and who according to him, has been robbed on almost 75% of his losses. What the hell is that?

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CC.

Violent Demise with more coolclicks then sadclicks? :o

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It's called realization. At first Violent Demise was disliked and sc'ed many times cuz it bother the other members and the mods that there boxing knowledge, while on a "Superior" level was still no where near Violent Demise's "God like" level. Little by little as times goes by it started to get accepted as something that just is. While I'm pretty sure still disliked, Violent Demise boxing knowledge is damn near gospel. It is clearly without equal. It should treasured and praised. :thumb:

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Or he just sadclicked everything in sight, didn't go away and the coolclicks are an attempt to drive him away?

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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If was not the best thing to do, but Duran made it known to everybody he was quitting. He pretty much told everybody he's a quitter and that he wasn't going to fight no more. Augustus goes down from a punch that was down right laughable. He than stays on the mat for the 10 count. When it was obvious to everybody that he wasn't hurt. This from the same guy who's never caught a break and who according to him, has been robbed on almost 75% of his losses. What the hell is that?

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CC.

Violent Demise with more coolclicks then sadclicks? :o

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It's called realization. At first Violent Demise was disliked and sc'ed many times cuz it bother the other members and the mods that there boxing knowledge, while on a "Superior" level was still no where near Violent Demise's "God like" level. Little by little as times goes by it started to get accepted as something that just is. While I'm pretty sure still disliked, Violent Demise boxing knowledge is damn near gospel. It is clearly without equal. It should treasured and praised. :thumb:

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Or he just sadclicked everything in sight, didn't go away and the coolclicks are an attempt to drive him away?

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Nah, nah. They tried that cc thing with you and your ass is still here.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Saddo

dont start acting like a fool lyle as it would be a shame to ban you again :)

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Yeah I wouldn't want to have to miss out on such great info again :beat:

If you're going to talk about a "fixed fight" talk about everyone's favorite EMANUEL AUGUSTUS...THAT my friend is a dive.

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And he didn't make his career out of it. And it wasn't a dive, it was his way out of the fight he was going to lose, if you call that a dive then you best call Durans 'no mas' a dive. It was just an example of getting out of a fight you were losing ;)

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If was not the best thing to do, but Duran made it known to everybody he was quitting. He pretty much told everybody he's a quitter and that he wasn't going to fight no more. Augustus goes down from a punch that was down right laughable. He than stays on the mat for the 10 count. When it was obvious to everybody that he wasn't hurt. This from the same guy who's never caught a break and who according to him, has been robbed on almost 75% of his losses. What the hell is that?

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CC.

Violent Demise with more coolclicks then sadclicks? :o

---

It's called realization. At first Violent Demise was disliked and sc'ed many times cuz it bother the other members and the mods that there boxing knowledge, while on a "Superior" level was still no where near Violent Demise's "God like" level. Little by little as times goes by it started to get accepted as something that just is. While I'm pretty sure still disliked, Violent Demise boxing knowledge is damn near gospel. It is clearly without equal. It should treasured and praised. :thumb:

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Or he just sadclicked everything in sight, didn't go away and the coolclicks are an attempt to drive him away?

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Nah, nah. They tried that cc thing with you and your ass is still here.

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Haha. You know, they really did but ever since you came it seems that everyone has gotten sad clicky with me? I'm seeming to get about one a day. Wierd coincidence ;D

In 1961 during the Kefauver hearings in which the mobster Frankie Carbo was being indicted for curroption of the fight game on a massive scale one Truman Gibson, formerly president of the IBC swore under oath that Carbo negotiated a deal with Felix Bocchichio, Walcott's manager, that on top of the $250,000 contract they had cemented, he (Bocchichio) should sell his share of the rights to the 3-D movie that was to be made of the bout to Marciano's manager Al Weill.
Weill, thinking he was being shrewd, snapped up the offer, after all this was the first time a 3-D movie had been made, the boxing public, Weill reasoned, would clamour to see the film.
However...
Carbo and Bocchichio had hatched a plan that would make them some good money off Weill whom neither was very fond. Bocchichio, it is alleged by Gibson, told Walcott to take a dive in the first round, thereby robbing Weill of a long movie to pull in the fans.
History shows Walcott going down, looking resigned at defeat, then kicking up a stink as Bocchichio decides to ham it up to the referee, even Marciano seems bemused by the swift conclusion.
The film, as suspected, flopped, and Weill lost a lot of money, so did Marciano.
In total the champion recieved just over $300,000 before taxes, managers cut, etc, etc...
Whilst the challenger cleared some $500,000, unprecedented for a challenger to get more than the champion. It seems though that Walcott saw very little of that money, for within a few years of this, his last bout, he was working nights for the Camden, New Jersey, Police.
When these allegations were made in 1961, Walcott protested his innocence in the whole affair, however he was prone to certain corruption as proven later in his life when he was found guilty of taking bribes whilst on the New Jersey boxing board of control.

I doubt Walcott did give up he was an old fighter and rematches often have the same result but quicker.