Theoretical Toney fights.
First presume Toney was middleweight again, and fought Hagler... how do you think it would have gone? I think that no way could Hagler hurt Toney, and Toney would win slighly on points.
Second he gets up to cruiserweight through the same regiment as HOpkins and Roy Jones did their weight gain and fought Dwight Muhammed Quawi who fought Evander the first time I seriously don't know who would win.. IMO Toney would be alot harder to hit than Evander, but he could get punished to the body which is the only place he somewhat vulnerable, and he wouldn't phase Quawi for a second.
Last he gets up to heavyweight maybe comes in at 200 or 210 at 29 and fights Frazier who just lost his second fight to Ali... I think this would be a fight of the ages with alot of punches, and like the Quawi fight I have no idea who would win.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
I've always thought that Toney had the style to beat Hagler, the way he counters off the ropes, the toughness, the infighting skills. But the thing is this those skills that he had, the shoulder roll, pull counter right hand, were not fully developed when he was at 160. He was still young, didn't have a whole lot of amateur experience, and he was still perfecting all that while he was there. Look at the fight with Merqui Sosa, you almost don't recognize him. In the Nunn fight he started to come along, he had a rough time early, but he was starting to land those pull counter rights. But its still not a fully developed Toney. You can see it again against Reggie Johnson, getting there but not the fully skilled Toney, he was legitimately stunned by the light hand KD in the second round and although he's a good defensive fighter by that point he's still getting hit cleanly more than he did later on as he fully developed his style. Not saying he was not a very good middle, to beat Mike McCallum, Nunn, and Reggie Johnson you have to be a good fighter, but he's not the incredibly skilled, crafty defensive fighter that he became. A very good defensive fighter with more craftiness than you expect from a fighter that age, along with good handspeed, power and toughness but its not a fully developed Toney.
Plus he had trouble making 160.
So I don't know, point is the Toney at 160 was not quite the same fighter that he became, a very good one definitely but not quite as crafty. I'd probably favor Hagler by decision over the young Toney that fought at 160.
Written enough for now, I'll post on the other two some other time.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
I meant a fully skilled Toney then fighting Hagler with all his skills... He was still green at middleweight, and he still did pretty well against Nunn and was even able to counter Nunn during the earlier rounds.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
I still believe that Hagler would beat Toney, all hate aside.
Toney is an amazing boxer...but Hagler weren't no slouch either...& when boxing didn't work for Hagler...he just went to war & once that came about...I don't think we'd be lookin at James Toney the same way ever again.
Hagler's pace would be what get's to Toney also.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
How about James Toney vs:
Dave Tiberi
Montell Griffin
or
Drake Thadzi
When it comes to James Toney on this forum its like were in the Saturday Night Live Mike Ditka Sketch
"James Toney vs a Hurricane.......but wait, the hurricanes name is little Toney."
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Griffin already proved that he is the wrong opponent for any TOney, and beat him twice. However I think Toney would kill Hagler in a fight.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Griffin already proved that he is the wrong opponent for any TOney, and beat him twice.
Once :)
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Twice right after the Roy Jones fight ,and later on
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001437 check it out
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I know he technically won both, but Montell got a gift in the second fight, not a questionable decision, a gift
First one was close, but I gave it to Montell, second one Toney won clearly
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Technically Herol Graham would have beaten Hagler too..
Anyway I would have liked to see Toney vs. pre-cocaine Nunn
vs. Benn
vs. Eubank
vs. Collins
vs. McClennan
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
First presume Toney was middleweight again, and fought Hagler... how do you think it would have gone? I think that no way could Hagler hurt Toney, and Toney would win slighly on points.
Second he gets up to cruiserweight through the same regiment as HOpkins and Roy Jones did their weight gain and fought Dwight Muhammed Quawi who fought Evander the first time I seriously don't know who would win.. IMO Toney would be alot harder to hit than Evander, but he could get punished to the body which is the only place he somewhat vulnerable, and he wouldn't phase Quawi for a second.
Last he gets up to heavyweight maybe comes in at 200 or 210 at 29 and fights Frazier who just lost his second fight to Ali... I think this would be a fight of the ages with alot of punches, and like the Quawi fight I have no idea who would win.
Cool Click. I've often wondered about a Toney vs Dwight Braxton/Muhammed Quawi match up. It would be constant pressure and rage against Toney's great slick defensive countering. It'd be a truly great fight. Quawi was better than Jirov I can tell you that, not that Jirov at cruiser was a slouch, he wasn't. I don't really know who would win either, its really tuff to say. Now as for Fraizer, a prime Frazier, uh...Toney would be hurt. Joe was an all time great, true HW, with great power and skills. He would get to James, who just is not a true HW. Dunno bout the Hagler matchup, I'd probably favor Toney by a little, but Toney would have to bring his A+ game to that fight. O0
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Jirov is a sad case. I get sad when mentioning him. Because he was something special. And Toney pretty much ruined all he was. And now to watch him fight now is just sad. His last Cruiserweight fight I dont think he looked anything like himself. It's just sad and he's only .. 29?
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
hagler would have pounded james toney watch hagler mugabi and tell me if toney would have a chance against that! frazier would have knocked toney out, and quawi would have pounded his body and wore him down in a 15 rder. toney is great dont get me wrong but these guys were really something special at their primes. and to contradict starr for a minute herol graham would have lost to hagler too.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm2681
hagler would have pounded james toney watch hagler mugabi and tell me if toney would have a chance against that!
Watch Hagler Mugabi and tell me that John is Toney's stylistic equal.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm2681
hagler would have pounded james toney watch hagler mugabi and tell me if toney would have a chance against that!
Maybe so, I don't see Hagler stopping him but he could definitely outwork him. But Mugabi's not really a good comparison, a big, strong, tough middleweight with a punch, but Toney was all of that plus much much harder to hit. Hagler would have found Toney a whole lot trickier than Mugabi. I didn't even think that was one of Hagler's better performances honestly. I know everyone's gut reaction is, Hagler vs. Toney, come on. But watch the Duran fight where Duran counters Hagler well, and frustrates him on the inside. Now Duran's a pound for pound great but a guy that was at his best at 135, not 160.
Re: Theoretical Toney fights.
Sure Toney: Benn, Eubank, McClellan, etc would be great BUT I would rather see James Toney vs these guys:
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Floyd Patterson
Mathew Saad Muhamed
Dwight Muhamed Qawi
Michael Spinks
Bob Foster
Jean Marc Mormeck
Johnny Nelson
