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Floyd ray not in the top ten
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
He admitted that he could not beat Pernell, that was the most humble I have ever seen him, I was pleasantly surprised, a Mosley fight prime on prime would lean toward a UD for Mosley but it would have been close.
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
its not how many losses but the fact he hasnt suffered a loss in something like 9 years andthat he has thetitle and that he has pulled offtwo hugeupsets against gatti and judah this year
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
He admitted that he could not beat Pernell, that was the most humble I have ever seen him, I was pleasantly surprised, a Mosley fight prime on prime would lean toward a UD for Mosley but it would have been close.
Are you sure he seriously admitted that? I can't imagine Floyd seriously stating that he couldn't beat Pernell Whittaker, thats like Roy Jones admitting that he dodged Nigel Benn years ago because he was too good!
I'd fancy Floyd to beat Pernell, and I'm absolutely 100% for sure certain that Floyd thinks he would have!
The only fighter I can ever see Floyd publicly claiming he would have struggled against is his uncle Roger, and that would be some sort of family loyalty mock-humility crap :P
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by BodyHead
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
its not how many losses but the fact he hasnt suffered a loss in something like 9 years andthat he has thetitle and that he has pulled offtwo hugeupsets against gatti and judah this year
exactly....Hagler, Hearns and Duran have had their share of losses.....Baldomir is for real.....
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by bilbo
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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
He admitted that he could not beat Pernell, that was the most humble I have ever seen him, I was pleasantly surprised, a Mosley fight prime on prime would lean toward a UD for Mosley but it would have been close.
Are you sure he seriously admitted that? I can't imagine Floyd seriously stating that he couldn't beat Pernell Whittaker, thats like Roy Jones admitting that he dodged Nigel Benn years ago because he was too good!
I'd fancy Floyd to beat Pernell, and I'm absolutely 100% for sure certain that Floyd thinks he would have!
The only fighter I can ever see Floyd publicly claiming he would have struggled against is his uncle Roger, and that would be some sort of family loyalty mock-humility crap :P
I think Sweet Pea was one of his favorite fighters, the statement was made after he defeated Corrales, I am sure he remembers Pernell putting on a show against his uncle. But I was shocked too considering he is one of the most arrogant fighters since Lennox Lewis
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by bilbo
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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
He admitted that he could not beat Pernell, that was the most humble I have ever seen him, I was pleasantly surprised, a Mosley fight prime on prime would lean toward a UD for Mosley but it would have been close.
Are you sure he seriously admitted that? I can't imagine Floyd seriously stating that he couldn't beat Pernell Whittaker, thats like Roy Jones admitting that he dodged Nigel Benn years ago because he was too good!
I'd fancy Floyd to beat Pernell, and I'm absolutely 100% for sure certain that Floyd thinks he would have!
The only fighter I can ever see Floyd publicly claiming he would have struggled against is his uncle Roger, and that would be some sort of family loyalty mock-humility crap :P
Im not so sure. I do remember Floyd saying that about Whittaker, he has mentioned him several other times and always simply as a great fighter.. Whittaker was unreal in his prime, I think he could beat FLoyd. Im sure Roger has told him the same, though Floyd is much better than his uncle, Sweet P just humiliated him.
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by p4pking
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Originally Posted by bilbo
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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Whatever your opinions about floyd fighting ray... what the hell is he talking about? Who the hell is around now... the division sucks, floyd is fighting carlos balodmir a fighter with 11 losses unbelivable... duran???????? hagler?????? hearns. Floyd could not beat any of them hes good but damn he struggled with castillo for gods sake. Im not sure floy could of beaten a prime shane mosley, or even pernell whitaker..
He admitted that he could not beat Pernell, that was the most humble I have ever seen him, I was pleasantly surprised, a Mosley fight prime on prime would lean toward a UD for Mosley but it would have been close.
Are you sure he seriously admitted that? I can't imagine Floyd seriously stating that he couldn't beat Pernell Whittaker, thats like Roy Jones admitting that he dodged Nigel Benn years ago because he was too good!
I'd fancy Floyd to beat Pernell, and I'm absolutely 100% for sure certain that Floyd thinks he would have!
The only fighter I can ever see Floyd publicly claiming he would have struggled against is his uncle Roger, and that would be some sort of family loyalty mock-humility crap :P
Im not so sure. I do remember Floyd saying that about Whittaker, he has mentioned him several other times and always simply as a great fighter.. Whittaker was unreal in his prime, I think he could beat FLoyd. Im sure Roger has told him the same, though Floyd is much better than his uncle, Sweet P just humiliated him.
Ah I see, kind of makes sense if Pernell was his boxing hero growing up, kind of like De La Hoya and his love for Alexis Arguello.
I remember Tyson saying he could never have beat a prime Larry Holmes after their fight too.
I guess even the most proud boxers have idols then........
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
Mosley at lightweight could and would destroy Mayweather.
Mosley could have been one of the greatest 140 pounders ever(the same way Hearns could have been one of the best junior middleweights ever) But Mosley went to 147 and Hearns went to 160 so we'll never know
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
Hearns was one of the best jr. middles of all time. The quantity might not be there but the quality is, win over Benitez, and the dominant win over Duran, along with all the other wins he had there. Just how good he looked there gives him a spot.
Especially considering 154 is not one of the old divisions, how many great 154's have there been? You've got guys like Terry Norris, Mike McCallum, Winky, a lot of guys didn't stay long at 154.
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Hearns was one of the best jr. middles of all time. The quantity might not be there but the quality is, win over Benitez, and the dominant win over Duran, along with all the other wins he had there. Just how good he looked there gives him a spot.
Especially considering 154 is not one of the old divisions, how many great 154's have there been? You've got guys like Terry Norris, Mike McCallum, Winky, a lot of guys didn't stay long at 154.
i dunno man yeah hearns was a bad bad man, a great fighter for sure but things could have been alot different for duran had he chased these fights earlier and at lower weights etc..
i mean put it this way... duran beat leonard in about 1980 1981 .. and didnt fight hearns till something like 4 years later and then didnt fight hagler till something like another 5 years after hearns or something..
and if duran had not blown up 40 odd pounds after each fight and had to loose all the wieght before each fight that on top of bieng naturally a heavy handed lightweight, he just couldnt stand up to hagler and hearns at the time he fought them...
i say this while taking as little as possible away from hagler hearns lol i cant say i dont take anything away from them cos that would be false.. but still very big wins!
peace
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by Starr
Mosley at lightweight could and would destroy Mayweather.
Mosley could have been one of the greatest 140 pounders ever(the same way Hearns could have been one of the best junior middleweights ever) But Mosley went to 147 and Hearns went to 160 so we'll never know
You know I was gonna comment...But Trying to reason with Starr gives me a headache... :banghead:
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by BodyHead
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Hearns was one of the best jr. middles of all time. The quantity might not be there but the quality is, win over Benitez, and the dominant win over Duran, along with all the other wins he had there. Just how good he looked there gives him a spot.
Especially considering 154 is not one of the old divisions, how many great 154's have there been? You've got guys like Terry Norris, Mike McCallum, Winky, a lot of guys didn't stay long at 154.
i dunno man yeah hearns was a bad bad man, a great fighter for sure but things could have been alot different for duran had he chased these fights earlier and at lower weights etc..
i mean put it this way... duran beat leonard in about 1980 1981 .. and didnt fight hearns till something like 4 years later and then didnt fight hagler till something like another 5 years after hearns or something..
and if duran had not blown up 40 odd pounds after each fight and had to loose all the wieght before each fight that on top of bieng naturally a heavy handed lightweight, he just couldnt stand up to hagler and hearns at the time he fought them...
i say this while taking as little as possible away from hagler hearns lol i cant say i dont take anything away from them cos that would be false.. but still very big wins!
peace
Beating Duran was a big win, but even more so it was how he beat Duran. Nobody did that to Duran. And Duran came back to give Hagler a pretty close 15 round fight at 160 and beat Barkley at 160. And Benitez is another very good one.
Mainly though, its just that 154 doesn't have that huge list of top guys. For one, it wasn't one of the original weight classes, it hasn't been around as long. Two, its not the glamour division that 147 or 160 is so the really elite guys don't tend to stay there that long. At 126, 147, 160, 175, HW, the alltime lists are so deep cause they've been around the whole time and they're glamor divisions. Divisions like 154 and 168, its easier to make an all time list, a lot of people think Roy Jones was the best super middle of all time and he didn't have many fights at that division either. Right off the top of my head I can't think of ten better stints at junior middle than Hearns'. None of the current guys except for Winky, Oscar's beaten Vargas and Mayorga there but lost to Mosley. Mosley's beaten Oscar and Vargas but lost twice to Winky. Tito had a good stint there with the Reid and Vargas wins but he was gone quick too and I'll take Benitez and Duran over Reid and Vargas. Not saying Hearns is the best jr. middle of all time, but there's not that many better.
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by BodyHead
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Hearns was one of the best jr. middles of all time. The quantity might not be there but the quality is, win over Benitez, and the dominant win over Duran, along with all the other wins he had there. Just how good he looked there gives him a spot.
Especially considering 154 is not one of the old divisions, how many great 154's have there been? You've got guys like Terry Norris, Mike McCallum, Winky, a lot of guys didn't stay long at 154.
i dunno man yeah hearns was a bad bad man, a great fighter for sure but things could have been alot different for duran had he chased these fights earlier and at lower weights etc..
i mean put it this way... duran beat leonard in about 1980 1981 .. and didnt fight hearns till something like 4 years later and then didnt fight hagler till something like another 5 years after hearns or something..
and if duran had not blown up 40 odd pounds after each fight and had to loose all the wieght before each fight that on top of bieng naturally a heavy handed lightweight, he just couldnt stand up to hagler and hearns at the time he fought them...
i say this while taking as little as possible away from hagler hearns lol i cant say i dont take anything away from them cos that would be false.. but still very big wins!
peace
Beating Duran was a big win, but even more so it was how he beat Duran. Nobody did that to Duran. And Duran came back to give Hagler a pretty close 15 round fight at 160 and beat Barkley at 160. And Benitez is another very good one.
Mainly though, its just that 154 doesn't have that huge list of top guys. For one, it wasn't one of the original weight classes, it hasn't been around as long. Two, its not the glamour division that 147 or 160 is so the really elite guys don't tend to stay there that long. At 126, 147, 160, 175, HW, the alltime lists are so deep cause they've been around the whole time and they're glamor divisions. Divisions like 154 and 168, its easier to make an all time list, a lot of people think Roy Jones was the best super middle of all time and he didn't have many fights at that division either. Right off the top of my head I can't think of ten better stints at junior middle than Hearns'. None of the current guys except for Winky, Oscar's beaten Vargas and Mayorga there but lost to Mosley. Mosley's beaten Oscar and Vargas but lost twice to Winky. Tito had a good stint there with the Reid and Vargas wins but he was gone quick too and I'll take Benitez and Duran over Reid and Vargas. Not saying Hearns is the best jr. middle of all time, but there's not that many better.
yeh i definately get what you mean ..
im one of the guys that aregue that although toney and roy jones never stuck around in super middle theyr still both some of the best super middles in history!!
just as i feel tito should be remembered as a great fighter a light middle...
so yeh my sentiments exactly its who they fight not how many fights!!
i always found it a shame that we could never find out how duran matched up with the other greats of the 80's prime versus prime and maybe at a lower wieght... but that doesnt take anything away fromt he mark that hearns and hagler left on the light middle and middleweight divisions!! lol
peace
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
Duran moved up because of lifestyle and all the Lightweights were teriffied of him
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
Floyd's pops was handled by Leonard
Duran moved up because he didn't fight as often and he had more and more trouble cutting weight...he's still fucking fighting
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Floyd's pops was handled by Leonard
Duran moved up because he didn't fight as often and he had more and more trouble cutting weight...he's still fucking fighting
is duran still fighting today? :o
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
he took a break because he was in a car accident but he plans to keep on fighting
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
Duran's a promoter now, at least according to boxrec he hasn't fought since 2001.
plus he's looking more like a heavyweight these days.
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by Lyle
he took a break because he was in a car accident but he plans to keep on fighting
thats really not good... i thought roberto had finally hung the gloves up for christ sakes lol...
looks like what i said is true litterally maybe he will be fighting till he dies...
it kinda still adds to the appeal of duran in a way!! like hes sucha hard bastard that hes been fighting all his life and hes still fighting for a living is just what he does! lol :P
peace
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Duran's a promoter now, at least according to boxrec he hasn't fought since 2001.
plus he's looking more like a heavyweight these days.
Yeah he had a bad car accident he had injuries to his lungs and ribs and so on....I had heard he's going to continue but I am not exactly 100% sure
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by BodyHead
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Hearns was one of the best jr. middles of all time. The quantity might not be there but the quality is, win over Benitez, and the dominant win over Duran, along with all the other wins he had there. Just how good he looked there gives him a spot.
Especially considering 154 is not one of the old divisions, how many great 154's have there been? You've got guys like Terry Norris, Mike McCallum, Winky, a lot of guys didn't stay long at 154.
i dunno man yeah hearns was a bad bad man, a great fighter for sure but things could have been alot different for duran had he chased these fights earlier and at lower weights etc..
i mean put it this way... duran beat leonard in about 1980 1981 .. and didnt fight hearns till something like 4 years later and then didnt fight hagler till something like another 5 years after hearns or something..
and if duran had not blown up 40 odd pounds after each fight and had to loose all the wieght before each fight that on top of bieng naturally a heavy handed lightweight, he just couldnt stand up to hagler and hearns at the time he fought them...
i say this while taking as little as possible away from hagler hearns lol i cant say i dont take anything away from them cos that would be false.. but still very big wins!
peace
Ouma already pointed out as much, but Duran fought Hagler before Hearns, and he gave him a very good fight. So he could stand up to him.. It was close almost the whole way through and went 15 rounds.. Hearns absolutely annialited him in 2, Duran was never even in the fight. I will admit that Duran probably wasn't in good shape, not as good as he was for Hagler, but I doubt it would have made any difference, if you just watch Hearns work on that night, he would have killed any version of Duran that could have conceivably came to the ring, imo.
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
yea duran wasnt past it im not saying that u are saying that just making a point even after losing to hearns he had that thriller with barkley one of his greatest victorys so he was still very good when he fought hearns back in 1984 was it ??
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
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Originally Posted by bilbo
Are you sure he seriously admitted that? I can't imagine Floyd seriously stating that he couldn't beat Pernell Whittaker, thats like Roy Jones admitting that he dodged Nigel Benn years ago because
not really the same as Sweet pea and Mayweather pretty much fought in different eras
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Re: Floyd ray not in the top ten
Ray Leonard would be the best fighter in the world ATM, quite Handily.
