Official Debate Thread (EVERYBODY LOGGED IN NOW, CHECK IT OUT)

Alright, I'm seeing a bunch of Haters and Lovers and Debates and Dissing going on.
Some good statements and some statements that were just hating.

Here's your opportunity to settle any and all debates


This is the official debate thread, if you have a topic you want to debate on and you want to defend it, this is the place for you.

Each Debate will consist of

The Debater

The Challenger

The Voters


You can discuss what you think will happen in a fight(example, Oscar vs. Floyd Mayweather) or in boxing all together(example, Same day weigh ins, bad decisions, opinion of a fighter, etc)

And present why you think that either one of them will win or why you think these rules need to be changed or about a person etc and lay down a "Challenge"

A Challenge means you're opening up to be debated with.

This challenge can be accepted by the first poster to decide to chime in with their reason disagreeing with yours, and then you both will have a debate.


This person is called the Challenger.

You will need three voters assigned for the debate to be official.

You may decide to end the debate at any time(with agreeing of the challenger) and three three voters assigned will decide the winner of the debate and why they felt that way.


Voters must base their result on things presented during the debate and not their own personal feelings on the issue

Example: A Margarito fan can't automatically say the Margarito supporter is right because he likes Margarito.

After the winner of the debate is decided it will be squashed here.

So hopefully there will be less dissing on this forum and hopefully less banning of posters on this forum.

When two people start a debate about a subject, do not interfere(congrats and props are allowed but not getting into the debate or assisting either side in it with your own opinions)

But you can start a debate of your own however and lay down a challenge that another poster can become the Challenger on.

(please try to keep all insults to the poster at a minimum and keep the fun)

If you have to result to insulting the one you are debating with on things that have nothing to do with boxing you will automatically lose the debate

(Example: But you're stupid, you're from the south)

But calling someone a hater and then backing up why, is allowed, just keep it clean and keep it fun.

This will help settle a lot of scores and try to get rid of the people that just post "You're stupid if you think this and that."

This is the post to prove why you think that.

The Official Debate Thread.

Thanks for playing


-Majesty

...a very good idea...CC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

...a very good idea...CC

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CC back Lyle

Thanks dude

I guess no one wants to start this out....everyone is scared

I'll participate...I challenge anyone to explain to me the positive side of Evander Holyfield's comeback

Maj, I've always liked your comments and insight... what a great idea!!! CC 2day snd 2morrow.... Who shall begin... I will if no one else........anyone???? anyone???? Beuler???(hope some of you get that ;D)

My challenge is this:

Floyd Mayweather has never dealt with a truly technical boxer like ODLH. I don't think he can beat the bigger man... Oscar has the speed of a lightweight and the power of a jr. middle... I think the accumulation of Oscars landed puches will take their toll... TKO late

Quote:

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Originally Posted by "PRIDE OF BOSTON"

My challenge is this:

Floyd Mayweather has never dealt with a truly technical boxer like ODLH. I don't think he can beat the bigger man... Oscar has the speed of a lightweight and the power of a jr. middle... I think the accumulation of Oscars landed puches will take their toll... TKO late

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what u say is true pbf has never fought a technical boxer of ODLH calibire,but in saying that,ODLH is not the technition he once was,imo ODLH is to old to beat mayweather..he will lose ;D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stavros693000

Quote:

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Originally Posted by "PRIDE OF BOSTON"

My challenge is this:

Floyd Mayweather has never dealt with a truly technical boxer like ODLH. I don't think he can beat the bigger man... Oscar has the speed of a lightweight and the power of a jr. middle... I think the accumulation of Oscars landed puches will take their toll... TKO late

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what u say is true pbf has never fought a technical boxer of ODLH calibire,but in saying that,ODLH is not the technition he once was,imo ODLH is to old to beat mayweather..he will lose ;D

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You sound like Ivan Drago..."You will lose." We shall see. Old? ;D... He looked great fighting Ricardo... I know he hand picked him so don't even start but it was only to set up a fight with floyd!... He is a brilliant promoter... Do you, in your heart or hearts, think that oscar would take this fight... Right now... If he didn't(not think) but know he could win... Floyd will be fighting @ 154... What????????????.... ODLH... and I'm not even an Oscar fan O0

Itake it you're my challenger............Next!!!

well all old boxers still think they can win,i mean look at evander..he thinks he can still unify the HW division..HA HA HA HA :LMAO: :lolhaha: :lolololol:......
...........but imo PBF is way to slick for ODLH ....UD or SD for mayweather!!......oscar dosent have half the speed and ring generalship he had in his prime ,like all has beens,but in his prime ODLH takes pretty boy to school ;D

oscar has MUCH more power then floyd.... He works off of sheer acumulation of punches but oscar has KO ability when needed... Oscar knows he is not what he used to be... But he always has been able to adapt to his suroundings... Floyds best point is his ability to use his game plan... If it doesn't work he has no plroblem adapting.... ODLH wrote the book

:-X

i guess we'll have to wait and see.......but i hope OSCAR KNOCKS PRETTY BOY DA FUK OUT......
.......................
.........but i dont like his chances!...PEACE OUT! ;D

Hey Maj almost 200 CC's 8) :coolclick:

Its a Great idea ...I was thinking along the same lines as you a few days ago after reading Wackos rant on Mud-slinging ;D

Supose it would make us a far more civilised culture than those Barbaric Monsters over at Eastside :-X ::**

It wouldnt be a bad idea if it were made into its own board (After all we do have a loose predictions board here).

I challenge Saddo and You Maj, to bash heads and get it moving, your ignoramus ;)

i was actually impressed with oscars last win thought he looked sharp if he fights with the same sort of sharpness against mayweather will be very close fight

First debate was between

Debater "PRIDE OF BOSTON"

Challenger stavros693000

You need three voters, who will decide the winner of this debate.

I'm definatly not going to get into this majesty, deabating with you is like banging your head against a brick wall, that'll never give in, or even consider someone else's views, you'd make a great politician bro ;)
Cool idea though, I vote for stavros693000

. Starto is basing the bulk of his debate on using the age factor which mean nothing in this fight, Oscar is only 33 years old. Almost all the great champions are in their mid to late 30's .

Pride brings up some more core issues,. and i agree with him.

I vote for Pride of Boston ;)

This would be really killer Maj ... check this out.. hire an Attorney to represent your case. one of the forum members to debate on your behalf ! lol.. something like that would killer. keeps the emotions down and would be funny as hell to watch
. ;)

I vote for Pride of Boston

He made some great points while stavros693000 made some good ones too but seemed mainly focused on Oscar's age instead of Floyd's skill.

fair enough,but i want to say one more thing........i believe age is the main issue here...ODLH(dont get me wrong,i think he is an ATG IMO and future HOF one of my FAVES) but he is way past his best,hes slowed down conciderably from the golden boy from the 90's we've all come to love,he's just not as sharp as he used to be,i mean the guys got grey hair at 33 for fuk sake......on the other hand PBF is just hittin his stride and primed up,hes to fast for oscar,.......delahoya will be eatin straight rights and uppercuts all night....maybe be oscar can do alright from the outside but not enough to win.but if he gets draged into a brawl i see him getting KTFO!

I REALLY HOPE OSCAR CAN PULL OF AN UPSET,BUT LODGIC TELLS ME OTHERWISE! :'(

I vote for stavros693000

Well there's a draw.

Alright, voting will end tomorrow at 12 PM.

Winner will ne announced then.

And if it is still a draw.

There will be a final statement by both which I will judge. The winner of that statement will win the debate.

Can I vote too?

If so I vote for "PRIDE OF BOSTON"

He attacked the debate from more than one angle.

And "PRIDE" I'm old enough to get the Ferris Beuler joke as well ;)

PRIDE stavros693000
3 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thanks dude

I guess no one wants to start this out....everyone is scared

I'll participate...I challenge anyone to explain to me the positive side of Evander Holyfield's comeback

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First off it's not a comeback because he never left so there is no challenge to explain it. Second he is most likely in 10 to 1000 times in better shape then any computer hack on this forum and most likely 99.9% of all heavyweight boxers out there and can beat many of them if not most of them. Fighting is his CHOSEN profession and livelyhood and who are you to say he can't do it anymore. There are fighters out there who get beat just about everytime they step in the ring for some up and comer and no one is forcing them out. So Lyle what do you do for a living and are you the absolute best there is or are there thousands out there that make you look like an amateur. This no challenge at all, I'm saying your opinion of Holyfield don't mean squat to anyone but yourself. Now why don't you convince everyone he has no business in the ring when he just defeated a top 15 contender of the world who fought and was robbed of the title against Byrd two years ago. Oh I know he's not the fastest and the hardest puncher in the heavyweight division. Hey guess what Lyle, either is 99.9% of all heavyweights. So in your eyes thats reason enough to forceably retire him.

The positive side, how about he's a man who happens to enjoy what he does and can, and he has fans that will watch him fight whether you will or not makes no difference. now the negative side, he faces the fate or chance that all fighters face, a loss, brain damage or maybe even death. If we or you follow your opinion then there should be no boxing, wrestling, football, baseball, mixed martial arts, gymnastics, downhill hill ski racing, auto racing, motorcycle racing, bobsledding, I could go on and on and name just about every sport there is. Now tell us the negatives that no other fighter or sportsman faces.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stebs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thanks dude

I guess no one wants to start this out....everyone is scared

I'll participate...I challenge anyone to explain to me the positive side of Evander Holyfield's comeback

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First off it's not a comeback because he never left so there is no challenge to explain it. Second he is most likely in 10 to 1000 times in better shape then any computer hack on this forum and most likely 99.9% of all heavyweight boxers out there and can beat many of them if not most of them. Fighting is his CHOSEN profession and livelyhood and who are you to say he can't do it anymore. There are fighters out there who get beat just about everytime they step in the ring for some up and comer and no one is forcing them out. So Lyle what do you do for a living and are you the absolute best there is or are there thousands out there that make you look like an amateur. This no challenge at all, I'm saying your opinion of Holyfield don't mean squat to anyone but yourself. Now why don't you convince everyone he has no business in the ring when he just defeated a top 15 contender of the world who fought and was robbed of the title against Byrd two years ago. Oh I know he's not the fastest and the hardest puncher in the heavyweight division. Hey guess what Lyle, either is 99.9% of all heavyweights. So in your eyes thats reason enough to forceably retire him.

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Second debate

DEBATER Lyle

CHALLENGER stebs

Alrighty :juggle:

#1 It IS a comeback because an inability to get a LICENSE caused the "Holy Warrior" to have a hiatus

Larry Donald 11-13-2004.......long break......Jeremy Bates 8-18-2006....roughly 2 years, I believe it qualifies as a break and so this right meow would be called a COMEBACK....because he's COMING .....BACK.....to boxing


#2 Fitness guru Jack Lalane is like 93 and he's in better shape than most of us on the forum.....doesn't mean he'll win any titles anytime soon

#3 As a FAN of the sport of boxing, I not only care to watch great fights but I care to see great fighters live to influence fighters of another generation

#4 Journeymen getting licensed is one thing....they don't make enough money to JUST box...usually they have another job so when people say "don't quit your day job" they are talking to those guys

#5 Yes there are people better than me at what I do......but I am not getting brain damage from trying...awwww shux fella I wish I could

#6 My opinion is backed up by numerous boxing fans

#7 Fres Oquendo is ALSO on the comeback trail....and he got TKO'd by John Ruiz. But yeah I had him beating Byrd too.

#8 Listen to Evander talk....he's like 5 punches past retarded....and that was after the Bowe trilogy. And even if you STOP boxing your brain will not heal from those blows to the head.


Let me ask you stebs, would you rather Evander be like he is now or would you rather him be like Gerald McClellan???

.....do I win yet?

I say you call it a no-contest. They both sucked equally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I say you call it a no-contest. They both sucked equally.

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....well good mornin' sunshine ;D

I give the first one to Pride and im still undecided on the second one, i have Lyle winning on points rite nowwww, but can stebs turn it round or TKO Lyle to take this one?!

I gotta vote for Stebs


Lyles points have no validity.

The facts are .
. Evander passed his medical and beat 2 fighters in the last several months one of which was ranked in the top 12.

Example look at Lyle’s #8 “Listen to Evander Talk?” ?? fact is Evander has been talking like that all his life. that’s not some new issue. Nice try my friend ! But this case should be thrown out of Court ;D

stebs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Alrighty :juggle:

#1 It IS a comeback because an inability to get a LICENSE caused the "Holy Warrior" to have a hiatus

Larry Donald 11-13-2004.......long break......Jeremy Bates 8-18-2006....roughly 2 years, I believe it qualifies as a break and so this right meow would be called a COMEBACK....because he's COMING .....BACK.....to boxing


#2 Fitness guru Jack Lalane is like 93 and he's in better shape than most of us on the forum.....doesn't mean he'll win any titles anytime soon

#3 As a FAN of the sport of boxing, I not only care to watch great fights but I care to see great fighters live to influence fighters of another generation

#4 Journeymen getting licensed is one thing....they don't make enough money to JUST box...usually they have another job so when people say "don't quit your day job" they are talking to those guys

#5 Yes there are people better than me at what I do......but I am not getting brain damage from trying...awwww shux fella I wish I could

#6 My opinion is backed up by numerous boxing fans

#7 Fres Oquendo is ALSO on the comeback trail....and he got TKO'd by John Ruiz. But yeah I had him beating Byrd too.

#8 Listen to Evander talk....he's like 5 punches past retarded....and that was after the Bowe trilogy. And even if you STOP boxing your brain will not heal from those blows to the head.


Let me ask you stebs, would you rather Evander be like he is now or would you rather him be like Gerald McClellan???

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I don't know if this is allowed since I never read the rules of the debate forum but i think a couple of Lyles points need to be addressed.

#1, Lyle the medical suspension had nothing to do with his health, It had more to do with Holyfield not living up to the lofty goals he set for himself and his passed performances that we all remember. He did finish the fight with no adverse health issues.

#2 doesn't even merit an answer

#3 might merit an answer. Holyfield has and still influences fighters with his great heart and determination, of both the new generation and old generation of fighters.

#4 Giving these guys a license to take a beating should not have been typed by you, see your last statement about McClellan

#5 There is always someone better on any given night in any profession, and since we don't know your profession we don't know if you could substain brain damage. But you have to remember that all fighters face this reality.

#6 Again it's just your opinion. he has been licensed by the medical field to fight, so is a boxing fans opinion more qualified then the the doctors who cleared him to fight.

#7 We both agree Fres beat Byrd, and we both know Fres lost two of his last four fights, one to Ruiz and one to Holyfield. We also know Ruiz is unappreciated because of his style ( fans opinion again ) but he keeps winning fights. That doesn't mean any of them shouldn't be allowed in their chosen profession.

#8 You mention brain damage after the Bowe trilogy but you fail to mention that he won the title from Tyson in classic Holyfield style a year later and then defended it four times after that before losing it to Lennox and then regaining a portion of it after that.

Your last statement should not have been asked. I'm a fan just like you and would not want to see what happened to McClellan on anyone, whether it's a journeymen getting licensed to take a beating or a ring legend like Holyfield, you should ask yourself that question about the journeymen.

I responded Lyle so now it's back to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I say you call it a no-contest. They both sucked equally.

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VD you pull no punches, it must be that muthafuckin gang mentality you mention in your profile, I like your honesty and your thoughts on what some misguided people think of the so called greatest of greats Calzaghe. This might earn me some sad points from the Calzaghe fans but who the f*ck cares.

Holyfield's fighting at 44 is different than Foreman's fighting at 44. George didn't have as many wars as Evander, George took time off in the 80's, and he was a different fighter when he came back, he blocked better, he used the jab more. But even then if you look at Evander Holyfield in his fights from the first Lennox Lewis fight on to now there has been a STEADY decline in his skills.

My point #2 is that physical shape is one thing but it's not the end all be all of boxing....there are guys out there who are in incredible shape but their brains are mush from being hit too much

All fighters face the brain damage part of the sport it can happen in 1 fight for one guy and in the 200th fight for another. The thing is the style that Evander uses, coupled with the previous fights he has had make him more likely to be hurt in future fights.


Ruiz beat Evander and even when Evander was in as prime of a condition as he always is in regards to weight and he got the crap beat out of him once, fought even another time, and barely scraped by another time....all the while taking LOTS of punches. Holyfield in his prime would have really battered Ruiz....but in the fights he was outworked and that's not Evander's style, he was always in great shape throwing more punches, landing good combinations, and then smothering the counters.


In regards to the journeymen, they have to pass the same licensing as Holyfield ....do you want Evander to become a journeyman? It sounds like people want him to keep fighting until he's dead which if he steps up his competition just might happen sooner rather than later.

Stebs, you make a good arguement

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

In regards to the journeymen, they have to pass the same licensing as Holyfield ....do you want Evander to become a journeyman? It sounds like people want him to keep fighting until he's dead which if he steps up his competition just might happen sooner rather than later.

Stebs, you make a good arguement

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Hell no I don't want him to become a jouneyman, I can tell your a fan of Holyfield also and don't want to see him get hurt. I became a fan of Holyfield when he beat Ricky Womack ( Kronk fighter in my hometown ) in back to back fights way way back in the Olympic boxoff's to earn his way on the olympic team. But with the current crop I think he could win a piece of the pie. But to unify the titles, no way, he has the heart, determination and conditioning to continue on though, at his age his reflexes are not what they used to be and thats his downfall as most already know. I don't think we'll ever see a unified champ again, just to many sanctioning bodies and promoters to satisfy. When you look at the champs out there ( Oleg Maskaev, Nicolay Valuev, Wladimir Klitschko, Shannon Briggs ) you have to give him a chance agains't at least one or two of these fighters. I just hope he stays away from both the Klitschko's if Vitali comes back and wins a title.

Voting has been closed for the PRIDE OF BOSTON and stavros693000.

The winner of the first debate is.

Pride of Boston

winning a close 3 to 2 decision.

Lyle vs. stebs debate still in progress

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stebs

Hell no I don't want him to become a jouneyman, I can tell your a fan of Holyfield also and don't want to see him get hurt. I became a fan of Holyfield when he beat Ricky Womack ( Kronk fighter in my hometown ) in back to back fights way way back in the Olympic boxoff's to earn his way on the olympic team. But with the current crop I think he could win a piece of the pie. But to unify the titles, no way, he has the heart, determination and conditioning to continue on though, at his age his reflexes are not what they used to be and thats his downfall as most already know. I don't think we'll ever see a unified champ again, just to many sanctioning bodies and promoters to satisfy. When you look at the champs out there ( Oleg Maskaev, Nicolay Valuev, Wladimir Klitschko, Shannon Briggs ) you have to give him a chance agains't at least one or two of these fighters. I just hope he stays away from both the Klitschko's if Vitali comes back and wins a title.

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I'm not Holyfield's biggest fan but I respect what he has accomplished and as a fan of boxing I don't wish to see Great fighters or ANY fighters for that matter end up hurt or disabled.

I just don't want Don King to milk all the cash out of Holyfield and leave him on the street as a shell of a man. And I have been yelling it from the top of my lungs the moment Holyfield came back

HOLYFIELD WILL BE USED TO LEGITIMIZE NICOLAY VALUEV'S RECORD

That plain fact is undeniable....Valuev has fought nothing but bums as of late and he needs a tested heavyweight to establish himself as better than the rest.

Have you wondered why Holyfield fought Fres Oquendo? Fres can't punch! Fres ain't big! And when he's not motivated he's worse than pretty much anyone out there.

I have my doubts about Nicolay's power, in fact I KNOW he doesn't have that much because it took him 11 rounds to get a ring rusted Monte Barrett out! However, the fact he is 7'0 tall 325 pounds and has used rabbit punching to KO opponents worries me.

Don King wants money and he wants his fighters to be recognized as the best even if they really haven't proven it...and this guy is going to give Evander Holyfield fights??? That is a MAJOR worry