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For anyone who wants to know what full on competitive judo is about watch this. Its very combative and i think you'll agree its got a great range of submissions. Its short and explosive and extremely nasty. Not a great deal of throws in here but some good submissions and showcases some great athletic abilities. More injuries in judo than there is in anything else.
[youtube=425,350]4u41omoNO4U[/youtube]
good stuff. cc I really want to take some but can't afford boxing dues AND judo dues at the same time. Judo will have to wait since I've already paid for boxing.
some really cool footage at 1:41, 2:34 and 2:52
munk, what the hell was happeneing at 2:34?
CC back mate.
It looked like a reverse Koshi Jime. Basically your opponent is on his front and is trying to turtle into a defensive position and you grab his far side lapel and pull it across the windpipe choking him. As he tries to move round (as a natural reaction) to try and loosen the choke you just move with it and it tightens up. Its a horrible choke too as its a windpipe choke which means it pulls your larynx to the back of your neck and creates immediate panic and horrible pain.
Nasty little fooka.
I love the flying armbar juiji gatame at the start. To be able to pull that one off in live comp you have to be fukcing skilled!
Ahh...very cool shit there. I friggin love the sport. Beats the hell out of watching TKD tournaments or even Olympic boxing (actually...better than watching normal boxing most of the time with the fights these days).
I really don't quite understand why it hasn't caught on with the MMA crowd yet to crosstrain with it, especially with SAMBO (for all intents and purposes the same as Judo, only Russian, from everything I've heard) being the background of Fedor and the former champ AA (although in all honesty, you'd never know it with Arlovski).
well D, it seems to me that's easy to answer. But I could be wrong. Here goes: most people, even the ones who know something about mma, think judo is nothing but throws. I thought that too until just about 8months ago when munkey started touting its virtues. They actually have no idea that judo is so much more. Another thing is that the Gracies have basically bullshitted the entire mma world into believing that Rickson is the be all end all of grappling. As such, they think the Gracies invented the groundgame and arm bars and chokes and all that, and that the ground game is exclusive to Brazil. All Gracie did, IMO, was adopt absolutely nothing that hadn't been done for centuries before him, put his name on it, and claimed it as his own Brazillian brand of fighting.
OMT... BJJ aint half of what the judo ground game is. Royce would get schooled by a judo guy, IMO.
Id love to see anJudo Olympian against someone like Rickson GracieQuote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
what do you think the outcome would be?
Von i would love to agree with you here but inavariably the BJJ exponent wins if its a ground grappling match simply because thats solely what they work on. They roll constantly and quite frankly its fookin boring to watch. Anyone ever wathed a BJJ match? Its ok for the first 5 minutes watching them gain dominant positions but after that its not very interesting...constantly waiting in guard for an opportunity and there is very little action.
Go watch a live judo match and see someone get tossed in the air at the blink of an eye, then if the guys twsist out of the throw and lands on his front watch how quickly and explosively the agressor moves into the groundwork.
Judo newaza is a lot more explosive. Because of limited matt time in competition if you are gonna do something on the ground you do it f*cking quick you dont hang about. Myself and a couple of other lads from my school went to a BJJ class. Ok it was a bit naughty and we wore white belts. The instructor was a fookin blue belt BJJ! We had some fun there ;D. At the end of the day i respect BJJ for what it is and thats a great submission art. All of BJJ's subs have been explored and expaned from Judo..orginally kosen judo which is a pretty much newaza based form of Kodokan judo.
If you want to know what happens when an olympic level judoka fights a skilled BJJ exponent then look at Hidehiko Yoshidas matches against Royce Gracie. First one Yoshida won (ok it was contraversial and everyone has their opinion on it) the second match was a draw. Yoshida won the gold medal at the Barcelona olympics and was quite frankly not greatly known for groundwork. his uchimata throw was one of the fiercest around and he slammed everybody with it. I think you'll agree though that Judo stacks up nicely against BJJ on the ground but pound for pound BJJ has the edge because its solely what they work on.
As for the most rounded in terms of submissions and takedowns, balance on the feet, defence against takedowns the i'm sorry all you BJJers (and i love you believe me) but Judo pips you to the post.
Oh and there is also the small matter of Kimura (great japanese judoka) breaking Helio Gracies arm in a match. He got him in a ude garame which is now called...well...a kimura.
So all you MMA ers at least now when you hear people talk about Kimuras being aplied and it being a great BJJ move at least now you can correct them and say "erm sorry its actually Judo...know your place son"
Here's a little history on how the greatest BJJ'er got owned by one of the greatest Judokas (i suppose in some way backing your threory Von ;) ). Kimura was awesome
http://www.grapplearts.com/Kimura-Article.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masahiko_Kimura
:)
Good stuff, man. Thanks for the lesson! ;D
Munk, how can I find out when the next judo competition is in my area? I'd love to go check some out. I live in the suburbs of Detroit Michigan, home of the Motor city Cobra, Thomas the Hit Man Hearns! ;D PS- I live in a nice area (Canton township), not the ghetto! 8)
Competitions and gradings will be held by the US governing body for Judo.Its USA Judo Also i think there is a USJF. I am a brit so governed by the BJA, this is the olympic organisation. Everyone falls into line with the IJF (International Judo Federation). The olympic body for the US is USA Judo
http://www.usjudo.org/
Ive just done a search on detroit michigan going through the USA Judo site and its brought up the Michigan Judo site (seems each state has a governing body as such that falls in line with the USAJ body...dang you guys do things complicated)
Anyway..have a look here http://www.michiganjudo.org/ListDojo...tate=MI&area=1 its a list of dojo's in the michigan area. May be out of date and not helpful , who knows. It might however be worth giving them a call and asking when the next grading or comp is so you can pop along and watch. I did click on the Detroit section so hopefully these dojo's are near to you.
Sorry can't be more helpful
Girl's sport ;)
No way that any of them could deal with a good old fashioned windmill!!!
Nah, but seriously - Judo has got to be the most effective martial art :-\
wouldn't it be easier to soccer kick his head?Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky
On the street yes. However i tried that on the matt and it got me fined and banned from competition for 2 years, it also didn't help that i poked him in the eyes and also grabbed his larynx and pulled it toward me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Was a bad night for me that night...
LOL That's what it's about ;D
By the way, CC to Munky and Von for this thread in general. Very interesting stuff and good discussion. Always good seeing that here on our little board ;)
Right back atcha, my man. (35) ;)
get a room you two. ;D
Nope. I'm waiting on you Missy. :bananasex:
The MMA Forum IS our room. The Man on Man Action room (that whole mixed martial arts thingy is just some random words to cover up the gay sex that the sport really is)
Amazing how few people post in here these days. When I first got her it was a hotbed of activity. Now it's D, Munk, majesty, me and a few radom others from time to time. Van (Childs) is in Iraq, in case you didn't know.
Cheers Von, was wondering where he had gotten to. Hope he's ok.
Keep waiting :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
I think people do check out this forum. Maybe intimidated by the threat of Munkys clothes line approach
WWF style ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Missy would love to get a real man in her guard :-X
I'll do it. :boobs2: :fking:
Hey Munky,
In my amateur view, one thing I've noticed about judo is that the guy who gets the successful throw (and the point?) can soemtimes be the guy who ends up in the more precarious position, or even the guy that looks to have take the worst of the blow. Can you comment on this? Thanks.
Hey Von, to get the 10 points for a clean throw (ippon) the other guys needs to land on his back with force. A wazari can be scored by making the ooponent land on his back without force and yuko's are 3 point scores given for various things. If a chap is thrown with force onto his back thats the end of the contest. Sometime the 'thrower' can end up in an odd position after the throw has been executed but rest assured the other chap is on his back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
Also it all depends on the type of throw. The very first throw you see in my vid is a drop seionage (one armed drop shoulder throw). The opponent went sraight on his back and to be fair the agressor didn't need the armbar because the point had already been won. If you can point to an example somewhere or maybe in the vid of what you mean then i can look at it. However in my experience the thrower always lands in the dominant position so that he can go straight into a hold down or sumission if need be. Stands to reason that if your opponent is going onto his back you will follow him down in a dominant position. Sometimes the uke (opponent) will twist out of the throw (not land on his back) but even then he is giving the agressor his back and lining himself up for a koshe jime (like the one you pointed out in the vid)
Almost all the time the thrower ends up the dominant person once is goes to ground. is this what you are asking? Maybe i have misread your question.
That's definately one of the things that I love about Judo or BJJ. BJJ seems to be all about pulling guard, or takedowns that THEORETICALLY land you in side guard, but always in actuality leave you in their guard (which many BJJ practitioners consider to be the dominant position). So in BJJ theory, most takedowns leave your opponent in the dominant position.
In Judo, every throw I've seen leaves you mounted/north south or in side guard, with easy access to (generally, from what I've seen) armbars or kimuras. How could you NOT want to learn those types of throws? Especially ones thrown from a clinch-type position, where many fights seem to wind up these days with so many wrestlers getting their shots stuffed. Why wouldn't the wrestler or his opponent want to know more takedowns from that position?
All valid points and CC for the vid.
I'm a huge MMA fan and was one of the many misled into believing that many of the "BJJ" techniques were unique to bjj and not poached from Judo and the like.
As for it being the dominant discipline in MMA I think the throws and many of the chokes are very dependant on the Gi (I have no idea how to spell it - but you know what I'm talking about - the robe thingie).
No doubt that an individual that could incorporate those throws that land you in a dominant position and likely transition directly into a submission would be valuable - the only problem is your opponent's ability to knee, kick, or punch you in the face while you're moving in to secure them.
As for Judo as a whole - Thanks again for that video. I had never been exposed to Judo in it's pure form and I was extremely impressed with it's explosiveness and excitement.
.............Flying Armbar...............Awesome :o
Boxing relies pretty heavily on the gloves for defense. BJJ relies on gis for their chokes and holds and whatnot. Most moves can and have been adapted for gi-less matches. Boxers have learned to block without just taking the punches on the gloves. Martial arts seem to adapt very quickly to MMA. Just watch any Karo Parysian (sp?) fight. He's dropped so many people on their heads its rediculous.
if karo had just a bit more conditioning i think he would have owned d sanchez. he won me as a fan in that fight.
munky, i'll go back and have a look. maybe the examples Ive seen weren't clean points or something like that. thanks for the reply though. 8)
Some of this stuff is just f*cking beautiful. Parysian's judo is awesome.
Worth another watch.
[youtube=425,350]IANF79VLd1k[/youtube]
Munky, look for one of him and diego sanchez. some of the throws he used on him were even better. In that video 1:06 is a good example of a throw that got his man down but didn't seem to land him in a very good spot. Thoughts?
Also, had you heard of him in the judo world before he was a UFC fighter?
From what I saw, I'm guessing the response would be:
Not every throw is going to work perfectly. But note that Karo still came away with his opponent's arm isolated, which is still a pretty good position, even if it wasnt the (I assume) armbar position you were going for.
This guy right here is considered by most to be the most dominant judoka in the MMA game right now. His name his Yoshihiro Akiyama. I believe he's a Korean world class judoka. He is (obviously) an extremely talented submission/grappling expert. But he can also bang with the best of em, and has the heart to beat them. He just came off an (apparently very controversial) win over Sakuraba (Saku complained he was oiled up or something....dunno).
[youtube=425,350]Z4hIg-LMvZg[/youtube]
Also, his fight with Manhoef (black dude in the kilt-ish thing) is worth watching. Definately an amazing match, and a true testament to Akiyama's fighting spirit. If you guys are too lazy, lemme know and I'll imbed it for ya :P
that's very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy D
good vid... BAD music! lol.
Haha...i love that music....something wacky about it that just strikes me right.