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Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
WTF there is proof that Corrales or Castillo wouldn't have held their own against Leonard, Duran, Hearns... I hate how people are like look how well JLC did against Mayweather, this must mean he would get destroyed if he fought Duran because he is so much better than Castillo... well he's not. I think Duran is a better fighter, but not by much, and that Castillo is in his league. Also Corrales who has is faster than DUran and hits at least as hard as him at lightweight and has warriors heart... YOu tell me one time that Duran or Leonard fought a fight as brutal as Castillo-Corrales 1 or where they have demonstrated better skills on the inside.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
Evolution is on the side of today's fighters. Stick every fighter from today against every fighter from 1986, 2006 is probably going to win out because of evolution. Just the way it is. The sport grows.
However, there is no doubt that Duran and Leonard were greater fighters with greater record bodies then Corrales and Castillo. At least not in my mind.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
This evolution bullsh*t is stupidity at its finest. Especially when applied to boxing. ESPECIALLY.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
I think they were greater fighters no doubt, but not to extend that they would have easy fights against Castillo or Corrales, and not to the extent they would beat them every fight.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
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Originally Posted by Gyrokai
This evolution bullsh*t is stupidity at its finest. Especially when applied to boxing. ESPECIALLY.
Oh really? So you think Marciano would beat Tyson? Or that Robinson would beat Roy JOnes Jr.? A good example is the 90's heavyweights compared to "golden age" the early 90's heavyweights would have cleaned their clocks, and if there was such good recruiting groups for children with athletic talent in football, and basketball then guys like Ray Lewis would be the best heavyweight ever... THere isn't just evolution in boxing in skill, but at the lower weight categories its also athletically superior to what it has ever been.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
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Originally Posted by Gyrokai
This evolution bullsh*t is stupidity at its finest. Especially when applied to boxing. ESPECIALLY.
Why though? I used to be of the same thought and I think that there are a bunch of exceptions to the rule (Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler ect.) but the sport evolves. Now I don't know much about boxing training but surely fighters get better with time right? I mean look at the gap between the fighters from the 40's to the 60's. I love Willie Pep. I mean I LOVE Willie Pep. 3rd greatest pound for pound fighter of all time in my book, but if he were fighting Sugar Ramos...would he have stood a chance? No. How would Ramos fair against Arguello? Probably not very good. I mean the sport evolves and what reason is there to beleive it stops? Now maybe it is slowing down (I think it's clear that the elite fighters from the 80's aren't to far behind the elite fighters of today's age) but has it completely stopped? Don't think so.
There has to be better training nowadays, and in the last 20 years or so we've seen boxing progress from something that was still sort of a tooth and nail blood sport to be much more technical and even more of a science, especially from welterweight up.
Like I said, there isn't as much of a gap between the elite fighters, but the sport has advanced nonetheless. I'm not a total suscriber to the evolution theory but I do think it still applies a little bit.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
The reason the sport has evolved is the reason Football or any sport evolves... people just get better, and they learn from the generation before them... That is way you saw Roy JOnes Jr. and FLoyd mayweather Jr. do things that had never been done in the ring, or Tyson for that matter... Defensive techniques, feints, and the like are always evolving as boxing becomes more of a sport, and less of a form of battle.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
Yeah! Being more scientific and logical.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
Castillo and Corrales made a good fight when they fought, but to say they are in the Hearns /Duran /Leonard /Hagler category is ridiculous. They have not beaten and have not had title winning wins or efforts like those guys did. Just because they had a great fight does not put them in the class with the legends. In their own divisions they are not the cream of the crops.. That says it all. You cannot make guys great just because of one fight. Corrales has a weak chin and does not seem to hold up and win all his fights, and Castillo is limited.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
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Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Castillo and Corrales made a good fight when they fought, but to say they are in the Hearns /Duran /Leonard /Hagler category is ridiculous. They have not beaten and have not had title winning wins or efforts like those guys did. Just because they had a great fight does not put them in the class with the legends. In their own divisions they are not the cream of the crops.. That says it all. You cannot make guys great just because of one fight. Corrales has a weak chin and does not seem to hold up and win all his fights, and Castillo is limited.
Perfect post bro,totally agree,took the words out of my mouth. I LOVE Chico and Castillo but they are just not in the league of the legends,and would get crushed by them. The sport has evolved but legends like Duran,Leonard,Hagler, Hearns would fit in anywhere simply because they are soo dam good!
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Originally Posted by amat
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Originally Posted by Gyrokai
This evolution bullsh*t is stupidity at its finest. Especially when applied to boxing. ESPECIALLY.
Why though? I used to be of the same thought and I think that there are a bunch of exceptions to the rule (Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler ect.) but the sport evolves. Now I don't know much about boxing training but surely fighters get better with time right? I mean look at the gap between the fighters from the 40's to the 60's. I love Willie Pep. I mean I LOVE Willie Pep. 3rd greatest pound for pound fighter of all time in my book, but if he were fighting Sugar Ramos...would he have stood a chance? No. How would Ramos fair against Arguello? Probably not very good. I mean the sport evolves and what reason is there to beleive it stops? Now maybe it is slowing down (I think it's clear that the elite fighters from the 80's aren't to far behind the elite fighters of today's age) but has it completely stopped? Don't think so.
There has to be better training nowadays, and in the last 20 years or so we've seen boxing progress from something that was still sort of a tooth and nail blood sport to be much more technical and even more of a science, especially from welterweight up.
Like I said, there isn't as much of a gap between the elite fighters, but the sport has advanced nonetheless. I'm not a total suscriber to the evolution theory but I do think it still applies a little bit.
True the evolution theory does apply in instances but I think we are mainly talking about Hagler Hearns Leonard and Duran and those guys could do it all,15 rounds warring,box,brawl EVERYTHING so I believe that they could have fit into most generations!PBF has never never faced anyone like a Duran and Duran in my and most opinions would destroy JLC and Chico!!!!!
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
Duran is easily the greatest lightweight of all time, and is head and shoulders above JLC/Chico. He had that "Jungle Intensity..."
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
I’m not sure if your referring to me, but what I said was look at Castillo v Mayweather, if Castillo could do that to Mayweather then Duran would murder Mayweather.
And yes 100 % Castillo and Corrales would also lose to Duran, some people only look at Duran’s aggression and offensive approach, but consider this, throughout his whole career Duran barley got a mark on his face, he was also a defensive master, probably the best in the business to slip a punch.
I have nothing against Corrales, Castillo or Mayweather, but none of these would stand a chance with Duran, Leonard or Hagler. What concerns me is when someone say’s Castillo hits as hard as Duran, I then think I’m either talking with someone who is biased towards a particular fighter or someone who doesn’t know there boxing as well as they think.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
Reality cc. Could someone tell me what evolution means
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
It's really simple, the style of fighters that JLC and Corrales are make for easy work for Duran who brawled toe to toe with Hagler, Leonard who was too quick for either of them...you think Mayweather Jr. beat them badly that would pale in comparison to what Ray would do because he had legit power at 147, Hearns....well to say that either of them would survive Tommy is just idiotic.
Julio Cesar Chavez would also whip both of them
I think this whole evolution bullcrap is just that.....bullcrap. We're not talking about if they fought RIGHT NOW but prime for prime the weight classes haven't changed too much, the training and being able to drop more weight has but I think even considering how much weight Chico and JLC drop for fights they don't have the stamina the old guys had....15 rounds that's what I'm talking about right there.
No one is saying that AVERAGE fighters from the 80's would beat these guys...although with style matchups I'm sure you could find one ESPECIALLY for Chico (who doesn't like slick southpaws).
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
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Originally Posted by Scrap
Reality cc. Could someone tell me what evolution means
best hope bilbo don't see this
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
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Originally Posted by Taeth
WTF there is proof that Corrales or Castillo wouldn't have held their own against Leonard, Duran, Hearns... I hate how people are like look how well JLC did against Mayweather, this must mean he would get destroyed if he fought Duran because he is so much better than Castillo... well he's not. I think Duran is a better fighter, but not by much, and that Castillo is in his league. Also Corrales who has is faster than DUran and hits at least as hard as him at lightweight and has warriors heart... YOu tell me one time that Duran or Leonard fought a fight as brutal as Castillo-Corrales 1 or where they have demonstrated better skills on the inside.
To answer the question in the subject heading:
Besides Duran how about:
Aaron Pryor
Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
Duran/Hearns/Leonard all destory Chico and Castillo.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
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Originally Posted by Taeth
WTF there is proof that Corrales or Castillo wouldn't have held their own against Leonard, Duran, Hearns... I hate how people are like look how well JLC did against Mayweather, this must mean he would get destroyed if he fought Duran because he is so much better than Castillo... well he's not. I think Duran is a better fighter, but not by much, and that Castillo is in his league. Also Corrales who has is faster than DUran and hits at least as hard as him at lightweight and has warriors heart... YOu tell me one time that Duran or Leonard fought a fight as brutal as Castillo-Corrales 1 or where they have demonstrated better skills on the inside.
chico doesnt have best chin i know tommy didnt either but tommy brutally kos chico and leonard
and duran would both ko chico remember chico vs mayweather ?? thats what ray leonard would do to him and as for castillo leonard would stop castillo on cuts he cuts too easily duran would do the same and hearns would probably brutally ko castillo like he did to duran
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
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Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by Scrap
Reality cc. Could someone tell me what evolution means
best hope bilbo don't see this
Hahahah ... yeah I totally agree. cc
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
Fenster, classic, hope he doesnt cc
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
How you guys say they don't stand a chance? Do you know for a fact that Castillo doesn't hit as hard as Duran? Or Corrales hits as hard as Hearns? Do you have evendential proof? These guys are as big as DUran or Hearns, but they have better weight lifting methods today, and they have tremendous power. Castillo IMO could take many of Duran's punches before he would be ko'ed, and I don't think that Duran is all that much better... Castillo proved he is better against a mover vs. Floyd than Duran was against Leonard.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
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Originally Posted by Taeth
How you guys say they don't stand a chance? Do you know for a fact that Castillo doesn't hit as hard as Duran? Or Corrales hits as hard as Hearns? Do you have evendential proof? These guys are as big as DUran or Hearns, but they have better weight lifting methods today, and they have tremendous power. Castillo IMO could take many of Duran's punches before he would be ko'ed, and I don't think that Duran is all that much better... Castillo proved he is better against a mover vs. Floyd than Duran was against Leonard.
Did you have evidential proof that Floyd is faster then Ray?Or that he is better on the inside than Ray? Nope but judging from what we have seenand I'm guessing most guys have seen ALOT of Duran and Heanrs etc and ALL the top fighters they took on,they can make these assumptions quite confidently. In what way is Corrales better than Hearns? None whatsoever and hey,go and watch Chico v Cas one I think it is,Corrales in a pre fight interview said he was like a mini Hearns but no where near as good. and Castillo himself would admit he is nowhere near as good as Duran! Weight lifting methods? Dude,thats a weak point!!! How do we even know Corrales,Castillo etc do weights for a FACT?
Facts are facts,Duran,Heanrs etc fought a higher level of opposition than JLC Chico ever have and ever will,they moved up more weight classes and for crying out loud,just look at their records dude!
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Originally Posted by Lyle
It's really simple, the style of fighters that JLC and Corrales are make for easy work for Duran who brawled toe to toe with Hagler, Leonard who was too quick for either of them...you think Mayweather Jr. beat them badly that would pale in comparison to what Ray would do because he had legit power at 147, Hearns....well to say that either of them would survive Tommy is just idiotic.
Julio Cesar Chavez would also whip both of them
I think this whole evolution bullcrap is just that.....bullcrap. We're not talking about if they fought RIGHT NOW but prime for prime the weight classes haven't changed too much, the training and being able to drop more weight has but I think even considering how much weight Chico and JLC drop for fights they don't have the stamina the old guys had....15 rounds that's what I'm talking about right there.
No one is saying that AVERAGE fighters from the 80's would beat these guys...although with style matchups I'm sure you could find one ESPECIALLY for Chico (who doesn't like slick southpaws).
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Originally Posted by Realitycheck77
I’m not sure if your referring to me, but what I said was look at Castillo v Mayweather, if Castillo could do that to Mayweather then Duran would murder Mayweather.
And yes 100 % Castillo and Corrales would also lose to Duran, some people only look at Duran’s aggression and offensive approach, but consider this, throughout his whole career Duran barley got a mark on his face, he was also a defensive master, probably the best in the business to slip a punch.
I have nothing against Corrales, Castillo or Mayweather, but none of these would stand a chance with Duran, Leonard or Hagler. What concerns me is when someone say’s Castillo hits as hard as Duran, I then think I’m either talking with someone who is biased towards a particular fighter or someone who doesn’t know there boxing as well as they think.
Excellent posts.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
How you guys say they don't stand a chance? Do you know for a fact that Castillo doesn't hit as hard as Duran? Or Corrales hits as hard as Hearns? Do you have evendential proof? These guys are as big as DUran or Hearns, but they have better weight lifting methods today, and they have tremendous power. Castillo IMO could take many of Duran's punches before he would be ko'ed, and I don't think that Duran is all that much better... Castillo proved he is better against a mover vs. Floyd than Duran was against Leonard.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Taeth
How you guys say they don't stand a chance? Do you know for a fact that Castillo doesn't hit as hard as Duran? Or Corrales hits as hard as Hearns? Do you have evendential proof? These guys are as big as DUran or Hearns, but they have better weight lifting methods today, and they have tremendous power. Castillo IMO could take many of Duran's punches before he would be ko'ed, and I don't think that Duran is all that much better... Castillo proved he is better against a mover vs. Floyd than Duran was against Leonard.
Did you have evidential proof that Floyd is faster then Ray?Or that he is better on the inside than Ray? Nope but judging from what we have seenand I'm guessing most guys have seen ALOT of Duran and Heanrs etc and ALL the top fighters they took on,they can make these assumptions quite confidently. In what way is Corrales better than Hearns? None whatsoever and hey,go and watch Chico v Cas one I think it is,Corrales in a pre fight interview said he was like a mini Hearns but no where near as good. and Castillo himself would admit he is nowhere near as good as Duran! Weight lifting methods? Dude,thats a weak point!!! How do we even know Corrales,Castillo etc do weights for a FACT?
Facts are facts,Duran,Heanrs etc fought a higher level of opposition than JLC Chico ever have and ever will,they moved up more weight classes and for crying out loud,just look at their records dude!
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Originally Posted by Lyle
It's really simple, the style of fighters that JLC and Corrales are make for easy work for Duran who brawled toe to toe with Hagler, Leonard who was too quick for either of them...you think Mayweather Jr. beat them badly that would pale in comparison to what Ray would do because he had legit power at 147, Hearns....well to say that either of them would survive Tommy is just idiotic.
Julio Cesar Chavez would also whip both of them
I think this whole evolution bullcrap is just that.....bullcrap. We're not talking about if they fought RIGHT NOW but prime for prime the weight classes haven't changed too much, the training and being able to drop more weight has but I think even considering how much weight Chico and JLC drop for fights they don't have the stamina the old guys had....15 rounds that's what I'm talking about right there.
No one is saying that AVERAGE fighters from the 80's would beat these guys...although with style matchups I'm sure you could find one ESPECIALLY for Chico (who doesn't like slick southpaws).
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Originally Posted by Realitycheck77
I’m not sure if your referring to me, but what I said was look at Castillo v Mayweather, if Castillo could do that to Mayweather then Duran would murder Mayweather.
And yes 100 % Castillo and Corrales would also lose to Duran, some people only look at Duran’s aggression and offensive approach, but consider this, throughout his whole career Duran barley got a mark on his face, he was also a defensive master, probably the best in the business to slip a punch.
I have nothing against Corrales, Castillo or Mayweather, but none of these would stand a chance with Duran, Leonard or Hagler. What concerns me is when someone say’s Castillo hits as hard as Duran, I then think I’m either talking with someone who is biased towards a particular fighter or someone who doesn’t know there boxing as well as they think.
Excellent posts.
Now thats crap the average 80's fighter wouldn't stand a chance against Chico or Castillo... thats pure BS. And Floyd is faster than Leonard and my proof that I've watched their fights at 1/13 normal speed and I've timed how long it takes of their punches to fully extend.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
Castillo could be a great fighter in any era. I don't have any doubt about that, he's a great fighter. But I don't think he was as good as Duran. Duran was just a little bit better overall. Its easy to forget how good he was, at his best like Castillo at 135 and he gave Hagler a tough fight at 160, and beat Barkley at 160. That's freaking ridiculous, as much as I like Castillo, and he's in my top five-ten favorite fighters, I don't see him being able to do anything quite like that.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Castillo could be a great fighter in any era. I don't have any doubt about that, he's a great fighter. But I don't think he was as good as Duran. Duran was just a little bit better overall. Its easy to forget how good he was, at his best like Castillo at 135 and he gave Hagler a tough fight at 160, and beat Barkley at 160. That's freaking ridiculous, as much as I like Castillo, and he's in my top five-ten favorite fighters, I don't see him being able to do anything quite like that.
This is all I am saying, he's not as good as Duran, but he would hang in there.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
I think to say that fighters r better 2day than 10 30 or even 60 years ago r ne better or worse than the fighters of today is bit naive but i do feel that boxers r trained better today because of the improving knowledge of how the body works nd the facilities available to them but wot the previous boxers lacked in knowledge nd facilities was made up by thier hunger nd drive to survive in poorer times and the amount of fights they had in a year compared to the champions of today proves that. Nd i feel bcos of castillos chin he would of been able to last with them but corrales i do feel would be exposed by them.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's
I think Corralles has poor enough defence and slow enough feet that he probably couldn't beat Duran, Leonard, Hagler or Hearns. I have not followed enough of Castillo's fights to really judge, but from what I've seen he gets outboxed by the people above.
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Now thats crap the average 80's fighter wouldn't stand a chance against Chico or Castillo... thats pure BS. And Floyd is faster than Leonard and my proof that I've watched their fights at 1/13 normal speed and I've timed how long it takes of their punches to fully extend.
Chico lost like what 2 times to Joel Casamayor....is he GREAT? No he's just a slick southpaw....he's no world beater.
Castillo on the other hand has been TKO'd NUMEROUS times and not many of those were to GREAT boxers.
So by using THAT RATIONAL great fighters would just walk over these fools.
As for Floyd being faster than Ray...well whoopty damn doo he's done a lot with that hasn't he! Floyd's beaten all kinds of greats and even guys he wasn't supposed to beat and outside his natural weight class too.....awww shux no he hasn't
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Re: Why do people consider Castillo and Corrales push overs comapred to the 80's?
The only reason we even compare Corrales and Castillo to Hearns and Hagler are that Hearns and Hagler had a great fight and so did Corrales and Castillo. But added to the great fight Hearns and Hagler had, Hearns and Hagler have hall of fame credentials and wins.. Hearns fought Cuevez, Benitez,Duran,Leonard,Hagler, Hill, Barkley. Hagler fought Hearns,Duran,Leonard,Antuofermo,Mugabi. Corrales and Castillo lost to guys who were not the caliber of Hearns and Hagler and Duran and Leonard. There is no comparison. The resumes say it all. What Corrales and Castillo have is a great fight.. That is good. most guys do not have that.
