** Edison Miranda , could he be the real deal?**

Power to spare, strong and a 76 1/2" reach..add a little of defence and you might have a possible champion on the making...3 years younger than JT....this would be a great fight...and one that for sure wouldn't;t go the distance...I like Edison chances on this one....

Personally i think JT is very underated. People take FAR too much into his last fight, ok he wasnt great but he won did'nt he? Not to mention he beat Bernard Hopkins and drew with Wright recently, its becuase he hasnt looked great in these fights that people question him, i mean who the hell does look good against them sort of fighters. Remember before his last 3 he was destroying opponents. Jermain Taylor UD's Miranda IMO.

I am wasn't saying he is the real thing, it was a questions...but since you want to go there...JT fought 36 rounds with the cream of the 160 division and eventhou he didn't no overwhelmed his opponent he stood competitive against them and probably won enough rounds to become victorious...that's not what I want to discuss here...the fat that Kasim Ouma to him to the limit with obvious size disadvantage doesn't;t not speak to well of JT...I like JT... but he has far more flaws that assest at this point on his career...and even though he makes up with pure determination...Miranda is as strong if not stronger than JT, is hungry, hits like Cruiser and has almost 80" reach....dude that's some stuff that any opponent will have to deal with in order to win....I am not ready to crown him as of yet...since he does has defensive deficiencies..but he is getting close by training in PR with Jose Bonilla in PR....

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Originally Posted by Orishaman

I am wasn't saying he is the real thing, it was a questions...but since you want to go there...JT fought 36 rounds with the cream of the 160 division and eventhou he didn't no overwhelmed his opponent he stood competitive against them and probably won enough rounds to become victorious...that's not what I want to discuss here...the fat that Kasim Ouma to him to the limit with obvious size disadvantage doesn't;t not speak to well of JT...I like JT... but he has far more flaws that assest at this point on his career...and even though he makes up with pure determination...Miranda is as strong if not stronger than JT, is hungry, hits like Cruiser and has almost 80" reach....dude that's some stuff that any opponent will have to deal with in order to win....I am not ready to crown him as of yet...since he does has defensive deficiencies..but he is getting close by training in PR with Jose Bonilla in PR....

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Well good come back right there buddy. :coolclick: and welcome online! Always good to welcome KNOWLEDGEABLE boxing fans to the site (thats right goldenboy321 or whatever your name is!).

Thanks...man I need to improve my english..... ;D

Edison has the tools,he just needs to tidy up and use them and although I think alot of people,myself included,jumped on the Miranda bandwagon and believe in him,he still has capacity to make alot of improvements. I understand where you are coming from Cockney, but the flaws from teh Ouma fight,are flaws which JT has shown all the way through(backing up too much,gassing,poor ring generalship etc) and these weaknesses were not taken advantage of by the smaller Winky or the inactive Hopkins. Miranda,with that awesome power could make him pay! Styles make fights and in this one,JT could not use his brute force to get him out of trouble. I'd still make JT favourite but it would be a very good fight!

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Edison has the tools,he just needs to tidy up and use them and although I think alot of people,myself included,jumped on the Miranda bandwagon and believe in him,he still has capacity to make alot of improvements. I understand where you are coming from Cockney, but the flaws from teh Ouma fight,are flaws which JT has shown all the way through(backing up too much,gassing,poor ring generalship etc) and these weaknesses were not taken advantage of by the smaller Winky or the inactive Hopkins. Miranda,with that awesome power could make him pay! Styles make fights and in this one,JT could not use his brute force to get him out of trouble. I'd still make JT favourite but it would be a very good fight!

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Just second Gamo...let's not take the title from JT so fast...he earned the title inside the ropes and retained after 24 tough rounds against BHop, which many tough his tank was getting empty and maybe the reason JT won and he proof us wrong after the dominance over Tarver, JT has flaws and so does Miranda, Miranda is younger, JT is the champ...and we just have to wait and see what is going to happen here....Honestly this will be a hell of fight whenever it happened...

Many underestimate JT's drive inside the ring....sure he backs up, and his has stamina issues, yet he keep winning....so let's see what is going to happen in the next 6 months...

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Originally Posted by Orishaman

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Edison has the tools,he just needs to tidy up and use them and although I think alot of people,myself included,jumped on the Miranda bandwagon and believe in him,he still has capacity to make alot of improvements. I understand where you are coming from Cockney, but the flaws from teh Ouma fight,are flaws which JT has shown all the way through(backing up too much,gassing,poor ring generalship etc) and these weaknesses were not taken advantage of by the smaller Winky or the inactive Hopkins. Miranda,with that awesome power could make him pay! Styles make fights and in this one,JT could not use his brute force to get him out of trouble. I'd still make JT favourite but it would be a very good fight!

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Just second Gamo...let's not take the title from JT so fast...he earned the title inside the ropes and retained after 24 tough rounds against BHop, which many tough his tank was getting empty and maybe the reason JT won and he proof us wrong after the dominance over Tarver, JT has flaws and so does Miranda, Miranda is younger, JT is the champ...and we just have to wait and see what is going to happen here....Honestly this will be a hell of fight whenever it happened...

Many underestimate JT's drive inside the ring....sure he backs up, and his has stamina issues, yet he keep winning....so let's see what is going to happen in the next 6 months...

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Let's not get over excited dude,I DID say JT would be favourite and I was not taking the title away from anyone,merely stating the variables at play. JT has desire but judging by Edison's past traumatic experiences etc,I'd say he has alot of desire and motivation too,the guy is a survivor!

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Originally Posted by Orishaman

Thanks...man I need to improve my english..... ;D

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Don't worry about your english, you got your point across very well. As far as Miranda, I believe he's the real deal.

Edison's the real deal. I was shocked to hear Dibella compare him to Mayorga. Edison actually has decent skill. He KO'ed Eastman (something B-Hop and Abraham couldn't do) and he knocked out a decent middleweight in the first round with basically one punch. I don't care what Dibella says, Miranda is for real. I like JT and I give him credit for the big fights he has been in and demanded from the start, but in his last four fights he's fought an old man (B-Hop), a guy he had a significant physical advantage over (Winky), and a blown up welterweight (Ouma). IMO, if JT ever steps in the ring with Miranda without fixing his flaws that he's had forever now, he's getting knocked out. JT backs up, loses his focus, and makes costly mistakes way too much, it's obvious that he's not as powerful as he thought at 160.

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Originally Posted by Orishaman

Power to spare, strong and a 76 1/2" reach..add a little of defence and you might have a possible champion on the making...3 years younger than JT....this would be a great fight...and one that for sure wouldn't;t go the distance...I like Edison chances on this one....

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:coolclick:

I like the topic!!
I have been saying for a long time Miranda is the real deal. He is finally starting to get the attention I feel he deserves. He has come a long way in the past 2 years fighting under Warriors. I feel he is ready for JT, but it couldn't hurt getting more experience under his belt with a few more fights.
Like he has said, God has always looked after him and whatever cards come his way, he is just happy to do what he does best and the only thing he has ever known to bring him happiness. As tough as he talks, he is always respectful and full of smiles when the time is right. Even after he felt he was royally screwed in Germany he had a big smile on his face, and held up Abraham's hand to show him the respect he deserved for fighting a hell of a fight.

Here is a pic of Miranda shortly after the decision was announced in Germany. All smiles!!

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n.../Miranda21.jpg

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Personally i think JT is very underated. People take FAR too much into his last fight, ok he wasnt great but he won did'nt he? Not to mention he beat Bernard Hopkins and drew with Wright recently, its becuase he hasnt looked great in these fights that people question him, i mean who the hell does look good against them sort of fighters.

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Yeah that excuse worked afainst Hopkinsand Wright, whats the excuse for Ouma?

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Personally i think JT is very underated. People take FAR too much into his last fight, ok he wasnt great but he won did'nt he? Not to mention he beat Bernard Hopkins and drew with Wright recently, its becuase he hasnt looked great in these fights that people question him, i mean who the hell does look good against them sort of fighters.

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Yeah that excuse worked afainst Hopkinsand Wright, whats the excuse for Ouma?

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He won. He was clearly the better fighter. Ouma is a very tough fighter also regardless of his size.

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Personally i think JT is very underated. People take FAR too much into his last fight, ok he wasnt great but he won did'nt he? Not to mention he beat Bernard Hopkins and drew with Wright recently, its becuase he hasnt looked great in these fights that people question him, i mean who the hell does look good against them sort of fighters.

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Yeah that excuse worked afainst Hopkinsand Wright, whats the excuse for Ouma?

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He won. He was clearly the better fighter. Ouma is a very tough fighter also regardless of his size.

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Yeah but couldn't he have easily kept Ouma off with his jab as Ouma stepped in ???

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Personally i think JT is very underated. People take FAR too much into his last fight, ok he wasnt great but he won did'nt he? Not to mention he beat Bernard Hopkins and drew with Wright recently, its becuase he hasnt looked great in these fights that people question him, i mean who the hell does look good against them sort of fighters. Remember before his last 3 he was destroying opponents. Jermain Taylor UD's Miranda IMO.

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Being a previous fan of Taylor's, I personally think that he's way to overratted.

Taylor looked amazing against lesser opposition. He smoked every old work horse that he fought, every sparring partner, & every 147-154lber on the move up tasted the mat after a handful of rounds. That's a fantastic thing...but when you have the newly dubbed Undisputed Middleweight Champions of the World being bullied by smaller men, losing the ability to knockout fighters, & verbalizing the fact that he's disappointed in himself & shouldv'e done better this & I give myself a B- or C+...well...it's time to break on the questions.

Taylor lost the first Hopkins fight...won the second & lost the draw against Wright. He looked terrible agianst Ouma & fantastic against everyone prior to the Hopkins fight.

The question is...WTF has happened?

Simple. Once you step up to the next level...you either are the real deal...or you are not...you are also an accident waiting to happen. So to say that he was destroying fighters prior to Hopkins & Wright is a loaded statement...basically...that just means that he can look good agianst a lower grade of opponents.

problem is HBO tried to hype him as the real deal when he isn't. And he gets by on just natural talent and grit nowadays but I'd rather see him get by on skills and taking advantage of what he has rather then having to dig into it.

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

problem is HBO tried to hype him as the real deal when he isn't. And he gets by on just natural talent and grit nowadays but I'd rather see him get by on skills and taking advantage of what he has rather then having to dig into it.

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Agreed.

My main thought on Taylor is that he's HBO's new honey pot that seems to have a hole in the bottom of it.

HBO is going to start backing off of him pretty soon...wait & see. I'd be surprised if they don't.

See...I aint so sure that Taylors go that much natural abilities...but more so...he's marketable, he's got a hell of a personality, & he's on the atheletic side. My main issue with him is that he has been handed some crucial decisions & that is something that I do not like. He did not win the first fight against Hopkins. Hopkins outlanded him down the stretch...but he ended up with the decision.

Then comes Wright...Wright beat him...& there comes the other main issue I have...once his power fails him...it's time to break out the ironing board & iron...Taylor get's pressed like a pair of trousers. Even Ouma was able to capitalize on that weakness.

Taylor is one of these fighters that let's the work get to him...he starts mentally breaking down & it's written all over his face.

Had he

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

problem is HBO tried to hype him as the real deal when he isn't. And he gets by on just natural talent and grit nowadays but I'd rather see him get by on skills and taking advantage of what he has rather then having to dig into it.

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Agreed.

My main thought on Taylor is that he's HBO's new honey pot that seems to have a hole in the bottom of it.

HBO is going to start backing off of him pretty soon...wait & see. I'd be surprised if they don't.

See...I aint so sure that Taylors go that much natural abilities...but more so...he's marketable, he's got a hell of a personality, & he's on the atheletic side. My main issue with him is that he has been handed some crucial decisions & that is something that I do not like. He did not win the first fight against Hopkins. Hopkins outlanded him down the stretch...but he ended up with the decision.

Then comes Wright...Wright beat him...& there comes the other main issue I have...once his power fails him...it's time to break out the ironing board & iron...Taylor get's pressed like a pair of trousers. Even Ouma was able to capitalize on that weakness.

Taylor is one of these fighters that let's the work get to him...he starts mentally breaking down & it's written all over his face.

Had he

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As long as you can take his shots he looks bad. Thats not good. It means that he got by, by his power and ability to stop someone, but his flaws weren't seen when he was hurting people and stopping them or they were backing off of him.

I think if he was 25-3 he would be more appealing

But they hope people see the 0 on his record and that it will be good.

One day he will brutally KO someone and they will hype him up again for the moment and make us think he beat Superman.

Like they did with Oscar when he beat Mayorga as if he'd just knocked out King kong

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

problem is HBO tried to hype him as the real deal when he isn't. And he gets by on just natural talent and grit nowadays but I'd rather see him get by on skills and taking advantage of what he has rather then having to dig into it.

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Agreed.

My main thought on Taylor is that he's HBO's new honey pot that seems to have a hole in the bottom of it.

HBO is going to start backing off of him pretty soon...wait & see. I'd be surprised if they don't.

See...I aint so sure that Taylors go that much natural abilities...but more so...he's marketable, he's got a hell of a personality, & he's on the atheletic side. My main issue with him is that he has been handed some crucial decisions & that is something that I do not like. He did not win the first fight against Hopkins. Hopkins outlanded him down the stretch...but he ended up with the decision.

Then comes Wright...Wright beat him...& there comes the other main issue I have...once his power fails him...it's time to break out the ironing board & iron...Taylor get's pressed like a pair of trousers. Even Ouma was able to capitalize on that weakness.

Taylor is one of these fighters that let's the work get to him...he starts mentally breaking down & it's written all over his face.

Had he

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As long as you can take his shots he looks bad. Thats not good. It means that he got by, by his power and ability to stop someone, but his flaws weren't seen when he was hurting people and stopping them or they were backing off of him.

I think if he was 25-3 he would be more appealing

But they hope people see the 0 on his record and that it will be good.

One day he will brutally KO someone and they will hype him up again for the moment and make us think he beat Superman.

Like they did with Oscar when he beat Mayorga as if he'd just knocked out King kong

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Okay...I'll bite...who do you think it'll be? How do you see his career running right now?

Personally...I think that he'll run undefeated until he runs into Wright. Could be wrong...but as frustrated & confused as he became with an injured Abraham...I think that Wright will drive him nutty as a gotdam fruit cake.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

problem is HBO tried to hype him as the real deal when he isn't. And he gets by on just natural talent and grit nowadays but I'd rather see him get by on skills and taking advantage of what he has rather then having to dig into it.

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Agreed.

My main thought on Taylor is that he's HBO's new honey pot that seems to have a hole in the bottom of it.

HBO is going to start backing off of him pretty soon...wait & see. I'd be surprised if they don't.

See...I aint so sure that Taylors go that much natural abilities...but more so...he's marketable, he's got a hell of a personality, & he's on the atheletic side. My main issue with him is that he has been handed some crucial decisions & that is something that I do not like. He did not win the first fight against Hopkins. Hopkins outlanded him down the stretch...but he ended up with the decision.

Then comes Wright...Wright beat him...& there comes the other main issue I have...once his power fails him...it's time to break out the ironing board & iron...Taylor get's pressed like a pair of trousers. Even Ouma was able to capitalize on that weakness.

Taylor is one of these fighters that let's the work get to him...he starts mentally breaking down & it's written all over his face.

Had he

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As long as you can take his shots he looks bad. Thats not good. It means that he got by, by his power and ability to stop someone, but his flaws weren't seen when he was hurting people and stopping them or they were backing off of him.

I think if he was 25-3 he would be more appealing

But they hope people see the 0 on his record and that it will be good.

One day he will brutally KO someone and they will hype him up again for the moment and make us think he beat Superman.

Like they did with Oscar when he beat Mayorga as if he'd just knocked out King kong

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Okay...I'll bite...who do you think it'll be? How do you see his career running right now?

Personally...I think that he'll run undefeated until he runs into Wright. Could be wrong...but as frustrated & confused as he became with an injured Abraham...I think that Wright will drive him nutty as a gotdam fruit cake.

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I think he's got another two years. He actually has a good run at being undefeated for a while. Wright is on his way out and I don't see Dibella putting Winky in there until Winky looks ordinary eventually.

Taylor will probably fight someone and opponents like Mora, or even Pavlik and Sturm or even Vargas before his "move up to super middleweight" and by that time Calzaghe would have retired. And Taylor will fight someone like Lacy, Kessler will probably be at light heavyweight and Taylor will fight super middleweights who are also flawed like he is and those are the fights he will either win or lose.

But I think someone that has a chance of beating Taylor should he fight him is Artur Abraham.

But Dibella is a great marketer, I don't think we'll see Taylor lose his 0 soon. Dibella is gonna put a name on his record but not much danger and Taylor will make it hard on himself as usual.