Tyson's Lost 3 Years vs. Ali's Lost 3 Years

Both were 25 when they each had 3 prime years taken from them forever. In your opinion, which fighter could have benefited more if he was given those 3 years back?

Both.
Those 3 yrs. that they lost took IMO the best of them.
Quick note, Ali had his yrs. taken. Tyson was a fwocken moron and did shit! to have his yrs. taken.

There's a big difference.

Ali was just peaking when he was exiled from boxing. He was getting more and more dominant with each fight.
Tyson, on the other hand, was already on the downside when he was sent away. His skills were already eroding, his dedication to training was already non-existent.

Ali paid a far bigger price. If he continued fighting from '67-'70, he would've beaten everyone in his path. A young, mobile Ali doesn't lose to Frazier in the first fight.
Tyson would've lost fights during his 3 years. His inevitable downfall was simply delayed by three years because of the prison stint.

When Tyson went to jail he was past his best already Ali on the other hand was getting better fight by fight.


Stupid thread really.LOL

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Originally Posted by porkypara

When Tyson went to jail he was past his best already Ali on the other hand was getting better fight by fight.


Stupid thread really.LOL

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Stupid thread really?


Can I ask why? porkyparra...
I don't think it's stupid, cause if I'm honest I personally don't think Tyson was on a downfall by the time he wen't to jail. Sure he was changing but shit! we all change as time goes by. I actually think he would have continued to win.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

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Originally Posted by porkypara

When Tyson went to jail he was past his best already Ali on the other hand was getting better fight by fight.


Stupid thread really.LOL

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Stupid thread really?


Can I ask why? porkyparra...
I don't think it's stupid, cause if I'm honest I personally don't think Tyson was on a downfall by the time he wen't to jail. Sure he was changing but S***! we all change as time goes by. I actually think he would have continued to win.

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I REALLY don't like it when people dis someones post.
Best way to make people leave the site and never come back.
Wont be much fun sitting all alone in the dark on the computer talking to yourselves. We do enough of that surfin' porn!

Re the post. It's a hard question. I think the real difference is the nature of the 3 years. Ali's time was a personal protest, it strengthened his resolve and cemented his character. Maybe even helped him to be the fighter he was. Tyson was the opposite, Sent away for a crime,raping a 16 year old girl. HE spent 3 years looking in the mirror at who he was and paying a penalty for what he had done, thats what broke him,not the 3 years itself. (although i do feel for the guy, a real sad case and a waste of humanity and talent) His 3 years crippled him, mentally & emotionally and set the stage for the crumbling of Mike Tyson as a Person before he was crushed in the ring. The dribble tw@t gold digger b1tch he married didn't help him either! Maybe Tyson being out would have kept him busy and away from all those dark inner thoughts.

So I think Ali would have been great with or without the 3 years ie it had little effect, Tyson maybe,.. possibly could have kept his head screwed on and gone on to create his own Legacy of greatness. So i guess the possibility that it would have helped Tyson more If he hadn't done 3 years is greater

The person who REALLY destroyed Mike Tyson..a woman!
Note the before and after divorce settlement picks!


[Attachment Deleted by Administrator] *landmine check your messages :)

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Originally Posted by landmine950

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

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Originally Posted by porkypara

When Tyson went to jail he was past his best already Ali on the other hand was getting better fight by fight.


Stupid thread really.LOL

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Stupid thread really?


Can I ask why? porkyparra...
I don't think it's stupid, cause if I'm honest I personally don't think Tyson was on a downfall by the time he wen't to jail. Sure he was changing but S***! we all change as time goes by. I actually think he would have continued to win.

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I REALLY don't like it when people dis someones post.
Best way to make people leave the site and never come back.
Wont be much fun sitting all alone in the dark on the computer talking to yourselves. We do enough of that surfin' porn!

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cc#67 landmine couldn't agree with you more.
IMO there have been SOME stupid threads here but this one here don't fall in that category...

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Originally Posted by landmine950

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

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Originally Posted by porkypara

When Tyson went to jail he was past his best already Ali on the other hand was getting better fight by fight.


Stupid thread really.LOL

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Stupid thread really?


Can I ask why? porkyparra...
I don't think it's stupid, cause if I'm honest I personally don't think Tyson was on a downfall by the time he wen't to jail. Sure he was changing but S***! we all change as time goes by. I actually think he would have continued to win.

---

I REALLY don't like it when people dis someones post.
Best way to make people leave the site and never come back.
Wont be much fun sitting all alone in the dark on the computer talking to yourselves. We do enough of that surfin' porn!

Re the post. It's a hard question. I think the real difference is the nature of the 3 years. Ali's time was a personal protest, it strengthened his resolve and cemented his character. Maybe even helped him to be the fighter he was. Tyson was the opposite, Sent away for a crime,raping a 16 year old girl. HE spent 3 years looking in the mirror at who he was and paying a penalty for what he had done, thats what broke him,not the 3 years itself. (although i do feel for the guy, a real sad case and a waste of humanity and talent) His 3 years crippled him, mentally & emotionally and set the stage for the crumbling of Mike Tyson as a Person before he was crushed in the ring. The dribble tw@t gold digger b1tch he married didn't help him either! Maybe Tyson being out would have kept him busy and away from all those dark inner thoughts.

So I think Ali would have been great with or without the 3 years ie it had little effect, Tyson maybe,.. possibly could have kept his head screwed on and gone on to create his own Legacy of greatness. So i guess the possibility that it would have helped Tyson more If he hadn't done 3 years is greater

The person who REALLY destroyed Mike Tyson..a woman!
Note the before and after divorce settlement picks!


[Attachment Deleted by Administrator] *landmine check your messages :)

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what da fuk did tyson ever see in that ugly cow anyways, shes ugler than a hat full of arseholes.. ;D

...i hate that cunt robin givins >:mad

Tyson's career was clearly already on a downslope when he went away to prison. He may have won the several fights he had after the Douglas fight, but they were not impressive.
What made Tyson unbeatable during the late 80s was not his power, it was power in combination with great head movement, hand/footspeed, and the ability to throw a jab and throw tight combinations.
Yes, he was the hardest puncher in the division, but Kevin Rooney also taught the importance of technical precision.
During the couple years right before prison, Tyson stopped moving his head, stopped working his jab, stopped concentrating on fluid combinations,stopped training properly, etc. His technique was completely deconstructing to the point where he was doing nothing but trying to knock guys out with one punch, his defense and movement were being completely ignored.

He was a rudderless ship without D'Amato/Rooney and the effects were evident. All prison did was delay his inevitable downfall. If he never went to prison, he just would've gotten beaten up by a young Holyfield and young Lennox Lewis, instead of getting beaten up by an old Holyfeld and old Lewis after prison.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Tyson's career was clearly already on a downslope when he went away to prison. He may have won the several fights he had after the Douglas fight, but they were not impressive.
What made Tyson unbeatable during the late 80s was not his power, it was power in combination with great head movement, hand/footspeed, and the ability to throw a jab and throw tight combinations.
Yes, he was the hardest puncher in the division, but Kevin Rooney also taught the importance of technical precision.
During the couple years right before prison, Tyson stopped moving his head, stopped working his jab, stopped concentrating on fluid combinations,stopped training properly, etc. His technique was completely deconstructing to the point where he was doing nothing but trying to knock guys out with one punch, his defense and movement were being completely ignored.

He was a rudderless ship without D'Amato/Rooney and the effects were evident. All prison did was delay his inevitable downfall. If he never went to prison, he just would've gotten beaten up by a young Holyfield and young Lennox Lewis, instead of getting beaten up by an old Holyfeld and old Lewis after prison.

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i agree with every thing u said except for holy beating tyson 1992,tyson wasnt the same fighter he was in the80's but he was still fit to go hard for 12 rds,the only reason tyson lost to holy was cause he tired out,,,pre prison tyson was conventional but in good shape,he would have taken holy the distance and won a hard fought UD...IMO

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Originally Posted by stavros693000

i agree with every thing u said except for holy beating tyson 1992,tyson wasnt the same fighter he was in the80's but he was still fit to go hard for 12 rds,the only reason tyson lost to holy was cause he tired out,,,pre prison tyson was conventional but in good shape,he would have taken holy the distance and won a hard fought UD...IMO

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I gotta disagree with you on this. Tyson didn't lose to Holyfield because he got tired. He lost because he got hit with every punch in the book for 10+ rounds. He wasn't tired at the end, he was beaten up and battered. Tyson landed some big shots in the 1st round and was always dangerous, but Holyfield assumed tactical command of the fight in Round 2 and never let go of it.
Holyfield would beat Tyson in 1992, 1997, 2007, 2027.......

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

There's a big difference.

Ali was just peaking when he was exiled from boxing. He was getting more and more dominant with each fight.
Tyson, on the other hand, was already on the downside when he was sent away. His skills were already eroding, his dedication to training was already non-existent.

Ali paid a far bigger price. If he continued fighting from '67-'70, he would've beaten everyone in his path. A young, mobile Ali doesn't lose to Frazier in the first fight.
Tyson would've lost fights during his 3 years. His inevitable downfall was simply delayed by three years because of the prison stint.

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Excellent point.. I believe Tyson was on his way to being stomped by Holyfield in 91, had that fight taken place . . I agree with you , Tyson was effective early on because he was fighting 4 to 5 fights a year. once he started fighting 1 maybe 2 fights a year he lost his edge. he had already declined like you stated before the jail stint ! Good Post O0 CC #15.. enjoy reading you post mate!

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by stavros693000

i agree with every thing u said except for holy beating tyson 1992,tyson wasnt the same fighter he was in the80's but he was still fit to go hard for 12 rds,the only reason tyson lost to holy was cause he tired out,,,pre prison tyson was conventional but in good shape,he would have taken holy the distance and won a hard fought UD...IMO

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I gotta disagree with you on this. Tyson didn't lose to Holyfield because he got tired. He lost because he got hit with every punch in the book for 10+ rounds. He wasn't tired at the end, he was beaten up and battered. Tyson landed some big shots in the 1st round and was always dangerous, but Holyfield assumed tactical command of the fight in Round 2 and never let go of it.
Holyfield would beat Tyson in 1992, 1997, 2007, 2027.......

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Brilliant post mate ! I think I love you ! ;D

glad im not only one who thinks holy would of beat tyson in early 90s 8)

Ali's legacy is still cemented as great, whereas Tysons is more shady, so in terms of who it would have been more beneficial too, i say Tyson.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

There's a big difference.

Ali was just peaking when he was exiled from boxing. He was getting more and more dominant with each fight.
Tyson, on the other hand, was already on the downside when he was sent away. His skills were already eroding, his dedication to training was already non-existent.

Ali paid a far bigger price. If he continued fighting from '67-'70, he would've beaten everyone in his path. A young, mobile Ali doesn't lose to Frazier in the first fight.
Tyson would've lost fights during his 3 years. His inevitable downfall was simply delayed by three years because of the prison stint.

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That about sums it up... O0

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Originally Posted by Poom

Ali's legacy is still cemented as great, whereas Tysons is more shady, so in terms of who it would have been more beneficial too, i say Tyson.

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Very good way of looking at it and i agree!

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

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Originally Posted by Poom

Ali's legacy is still cemented as great, whereas Tysons is more shady, so in terms of who it would have been more beneficial too, i say Tyson.

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Very good way of looking at it and i agree!

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true. 3 years was a big big difference
he wont be hated and mocked like he is now
if they havent taken away those years
alright its tysons fault. but those years were big

I dont think Mikes legacy is affected by anything, the fact we are talking about him in the same breath as Ali is proof.

There is a thread now about Marcianos record, well Mike as champion has a better resume than Marcianos, Mike only had to beat 1 former light heavy in Spinks to Rockys Charles and Moore but at least he didnt get out the first.

Mike wasnt on the slide as in loosing speed and power it was just neglecting all the things he was taught in training with Rooney.

I think if Mike had been forced to leave America for 3 years rather than prison he would have had a better chance of regaining his ferocity, he could have taken that time to just chill away from leaches then on his own terms made any come back, he was basicaly pushed to fight, rather than having the burning desuire he once did.

Ali wanted to prove he could still compete, Mike just wanted to be able to buy cars and houses, he still does

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by stavros693000

i agree with every thing u said except for holy beating tyson 1992,tyson wasnt the same fighter he was in the80's but he was still fit to go hard for 12 rds,the only reason tyson lost to holy was cause he tired out,,,pre prison tyson was conventional but in good shape,he would have taken holy the distance and won a hard fought UD...IMO

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I gotta disagree with you on this. Tyson didn't lose to Holyfield because he got tired. He lost because he got hit with every punch in the book for 10+ rounds. He wasn't tired at the end, he was beaten up and battered. Tyson landed some big shots in the 1st round and was always dangerous, but Holyfield assumed tactical command of the fight in Round 2 and never let go of it.
Holyfield would beat Tyson in 1992, 1997, 2007, 2027.......

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i disagree and agree with the guy above. Tyson was on the score cards winning the fight untill the 6th round when holy started to take over and did hit him with everything but be honest he never really hurt tyson untill the 10th and when you say beat up? look at tyson's face at the end other than a tiny cut his face was'nt beat up at all if he had took everypunch in the book his face would of been swolllen, none of that really. Any one with any boxing knowledge, and i aint saying you aint got none but they would know Tyson's conditioning was a huge factor. Tyson was Tired to the point where he was outgunned. His tiredness was more a factor than holyfield throwing everypunch in the book. 10+ rounds of a beating you obviously watched a different fight it was close up to end of round 6 - 7 . the Mike Tyson of 1996 took Holyfield 11 rounds so the Tyson of 92 would of at the very least of gone the extra round and took it to a decision win or lose he was far far fitter and the 2 ruddock fights, more the 2nd are an example of his heart and stamina back then.

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Originally Posted by tubbc

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by stavros693000

i agree with every thing u said except for holy beating tyson 1992,tyson wasnt the same fighter he was in the80's but he was still fit to go hard for 12 rds,the only reason tyson lost to holy was cause he tired out,,,pre prison tyson was conventional but in good shape,he would have taken holy the distance and won a hard fought UD...IMO

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I gotta disagree with you on this. Tyson didn't lose to Holyfield because he got tired. He lost because he got hit with every punch in the book for 10+ rounds. He wasn't tired at the end, he was beaten up and battered. Tyson landed some big shots in the 1st round and was always dangerous, but Holyfield assumed tactical command of the fight in Round 2 and never let go of it.
Holyfield would beat Tyson in 1992, 1997, 2007, 2027.......

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i disagree and agree with the guy above. Tyson was on the score cards winning the fight untill the 6th round when holy started to take over and did hit him with everything but be honest he never really hurt tyson untill the 10th and when you say beat up? look at tyson's face at the end other than a tiny cut his face was'nt beat up at all if he had took everypunch in the book his face would of been swolllen, none of that really. Any one with any boxing knowledge, and i aint saying you aint got none but they would know Tyson's conditioning was a huge factor. Tyson was Tired to the point where he was outgunned. His tiredness was more a factor than holyfield throwing everypunch in the book. 10+ rounds of a beating you obviously watched a different fight it was close up to end of round 6 - 7 . the Mike Tyson of 1996 took Holyfield 11 rounds so the Tyson of 92 would of at the very least of gone the extra round and took it to a decision win or lose he was far far fitter and the 2 ruddock fights, more the 2nd are an example of his heart and stamina back then.

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If I remember correctly, Tyson's face was purple and full of mouses and welts at the end of that fight. He had taken a beating.
I don't remember what the scorecards were, but considering how suspect judging can be, I use my own eyes. Holyfield established by the 2nd round that he could take Tyson's punches, stand his ground, and land effective punches of his own. He was winning the fight at every point after round 2. Tyson was still fighting well up until the very end, but he was losing.
And to be honest, I think the "Tyson would've been better in '92" argument is rather fruitless, because that's completely ignoring the fact that Holyfield was better in '92 as well. Tyson fought a Holyfield in '96 who had already been in 3 wars with Bowe, had lost to Moorer, etc. As I said before, Holyfield beats Tyson in '92, '97, '07, '27, whatever.

Holyfield was more likely to brawl back then not box and Mike was still throwing some sort of combinations and hadnt had 4 years out