How great was Marciano's 49-0 Record anyway?

How great was Rocky's record??
Is it really the holy grail of heavyweight boxing?
The guys he fought in his 49 fights had over 500 combined losses!
more than 10 losses/fighter!
They had a win /fight record of barely 70% those stiffs lost 3 out of 10!
Most old time fighters were part timers,working day jobs as labourers and barbers.Not true conditioned dedicated athletes.
Does his old old record hold any relevance to todays fighters and records?
What do you think?

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Originally Posted by landmine950

How great was Rocky's record??
Is it really the holy grail of heavyweight boxing?
The guys he fought in his 49 fights had over 500 combined losses!
more than 10 losses/fighter!
They had a win /fight record of barely 70% those stiffs lost 3 out of 10!
Most old time fighters were part timers,working day jobs as labourers and barbers.Not true conditioned dedicated athletes.
Does his old old record hold any relevance to todays fighters and records?
What do you think?

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I think you pretty much described ALL the fighters from that time.
You know one thing I point out a lot is that back them there wasn't ANY emphasis on an undefeated record, if you were undefeated all it ment is either you didn't fight often or you haven't fought tough opposition. But once Marciano kept KO'ing his opponents people started seeing otherwise....
Back then it wasn't about your record, or the outcome of your last fight, or how many fights you won out of 10 it was about what you did in the present fight.
Also we are talking about WAAAAYYYYY TOOOO MANY what abouts.
Meaning, What about the mob? What about rules? What about refs? etc. etc. etc.
Today people put sooooo much emphasis on a '0' that it just makes me chuckle.....
For the most part I like to think that Marcianos record is valid and as credible as any other record.

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

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What about Larry Holmes quote? Marciano wouldn't be good enough to carry my jockstrap?!
Disrespectful?
Maybe Larry Holmes is an IDIOT? 20 title defenses!

Let's not forget that in Marciano's 49 fights he only fought 10 guys who even weighed 200 lbs!! and only 3 out of 49 were over 220!!
of the 10 over 200 pounders 3 of them had LOSING records!
Valuev hasn't fought one guy under 200! in 49 fights!
Theres lots of guys he fought at 250,260 even 300lbs!
There isnt a guy in the top 25 under 200lbs today.


Tale Of Nicolai Rocky
The Tape Valuev Marciano
Height 7-3 1/2 5-10¼
Weight 365 184
Reach 86 68
Chest/Norm. 52 39
Chest/Exp. 55 42
Waist 48 32
Biceps 18 14
Neck 19 16¾
Wrist 9 7½
Calf 18 14¾
Ankle 13 10
Thigh 29 22
Fist 14 1/2 11½
Forearm 15 12

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

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What about Larry Holmes quote? Marciano wouldn't be good enough to carry my jockstrap?!
Disrespectful?
Maybe Larry Holmes is an IDIOT? 20 title defenses!

Let's not forget that in Marciano's 49 fights he only fought 10 guys who even weighed 200 lbs!! and only 3 out of 49 were over 220!!
of the 10 over 200 pounders 3 of them had LOSING records!
Valuev hasn't fought one guy under 200! in 49 fights!
Theres lots of guys he fought at 250,260 even 300lbs!
There isnt a guy in the top 25 under 200lbs today.


Tale Of Nicolai Rocky
The Tape Valuev Marciano
Height 7-3 1/2 5-10¼
Weight 365 184
Reach 86 68
Chest/Norm. 52 39
Chest/Exp. 55 42
Waist 48 32
Biceps 18 14
Neck 19 16¾
Wrist 9 7½
Calf 18 14¾
Ankle 13 10
Thigh 29 22
Fist 14 1/2 11½
Forearm 15 12

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truth is ...there isnt a guy over 200 lbs in the top 25 ;D ! think about it the heavyweights today suck.. Weight means shit. Todays' HW div skills are lacking on a massive scale..today its snuff queen vs snuff queen.. a real shame todays heavyweights ! ;)

Everyone looks back at that record, picks it to pieces and says he fought bums. They werent considered bums back then, times were different back then to now. It wasnt all about protecting a record, it was about fighting when ever and who ever you could fight win or lose. I say give the man respect, he fought everyone on offer...hes a legend and hes record deserves respect and valuev doesnt deserve respect coz if he makes 49-0 it wont be the same. He hasnt fought everyone on offer, hes fought every BUM and NOBODY on offer and is just trying to protect his 0.

He did his job as champion...He beat who was put in front of him...It was a weak era in HW boxing this much is true but thats not his fault.....If he fought in the glory years of the 70's do I think he would of had the same record..HELL NO!!!!...but like I said he fought who was there...He was a fine champion to be respected...he always took care of business....I respect him the most because he knew when it was time to walk away and never came back...Something that is hard for a fighter to do especially one who had his record

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

---

What about Larry Holmes quote? Marciano wouldn't be good enough to carry my jockstrap?!
Disrespectful?
Maybe Larry Holmes is an IDIOT? 20 title defenses!

Let's not forget that in Marciano's 49 fights he only fought 10 guys who even weighed 200 lbs!! and only 3 out of 49 were over 220!!
of the 10 over 200 pounders 3 of them had LOSING records!
Valuev hasn't fought one guy under 200! in 49 fights!
Theres lots of guys he fought at 250,260 even 300lbs!
There isnt a guy in the top 25 under 200lbs today.


Tale Of Nicolai Rocky
The Tape Valuev Marciano
Height 7-3 1/2 5-10¼
Weight 365 184
Reach 86 68
Chest/Norm. 52 39
Chest/Exp. 55 42
Waist 48 32
Biceps 18 14
Neck 19 16¾
Wrist 9 7½
Calf 18 14¾
Ankle 13 10
Thigh 29 22
Fist 14 1/2 11½
Forearm 15 12

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Yes but Valuev hasnt fought one good fighter let alone greats. Marciano faught plenty of greats even if they was past there best- Joe Louis, Jersey Joe, Moore, Charles. Marciano fought in a small era of heavyweights, not necesarily a bad thing on his record people where just smaller back then in the heavies, and he was the smallest of the lot and still knocked them all the fuck out, speaks volumes imo. And YES what Homles said was disrespectful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

---

What about Larry Holmes quote? Marciano wouldn't be good enough to carry my jockstrap?!
Disrespectful?
Maybe Larry Holmes is an IDIOT? 20 title defenses!

Let's not forget that in Marciano's 49 fights he only fought 10 guys who even weighed 200 lbs!! and only 3 out of 49 were over 220!!
of the 10 over 200 pounders 3 of them had LOSING records!
Valuev hasn't fought one guy under 200! in 49 fights!
Theres lots of guys he fought at 250,260 even 300lbs!
There isnt a guy in the top 25 under 200lbs today.


Tale Of Nicolai Rocky
The Tape Valuev Marciano
Height 7-3 1/2 5-10¼
Weight 365 184
Reach 86 68
Chest/Norm. 52 39
Chest/Exp. 55 42
Waist 48 32
Biceps 18 14
Neck 19 16¾
Wrist 9 7½
Calf 18 14¾
Ankle 13 10
Thigh 29 22
Fist 14 1/2 11½
Forearm 15 12

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Yes but Valuev hasnt fought one good fighter let alone greats. Marciano faught plenty of greats even if they was past there best- Joe Louis, Jersey Joe, Moore, Charles. Marciano fought in a small era of heavyweights, not necesarily a bad thing on his record people where just smaller back then in the heavies, and he was the smallest of the lot and still knocked them all the F*** out, speaks volumes imo. And YES what Homles said was disrespectful.

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Yea Larry was being a bit fesicious in his remark... IMO a Prime Larry Holmes beats a Prime Marciano 10x out of 10.. I dont believe the results of the computer fight of Marciano vs Ali... Ali would have coasted to a UD victory.. It was just a different era back in Marcianos time not to be compared to anyother

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

---

What about Larry Holmes quote? Marciano wouldn't be good enough to carry my jockstrap?!
Disrespectful?
Maybe Larry Holmes is an IDIOT? 20 title defenses!

Let's not forget that in Marciano's 49 fights he only fought 10 guys who even weighed 200 lbs!! and only 3 out of 49 were over 220!!
of the 10 over 200 pounders 3 of them had LOSING records!
Valuev hasn't fought one guy under 200! in 49 fights!
Theres lots of guys he fought at 250,260 even 300lbs!
There isnt a guy in the top 25 under 200lbs today.


Tale Of Nicolai Rocky
The Tape Valuev Marciano
Height 7-3 1/2 5-10¼
Weight 365 184
Reach 86 68
Chest/Norm. 52 39
Chest/Exp. 55 42
Waist 48 32
Biceps 18 14
Neck 19 16¾
Wrist 9 7½
Calf 18 14¾
Ankle 13 10
Thigh 29 22
Fist 14 1/2 11½
Forearm 15 12

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Yes but Valuev hasnt fought one good fighter let alone greats. Marciano faught plenty of greats even if they was past there best- Joe Louis, Jersey Joe, Moore, Charles. Marciano fought in a small era of heavyweights, not necesarily a bad thing on his record people where just smaller back then in the heavies, and he was the smallest of the lot and still knocked them all the F*** out, speaks volumes imo. And YES what Homles said was disrespectful.

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Yea Larry was being a bit fesicious in his remark... IMO a Prime Larry Holmes beats a Prime Marciano 10x out of 10.. I dont believe the results of the computer fight of Marciano vs Ali... Ali would have coasted to a UD victory.. It was just a different era back in Marcianos time not to be compared to anyother

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Larry Holmes benifited from the use of modern training methods however, Marciano did not have this luxury. It is well known that Marciano was one of the hardest training boxers of all time, this could account for why he always came into the fight at such a low weight. Imigine a 220+ Marciano with modern training methods today, jesus!

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

---

What about Larry Holmes quote? Marciano wouldn't be good enough to carry my jockstrap?!
Disrespectful?
Maybe Larry Holmes is an IDIOT? 20 title defenses!

Let's not forget that in Marciano's 49 fights he only fought 10 guys who even weighed 200 lbs!! and only 3 out of 49 were over 220!!
of the 10 over 200 pounders 3 of them had LOSING records!
Valuev hasn't fought one guy under 200! in 49 fights!
Theres lots of guys he fought at 250,260 even 300lbs!
There isnt a guy in the top 25 under 200lbs today.


Tale Of Nicolai Rocky
The Tape Valuev Marciano
Height 7-3 1/2 5-10¼
Weight 365 184
Reach 86 68
Chest/Norm. 52 39
Chest/Exp. 55 42
Waist 48 32
Biceps 18 14
Neck 19 16¾
Wrist 9 7½
Calf 18 14¾
Ankle 13 10
Thigh 29 22
Fist 14 1/2 11½
Forearm 15 12

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Yes but Valuev hasnt fought one good fighter let alone greats. Marciano faught plenty of greats even if they was past there best- Joe Louis, Jersey Joe, Moore, Charles. Marciano fought in a small era of heavyweights, not necesarily a bad thing on his record people where just smaller back then in the heavies, and he was the smallest of the lot and still knocked them all the F*** out, speaks volumes imo. And YES what Homles said was disrespectful.

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Yea Larry was being a bit fesicious in his remark... IMO a Prime Larry Holmes beats a Prime Marciano 10x out of 10.. I dont believe the results of the computer fight of Marciano vs Ali... Ali would have coasted to a UD victory.. It was just a different era back in Marcianos time not to be compared to anyother

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Larry Holmes benifited from the use of modern training methods however, Marciano did not have this luxury. It is well known that Marciano was one of the hardest training boxers of all time, this could account for why he always came into the fight at such a low weight. Imigine a 220+ Marciano with modern training methods today, jesus!

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He would liquify insides and mash skulls...

Marciano fought during a time when fixed fights were prevalent and mob influence was strong. I have read in a few books claims that Archie Moore was paid a lot to throw the fight against him although on tape it looks like he was KTFO by Rocky. I'd say it was a very respectable record but tainted by the corruption of his time.

Corruption has ALWAYS been a part of boxing!

But the key is Rocky beat: Charles, Moore, LaStarza, Walcott, Louis.....he deserves credit for fighting and beating the BEST HIS DIVISION HAD TO OFFER


Valuev on the other hand has yet to fight and legitimately beat a top 20 heavyweight much less an all-time great!!!

"The reason why I win my fights, is because I am a spartan." - Rocky Marciano

dont rate Maciano as a great just a good/best fighter of his era also looking deep into the guys records after he beat them dosnt hold much credit on how good they where in the first place most of them went on to lose everything....

his record is full of aging fighters and guys with a shitload of losses...

but respect to him he retired undefeated and beat everyone they put infront of him.

Think Daxx summed it up best ;)

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Imigine a 220+ Marciano with modern training methods today, jesus!

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You mean modern pharmacists

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Can the IDIOT who voted him just worth Valuev's time please step forward. That is fooking ridiculous and disrepectful.

---

What about Larry Holmes quote? Marciano wouldn't be good enough to carry my jockstrap?!
Disrespectful?
Maybe Larry Holmes is an IDIOT? 20 title defenses!

Let's not forget that in Marciano's 49 fights he only fought 10 guys who even weighed 200 lbs!! and only 3 out of 49 were over 220!!
of the 10 over 200 pounders 3 of them had LOSING records!
Valuev hasn't fought one guy under 200! in 49 fights!
Theres lots of guys he fought at 250,260 even 300lbs!
There isnt a guy in the top 25 under 200lbs today.


Tale Of Nicolai Rocky
The Tape Valuev Marciano
Height 7-3 1/2 5-10¼
Weight 365 184
Reach 86 68
Chest/Norm. 52 39
Chest/Exp. 55 42
Waist 48 32
Biceps 18 14
Neck 19 16¾
Wrist 9 7½
Calf 18 14¾
Ankle 13 10
Thigh 29 22
Fist 14 1/2 11½
Forearm 15 12

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Yes but Valuev hasnt fought one good fighter let alone greats. Marciano faught plenty of greats even if they was past there best- Joe Louis, Jersey Joe, Moore, Charles. Marciano fought in a small era of heavyweights, not necesarily a bad thing on his record people where just smaller back then in the heavies, and he was the smallest of the lot and still knocked them all the fuck out, speaks volumes imo. And YES what Homles said was disrespectful.

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I'd say take the record as it is. He fought big names who were past their prime, but that wasn't his fault. Past it versions of Louis, Waclott etc wud still have knocked fuck out of the current heavyweight division. He wasn't a great boxer but he definately had great power......which proved enough. Beat everyone there was in his era so he is rightly considered a great bcos we haven't been proved otherwise.

Rock fought fighters in decline, but who else was there.

He was great because he knew when to turn up the heat.

Look at Charles, where he suffered an awful tear of his nose, and then went on in the following round to knock him out before the fight could be stopped.

And against Walcott, getting floored and dominated in the most part of the fight, but coming back to win with his susie Q, easily the best single punch thrown in heavyweight ring history.

Also, i give him a lot of respect for retiring at the time he did and calling it a day, rather than coming back into the ring and suffering, like Louis, Ali and Tyson.

Plus marciano was the same weight as most of his opponents. Put Valuev up against all 300 pounders with skill and see how well he does. Valuev has outweighed all of his opponents. Marciano outweighed a few.

A bunch of honest and insightful comments. once again you guys have impressed me.

He had a slight problem with cuts and if he continued boxing i'd say he'd lose a few to cuts. You also have to keep in mind that in his first amateur fight he was in horrible shape but ended up becoming possibly the most fit heavyweight ever and an injury to his right wrist was supposed to make it impossible for him to be a successful boxer at any weight but he became the (or one of the for you non-believers) hardest hitting boxer in a division where he was constantly at a size disadvantage.