Printable View
A prime Mayweather VS a prime Robinson?
Would would win this at welterweight?
Floyd Mayweather: very fast plus superior defense. Also 5'8 which is faster than Ray Robinson who was 5'11 i.e. small is faster than bigger.
Ray Robinson: good footwork and a strong chin. Robinson at 147 had KO power in both hands and was a puncher as well.
Many would say that an all-time great would destroy Mayweather in 10 rounds,
I say split-decision for Mayweather :o or a draw :o.
What do you lot think?
you think mayweather would beat the greatest figher of all time? mayweather doesn't have the power to hurt him, robinsons jab would play hell with mayweather and grind him down enough to KO him in the later rounds, castillo caused mayweather call kinds of problems as did judah at the start, robinson, honestly right now mayweather doesn't deserve to be compared to SRRQuote:
Originally Posted by hardrock
SRR by late KO @ 147
Would be a hell of a fight, but I have always regarded SRR as the all-time P4P. A truely complete fighter. People always talk of getting to PBF's body to take away his speed and movement. SRR is one of the few with the speed, technique and chin to do it. Watching SRR's old training footage, can't help but notice the similarities with the training footage of PBF, esp the skipping!
Basically....before Taeth comes on ere and goes on about old times fighters and all that. This fight would have to either take place back in Rays day meaning PBF doesnt have the training advantages he does now, or putting SRR in todays game with better training methods etc. Either way SRR murders him imo, TKO 8th.
You guys are not giving Mayweather enough respect.
But the forum has spoken so fair enough.
Im lost for words
Why bro? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
PBF wins easy,,,,he can be even masturbating with one hand and fighting with the other
Do you stand while you masturbate ;D
I think that this would be an interesting and competitive fight. Floyd has the speed advantage, Robinson has the reach and power advantage. Both are intelligent fighters. I think it would a chess match, long periods of movement and feints, followed by furious combinations when an opening occurs. I would pick Robinson by late stoppage or UD, but I'm certain Floyd would win a few rounds.
I agree because alot of PBF's skill comes from a revolutionary technique which was tought from his dad. I still think PBF is a better athlete, but he too much smaller if they are fighting the same way to beat SRR. However we don't know how do Mayweather's chin is, but once again its impossible to state how good Mayweather would have been without the training advantages so we can only compare era to era because Mayweather pretty much uses old training techniques anyways, but without his technique he loses a close fight... He is too much faster for Robinson to take him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Well.... My jaw hit the floor when I read the title of thread so I know what you mean. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I'm just wondering when you older fighters became fans because a large part of you guys overexaggerating the skill of older fighters is psychologically because people tend to be very fixed in their mind set, and naturally are unlikely to change their opinions even if the facts are staring them in the face.
If we took both their styles then Mayweather would win.
Taeth what revolutionary techniques are you talking about Id like to hear tell me
Its not worth talking about anymore. The little ways of how his used his shoulder unlike anyone else.. The angles he uses. The different levels he fights with his hands at. His footwork comming in or out. His whole defensive style to a degree is an improved version of James Toney's, and Archie Moore's. His awareness in the ring... How easily he flows from defense to offense. I am not saying that he would for sure beat Robinson, but I haven't seen anything to make me believe otherwise from the 7-8 Robinson fights I've seen. Not because I don't think he's great, but Floyd is pure boxing breed with the best training, work ethic, and technique the sport has ever seen along with athletic gifts that rival any fighter except to a degree ROy JOnes Jr.
work ethic? surly that goes to hopkins? his training and shape he stayed in is unike any boxer i have ever seen, in thier prime yes, but hes done it and still doing it now at 42...Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Agreed. Floyd has it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
But Robinson is 6ft tall and reletively speaking, hits like a truck!
Um Mayweather works out by far harder than Hopkins... He sometimes goes 15-20 rounds with some of those rounds lasting 9 minutes with new sparring partners comming in. His sit up routine is insane, and nobody can stand in front of a bag and just hit it with one two's longer than he can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Its hard to say how hard Ray Robinson punched because their gloves back then had virtually no padding compared to nowadays, but its interesting he weighed in at about 145-150 pounds during a large portion of his middleweight career making me believe that his natural weight must be around there with training so that he wasn't weight wise much bigger than PBF who weighs roughly that much quite easily. Heck even Pacquaio weighed in for a super featherweight fight at 144, and Corrales used to weigh in at 148 at the same weight. Anyways Floyd uses his height disadvantage to his advantage because he gets so low that taller guys have a hard time hitting him, and he has such fast feet that nobody can catch him if he doesn't want to be caught. I would say Zab probably hit as hard as Robinson, and is faster and his punches didn't hurt Mayweather, granted he hit Floyd, but I think that Zab is significantly faster than Ray.
Sorry mate i know the point your trying to make. But to compare Zab in any possible way to the best fighter EVER period is a joke. I was watching a Robinson fight earlier on ESPN classic and let me tell you Ray has VERY fast hands, but put Robinson in todays game with all the advantages PBF has he would be even better, imagine that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I am not comparing Zab in anyway with Ray except in speed and power, and thats because Zab was a very special athlete in terms of boxing. I would never compare their skill, determination, chin, heart, etc. etc. because Zab loses miserably compared to Ray. I think it will be interesting to see if ODLH can hit Floyd with his jab because though much slower than Ray's ODLH had a harder jab than SRR, and its very accurate like SRR to an extent. I believe from what I've seen Floyd is nullify the jab against pretty much anyone, and he also has a damn good jab himself especially in his younger years... I have never seen anyone jab so effectively to the body.
How you see Leonard-Mayweather going at Welter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Taith tell me how do you think Mayweather would do against somebody who never won a world title Charley Burley Who had a simular style and could KO rated heavys your veiw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Are you kidding me? How is your treatment going? When do you checkout? First of all would the fight take place then or now ? If you put PBF back in SRR time there is no fight because boxing would not have let PBF's style to ascend to the top for a title. That style was not mainstream until one Cassius Clay came along. If the fight were today SRR would have access to present day training tecniques and boxing knowledge. This is quite a comical topic which is disrepectful to SRR and his time in boxing. SRR would batter PBF. Obviously this was submitted by someone that has no true appreciation for the paths paved for todays boxers and who has seen few footage of nostalgic bouts. But before you match PBF to SRR how about matching him to an opponent of merit in his own era? Not one of his foes qualifies as a legendery boxer that any of us will remember. The sole name is his next fight and ODLH is not prime time anymore either. The Subject should be who has a stronger following of nuthuggers PBF or Pac Man? Neither will have the resumes on their records when all is said and done to be considered greats. Pac Man atleast has used up fighters on his resume. The state of boxing is such that these so called great fighter are cleaning house beating washed up oldies and tin cans.
:coolclick: and welcome to the board mate, this place is fooking top notch! Anyway although you have a very extreme viewpoint i agree with you on many points especially the point about you would have to put PBF back in them days, or bring prime SRR into these days to find the better fighter. Obviously who is the greater fighter, is hands down SRR by 5000000 country miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
By MAJESTYQuote:
Are you kidding me? How is your treatment going? When do you checkout? First of all would the fight take place then or now ? If you put PBF back in SRR time there is no fight because boxing would not have let PBF's style to ascend to the top for a title. That style was not mainstream until one Cassius Clay came along. If the fight were today SRR would have access to present day training tecniques and boxing knowledge. This is quite a comical topic which is disrepectful to SRR and his time in boxing. SRR would batter PBF. Obviously this was submitted by someone that has no true appreciation for the paths paved for todays boxers and who has seen few footage of nostalgic bouts. But before you match PBF to SRR how about matching him to an opponent of merit in his own era? Not one of his foes qualifies as a legendery boxer that any of us will remember. The sole name is his next fight and ODLH is not prime time anymore either. The Subject should be who has a stronger following of fans PBF or Pac Man? Neither will have the resumes on their records when all is said and done to be considered greats. Pac Man atleast has used up fighters on his resume. The state of boxing is such that these so called great fighter are cleaning house beating washed up oldies and tin cans.
Let me tell you I posted this topic because:
1. It lets us analyse what will always be a fictional bout.
2. Have some fun doing number 1.
3. Maybe learn about boxing debate/trivia about the boxers/boxing
Lasty:
1. I have watched tones of ATG fighters.
2. I know the boxers then didn't have the nice luxury gyms and diet aids we have now.
3. If you want to be too realistic with EVERY post you will be boring.
4. We all know SRR was great so I don't think it's disrespectful to compare another fighter with SRR. SRR is not a God, so its not blasphemy to utter his name along side another man.
Majesty please keep your opinions to yourself if you want to diss me more. ::**
Also teath with you being up the new training methods, and us oldtimers not having a clue Id like to hear your veiws on Psychodinamics andProprioception Im all ears
I lean towards Mayweather because Leonard had some problems I think Mayweather could capatilize on, but I think Leonard beats Robinson hands down... He's faster, he can take Robinson's punch, and is IMO is as good jabbing on the outside as SRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
So you think it goes...Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
1)Mayweather
2)Leonard
3)SRR
??? ??? ???
At welterweight Ray Robinson was virtualy unbeatable...Most footage available of Ray is at middleweight. Long past Robinsons best days..At welterweight his speed was close to Floyds...Floyd is slightly faster...Slightly...Ray's reach is better and his power is easily better then Floyds...Ray would not allow Floyd to run...Ray always threw in combos ..Something Floyd is not used to...IMO Robinson by 8...Many will disagree but like Isaid it all depends on how many of Robinsons fights you have seen at welterweight...
Yup. By the time Ray was at MW, he had declined. He has slid a LOT by the Fullmer and Basilio fights and those get played a lot on Classic.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I've seen a few of his fights at welterweight, and he wasn't in the same speed class as Floyd... who was fast even at 118 pounds as an amateur.
Not at all I think Mayweather is the right fighter to beat Leonard, and Leonard is the right fighter to beat Robinson, but that its hard to say IMO who wins between Mayweather and Robinson at welterweight, though it being Robinson's natural weight I give him the benefit of the doubt. The reason I think Robinson would do better than Leonard against Mayweather is that he was busier fighter, and he didn't throw bullshit combinations that Mayweather would counter easily that Leonard threw all the time. I think Robinson was smarter than Leonard in the ring, and that along with his size might help against FLoyd. Its hard to say though how heavy Robinson would weigh in at welterweight, but he looked like a stick, and may very well have been not all that strong, but I believe that wasn't the case as he was able to get in there with middleweights and even a light heavyweight. The debate for me between Floyd and Robinson is can Robinson hurt Floyd if so Robinson could win potentially in the inside the 12 rounds, and if not I can't see him outboxing the quicker man.Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
In terms of athletic ability I believe thoguh its
1. Floyd
2. Leonard
3. Robinson
because athletes get better, and Floyd has the longest line of boxers before him
THe problem with Leonard is he wasn't trained as well it would seem as the other two, and in terms of boxing skill IMO it goes
1. Floyd
2. Robinson
3. Leonard
Because Floyd is the only one who truly has it all, but maybe not at welterweight. If he goes toe to toe with ODLH which I don't think he will, but if he does and wins I will believe he can fight on the inside against a bigger man who hits harder than either Robinson or Leonard no question. If your wondering what Ray Robinson doesn't have IMO its a great defense... its good, and the more I watch him the more I appreciate his footwork, and shoulder work to a degree, but he isn't on the same level as Whitaker or Mayweather, but more like Hopkins.
Some good points and fair enough. Personally i think Leonard was MUCH better at WW then anyone that PBF has fought. And id say he was a clearly better fighter then ODLH also. Robinson is one of the very few people if not the only one i see beating Leonard more often then not at WW. I would only put that closely tho, like 6 times to Robinson, 4 to Leonard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think because Robinson never faced anyone fast he would have had alot of troubles with Leonard's combinations... A fighter who has relied on speed to beat his opponents his whole career definitely has alot of trouble when that advantage is not there anymore... It took FLoyd a few rounds to figure out Zab, and I'm not sure Roy has still configured himself to being even in the same league in terms of speed as his opponents. The thing is, is that, I saw Robinson not able to adapt to beat Lamotta in their first fight while I've seen Mayweahter adapt in 1 round to beat an opponent before. WHen I say Mayweather is a better athlete however I am saying p4p for when he was at 130 where IMO he hit as hard as either of them, and he way faster than at 147, and he had alot more footwork. I believe that still at welterweight his reflexes and speed are still unparalleled, but to a much smaller degree, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel his defense would be unlike anything the other two have seen. The best defensive fighter Leonard fought IMO was Duran who was slower than him by alot, and still gave Leonard troubles getting in. I think that both Robinson and Leonard were more cautious on the outside than Mayweather, and couldn't pot shot as efficiently as he could so unless they or anyone could beat Mayweather on the inside like in Castillo I, and that was a combination of injury along with bruteness for Mayweather to be beaten.
CC,totally agreed.Excellent post.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
mine is a completely uneducated view to be honest...
SRR has the reach, power and size advantage...
Floyd has speed and defence...
as ive only recently got into boxing thoroughly ive only seen a handful of floyds n maybe a couple of SRR's fights!
i think before i could personally pick one here id need to see how floyd's chin is...
hes pretty untested in that respect and im failry sure SRR would catch him...i just cant say how much it would affect floyd until i see him caught flush more often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Thank you...CC back at ya