My virgin post....
Here's my take on Wladimir Klitschko's place in the current heavyweight division:
http://bettersports.blogspot.com/200...-champion.html
Shannon Briggs holding a belt. It HAS gotten ugly.
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My virgin post....
Here's my take on Wladimir Klitschko's place in the current heavyweight division:
http://bettersports.blogspot.com/200...-champion.html
Shannon Briggs holding a belt. It HAS gotten ugly.
hey, ncie post, i totaly agree, wlad is the man.
Ah, you never forget your first time.... ;D
Glad you liked it Ethan. As the pics attest, at least he's never dull. It helps to have Emmanuel Steward on your side, too. I'm waiting to see how long it takes conventional wisdom to catch up to the idea that he may have learned to cope with big punchers...
I love this thread title ;D
Welcome to the forum, Testudo
:coolclick: Welcome aboard. That was a good read.
Welcome to the forum. Im sure you'll be welll redcieved with good posts like that. All the guys and "girls" here (...wacko3205 wears a dress on tuesdays and thursdays) here are quite nice and respectful of others and their opinions. BUT, I however, am an assh0le, and think Wladi is probably the most over-hyped boxer in the history of the sport. Everyone seems so quick do dismiss his many short comings. His chin is more vulnerable than a crystal champagne glass filled with liquid nitrogen at a drunken hammer and anvil festival. He stays indoor during fall and winter lest an errant falling leaf or wispy snowflake should brush against his "chin" rendering him unconcious,shattering his career and the false hopes and vascuous dreams of Klitsch brown nosers like yourself. don't feel bad.....you've got lots of company here at Saddo!
P.S. hope this reply stirs 'ya up enough to make this place just a "bit" more interesting.
We need more people who can see things clearly.Welcome. :coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Testudo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Testudo
Haha, nice article man. Even nicer was your Snoop dogg reference in the title. Have a cool click
Welcome to the forum Testudo. Nice artice. CC
:welcomesign: - Nice first post buddy.
:welcomesign: :coolclick: nice first post, keep it up Testudo!
Honestly, I'm surprised I didn't get more of this here, right down to the 3rd grade reading level playground chatter. You mention Wlad's "many short comings", then name only 1. The others? But I do think you are right ... in 2003. HBO certainly did build him up even after he'd been shown up by Ross Purritty and without him ever being really tested. But things change. I'll be waiting to see Wlad knocked out again sometime soon -- 'cause you said so.Quote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
Good article...but I don't think Emanuel improved SH's ability to take a punch just his ability to try to avoid taking one
Liked the article and this quote especially
"If he makes it to a decision, then he wins it."
Hes nothing too amazing and at a time when the division was more competitive he might not have been number one but hes currently the best around and thats all anyone can really hope to be.
Anyway a good read and worthy of my first :coolclick: welcome to the forum.
Please refrain from disrespecting grade three. Those were the best 4 years of my life. I did not, however, learn the words vacuous, vulnerable or errant, nor about the loss of the ductility of glass at low temperature there but at the University of Alberta where I garnered a degree in Engineering (Bsc P. Eng.) and subsequent membership in the International Society of Petroleum Engineers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Testudo
I don't mean to be overly critical of any athlete, just to provide a sense of balance to what are, in my opinion, overly biased opinions.
If I may... I assume the article you presented was written by you?
You stated..
The Heavyweight Champion of the World used to be a public figure on par with the president. ..... who's the man?
I submit that it is Wladimir Klitschko
Are you saying that Wladimir Klitschko should be held in the same regard, respect and esteem as the leader of the greatest nation in the Free World? Really?
Nice how you took the crown held jointly by 4 belt holders and placed it on the head of one of them.
How easily you have dismissed the 3 other current belt holders none of whom Wlad has faced, never mind defeated.
Valuev who is undefeated, Briggs who has less KO losses and the same # of KO wins as Wlad against better opposition, and Maskaev who has shown real KO power (Wlad's weakness) against Rahman.
With regards to his other shortcomings:
1) Weak self confidence.
2) The chin obviously but the chin is a result of
3) Poor defense,...that is,he allows himself to be, or at least, can be, hit cleanly by sub-par fighters. Its not that he got KO'd its who he was KO'd by! Purity who was 24-13, Sanders ,who had never fought for, never mind held a major belt. And Brewster who had fought nobody. You said 2003. Peter was in late 2005, and the unskilled raw puncher landed massive punches at least 3 times. You said He doesn't need to be a great defensive fighter. With the ability to outlast the headhunters, he should be able to consolidate the belts and have a lasting reign. I disagree.
4) An unimpressive record. You said "He has been... gaining experience at a very high level" people like to criticize Valuev's record.But look at Wlads! Who's on it? He even takes 1/2 a step up and he gets whacked out!
Squeaked by Peter (again the defense issue). Toney went 24 rounds and NEVER GOT HIT with a legitimate legal blow by Peter! How did he gain the Title? He beat Byrd who weighed 213 lbs. Did you previously consider Byrd so great during his 4 year undefeated IBF reign?
5) Robotic Style. You mention his Athleticism. I don't see it. Yes he is well conditioned but he possesses none of the natural skill or ability of a Byrd or James Toney. He is very limited in what he can do,and can't adapt. In other words.."slick" or versatile he ain't.
6) Conditioning. (your quote)
I'm not saying he's not good or even that I don't like him. I like the style personally, It's logical for a big tall guy. But when I read things you say like
"he is among the best [size=22pt]ever
"[/size]
I really must respond. 1 out of 10 I'm certainly in the minority
He's a ways away from earning the title you have placed on him and an
even longer way from building a legacy. And with the state of the HW division he will have a hard time doing it.
It will require:
1)Unifying the titkes with decisive wins over the other belt holders.
2)Retiring the vets
3) A string of victories by Valuev to gain world wide interest, followed bya trilogy with the Giant ala Ali/frazier, Holyfield/Bowe may be his only hope of a lasting legacy of true "all time" greatness.
Hope you enjoy the response.
Or,if you prefer I could just leave all you Klitsch "bitches" to have a pat-on the back "your so right he's the greatest" sausage party.
landmine did they teach a course in bullshiting and misquoting at your oh so great university of alberta where you got your oh so fancy petroleum engineering degree. What's you having a degree in petroleum engineering have to do with anything? He clearly said that the klit is offensively one of the best ever, yet you choose to leave the offensively part out and make him look like some crazy klitschko nuthuger!
LOL!!Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
I put that part in 'cuz of the grade 3 comment.
I cut the quotes down to make the post a reasonable size.
Wlad as best ever ANYTHING is just as ........erroneous?
I, by the way, can bullshit in 3 dimensions.
That "Oh so fancy" part made you sound like Homer Simpson (whom i happen to like as a person).
It would be hard to single him out as a crazy Klitschko "Nuthugg@r" (lmao)
as there are so many of them on here!
LMAO! still laughing at the "nuthugg@r" part! (must be the Vodka!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
if you wouldve cut out that last sentence (the klitch bitch/sausage party line) this may have been one of the best posts ive ever read on this forum (and im a fan of klitchko to a moderate degree.......................... cc anyways
Jeah I don't know what's up with the fan part, I could have sworn I typed nuthuger, but I had to go back and change it, but jeah vodka is the shit, nothing better, and don't gimme none of that mixed with redbull shit either! Well one of these days I shall earn the right to cool click, but there for a moment I thought you was bein a prick for no reason, but ya shall receive a cc from me in about 2 months time when I will have 100 posts at the pace I'm going. I will take the homer part as a compliment as I am a huge fan of his!
To Frozen Solid
My wife agrees with you!
mind you she didn't like me calling the guy a "brown-noser" either.
Hey, we're all men,we can take it.
After all it's a boxing forum not a ballet discussion.
I just try and "needle" these guys a bit. Give 'em some inspiration!
Thanx for the response, opinion( i'll take it under advisement) and esp the cc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
NUTHUGG@R! STILL! lmao! gotta rememberthat one!
(like I'll remember anything tommorrow)
Just do what I did (and still do) post 100 sh1t post!
then you can CC (and sc) your brains out!
Here's a cc at ya for seein' the "spirit" of my posts!
P.S. I almost NEVER s.c.
I save 'em for those who have that rare combination of meanness and stupidity.
That's a pretty fockin good idea, I guess that's why you have your oh so fancy degree, and I don't, but hey I'm working on mine so I'll get there,lol.
1)I think I should start by asking how many of his 50 fights have you seen?Quote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
2)He wasn't ko'd by puritty or Brewster he ran out of gas.
3)He has fought MUCH better competition than Valuev.
4)He didn't squeek by Peter he won a UD!
5)The punches Peter landed ON THE BACK OF WLADS HEAD were far worse than the ones he landed on Toney.
6)He doesn't have a robotic style and you would know this if you had seen all of his fights.
7)Wladimir's opponents have a much higher win percentage than Briggs.WLadimir also beat McCline by KO while Briggs lost to him by UD!I could go on and on but that is a waste of time.
8)Wladimir is VERY skilled having won the gold medal in the Olympics and having gone 134 and 6 in the amateurs!He won by out boxing his opponents and for a guy of his size that is impressive!
I could go on but will leave it at that.Good day to you. :)
HMM where to start??
I'll just pick one at random.....say..........#2
1)I think I should start by asking how many of his 50 fights have you seen?
2)He wasn't ko'd by puritty or Brewster he ran out of gas.
3)He has fought MUCH better competition than Valuev.
4)He didn't squeek by Peter he won a UD!
5)The punches Peter landed ON THE BACK OF WLADS HEAD were far worse than the ones he landed on Toney.
6)He doesn't have a robotic style and you would know this if you had seen all of his fights.
7)Wladimir's opponents have a much higher win percentage than Briggs.WLadimir also beat McCline by KO while Briggs lost to him by UD!I could go on and on but that is a waste of time.
8)Wladimir is VERY skilled having won the gold medal in the Olympics and having gone 134 and 6 in the amateurs!He won by out boxing his opponents and for a guy of his size that is impressive!
I could go on but will leave it at that.Good day to you.
Wasn't Ko'd? huh??
lets see..
1998-12-05 : Sportpalast, Kiev, Ukraine : Wladimir Klitschko lost to Ross Puritty by TKO in round 11 of 12
In round 10 Klitschko went down and in round 11 he was knocked down again, which caused his trainer to jump into the ring and stop the fight.
Knocked down twice. Saved by the trainer before he got KO'd the F out and maybe hurt.. thats a TKO. period!
Here's a repost of some of the Lamont Brewster fight! It makes me laugh all over again!! Here's a few highlites!! LMAO!!
Boxing Times / Fight Breakdowns / 2004 /
--Brewster Drains Klitschko's Tank In Five--
By John Gregg
(April 10, 2004) Las Vegas, Nevada (Mandalay Bay Casino)--
Wladimir Klitschko is a robotic four-round heavyweight with no stamina and a bad chin. What could go wrong?
Los Angeles heavyweight Lamon Brewster rallied to upset Klitschko with two whip-like left hooks to the jaw and ultimately drop and stop the former Olympic star at the end of the fifth.
Brewster drove Klitschko into the ropes with two hammering hooks and referee Robert Byrd issued a standing 8-count to the Ukrainian heavyweight. Just before the bell, Brewster clipped his opponent with another volley of shots and Klitschko dropped face first to the canvas t
Byrd struggled to help the 246-pound Ph.D. off the deck and to his corner, as the European leviathan struggled to regain his senses and his balance. After looking into fallen heavyweight's eyes, the veteran official wisely waved off the remainder of the scheduled 12-round encounter.
Klitschko's tank was empty, his hopes and dreams dashed and Brewster was the new WBO heavyweight champ.
"I got the belt," Brewster said following the win. "It wasn't about chin, it was all about heart."
Coming off two knockout victories over lightly regarded Fabio Eduardo Moli and Danell Nicholson, following his brutal 2nd round knockout loss to Corrie Sanders in Hamburg, Germany 13 months ago, there were a number of questions about Klitschko's resolve.
Klitschko's best weapon remained his size and he took every opportunity to lean on Brewster whenever the fighters were in close quarters. This tactic eventually drew a warning from the referee Byrd in the third round. With 2:05 to go 3rd, Brewster feinted his right and then caught the flat-footed Klitschko with a leaping left jab/hook to the chin. The shot hurt Klitschko and his knees momentarily buckled from the blow. Brewster continued firing punches and Klitschko was compelled to clinch. The sudden fireworks brought cheers from the Vegas' fight fans. Klitschko regained his composure, as Brewster was unable to score against the huge target in front of him.
--End Of The Line--
Klitschko answered to the bell to open the fifth with noticeable swelling around the corner of his right eye. Klitschko returned to blasting away with mechanical right hands to the head early in the round. However, at the two-minute mark, Brewster bounced a sharp left hook of the big man's lanky torso. Klitschko instantaneously began breathing hard with an open mouth and gulping in air. Klitschko's gloves came down around his waist and his body seemed to function only on muscle memory. It was if a 16-wheeler had suffered a blowout.
Seconds later, Brewster scored with a hard left jab flush to the face. With 46-seconds remaining in the round, Brewster caught the retreating Klitschko with a stunning left hook to the head. With the crowd standing and screaming, Klitschko backpedaled but Brewster nailed him with another flashing left hook to the jaw. Klitschko careened backwards as Brewster connected with two more solid left hooks to the head and body. Klitschko offered no resistance but only could bow his head and cover.
The referee Byrd interceded and ruled that it was only the ropes that had kept Klitschko upright and began a standing eight-count with 39-seconds remaining in the round. When the one-sided action resumed Klitschko was a spent shell. He legs looked like stone and he offered little to no return fire, while Brewster leapt at him firing wild punches. Just before the bell, Brewster scored with a chopping right hand to the ear and another half push left hook to the head. Klitschko staggered back on his heels before bouncing off the ropes as Brewster charged into the worn out Ukrainian.
As the bell sounded to end the 5th, the referee attempted to grab the heavyweight around the waist but the boxer pitched forward face first to the canvas.
Klitschko managed to make it to his hands and knees but as he attempted to stand he lost his balance again before finally regaining his feet. Slack-jawed and out of air, Klitschko took one more halting step to his corner when the referee waved off the contest.
What could go wrong? Well, after five somewhat bizarre rounds, Wladimir Klitschko was one more Southern California Ph.D. who was looking for a career change.
The 8-to-1 underdog Lamon Brewster, who had dedicated the fight to the memory of his former handler Bill Slayton, was the new WBO heavyweight king.
And thats not a KO either i suppose? COME ON!
I won't even bother with the rest of your list. #2 was so out there.
OK here's some more for ya
#6 robotic style?
Here's a few opinions, mind you they are all just world class boxing writer and authorities, what would they know.
By John Gregg
(April 10, 2004) Las Vegas, Nevada (Mandalay Bay Casino)--
Wladimir Klitschko is a robotic four-round heavyweight with no
stamina and a bad chin. What could go wrong?
-------------------------------------------------------
--Klitschko Halts Brock In Seven--
By John Gregg
(November 11, 2006) New York, NY (Madison Square Garden)--
After several robotic rounds, Klitschko began to pick up the pace
----------------------------------------------
Anthony Evans
While the 6ft 7ins Goliath dominated every round and dropped the American
with ham-fisted rights in the second and third before knocking him cold with
a left hook in the sixth, some critics (including SecondsOut’s Wayne McCullough)
thought he looked somewhat robotic. Possessing all the fluidity of an Antarctic lake has long being a criticism of Wladimir and certainly there were times last night when giant
champion did appear a little metallic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
By MICHAEL KATZ
The New York Times
Wladimir, who at 26 is the younger of the brothers by five years,
and also the smaller one, is regarded by most boxing people as the better fighter
..and is perhaps the bigger puncher, but he is very robotic in his movements.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Marty "Keep Punching" Mulcahey, maxboxing.com
I sincerely hope this victory will encourage my fellow American press to
finally accept Wladimir as more than a robotic European boxer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron DiMichele, East Side Boxing.com
Wladimir Klitschko is an awesome fighting force with tremendous punching power,
but he's still just a little bit raw and a little bit robotic. This stand-up style can be
exploited with a varied, smothering attack which short-circuits the mechanical
technique and throws a wrench into the blueprinted fight plan.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa Scott, fightnews.com
McCline moves very well for a big guy, while Wladimer does not.
ENOUGH?
You've done more than that fella ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
Like I said have you seen the fight?At what time did Wladimir go down in the 11th round?I have to hear this one.He didn't go down in round 11!He wore himself out in that fight, not a 1 clean punch put him down!Once again did you see this fight?I won't even get into the other fights until you answer this one first.Quote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
As far as robotic style, I guess that would be a compliment because Robots are very efficient and precise at their task and Wladimir is exactly that, he never throws unnecesary punches and is very acurate. :)
Landmine: I actually did really enjoy your 2nd response (other than quoting me out of context in large bold type, which thankfully someone else called you out on almost immediately, so I guess it was pretty obvious).
I will say, and this may have been evident in the blog post itself, that I am only about 60/40 on this. I appreciate that you are 100% and as I said, I agree with you 100% in 2003. Things may have changed since then; I think they probably have. Would I be nervous holding a betting slip on Klitschko to make it to 12 rounds in a rematch against any of the guys who dropped him before ... or even a fat and faded David Tua for that matter? Hell, yes. But in the end he won that fight against Peter in 2005, which bears remembering and may have had some implications about the direction in which he is headed. We shall see. It will be fun to watch, at the very least.
As to whether he is a great natural athlete like Byrd or Toney, he is obviously far taller, bigger (at least by lean weight), and stronger than those guys. Those are athletic gifts as well and they matter a great deal in the heavyweight division. When you take everything into account, he's a pretty gifted fighter physically.
If he hasn't got true KO power, then tell Chris Byrd. I hear you already, he's not a true heavyweight. Well, he's been one of the top guys in the division for a while now. None of us are happy about it, that's just how it is. Also tell Ray Mercer, who may have been 40 when they fought, but is a skilled defensive fighter well-known for his chin. That fight was one of the most overwhelming beatings I've ever seen laid on anybody.
Speaking of which -- I realize I 'm out on a limb here, but I'll stand by my "one of the greatest offensive fighters ever" comment. Size, range, power (I say), skill, and accuracy. He's not George Foreman, but he ain't Jameel McCline either. He will land lots of good punches on anybody in the division and if you don't get him out of there before a decision that you will not win, then there's a pretty good chance he'll get you.
It's true I ignore the belts. They deserve to be ignored at this stage. I doubt you disagree, really. Shannon Briggs? Oleg Maskaev? I won't waste my breath. Wlad would destroy Valuev. The guy doesn't have the power to KO him--even if he hasn't improved a bit since 2005--and there is no comparison in terms of skill. And this from someone who thought Valuev was underrated for a long time before he (kind of) won a "major" belt.
Tell Mrs. Landmine not to worry about me! I'll be over next Thursday like always... hehe.
AGAIN....
I don't mean to be overly critical of any athlete, just to provide a sense of balance to what are, in my opinion, overly biased opinions.
SOMEONE, has to take an opposing view on klitschko, it wouldn't be very interesting here otherwise.
your last response was thoughtful and well balanced.
I like Klitschko,he's "my" style of a fighter and the only kind of fighter a 6'7" guy should be. The Lennox Lewis template has worked well for him and should continue to do so.
I just like to see balance. So much over the top pro Wlad here and every where in boxing circles demands some opposition.
Look at his record,who has he fought on there of note?
go down the list. what names do you know,is this the legacy of a greatest EVER
everett "bigfoot" martin twice
ross purity
Axel Shultz
Monte Barett
Byrd twice
botha
mercer
Mccline
Saunders
brewster
Williamson
Peter and lastly Calvin Brock
Byrd he totally Dominated thats to his credit,but a very small vs very big. but still 2 good respectable wins.
Other guys like McCline,Mercer,shultz are all dismissed as crap when other guys fight them. Valuev/McCline for eg. Rahman/mercer now (and yes i realise that there older now) but they are still good building blocks. and a W is a W
When you come to a decent guy you know
you say...damn..brewser,saunders ,purity while not world beaters would help to fortify his record into legitamacy you remember that HEY! these guys KO'd him! thats erases the other decent fights.
Down 3 times by Peter. whoooo that was close!
What about williamson? Klitscko DOWN in the 4th!
stopped in the 5th due to cut from a headbutt decision on points.
DUDE!! this is not a great record!!!!! Its not even good IMO
IF Valuev had this record people would say it is TOTAL SH1T!
Now,that all being said
Against Brock he DOMINATED!. a perfect textbook example of the kind of potential Wlad has. BUT to me. 2 good byrd fights and a great showing against Brock don't make him the BEST EVER at anything.
I wouldn't even use the term very good, yet.
IMO there are just as many question marks hanging around Wlad as there are around Valuev! and Valuev is (hopefully) going to erase some of them Saturday against McCline.
Each loss,esp a KO loss sets a fighter back,what? 10 wins?
Its like a game of snakes and ladders
It takes a long time to build a strong impressive winning record.
And an even longer period of good decisive immpressive wins to forge a legacy of greatness, Wlad is a LONG way away from having done that!
Lewis survived his equally devastating losses the only way it can be done. By immediate and Devestating revenge wins. So dominant that It allowed fans to erase the memory of the KO to a large degree.
That something Klitschko has not done.
I think Wlad's Future, his legacy and present standing are all like the man himself. Great possibilities, balancing precariously.
He's always one punch away from a 4th KO loss. A spectre that doesn't
haunt other great HW's like a black shadow every time they step into the ring.
There are MORE questions surrounding Valuev simply because he has not fought ANYONE dangerousQuote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
You poo-poo those 2 wins over Chris Byrd yet who the hell did Valuev fight last?
-A guy who hadn't fought in a year
-A guy with no punching power 31 wins 17 KO's
-A guy who had been previously KO'd by Wladimir Klitschko in 7 rounds
-A guy who lost decisions to Joe Mesi and Lance Whittaker
-A guy who is lazy in the ring
A guy named Monte Barrett and this guy not only stood in with your giant for 11 rounds but STAGGERED Valuev in the first round!!!!!
What does that tell you abolut Valuev?
1. He's got a record FULL of bums
2. He hasn't truly WON all his fights
3. He's fighting another bum with no power, in Jameel McCline
4. He's never fought a power puncher
5. He's had 2 fights in the US
6. He's had ONE HBO fight
7. He's not fought a "mandatory opponent" in the 3 fights since "winning" the WBA title
8. He rabbit punches
9. He has no power, 45 wins 33 KO's
10. 21 opponents out of his 45 fights have had less than 10 fights
You are who you beat....and that makes Valuev a big BUM
Lyle,Lyle,Lyle,,,,,,,
This post was suppose to be about Wlad! not Valuev!
and since I have started so many Valuev posts recently. and will do another tonight I think. I won't answer all the Valuev questions here out of respect for the origional poster.
I didn't (I don't think) Poo-Poo the Byrd wins..I said
Byrd he totally Dominated thats to his credit,but a very small vs very big. but still 2 good respectable wins.
You "Poo-Poo" Monte Barrett, thats one of the wins that Wlad is building his "LEGACY"on.
The same for McCline! "Poo-Poo" him against Valuev yet Took Wlad 10 rounds...If Valuev Ko's him in 5 will you admit that Valuev is twice as good?
I liked my Wlad post!
If you copy paste your list of crap to my next Valuev post I'll will take the time to personally rip it to shreds. I just don't want to do it here.
I think I have proven beyond any doubt in any thinking persons mind,that Wladimir Klitschko has done nothing to deserve the title of greatest ever anything except greatest ever over-hyped and,over rated HW of recent memory if not all time. He does however, have the opportunity and genuine potential in the future, by his accomplishments....to prove me wrong. But I doubt he will.
Nicolay Valuev is overhyped and overrated.....he's undefeated only because he has fought bums and he has fought on his home turf!
Valuev is SHIT and honestly I wouldn't mind fighting him....I wouldn't say that about any other champions or former champions....I wouldn't want to fight Byrd or hell even George Foreman to this day I wouldn't want to fight him.....but Valuev is as untalented and undeserving of his position as he is ugly.....and boy is he UGLY!
Ok OK! I'll start another Valuev post!!!
Just repost all of you Valuev Sh1t onto it and as usual I'll take the 20 or 30 seconds to rip your heart, hopes and dreams to shreads..
Sadly, when there are no legitimate champions there are no legitimate wins. We could crap on every record of every single contender or "champion" out there, because they are only fighting each other.
Your point about Wlad's record is well-taken, Landmine, though, again, I think you're missing the key qualifier -- that he's among the best ever on offense. The Brewster fight is a good example. You list that in the con column for him, which is obviously right, judging him as a complete fighter. On offense, he was spectacular in that fight til he got his block knocked off, even knocking Brewster down. And Brewster then held the 4th of the 3 "major" belts, so I guess that makes him a championship caliber fighter (again, none of us are happy about that, that's just how it is).
But I do acknowledge it's virtually impossible to build a track record as a greatest ever anything in today's heavyweight division. Nonetheless, I believe my eyes.
I know this is almost 2 years old, but I couldn't help myself. Dangit! The reference is to Slick Rick; Snoop merely remade his song.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
Welcome to the forum mate